Post by astro_surf on May 25th, 2011 at 12:41pm
Flying Binghi wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 12:12pm:
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Do go on, please! Who are they useful idiots FOR? Who is actually coordinating this shadowy conspiracy and for what end? Pray do tell!
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Political Parties >> The Greens >> Greens backdown on Carbon price http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1306287993 Message started by Maqqa on May 25th, 2011 at 11:46am |
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Title: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Maqqa on May 25th, 2011 at 11:46am
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/labor-rebuffs-greens-on-coalmines/story-e6frg6xf-1226062491025
THE GREENS have backed away from their hardline position on a high starting price for the carbon tax, conceding they won't get the price they want in negotiations with Labor. As the multi-party climate change commission prepares to meet over the weekend to hammer out a deal, Greens leader Bob Brown has conceded his party will accept a lower starting price for the tax than it believes necessary to ensure a start to the transition from coal to gas and renewable energy. The stance is at odds with the Greens' decision to vote down Kevin Rudd's emissions trading scheme in 2009 because it was too weak, and comes as Energy Minister Martin Ferguson slapped down the minor party by declaring the coal industry has a bright future. When Greens deputy Leader Christine Milne said last week a carbon price of more than $40 a tonne would be needed to shift Australia's reliance on coal-fired power to cleaner energy, the Gillard government responded that the starting price would be `well south” of that. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by progressiveslol on May 25th, 2011 at 12:10pm Maqqa wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 11:46am:
You at it again maqqa. Stop keeping us informed or giving us things to debate. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by progressiveslol on May 25th, 2011 at 12:11pm
You just know the carbon price is going to slide quickly after the mushrooms allow the implementation and going to be high.
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Flying Binghi on May 25th, 2011 at 12:12pm
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Bob Brown has been put in his place in the last week or so. Not an unexpected development.. ;) When are the greens going to learn that they are to be the 'useful' idiots' of the carbon scam and nothing more.. ;D . |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by astro_surf on May 25th, 2011 at 12:41pm Flying Binghi wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 12:12pm:
Do go on, please! Who are they useful idiots FOR? Who is actually coordinating this shadowy conspiracy and for what end? Pray do tell! |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Flying Binghi on May 25th, 2011 at 12:56pm
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What, and spoil the fun.. :-? Yer caint have a "shadowy conspiracy" if yer go blabbing about it.. ;D . |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Kat on May 25th, 2011 at 1:42pm The bloody SCAM should be dumped altogether. Along with those who support it. They are CONNING us, and we can't/won't see it. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by astro_surf on May 25th, 2011 at 1:46pm Flying Binghi wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 12:56pm:
But you said they are "useful idiots", and a useful idiot by very definition is an agent for someone else. So who? Surely, if you're making the accusation, you can back it up with something? |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Flying Binghi on May 25th, 2011 at 2:15pm
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Excellent observation there astro-surf. As it is all just apparently a "shadowy conspiracy" i geuss i can offer only small hints. Dont want to be accused of giving the game away.. :-? Hint 1/ - Who makes money from carbon trading ? Fer one it aint Bob Brown... pure as the driven snow he is.. ;) ...or is that driving in a snow cloud... on or the other.. :) . |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by astro_surf on May 25th, 2011 at 2:19pm Flying Binghi wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 2:15pm:
So who? Enough with the vaguely cryptic insinuations, either put your money where your mouth is and tyell us who is coordinating this conspiracy or STFU with your woo woo conspiracy theory BS. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Flying Binghi on May 25th, 2011 at 3:00pm
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err, sorry astro-surf, i thought as yer in this thread about a "carbon price" yer might understand a little about the subject.. ::) astro-surf, can i suggest you study a bit about the 'carbon' trading subject before yer come back.. :) . |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by astro_surf on May 25th, 2011 at 3:06pm Flying Binghi wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 3:00pm:
In other words you can't actually justify your lies. I thought as much. And now you're saying that any discussion about carbon pricing should be made under an a priori assumption that carbon trading is fraudulent? Ah, sorry dude, the rest of the world hasn't gone quite as far down the rabbit hole as you. We haven't drank the proverbial kool aid that you have. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Kat on May 25th, 2011 at 3:14pm astro_surf wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 3:06pm:
They should. Because it is. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by adelcrow on May 25th, 2011 at 3:59pm
Politics is all about negotiation and compromise...the Greens have just shown they are more responsible than Black Abbott and his extremist faction within the Coalition.
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by WESLEY.PIPES on May 25th, 2011 at 4:04pm adelcrow wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 3:59pm:
Indeed - More responsible for the sad state of affairs in this country. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Flying Binghi on May 25th, 2011 at 5:02pm
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"...Who is actually coordinating this shadowy conspiracy and for what end?..." ....Oh, dear.. :-? astro-surf invents a "shadowy conspiracy" then gets upset with me when ah caint tell em anything about it.. ;) . |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by cods on May 25th, 2011 at 5:18pm adelcrow wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 3:59pm:
I am amazed you cant see through this whole thing... they keep showing a bit more of this puzzle and still you dont get it.. 3 years ago we had untill 2013....now in the year 2011 we have a decade... Britian has untill 2050... sounds to me like these TAX fiends havent got their act together and come up with a simple solution to bamboozel us all with.. what a laugh but ut shows how easily the left are to be lead down this path.... Booby brought Al Gore to our shores to show us the right way... we had to do something beofre this world stopped... because everything that was happening right now was human caused... so we humans have to stop it... no price was high enough......lol... that was when he wasnt up there with the full force of responsibility staring him in the face... now he is in the glow of "Power" it is starting to wear a bit thin by the looks of things.. and gues what he is reducing his price... on saving the planet.... how can that be?????????????? we are going to be Taxed to hell and back whilst he sits back and watches this govt flog our coal and gas and everything else we have to sell thats ruining the planet and causing CLIMATE CHANGE>.. remembers... the biggest moral challenge of our times.???? oh gawd.... hes reduced his price... I dont believe it...what a hypocrite.... |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by progressiveslol on May 25th, 2011 at 5:21pm cods wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 5:18pm:
Dont forget UK 2050 for 50% of 1990 levels. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by astro_surf on May 25th, 2011 at 5:23pm Flying Binghi wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 5:02pm:
"...Who is actually coordinating this shadowy conspiracy and for what end?..." ....Oh, dear.. :-? astro-surf invents a "shadowy conspiracy" then gets upset with me when ah caint tell em anything about it..[/quote] So you're just a plain old liar with an agenda against the Greens, right? |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by adelcrow on May 25th, 2011 at 5:27pm
Right wing extremists who only know how to complain and wreck or Green progressive moderates who negotiate and compromise..I know where my votes going :P
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by longweekend58 on May 25th, 2011 at 5:49pm adelcrow wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 3:59pm:
You just equated the Greens with compromise and negotiation! you made my day with a joke like that! |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by cods on May 25th, 2011 at 6:20pm adelcrow wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 5:27pm:
I would have thought .. THE BIGGEST MORAL CHALLENGE OF OUR TIMES.. was NON NEGOTIABLE.... sorry but to start chipping away at something that WAS PANIC in the street a few brief months ago.... and we are now going to be TAXED into oblivion.. and you say its okay to lower the price... how bloody convenient. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Flying Binghi on May 25th, 2011 at 6:36pm
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Whoa, astro-surf. Lets not get to far out in the paddock. Tell me more about this "shadowy conspiracy" yer introduced to the thread.. :-? . |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by creep on May 25th, 2011 at 6:42pm Flying Binghi wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 12:12pm:
Meaning Brown is on the receiving end! Well I guess a few people picked that one! |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Deathridesahorse on May 25th, 2011 at 6:49pm astro_surf wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 2:19pm:
CAN'T YOU LET HIM ENJOY ANOTHER DOZEN SESSIONS ON THE CRACK TO DEAL WITH ALL THAT?!!? :o :-? :-? ::) |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by matty on May 25th, 2011 at 7:52pm
What carbon price? It was a hysterical allegation from the Liberals asnd their advertisers. the ALP certainly reject that.
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Flying Binghi on May 25th, 2011 at 8:04pm
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Is that what astro-surf is on. I did wonder about the call-sign.. ;) I'm still wondering about the "woo woo conspiracy theory" though.. :-? ............. ;D ...meanwhile, what do I see, "agent" Al Gore the carbon trader scam king in full view. The boats, several houses and near daily private jet trips all in public view and all paid fer by them carbon hysteria tiths he's received. Al Gore a carbon trading true believer. The Australian Greens - Al Gores useful idiots.. ;) . |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 26th, 2011 at 5:15pm
I think the problem that we seem to have on here with so many people is that they either live now or have grown up completely sheltered from how difficult life is and running a budget.
Those people tend to then think that their bubble if you like, of friends and work colleagues are the 'norm' and that everyone lives like they do. The reality, for so many of us, is that people do live quite differently, run tight budgets, have to make sacrifices and have debt, car loans, mortgages etc. Now for the cost of living to increase across the board with a carbon tax - it is just not supportable and those who think it is a good idea don't seem to understand the strain people are under these days. To hit people with a tax to fix climate change is one thing - to hit people with a tax which everyone admits will do nothing for climate change is just idiocy. We don't need a carbon tax, and if you look at the pollings, we don't want a carbon tax. I would like people to realize, particularly those who have led an easy life bankrolled by their parents and in cruise mode, to realize that there are a lot of people not able to sit with the luxury that they take for granted and who will be badly affected by this disastrous policy. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by progressiveslol on May 26th, 2011 at 10:44pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 26th, 2011 at 5:15pm:
In the end, the ultimate goal (you will have to decide what you think it is, this is my interpretation) is to have it so people cant afford the extras. The people on budgets will be the new poor, I mean real poor. The middle class will be the working poor and the rich will be well off. The rich of the rich will go on as if nothing happened. This all boils down to environmentalism and the ultimate goal of environmentalism, is what you will get out of the climate change scam. They couldnt do it by protesting, yelling or jumping in front of a bull dozer, but they will get to their goal with climate change. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Soren on May 26th, 2011 at 11:21pm adelcrow wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 5:27pm:
;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 27th, 2011 at 9:30am progressiveslol wrote on May 26th, 2011 at 10:44pm:
There is a lot of truth in that. My point really is that a lot of people on here have lived a pretty sheltered existence, bankrolled through a pretty cruisy life. They have no idea what it is like to struggle on a budget and how bad their ideas or policies they support will whack the rest of us. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by freediver on May 28th, 2011 at 9:52am Maqqa wrote on May 25th, 2011 at 11:46am:
Sounds sensible to me. It will leave the Greens with something to campaign for next election without them being seen as undermining legislation. They will get the credit for the carbon tax (it is their policy) without losing their political niche. An added bonus is that it should keep the tax on the agenda as people push for it to be raised rather than switching to a trading scheme. It does not make sense to go straight to a price that is high enough to force a change to renewables. There is a lot we can do to reduce our emissions for a much lower price. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Maqqa on May 28th, 2011 at 10:12am freediver wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 9:52am:
The Greens vote have already plummeted from 12% to 7% - 41.6% decrease (as I was corrected 8-) ) So they have little to gain other than a moral victory but if you believe what Bob Brown says - there would be no change until it hits $40+ So they have to increase it - they will be decimated either way because voters will know it will go to $40 in a few years In addition Labor wants $20 and the Greens wants $40 ie a 50% increase This is like saying the GST will start out at 12% but will increase to 24% - can you image the outcry if this happens? |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by freediver on May 28th, 2011 at 10:30am Quote:
What does he actually say Maqqa? From the opening post: Quote:
Do you see the difference between this and a claim of 'no change'? |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 28th, 2011 at 10:34am
There isn't a need for a carbon tax or ETS in Australia.
It has no value whatsoever. Things are ok as they are, locally. The problem is with India and China, not Aus. |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Maqqa on May 28th, 2011 at 10:44am freediver wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 10:30am:
Do you see the difference between this and a claim of 'no change'?[/quote] (1) I am making the $40+ reference from the Greens website (2) The whole argument about $40+ is about setting up a tax, which is suppose to reduce Aust emissions which according to lefties is supposed to reduce global temperature |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by creep on May 28th, 2011 at 10:52am Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 10:34am:
So true And with the push for China to be able to increase its emissions then it highlights the uselessness of the Co2 tax. The scaremongering scam artist Tim Flannery comments that "If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow the average temperature of the planet is not going to drop in several hundred years, perhaps as much as 1000 years because the system is overburdened with CO2 that has to be absorbed ... " So China increases it's Co2 by more than what Australia could ever possibly do and it will make not one shred of difference! |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Maqqa on May 28th, 2011 at 11:26am creep wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 10:52am:
China emits in 10 days what Australia is hoping to cut in 10 years |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by freediver on May 28th, 2011 at 11:28am Maqqa wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 10:44am:
(1) I am making the $40+ reference from the Greens website (2) The whole argument about $40+ is about setting up a tax, which is suppose to reduce Aust emissions which according to lefties is supposed to reduce global temperature [/quote] So what did Brown actually say? |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Maqqa on May 28th, 2011 at 11:53am freediver wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 11:28am:
http://bob-brown.greensmps.org.au/content/greencast/senator-bob-brown-doorstop-25-5-2011 at 8:57 At 10.34 it's funny how he said referenced the carbon tax as "the whole world is going that way" and mention 3 countries Sweden has a Carbon Tax of $100 - is that we want? $100???? it's not difficult to google "bob brown $40 carbon" he mentioned this back in March 2011 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/greens-leader-bob-brown-flags-carbon-tax-at-40/story-e6frf7l6-1226016403402 |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by freediver on May 28th, 2011 at 12:51pm
So when you posted this:
Quote:
You actually meant something completely different? |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by Maqqa on May 28th, 2011 at 1:41pm freediver wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 12:51pm:
I just posted the reference |
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Title: Re: Greens backdown on Carbon price Post by creep on May 28th, 2011 at 4:40pm Maqqa wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 11:26am:
Yes it's laughable isn't it. Here have the scaremongering gullies wanting a tax on Australians as that will save the world. And then at the same time they are pushing for China to increase their Co2 emissions. And then there's India!!! |
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