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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> General Board >> 2nd Great Depression is here. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1308393225 Message started by Jasignature on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:33pm

Title: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:33pm

Wether you believe me or not.
Thanks to the Internet and not via the Television/Newspaper Medium.
I wish to say that the second GREAT DEPRESSION is officially here.
It will be here (globally) in effect for next 10 years and reach its peak in 3 years - level off for 4 years and wane the following 3 years till Economic recovery.

2011: Great Depression II
:(

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:39pm

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:33pm:

Do you have a link for this or is it just a rave?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Equitist on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:49pm

Contrary to officials and experts remaining in denial, there have been plenty of signs - so it could be here any day, today even...or it may take a while longer...

When it hits this time, it will probably take about 12-48 hours before every Western stockmarket, banking, financial and insurance institution suspends or shuts down its electronic transactions and/or physically posts security officers at its closed doors...

Then again, telecommunications and electronic transactions technology being as it is, it might even take as little as 2 hours for things to go from gangbuster-trading-in-denial to mega-crash...

In Oz, we are likely to wake to the news that it happened overnight...

What happens in the ensuing days, weeks, months and years will doubtless be ugly and gravely violent and depressing...

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Equitist on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 9:02pm

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2760414.html

16 June 2011

Great Recession, Great Depression: a sign of things to come

85 Comments

Ted Lapkin

Is Barack Obama being haunted by the ghost of Great Depression past?

Is the economic malaise currently plaguing the United States taking on an uncanny resemblance to the lost decade of the 1930s?

In May 1939, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt's senior economic advisor made a pilgrimage to Capitol Hill where he raised the white flag of surrender. Secretary of the treasury Henry Morgenthau appeared before the Ways and Means Committee of the US Congress to confess defeat:

We are spending more money than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot.

The source of Morgenthau's lament was found in the US unemployment rate. Halfway through FDR's second term, official statistics showed the jobless rate hovering stubbornly in the mid-teens. In his testimony to Congress, president Roosevelt's senior economic advisor was essentially admitting that the entire Keynesian construct of the New Deal was a failure.

Of course, those who continue to defend the validity of Keynesian economics point to WWII as definitive proof that their worldview is correct. They argue it was massive wartime deficit spending on tanks, planes and ammunition that stimulated the economy out of its depressed state. And with US unemployment falling to a negligible 4.2 per cent by 1942, at first glance this argument appears to have some merit.

But when one recalls the 12 million men who were conscripted during that time into the armed forces, the pro-Roosevelt narrative is found wanting. With so many healthy males of prime working age being forcibly taken out of the labour force, it's no wonder that unemployment disappeared. The phenomenon of Rosie the Riveter arose from GI Joe being sent to fight in Europe and the Pacific, not from the policies of John Maynard Keynes.

We see a similar track record of failure on the Keynesian policies of Barak Obama. Almost immediately after his entry into office, president Obama and his Democrat Congressional allies enacted a $787 stimulus bill that was supposed to keep unemployment below 8 per cent. President Obama promised that mid-year 2010 would become the US economy's "recovery summer".

But as of June 2011, unemployment numbers have increased by a whopping 1.9 million Americans since Barack Obama signed his economic stimulus package into law. And over the same 28-month period, the Democrats have almost tripled the federal government deficit. With the treasury borrowing 41 cents out of every dollar it spends, the spectre of a US sovereign debt crisis impedes the prospect of economic recovery.

Of course Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd would have us think that the Australian version of Keynesian stimulatory economics worked an absolute charm. Wayne Swan likes to portray himself as a veritable Macaulayan Horatius at the bridge, single-handedly holding off the oncoming hordes of economic depression.

But our current economic resilience owes much more to the $20-billion surplus bequeathed to Kevin Rudd by the departing Coalition team of Howard and Costello. By contrast, the failure of the Obama stimulus program proves that you can't borrow your way to prosperity if you're already eye-deep in debt.

So what do all these grim economic tidings mean for Barack Obama's prospects for re-election? Nothing good. But it is instructive to look back from our current Great Recession to the Great Depression of the 1930s for indications of events to come.

By 1938, the bloom had well and truly come off the Roosevelt political rose. Despite the vast alphabet soup of New Deal programs, America's economy continued to stagnate. The numbers of families reduced to penury by sustained joblessness remained legion. And at that year's mid-term elections, FDR and the Democrats paid the price of failure at the ballot box.

The November 1938 elections saw the Republicans pick up 72 seats in the House of Representatives and an additional six seats in the senate. While the science of opinion polling was still in its infancy, there were indications that FDR was headed for defeat in 1940 as he sought to achieve something unprecedented in US history - a third presidential term.

Professor David Kennedy of Stanford University holds that it was only the coming of WWII that saved Roosevelt from electoral defeat. The conflict in Europe - and in particular the fall of France in June 1940 - allowed FDR to position himself as a strong national security president. By contrast, the Republicans were tainted by the isolationism espoused by some of their leading contenders for the White House during that election year.

The flush of political triumph generated by the raid on Osama bin Laden has already faded. The bump in the polls that the president enjoyed has long since evaporated, with Obama sinking back to an election-losing 48 per cent approval rating that has plagued him over the past 18 months.

If the Republicans can field a good candidate in 2012, Barack Obama's second term is in serious jeopardy. Any incumbent president who runs for re-election in a stagnant economy plagued by high unemployment has an extremely tough row to hoe.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Equitist on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 9:03pm

/contd.

The only thing that's certain at this stage is that it'll be interesting to watch.

Ted Lapkin is a Research Fellow at the Institute for Public Affairs. He worked as a ministerial advisor to the federal Coalition and as communications director to a senior member of the Republican leadership in the US Congress.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 2:58am

I love watching the Great Depression (1) docos and how Teddy hired Kennedy to fix the economy after he originally helped to ruin it.
How a lot of those famous photos of people in poverty were all set up and staged by actors.
How National Parks were America's greatest idea during that period.

I don't have any links Bobby - but you know me, I read between the lines and I just look upon Humanity as a whole like looking into the eyes of a Psyche patient.

So who knows? Maybe Mugabe will laugh at Obama (and the UK) - the African American 'Labourer' who thinks he's "all that (thats black)" more than Khoffi Annan. Maybe it won't be a Great Depression?
...maybe it will be a
GREAT INFLATION ...like Gordon Gekko said "Greed is Good" and a lot of people might find it hard to keep up with the Joneses. ;)

Either way - a lot of things are inflating and a lot of things are crashing ...just gonna see before the end of this year which way it will keep going. Don't you just love 'extreme' economy from a nation thats still stuck practising Imperial like a 4th World Mathematical Nation. ::) No wonder they have economic crises.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by boogieman on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 8:37am

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:33pm:

Get a grip buddy. Even Nostradamus couldn't predict what would happen tomorrow and neither can you. You go ahead and have your Great Depression all by yourself while the rest of us get on with life, OK?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 10:50am

I find it interesting when we are told to save!!!! not that long ago we were being told to spend.. to save the world as a whole..

but anyway we are told to save our pennies....

yet most countries are in debt up to their eyeballs including ourselves..

and the reason for the shakes now is because they cant meet their repayments...and it doesnt look as if they will be able to.

we are so lucky to have the minerals in our country. yet the greens are trying to put the lid on that.

to do what we are never told.

but its part of their mantra and we are expected to suck it up.laughable

I dont see the arabs shutting down the oil fields.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 11:53am

cods wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 10:50am:

I find it interesting when we are told to save!!!! not that long ago we were being told to spend.. to save the world as a whole..

but anyway we are told to save our pennies....

1) yet most countries are in debt up to their eyeballs including ourselves..

and the reason for the shakes now is because they cant meet their repayments...and it doesnt look as if they will be able to.

we are so lucky to have the minerals in our country. yet the greens are trying to put the lid on that.

to do what we are never told.

but its part of their mantra and we are expected to suck it up.laughable

2) I dont see the arabs shutting down the oil fields.

1) That is not correct, at least not at the moment, as far as OZ is concerned.
Whilst we could be in a better position, such as Norway is, we are in a reasonable position, compared to most other countries, in terms of our Debt to GDP ratio!

2) Believe it or not, that will happen! At least, it will effectively happen, as far as much of the rest of the world is concerned, when their production Declines to the point, where the Oil Producing countries see their own future supplies coming under threat.

When? I would suspect, within 10-20 years?

Above is a chart of US Production, Consumption & Imports and as can be seen the gap between Consumption & Production has been steadily growing for over 50 years, except for a short period, arising from the Arab Oil Embargo, during the 1970's and the current GFC.

But the US, like many other nations, who have found themselves in the similar position of Consumption exceeding Demand (including Australia), have had the luxury of having other Oil Producing nations to fall back on, such as the OPEC countries.

However, OPEC & Russia do not have that luxury, as they can not import more Oil, ex overseas or ex off planet, so they will cease exports to many foreign customers, when it becomes apparent that their own needs will be found wanting.

When? I would suspect, within 10-20 years?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 12:30pm

As you can see PERCEPTIONS_NOW is very good at ringing forth valuble statistical evidence amongst other things. I really enjoy his/her stuff and gain a lot of insight.
I guess I just add a bit of psychology or something to the effort.
Some things are predictable ...take a look at the very emotional game of NRL where the two best coaches are motivational. The Queenslanders will win the series that is just a dead-set replay of the 1st match itself.
Politics has its own 'direction' in life upon this world, amongst all of the other 'Gifts' of the world and 'their' direction/purpose in the great scheme of things.

Military is the weakness of Europe, such is that it 'suffers' at its hands more than any other region of the world. The only time 'militarisation' was a European strength was in the past ...but that in itself was hand-held rather than projectile weaponry. Medicine is the European strength of the future - its pretty obvious.
So take into context that Mathematics is probably North America's worse factor and it suffers from its effects more than any other region. Asia, you can see - profits.
Australia? Well we may be the worst 'Sporting' region ...but thats for another Topic.

So, when I 'see' a Great Depression/Inflation coming out from the 'Imperial' USA (only 2 nations use Imperial in this day and age) ...it ain't hard to see why.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 1:00pm

How depressing :D LOL

But still if all of these so called financial experts can't agree then anyones guess is as good as the others ;)

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 1:15pm

;D exactly ;)

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 2:51pm

What absolute nonsense...If a real Depression ever hits Australia again you wont need to read about it to know it is here. the clues of 30%+ unemployment, food shortages, massive wage drops and so on will sorta clue you in..

true idiocy.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by salad in on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 4:56pm

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:33pm:

What you need my boy is to sit down with our esteemed Treasurer, Mr Wayne Swan for a good upbeat lecture. Mr Swan says his budget will create so many jobs that employers are thinking of hiring security teams in case workers are spirited away or kidnapped and put to work by firms short of workers. There won't be enough workers to go around.

Relax. Have some dip.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm

A 'depression' is defined as NEGATIVE GROWTH of at least 10% for a period of at least a year.

now let's talk about australia that has had 3 negative QUARTERS in almost 20 years.

you lot who are talking about the depression are referring to your mental state not our economic state. I am quite sure for you the Great Depression is already here. You will be eating Nasturtium sandwiches in the cold with no lighting while the rest of the country has meat and potatoes and holidays. The 'depresson' is a mind-set you created and then decided to live in - by choice.

Such folly is difficult to imagine - and yet you do it!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

A 'depression' is defined as NEGATIVE GROWTH of at least 10% for a period of at least a year.

now let's talk about australia that has had 3 negative QUARTERS in almost 20 years.

you lot who are talking about the depression are referring to your mental state not our economic state. I am quite sure for you the Great Depression is already here. You will be eating Nasturtium sandwiches in the cold with no lighting while the rest of the country has meat and potatoes and holidays. The 'depresson' is a mind-set you created and then decided to live in - by choice.

Such folly is difficult to imagine - and yet you do it!

You are again or should I say still, talking in past tense, because that's where you reside, you can not get out of the past, you are stuck there, just like that other Conservative mob, the Liberals!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 7:32pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

A 'depression' is defined as NEGATIVE GROWTH of at least 10% for a period of at least a year.

now let's talk about australia that has had 3 negative QUARTERS in almost 20 years.

you lot who are talking about the depression are referring to your mental state not our economic state. I am quite sure for you the Great Depression is already here. You will be eating Nasturtium sandwiches in the cold with no lighting while the rest of the country has meat and potatoes and holidays. The 'depresson' is a mind-set you created and then decided to live in - by choice.

Such folly is difficult to imagine - and yet you do it!

To set the record right, there is no generally agreed definition for a Depression, whereas there is for a Recession!

Perhaps, the main reason for that is there have been lots of Recessions and not too many Depressions.

However, one possible definition does refer to, "two general rules: (1) a decline in real GDP exceeding 10%, or (2) a recession lasting 2 or more years.

That said, the 10% criteria may not be a good indication, given the GDP decline in the US during the Great Depression, according to one description, was -
1930 -8.6%
1931 -6.4%
1932 -13%
1933 -1.3%.

Others suggestions include -
1) An economic depression is a severe downturn that lasts several years.
2) Unemployment being 25%.
3) A sustained, long-term downturn in economic activity.
4) A more severe downturn than a recession, which is seen by some economists as part of the modern business cycle.

And, just to make it MORE difficult, most countries now run statistics, which make a fair determination of the current Economic position, "somewhat clouded & difficult" to assess.

By way of example, the USA has declared itself "officially" out of Recession, but if the "stimulus, bailout packages & FED Reserve money ~~printing~~, err ~~laundering~~, oh you get what I mean, was detracted, then the US would still be well & truely in Recession and possibly nudging Depression.

What I'm saying is government figures are often Porky Pies!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 7:33pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

at least the past is ACCURATE and not like your vain imaginings of doom and gloom which you have been giving for years and years and yeras and been totally wrong.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 8:14pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 7:33pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

at least the past is ACCURATE and not like your vain imaginings of doom and gloom which you have been giving for years and years and yeras and been totally wrong.

Really? Which predictions were they?

What I've said, going back to Yahoo days in late 2006 to 2007, was that a Global Recession was coming and the causes were Demographic (Baby Boomer Bust) & Peak Energy.

That came true in late 2007, thru 2008 in the form of the GFC and the US & many other countries would still be in Recession, if they had not thrown a mountain of Debt at the problem, thus temporarily hiding the "official effects".

However, that temporary effect is now wearing off and as there is no more access to increase existing Debt levels, the full force of the GFC is about to return, as I suggested.

I also said that the Baby Boomer Demographics would push Housing over the edge in the US, in Europe, in OZ and most other countries.
The US started back around 2005, Europe has been on the decline for the last couple of years and OZ is now starting to feel the pinch.

So, I will claim that as another correct prediction and I will go further, by saying that Globally, housing has a lot further to adjust and the decline in existing suburban values, has a lot further to go, over the next 10-20 years!

Other than that, I have said by the end of 2012 the Peak Energy & Demographic situation, combined with Global Debt overload, should finally be apparent, even to the likes of yourself and the long term decline will have set in.

The other major issue I have raised is Climate Change and regrettably I doubt there will be agreement on that, until it is far too late, too take the mitigation measures, which maybe could have been put into place, to save the very worst effects or to be able to postpone them long enough to give future generations a chance.

So, again I ask, which predictions did I get wrong?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 1:13am

Actually Longweekend,
Australia is in a 'sporting' crises and it seems the 'cities' kinda suck lately too.
But there is a lot of Australian culture that is 'associated' with USA culture and suffer along with them. Of all the States that best relate to the USA - it would be Queensland and of course, it really did feel the brunt of the last Recession more than any other state (territory).

Like I said, there may be a 'Hyper-Inflation' where people wish there was a 'down-turn' to bring everything back down to earth finally. But at the moment, I'm kinda gonna state that it will be a Depression and only the Chinese invasion of Siberia and Russia's call for USA help will bring the Yanks back out of their economic slump.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 10:27am

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 1:13am:

what ever drugs you ar taking... STOP.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 11:21am

Don't worry Jas, longweekend is not one for thinking outside the square, he can just about mimic popular 'rightist' rhetoric. He would quickly sink in a free thinking world.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 12:58pm

Yeah - its kinda obvious when him and TheLastNail go for it upon a subject or two.
At the moment the score between my Predictions/Recognisations (in Layman) to his are something like an AFL score : 111 to his 0 ...and my points are from all 'behinds'. ;D I must seriously be kicking his butt ;)

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 1:53pm

The Depression You Better Hope We Have…

We’re often asked why hasn’t the U.S. suffered hyper-inflation… what with the trillions of dollars printed by the U.S. Federal Reserve.

The answer is quite simple. Although we’ll admit we overlooked it at first…

With a gold standard, a nation owed money (creditor nation) by another nation (debtor nation) can demand payment in gold.

But without a gold standard, the creditor nation can only receive paper or electronic money… money created by the flick of a switch.

That’s when inflation troubles begin.

But still, it doesn’t explain why Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe had hyper-inflation whereas today the Western world doesn’t.

Here’s the key: hyper-inflation only takes hold if a nation expands the money supply much faster than other nations… and if creditors have real alternatives to the inflated money.

That’s why Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe had hyper-inflation. And why the Western world doesn’t today.

Let me sum it up for you…

Why hyper-inflation happens

Following World War I, Germany had to pay compensation to the victors in gold or foreign currency.

But because Germany didn’t hold enough gold or foreign currency, it had to print new money to swap it for gold and foreign currency.

Clearly when your intention is to devalue the currency, working fast is critical.

Because as soon as the market gets wind of the plan, holders of the money will look to get rid of it as quickly as possible in exchange for something else.

In a matter of months, one gold Mark (money convertible into gold) had increased in value from 1,000 “paper” Marks to one trillion “paper” Marks.

The story is similar for Zimbabwe. Once the central bank began printing money, creditors stopped accepting Zimbabwe dollars – because they knew they were being devalued.

They preferred a better store of wealth – such as the U.S. dollar!

But while hyper-inflation is bad, what the Western world is experiencing is much worse. Because there isn’t a fixed conversion for paper money into gold for any currency, all central banks and governments know they can inflate the money supply.

As long as they don’t go too crazy.

That’s the main reason many central banks publish an inflation target.

They don’t do it for information purposes. And it isn’t to try and cap inflation. It’s there as a form of price-signalling… showing other central banks how much they can increase their money supply without causing a run on the currency.

As long as every central bank knows the limits, they can engineer a globally co-ordinated period of inflation… without fear of causing hyper-inflation.

And boy, has it worked.

How the misery is spread far and wide

Trouble is, it punishes the whole world – not just one nation.

And because gold is demonised as a “barbarous relic”, and even blamed for past depressions, most people – even pro investors – don’t realise the value of their money is being eroded.

That’s the “good” thing about hyper-inflation. You’re in no doubt what’s happening. You can see your wealth destroyed right before your eyes.

But with slow burning inflation caused by central bankers, the effects are near impossible to notice at the time. It’s only years later you wonder how you can earn three times as much as you used to, yet you’re still no better off.

When gold was considered as money, you can see inflationary periods followed by deflationary periods.

Wealth erosion didn’t happen over the long run. And purchasing power was broadly constant.

But once the monetary system removed gold and silver, there have been no periods of deflation.

Even during economic downturns, there hasn’t been deflation… only more inflation.

cont......

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 1:59pm

Why the worst is yet to come

During the past two years the U.S. Federal Reserve has created almost $2 trillion of extra money to keep the U.S. from collapsing.

And what has it achieved? According to Bloomberg News:

“The US economy will grow 2.5 per cent this year, down from 2.8 per cent projected in April, the IMF said today, citing higher commodity prices and bad weather in the first quarter and a weak housing market.”

The U.S. economy got a temporary inflation boost. And now the impact has gone.

If central banks want to postpone the overdue depression, it can only do one thing: and that’s print more money. Given a choice between that and allowing the global economy to collapse on their watch we know which they’ll choose.

The fact is, as strange as it sounds, the world needs a depression.

It needs to purge the economy of all the past mistakes. Sure, you can sit there and hope it doesn’t happen. But that’s just accepting you’re happy for your wealth to be destroyed by slow-burning inflation…

This is much worse than the quick shock of hyper-inflation. But the slow-burn can’t and won’t last.

Our guess is that time is fast approaching. And that means inflation – even though it may not be hyper-inflation – is set to soar.

http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20110620/the-depression-you-better-hope-we-have%E2%80%A6.html

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:06pm

This is how longweekend sees the world.....

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:20pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

only an idiot would say we NEED a depression. It is truly a foolish and embittered kind of moron who would say it. do you hanker after soup kitchens, masive unemployment, poverty and death so badly?

you need help.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:20pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

well you asked for it with your housing bubbles that have burst all around the world :(

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:34pm

You clearly did not read the article, and you clearly don't understand the economic woes of the world, what's the use, stay stuck in your pathetic little world, big pictures are for big open minds.

Do you have something to say about what you think will be the outcome of America's exponential printing binge?

<<do you hanker after soup kitchens, masive unemployment, poverty and death so badly?>>
........................................................................

You have just described America 2011 and you didn't even know it, your stupidity is genius.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:47pm

US unemployment unacceptably high, White House advisers admit

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/03/us-nonfarm-payrolls-unemployment-white-house
..................................................

Article from 2009, but relevant today.

Crisis Plunges US Middle Class into Poverty

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,620754,00.html
.................................................................

Stiglitz Expects 2 Million U.S. Foreclosures This Year

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-09/stiglitz-expects-2-million-u-s-foreclosures-this-year-update1-.html

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 3:11pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:47pm:

Time to quadruple the first buyers grant ;) LOL

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 4:08pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 8:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 7:33pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

at least the past is ACCURATE and not like your vain imaginings of doom and gloom which you have been giving for years and years and yeras and been totally wrong.

I will take YOUR silence, as YOUR admission that YOU were wrong and that my predictions have so far been correct, not right (of centre), just correct!!!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 4:10pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:47pm:

Time to quadruple the first buyers grant ;) LOL

Would that enable 4 times the number first HOG's to go bankrupt, as Housing & the Economy collapse around them?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Karnal on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 4:16pm

Believe what you will, dear ones. This Great Depression is just the lead-up to 2012, where we have it on reliable evidence that the world will split like a cell.

Forgiven.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 4:16pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 2:20pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

This is another long term Recession, we need to have, as Paul Keating may be heard saying?

I would suggest, it is you (LongWeakend), who needs help, for continuing to not see Reality, even though it is almost bashing your door down!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 5:38pm

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 12:58pm:

you sound like deadhorse - but on lighter drugs. your predictions are ridiculous.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 5:40pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 4:08pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 8:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 7:33pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

at least the past is ACCURATE and not like your vain imaginings of doom and gloom which you have been giving for years and years and yeras and been totally wrong.

I will take YOUR silence, as YOUR admission that YOU were wrong and that my predictions have so far been correct, not right (of centre), just correct!!!

You predicted deep depression for USA. DIDNT HAPPEN
you predicted deep recession/depression for Australia. - EVEN FURTHER WRONG
you predicted a housing crash - DIDNT HAPPEN

you are so wrong you dont even know it.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:14pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 5:40pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 4:08pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 8:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 7:33pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

at least the past is ACCURATE and not like your vain imaginings of doom and gloom which you have been giving for years and years and yeras and been totally wrong.

I will take YOUR silence, as YOUR admission that YOU were wrong and that my predictions have so far been correct, not right (of centre), just correct!!!

1) You predicted deep depression for USA. DIDNT HAPPEN

2) you predicted deep recession/depression for Australia. - EVEN FURTHER WRONG

3) you predicted a housing crash - DIDNT HAPPEN

you are so wrong you dont even know it.

1) As I've said, the US & many other countries, have already been in a substantial Recession, since 2007. If you detract the Stimulus & Bailouts, which you should, then many countries have effectively been in negative GDP territory for some 3-4 years.

And, between now & the end of 2012, even you will confirm that the Global Economy is in a sick & sorry state and yes, it is likely to be a Depression level, regrettably!

Regrettably, because it didn't have to be that way.

2) In fact, what I have consistently said, was that Australia was in a much better place Economically, thanks to a few decisions by both Labor & Liberal. But whilst they did make a few good decision, they were far too few.
That said, whilst OZ has done better than probably 90% of other countries, they will still be severely affected, by what comes next.

3) Yes, I did predict a housing crash, starting in the US & Europe and then moving to most other countries, including Australia.

The US has already experienced a 40% + decline in national housing values, their sale times are now much longer and their mortgage market is in chaos.
Europe is following that decline in housing values and Australia & other countries have now started to follow suit.

From where I sit, it did happen, it is happening & it will continue to happen, for the reasons that I have persistently outlined!

This is not usual business cycle slowdown, it is a once in history Economic event, of Tsunami/Earthquake proportions.

So, as I have said once or twice, good luck & watch the Debt!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 5:40pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 4:08pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 8:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 7:33pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

at least the past is ACCURATE and not like your vain imaginings of doom and gloom which you have been giving for years and years and yeras and been totally wrong.

I will take YOUR silence, as YOUR admission that YOU were wrong and that my predictions have so far been correct, not right (of centre), just correct!!!

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by dsmithy70 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:48pm

Well seeing poverty is now defined by the ability to service a 400K+ mortrage,2 cars, credit cards, perhaps a boat and an overseas holiday every 12 months, I'm sure the depression is here.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:03pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:48pm:

Well seeing poverty is now defined by the ability to service a 400K+ mortrage,2 cars, credit cards, perhaps a boat and an overseas holiday every 12 months, I'm sure the depression is here.

you picked up on one of my pet hates - the way the 'poverty level' is set relatively rather than absolutely. the end result is that in our wealthy society, the 'poverty level' is now so high as to be middle range OR WEALTHY in a lot of other countries. you literally CANNOT eliminate poverty if you are intent on defining it in relative terms.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

You definitely have a problem with comprehension, as well as the 3 R's Reading, wRiting & aRithmetic!

Sorry, I almost forgot, the LW future prediction is that the next 20 years, will be the same as the last 20 years?????????

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 8:01pm

I think now may be an appropriate time, to re-post an article, I original wrote in late 2006. The basics are still the same, although with a few refinements in the latest version, back in February, 2011.
========================================
What is the Motor of the World and why is it stopping?
Let me say from the start, that the world and its financial system are now more interlocked than any other time in history and that the butterfly effect is very real. We have also stepped into the unknown, into a new paradigm and there is no going back!

What is the Motor of the World?
There will be many opinions, some will say China is now the motor of the world, some will say modern computers, some the US, some Oil, some this and some that. The truth is there are nearly 7 Billion opinions and most opinions would be at least partially true, given their particular time frame & perspective.

It would be correct to say that China has been a very significant force in global economics, certainly in the last 10-15 years. Certainly, the impact of computers and related electronics, over the last 50 years, has truly moved the world.

And, over 150 years, the US and Oil have been inseparable, as the driving forces of the global economy. Such a large part of the global economy today can be traced back to the US and it’s partnership with Oil.

But, in back of everything over the last 200 years particularly, has been the steady and un-relenting growth in population that has always been the major Driver or the engine of economic growth, at national and global levels.

However, that motor is stopping!

How did we get here?
Population Growth & Aging -
It took all of history, up to the year 1800 AD, for humanity to reach one Billion people. Baby Boomers had their origins in the population explosion that started during the Great Depression; they were a large part of our 3rd Billion and also part of the 4th Billion.

The population explosion really took off in 1945, it Peaked in 1956, reaching a Total Fertility Rate (TFR) of just under 5 children per woman, then levelled out to 1964, before slowing ever since, to a TFR of about 2.5.
Now, closing in on 7 Billion people, we are starting to exhaust the earth’s capacity to support human species and many others.

A continuation of past growth would have seen the global population increase to 10 Billion by 2050 and 20 Billion by 2150. Clearly, that is not likely to happen, as the TFR approaches the replacement level of 2.1 and the Global population growth continues to slow, the indications are that the global population will actually start to fall, within the next 20-30 years.

Why, because in addition to the already declining Fertility rate, we are now bumping into immovable objects, such as Peak Oil, Climate Change and Peak Food Production & fresh Water restrictions, all driven by the Global population and because most of the largest generation in history, the Baby Boomers, will die within the next 20-30 years.

With a few relatively minor interruptions, the period 1945 to 2005 was the greatest Global economic BOOM in history. In particular, the period 1995-2005 was a Growth Tsunami, driven by the Peak earning and spending capacity of US & other Global Baby Boomer consumers and the Peak Supply of Cheap & easily accessible Energy (Oil).

In addition, around the same time, technology drove massive gains in productivity; financial leverage multiplied tremendously from the historical 10/1 to 30/1 & above and interest rates in the US remained artificially low, for far too long, following the events of 9/11.
This was a perfect storm, for making money.

Link (Dr. Albert A. Bartlett - Arithmetic, Population, and Energy) –
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9B70AC68E1D2AA54&search_query=Dr.+Albert+Bartlett%3A+Arithmetic%2C+Population+and+Energy+Parts+1-8
Link (The Crash Course – Chris Martenson) -
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 8:06pm

What is the Motor of the World and why is it stopping? (Cont)

Peak Oil -
To make life more interesting, our number one Global Energy source (Oil) Oil also went from $10 a barrel, to nearly $150, in just a few short years. Whilst there may have been some external influences, the main reason for this huge increase was Supply & Demand.

And, while there are arguments for Abiotic Oil, Coal & Gas, there are drawbacks for these "replacements" and in some cases the source may not even exist (Abiotic), whilst other sources may actually create more problems than they solve, including that the future EROEI (Energy Return On Energy Invested) will continue to shrink and Energy costs (as a % of the National & Global Economy) continue to increase, both of which lessen the likelihood of the Economy staying in a positive growth mode.

Oil prices then retreated to levels lower than $40 a barrel, in expectation of a substantial fall in oil usage, arising from a slowing economy and the Oil price now seeks a new balance, between declining Oil production and the level of Economic Activity, with prices fluctuating in the $70-$80 range.

Transport, Plastics, Medicines, Chemicals, the list is almost endless, that are dependent on oil, no wonder the US has had such a long lasting love affair.

When historians look back, they really will say, "did they just burn all that oil".

Link – (The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production by Robert L. Hirsch)
http://www.acus.org/docs/051007-Hirsch_World_Oil_Production.pdf
Link (Dr. Albert A. Bartlett - Arithmetic, Population, and Energy) –
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9B70AC68E1D2AA54&search_query=Dr.+Albert+Bartlett%3A+Arithmetic%2C+Population+and+Energy+Parts+1-8
Link (The Crash Course – Chris Martenson) -
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
Link (The Converging Crisis Ecology, Energy & Economics by Paul Cehurka) -
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/ConvergingCrisis.pdf
Link (PEAK OIL: The Eventual End of the Oil Age by Jonah J. Ralston -
https://www.msu.edu/~ralsto11/PeakOil.pdf
Other Links -
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/cfapps/ipdbproject/iedindex3.cfm?tid=5&pid=53&aid=1&cid=&syid=1990&eyid=2009&unit=TBPD
https://www.msu.edu/~ralsto11/PeakOil.pdf

Climate Change -
Climate is our greatest asset, but Climate changes are also starting to impact us now, as can be seen in the lack of water in some parts of the planet, increased storm severity in others and the melting of Glaciers and possibly the Polar Ice Caps.

Despite recent furores about some scientists, there is general agreement amongst the great bulk of scientists That Climate Change is indeed happening & to some extent it is “Caused by Man”, which begs the question, do we have the right to play Russian Roulette, with the survival of future generations and indeed the human species.

We have already passed major climate tipping points, the planets climate is set to get very difficult for humanity, including a possible new ice age. Sure, we can take the chance that the scientists have it wrong, but then if their correct, this could be a massive Extinction Event.
NOAA Link –
http://www.climate.gov/#climateWatch
NOAA Mauna Loa CO2 Link –
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
NASA Link –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/

Peak Food Production –
With the total global population still bursting at the seams, for the time being, we must make sure everything possible is done to ensure food production is provided for the increasing population, right?

Wrong, instead we are diverting large parts of agricultural production away from food production and into the production of fuels, as a replacement for Oil.

Even if we wanted to boost Food production, Climate Change is and will continue to, raise serious questions on our present and future capacity, to deliver enough food, to keep the surging global population fed.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 8:10pm

What is the Motor of the World and why is it stopping? (Cont)

Where are we now and where to next?
Whilst the sub-prime debacle in the US has its own distinct origins, including NINJA mortgages (Greed), it has highlighted falling Real Estate values and New Housing starts, which has separate Demographic origins and had been declining for some time.

In economic terms, the primary driver of the real global economy is consumer demand. The largest demand driver is the 45-55 age group, primarily in the USA, due their large earning and spending capacity.

Demographic levels are already being re-shaped, as nearly two Billion Baby Boomers have commenced a 20 year transition from being big spenders, to big Retirement savers, to thrifty Retirees, before leaving us forever, in increasing numbers.

This massive aging of the global population is changing the dynamics of the world economy, with the bulk of Boomer wealth likely to pass on before they do and as the generations following behind the Baby Boomers, are relatively less in numbers.

In particular, Real Estate and New Housing markets, particularly in the US & Europe have already fallen and continue to do so, arising from a lowering in demand, led by thrifty and retiring Boomers.
Link to Aging Population issues -
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Economys-Greatest-Depression-Downturn-Ever-Is-Now-Just-A-Few-Years-Away&id=65824

As if housing issues were not enough, the aging process will also introduce some $50 Trillion in unfunded Health and Social Security costs, in the USA.

So, in the short to medium term, we will see:
1) Constraints, both in the Supply of & Demand for, Oil.
2) A massive de-leveraging of financial markets, including some $800 Trillion in the Derivatives markets.
3) Government Budget deficits are set to continue to expand, due to the Global Debt crisis.
4) Massive increases Health and Social Security Costs, again expanding deficits.
5) Problems arising from Climate Change and Food production.

You can guess what awaits with Taxes, in the near future, to pay for past indulgences. This will happen, irrespective of what side of politics is in power.

And, with Debt levels already at historical highs, we will see past fixes, either not able to be used or possibly set to cause more harm, than help.

Now, we are just past the Peak of a once in history Population Growth Mega Cycle.
Now, the reality looms of a slowing economic future, as reflected in stock markets and oil prices, next the Economic Growth Fairy dies.

Now, the perfect storm will reappear, this time as a Cat 5 in financial demolition!

What Futures await?
The very basis of modern life will be shaken, the magnitude of the quake, will be 9.9.
Whether we arrived at this situation, by accident or design, we are never likely to know, although events suggest a mixture of both, seems probable.
So, the design has now been set in motion and we now enter the 2nd quarter, of the highest stakes game, ever played!

Unlike the Great Depression, we are now truly between a rock and a really hard place.

The truth is, there is no magical, Hollywood, easy fix.
The truth is, there is no pot of gold at the end of the Kansas rainbow.
The truth is, we are in DEAP Sh!t –Debt (Global) –
Debt is going into unknown territory, in many countries, heading north towards 100% of GDP & beyond!
Energy Decline (Global) – All the easy to get, cheap Energy has already gone, what’s left is the other side of the Hubert’s Curve.
Aging Population (Global) – The Employment Participation ratio has commenced declining, as Boomers first retire, then die, 2 Billion of them.
Population Decline (Global) – the rate of growth is slowing & the total will actually start to decline, within 20-30 years.

Had corrective decisions been made earlier, then it may have been possible to reduce some of the worst side effects, regrettably, that did not happen.

Regrettably, if we opt for a better now, then future generations will pay for our mistakes and indulgence.
That reasoning is not acceptable and can not be allowed to succeed!
As we look to the future, we need to look thru different eyes, thru different thought processes.
The days of Smoke & Mirrors, of Shock & Awe, of the Desire to Acquire & Retain Power, of Self interest, at the expense of societal interest, must end.

Can we make those changes, the answer is YES!
Will the required changes be made? Now there, is a $64 Trillion question!

The answers will come on these boards and others, in other forums, in politics, in business and the answers will need to come quickly.

There are discussions that must take place and Mindsets that must change; the time has come to look beyond borders and elections.

Good luck & watch the Debt!
=====================================
I can see it now, LW's response is, I'm right (which he definitely is, of centre) & your wrong.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 12:31pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

You NEVER predicted the GFC. You just guess some things that anyone could have guessed after the event. The current US unemployment rate is really 16% which is consistent with a depression. Call it what you like it is not a good sign and places like Detroit once the hub of American manufacturing is just a ghost town full of poverty and dilapidated buildings and factories :(

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 5:55pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 12:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

16% because YOU say it is? bit like how Pansi says our true unemplyment rate is 30%

do you ever wonder why so many people on here mock you so heartily? you get so many things wrong that whenever you post something we just assume it is wrong unless there is real evidence to the contrary.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 7:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 5:55pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 12:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

Go to Detroit and see for yourself. There was a write up in Wheels magazine a few months ago about Detroit. If that's not an example of people living in a depression then I don't know what is !! There are many other states in the same boat as Detroit. The US Government does what every other Government does around the world and fudges the unemployment statistics :(

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:18pm

I've been sniffing around on American Forums. They all believe they are falling into a Depression. By the sounds of it, they are already.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:41pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 7:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 5:55pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 12:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

usefull source if writing about cars (which you know nothing about!) but not much good for source economic data!

and everyone knows detroit is a mess and has been for a decade or more. you dont look at one city and extrapolate to the rest of the country. You dont take Mt Druitts unemplyment crime and low soeci-economic status and use it to define the whole of australia. unless of courses you are pansi who is already in a Great Depression all of her own making.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:43pm

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:18pm:

I've been sniffing around on American Forums. They all believe they are falling into a Depression. By the sounds of it, they are already.

same advice to you. 'forums' are not representative of any society. if this one were you'd concur that there were a lot more labor supporters than coalition ones - and the polls negate that one. you'd also end up believe that most Greens are gay and that most labor supporters were thicker than 2 planks. Granted the last one might be correct!!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by dsmithy70 on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 9:59pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:43pm:

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:18pm:

I've been sniffing around on American Forums. They all believe they are falling into a Depression. By the sounds of it, they are already.

Quote:

you'd concur that there were a lot more labor supporters than coalition ones -

LOL the politics section hasn't had a pro Gillard thread for months if ever.
It's all get rid of her or issues based now.

Quote:

you'd also end up believe that most Greens are gay

Probably ;D

Quote:

labor supporters were thicker than 2 planks.

So you'd be one of the invisable coalition supporters then :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:11pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 8:10pm:

I can see it now, LW's response is, I'm right (which he definitely is, of centre) & your wrong.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

Well LW, looks like my prediction was pretty good, yet again!

And that pretty much sums you up, "your wrong & I'm right".

Problem is that statement is not backed up by any logical argument or resume of facts.

For example, the article I wrote titled " What is the Motor of the World and why is it stopping?" encompasses much of the reasoning behind my thoughts on the current & future of Economics.

Where is your reasoning, beides I'm right & your wrong???

It's nowhere!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 7:14am

longweekend and his uninformed side kick (andrei) argued in 2007, that there would be no economic downturn, and called anyone who disagreed scaremongers. He seems to have conveniently forgotten those arguments.

longweekend, you were wrong and you know it. Unless, of course you can prove that we didn't have a GFC.

You were proven wrong in 2008 and you will be proven wrong again.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 8:55am

Hell, bet LW thinks that the ALP is still running strongly and not disintergrating as a party.
;D

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 9:24am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 9:59pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:43pm:

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 8:18pm:

I've been sniffing around on American Forums. They all believe they are falling into a Depression. By the sounds of it, they are already.

Quote:

you'd concur that there were a lot more labor supporters than coalition ones -

LOL the politics section hasn't had a pro Gillard thread for months if ever.
It's all get rid of her or issues based now.

[quote]you'd also end up believe that most Greens are gay

Probably ;D

Quote:

labor supporters were thicker than 2 planks.

So you'd be one of the invisable coalition supporters then :D :D :D :D :D[/quote]

but can even labor supporters find the slimmest of reasons to support her???

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 9:25am

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:11pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 8:10pm:

I can see it now, LW's response is, I'm right (which he definitely is, of centre) & your wrong.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

my reasoning is simple. ON the basis of our predictions, yours were almost totally wrong and mine were almost totally correct. it is that simple. you predicted depression in the USA and deep recession here plus a house price crash. so... did that happen or not?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by WESLEY.PIPES on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 12:19pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 7:14am:

For all the scaremongering about the dreaded 'GFC' it had precisely zero impact on my life, nor on anyone I know.

Oh hang on, that's not quite true - I did get $900 for nothing.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Jasignature on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 12:55pm

Sssh Wesley! :-X
Here in Australia ...we just play along (like actors ;)) to whatever happens in regards to the USA (UK), for want of having our own personality.
...so if the USA (UK) is feeling depressed :(
Then we just lay it on a bit thicker :'(

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 1:21pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 9:25am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:11pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 8:10pm:

I can see it now, LW's response is, I'm right (which he definitely is, of centre) & your wrong.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:13am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

so in summary... your predictions were wrong, just as I said. The USA didnt go into depression and we didnt go into recession nor did our house market crash.

I was right, you were wrong.

its quite simple: your predictions failed miserably and mine were pretty much spot-on. it IS that simple.

Congratulations LW, you are a true idiot!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 10:40pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

Because your position has no reasoning, beides I'm right & your wrong???

It's nowhere!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:17pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

You missed out predicting the GFC, the biggest event of all !! Your predictions are sh.t !!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by perceptions_now on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:23pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

You missed out predicting the GFC, the biggest event of all !! Your predictions are sh.t !!

Are you sure about that?

I would have said, LW's predictions were sh!t!

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:39pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 10:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

Because your position has no reasoning, beides I'm right & your wrong???

It's nowhere!

why does there have to be reasoning in such a simple matter? My predictions were right and yours were wrong. it is that SIMPLE.

I did have my reasoning at the time and stil do. But as if to underline the point, the fact my predictions were accurate would imply my reasoning was superior to yours.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 1:04pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:39pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 10:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

Because your position has no reasoning, beides I'm right & your wrong???

It's nowhere!

Yes but your's are not predictions because you always predict things after they have happened :) LOL

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 1:05pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

You missed out predicting the GFC, the biggest event of all !! Your predictions are sh.t !!

Are you sure about that?

I would have said, LW's predictions were sh!t!

yes badweekend's predictions are total BS ;)

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 5:12pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 1:05pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

You missed out predicting the GFC, the biggest event of all !! Your predictions are sh.t !!

Are you sure about that?

I would have said, LW's predictions were sh!t!

yes badweekend's predictions are total BS ;)

yeah because for years Ive been saying there would be no depression and USA would probably go into a recession and then recover with a small chance of a repeat recession before slowly climbing out. I also said australia would not go into recession.

Funnily enough I was right! and while you morons have been predicting a housing crash for 5 years i predicted continued rises or plateaus and... again. I WAS RIGHT.

so I find your posturing and that of nedwin/pinhead to be laughable. youve both been monstrously wrong and for some time.

some people never learn...

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 7:49pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 5:12pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 1:05pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

You missed out predicting the GFC, the biggest event of all !! Your predictions are sh.t !!

Are you sure about that?

I would have said, LW's predictions were sh!t!

yes badweekend's predictions are total BS ;)

Now that the arse is falling out of the property market you do what you always do and give a running commentary and then call that a prediction in hindsight. You really kid yourself mate.

Everyone except you knows that the property market in Australia was being propped up by the labor stimulus package and now that it has filtered through we are now going through what the rest of world experienced after the GFC. Property bubbles have burst everywhere and Australia is no exception.

Get out there and start talking to business owners and they will tell you that there is no money in the economy. Steve Keen is spot on when he says that the Middle Class is debt ridden with mortgages up to their neck and no longer has any spare income capacity to fuel the economy. Whereas your so called prediction is just optimistic rhetoric you'd expect from property spruikers looking to justify there next easy commission on their next house sale.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by longweekend58 on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 8:19pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 7:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 5:12pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 1:05pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 12:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Why? because my predictions were right and yours were wrong? surely that makes YOU the idiot.

You missed out predicting the GFC, the biggest event of all !! Your predictions are sh.t !!

Are you sure about that?

I would have said, LW's predictions were sh!t!

yes badweekend's predictions are total BS ;)

2-6%

a price correction.

happened before dozens of times

will happen again.

and you will STILL be renting next to pansi.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 9:58pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 8:19pm:

2-6%

a price correction.

happened before dozens of times

will happen again.

and you will STILL be renting next to pansi.

so the price correction has finished and prices are going to plateau or rise again :D LOL

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by GoddyofOz on Jun 24^th, 2011 at 2:52am

If a Depression does begin, it will begin with the collapse of Greece. That country is the flashpoint, in my opinion.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 24^th, 2011 at 7:04am

longweekend<<yeah because for years Ive been saying there would be no depression and USA would probably go into a recession and then recover with a small chance of a repeat recession before slowly climbing out. I also said australia would not go into recession.>>
......................................................................

LOL @ you on the basis of:

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 23 Jun 2011 at 09:01:45 PM GMT is:
$ 1 4 , 3 4 8 , 2 5 7 , 7 6 0 , 7 7 8 . 9 9

The estimated population of the United States is 310,807,457
so each citizen's share of this debt is $46,164.46.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$3.92 billion per day since September 28, 2007!

and LOL @ you again on the basis of you not having a clue what's going on outside of your remote village.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 24^th, 2011 at 1:00pm

GoddyofOz wrote on Jun 24^th, 2011 at 2:52am:

If a Depression does begin, it will begin with the collapse of Greece. That country is the flashpoint, in my opinion.

The reserve banks will just keep printing more money and lending it to dead beat economies just to buy more time without fixing anything. Eventually they will have to face their day of reckoning in a much worse financial state :(

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Jun 25^th, 2011 at 1:21pm

Who do I blame?

Obama_002.jpg (21 KB | 35 )

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by IWontPayMyBills on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 3:28am

I blame executive, bureaucratic, sporting and Political salaries - its time to ween them of welfare and get them back into the work force and honest manual labour...No more greedy bludging scum.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 7:17am

IWontPayMyBills wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 3:28am:

I blame executive, bureaucratic, sporting and Political salaries - its time to ween them of welfare and get them back into the work force and honest manual labour...No more greedy bludging scum.

You are quite right. It's easy to whinge about an unemployed person getting $230 a week, but we do tend to conveniently forget about the fat cats on exceptional salaries that do nothing for the nation as a whole. These people are the real bludger's in my opinion, they just keep on taking.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by BigOl64 on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 7:48am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 7:17am:

IWontPayMyBills wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 3:28am:

I blame executive, bureaucratic, sporting and Political salaries - its time to ween them of welfare and get them back into the work force and honest manual labour...No more greedy bludging scum.

Agreeing with bill crany,now there's a smart way to enhance your credibility. ;D

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 8:19am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 7:17am:

IWontPayMyBills wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 3:28am:

I blame executive, bureaucratic, sporting and Political salaries - its time to ween them of welfare and get them back into the work force and honest manual labour...No more greedy bludging scum.

I wonder if you guys have thought where would we all be if it was'nt for Bill Gates? and the likes of him.

or maybe even Henry Ford.

someone with brains that used them and then reaped the rewards..

I dont call them bludgers or doing nothing for the country..

as I asked where would we be without them??

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 9:53am

I was referring to the fat cat parliamentarians that keep on taking without giving. There's nothing wrong with honest business men and women.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 10:31am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 9:53am:

I was referring to the fat cat parliamentarians that keep on taking without giving. There's nothing wrong with honest business men and women.

I beg your pardon sorry...

its the fact they walk away with huge pensions and gold passes yet can still get well paid employment and it doesnt affect anything that gets me.. of course when you make up the rules yourself I guess its understandable.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 11:17am

cods wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 10:31am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 9:53am:

I was referring to the fat cat parliamentarians that keep on taking without giving. There's nothing wrong with honest business men and women.

If you listen to parliament for an hour, or more if you can bare the torture lol, day after day of immature banter with little achievement. That's what they get the big bucks for, it's definitely not value for money. Would you employ people like this to work for you? I wouldn't, they clearly show they are not serious about their work, and I'd fire the lot of them, well if push came to shove I might keep a few, but not the time and money wasters.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 8:12am

pansi having read crooks thread on price increases...I believe the next Great Depression. will be with the people expecially those on fixed miserable centrelink payments...

whatever is going on in the world.. centrelink doesnt keep up with it.

not sure about wages but at least you have the ability to fight for better wages...

how do you fight centrelink for a better income?..you dont!

so depression will set in, I used to go out to the shops daily, but not anymore they scare the hell out of me..

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by imcrookonit on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 8:22am

MASSIVE debts in some countries and extremely low interest rates make the task of avoiding another global financial crisis ''enormous'', a global banking organisation has warned. :o

The international organisation of central banks says the scene is set for a new financial crisis unless Greece and other countries lift interest rates and more rapidly slash debt.

In a report released overnight in Basel, the Swiss-based Bank for International Settlements says three years of near-zero interest rates in the major advanced economies have increased the risk of "a reprise of the distortions they were originally designed to combat".

There are fears Greece's financial crisis could help spark another global financial crisis. :o

"Pessimism has become tiresome, so optimism is gaining a foothold," the report says before asking whether the reasons for global pessimism about the financial system have really been superseded by events.

The report says the dangers are "towering debt, global imbalances, extremely low interest rates, unfinished regulatory reform and financial statistics still too weak to illuminate emerging national and international stresses". :(

The BIS was the most vocal of the international organisations warning of a crisis in the lead-up to 2008 and has been redesigning global banking standards in a bid to stave off another one. In a signal it believes the new standards may not be enough, it says international financial flows are now "staggeringly large".

"A sudden reversal of such flows could wreak havoc with asset prices, interest rates and even the prices of goods and services in countries at both ends of the flows," it says.

While indebted nations such as Greece enjoyed the confidence of their lenders for the moment, their problem was "either you enjoy the confidence of the markets or you don't".

"A loss of confidence in the ability and willingness of a sovereign to repay its debt is more likely to be characterised by a sudden change in sentiment than by a gradual evolution," the report says.

"This means that governments that put off addressing their fiscal problems run a risk of being punished both suddenly and harshly. And if that day comes, experience teaches us the measures needed to regain the confidence of investors will be substantially larger, more difficult and more painful than they would have been." :(

Demanding that Greece, Ireland and Portugal repay rather than restructure their debts despite "popular backlashes", the BIS says the turmoil in those countries "would pale beside the devastation that would follow a loss of investor confidence in the sovereign debt of a major economy".

Near-zero interest rates in mainland Europe, Britain and the United States are delaying financial adjustments and "magnifying the risk that the distortions that arose ahead of the crisis will return".

"If we are to build a stable future, our attempts to cushion the blow from the last crisis must not sow the seeds of the next one," the report warns.

Responding to the report, Treasurer Wayne Swan said there were "clearly risks to the global outlook arising from uncertainty in parts of Europe".

"However, the prospects for our region remain much stronger as the weight of global activity continues to shift in Australia's favour," he said.

Mr Swan also backed the governor of Mexico's central bank, Agustí´ın Carstens, to be the next head of the International Monetary Fund, saying it was important the president be "chosen on the basis of merit and not nationality".

Until now, every IMF president has come from Europe.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 8:41am

swan is still banking n China.what will happen when this TAx puts our prices up-?.. will we still be banking on China do you think?..

we are running out of other countries to sell too as this CARBON TAX bites then

btw I am wondering what this vulcano is doing to the footprint in Chile..or even Argentina..maybe even NZ..seems like it is going to go on for a long time yet.they have about 80 live vulcanos over there.not all perking thank goodness.just seeing the ash and lava covering the land and forestry was amazing it will do untold damage for years to come.

what will this do to GW?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 9:12am

cods wrote on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 8:12am:

You lobby your parliamentary representatives. You could do what the oldies did and get your gear off in protest (not recommended in the middle of winter) but people don't usually revolt until they're in dire straights, well Aussies anyway.

You can keep bleating to the pensioner lobby....whatever it is?

Change will only happen when enough people get angry, and that could be another 12 months yet.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 9:27am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 9:12am:

cods wrote on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 8:12am:

like I say pansi between now and another 12 months a lot of depression will be coming our way. sorry I didnt mean to bleat. thought I was stateing a fact..we really dont have much of a voice..

when it comes to giving anything to those dependent on centrelink..it doesnt usually happen.[if then] untill the budget. in the mean time.. suck it up.

we used to have a lobby group GreyPower or something like that. must check it out..maybe its time I got really radical.lol

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 10:50am

<<..maybe its time I got really radical.lol >>
.........................................................

lol just don't tell your family they might put you away. I was a radical youth, gave it up for years, but have recently become re-radical.....the family worry, they think they're going to be called to bail me out of the lockup lol

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 11:24am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 10:50am:

no worries there pansi told my lot I was going to be a stirrer when I got old.. and I suddenly got old..I was never radical I sort of blame these forums to have something to do with it they definately bring out the worst in me..why some have to be so rude and spiteful I dont understand.

another thing I am up for pansi.. is if they decide to take my drivers licence off me.. if I am ok with driving.. I have said I dont need a piece of plastic to drive with so if they want to lock me up.. well come and get me...lol...

I havent been threatened yet but every now and then you read where they want to stop people driving say at 65.. it makes me so angry.. its not as if I am driving round Australia for gods sakes.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 1:06pm

Grandfather, 72, drove in circles for three days after getting lost in UK

A GRANDFATHER spent three days driving around southern England, before he was found on Christmas Day, after his wife's flight was switched from Heathrow airport to Gatwick airport during last week's travel chaos.

Mohammed Bellazrak, 72, is believed to have clocked up nearly 2000 miles (3218km) as he desperately tried to find his way home after dropping off his wife at Gatwick on December 23.

What should have been a 120-mile (193km) journey lasting two-and-a-half hours became a 66-hour marathon. Mr Bellazrak ended up sleeping in his car before trying again and again to work out his route back to Trowbridge in Wiltshire.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/grandfather-72-drove-in-circles-for-three-days-after-getting-lost-in-uk-travel-chaos/story-e6frfku0-1225976646699

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 5:52pm

have done that once or twice in Canberra ha.ha.. not for 3 days but sure as heck got lost.. going to our new airport is a nightmare I can tell you, finding the carpark is an experiance all of its own.

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by thelastnail on Jun 27^th, 2011 at 9:23pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 25^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

Who do I blame?

what about your crooked mates at Goldman and Sucks ??

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jul 1^st, 2011 at 9:50am

Mining boom won't last forever......I don't believe it!
..............................................................

Buck up and start saving, the good times are coming to an end, Treasury warns

HOUSEHOLDS better start saving and putting some money aside for a rainy day or living standards will suffer when the mining boom ends, Treasury has warned.

Australians need to work harder and the political system must return to the reform spirit of the 1980s and 1990s to avoid falling back down the income ladder, Treasury secretary Martin Parkinson said in a speech last night.

Dr Parkinson warned there was no guarantee Australia would be the economic winner following the rise of Asian superpowers India and China.

He said that Australian business needed to change their structure and mindset and workers must improve skills to ensure the country took advantage of Asia's economic opportunities.

Treasury's blunt warning came as a study warned $500,000 in super is not enough to sustain the average Australian comfortably into old life.

A study to be presented to The Australian/Melbourne Institute Growth challenge predicts super levels will not sustain our ageing population unless people drastically cut back their lifestyles.

It warned only those prepared to live “quote modestly” could expect super to last their whole lives.

The report also predicted most people would need to draw on a pension to ensure they had enough to live off.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/buck-up-and-start-saving-the-good-times-are-coming-to-an-end-treasury-warns/story-e6frfmd9-1226085293236#ixzz1Qo2laQ88

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jul 1^st, 2011 at 9:54am

Get ready to clean your fan.
........................................

Reserve Bank of Australia's Warwick McKibbin compares global ecnomic outlook to a 'train wreck'

OUTSPOKEN Reserve Bank member Warwick McKibbin has compared the global outlook with a "slow-motion train wreck".

Mr McKibbin described debt-laden Greece as merely "the first carriage to break".

Speaking at the same conference in Melbourne, however, Treasurer Wayne Swan offered a different perspective.

"Some have a dire view of what's happening in Europe," he said. "I don't share those views."

The comments came shortly after Greece staged a last-minute escape from bankruptcy, passing a range of austerity measures designed to keep bail-out funds flowing from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund.

That news buoyed markets with the ASX 200 climbing 1.7 per cent to 4608 points, while the dollar soared against the US and hit a 26-year high against the British pound of 66.76 pence.

Since Monday morning the dollar has gained more than US3c against the greenback to trade last night at $US107.37.

The Greek parliament was to stage the second part of the vote last night.

Prof McKibbin - who stressed his views were his own and not those of the RBA - said Greece was just one of several nations that needed to rein in spending and increase taxes.

Adding to the global gloom, low interest rates across the developed world are threatening to trigger an inflation outbreak.

"We have a series of economies facing very serious fiscal adjustment," he told the audience. "There's almost guaranteed collapse or crisis in the eurozone and there's serious global inflation problems and a policy response looming."

Further evidence also came to light that the RBA may delay the next move on interest rates, as data point to another fall in house prices and sluggish credit growth.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/different-opinions-on-slow-motion-train-wreck/story-e6frfm1i-1226085325020#ixzz1Qo3rG9po

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by cods on Jul 1^st, 2011 at 10:48am

Speaking at the same conference in Melbourne, however, Treasurer Wayne Swan offered a different perspective.

"Some have a dire view of what's happening in Europe," he said. "I don't share those views."

well we can only watch this train wreck for afar anyway so it will be interesting to see who is right, wont it?.

I cant believe all this rioting and firebombs isnt doing the Greek footprint any harm!... anyone wanna buy a Greek Island?

Title: Re: 2nd Great Depression is here.
Post by pansi1951 on Jul 31^st, 2011 at 4:48pm

These poor people must feel like it's the great depression. Keep your eyes and ears open, stories like this will become common place as the recession/depression deepens.

Thousands cut off as power bills soar

SOARING power prices - which will increase again tomorrow - are being blamed for a 75 per cent surge in householders being disconnected by energy retailers.

Welfare experts say the number of disconnections through financial hardship - now about 8000 homes a year - is "out of control" and will only get worse with electricity prices to rise by 17 per cent and gas by 14 per cent from tomorrow.

This will add up to $380 in electricity and $84 in gas bills each year, according to the Essential Services Commission, and these price hikes come on top of this month's increase in energy supply charges.

The Federal Government has reacted by introducing new legislation forcing retailers to offer payment by instalment to struggling customers and only allow a disconnection if the customer "clearly" has no intention of meeting this payment plan.

State Energy Minister Michael O'Brien, who will implement the new legislation, said he was also holding meetings with welfare agencies to tackle the impact of rising power prices.

"I intend to continue discussions until there is an outcome that ensures people on low incomes are not unfairly disadvantaged by rising energy prices," he said yesterday.

The rising energy costs have coincided with a record number of complaints being made to the industry watchdog - up 15 per cent to 10,200 last financial year.

The strain these rising costs are putting on household budgets is being blamed by the experts for the spike in disconnections, as revealed this week by the commission.

Almost 2000 homes had their power disconnected "for failure to pay bills" in the first three months of this year, compared with 1088 during the same time last year, the commission reported..

And in the same period, almost 22,000 householders were making "hardship" payments by instalment because they could not afford to pay the full amount of their bill.

The South Australian Council of Social Service said the number of households losing power would only get worse with this next round of price hikes.

"Energy retailers will have more and more customers who can't pay their bills," SACOSS executive director Ross Womersley warned. He said the State Government's recent $7.50-a-year increase in power bill concessions for lowincome earners had already "been blitzed" by soaring energy costs.

"One of our great concerns is the growth in the number of people who are employed but still poor because of the soaring costs of living, not because they have made bad choices with the use of their money," he said.

UnitingCare Wesley chief executive Simon Schrapel said people's health and possibly lives could be put at risk if they had to live without energy for heating, cooling and cooking.

"The increase in disconnections is evidence of an overwhelming increase in cost of living pressures which can't be avoided," he said.

Energy Industry Ombudsman Sandy Canale said there was "no doubt" rising power prices meant more householders were being threatened with disconnection and seeking advice from his office.

He urged householders having trouble coming to a paying arrangement with their retailer to contact his office "because the last thing we want is for people to lose their power".

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/thousands-cut-off-as-power-bills-soar/story-e6frea6u-1226105112990