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General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304558078 Message started by Equitist on May 5th, 2011 at 11:14am |
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Title: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 5th, 2011 at 11:14am We're supposed to have skills shortages, right!? Single mothers of school-aged children are expected to satisfy work-tests or other 'mutual obligation' tests to receive Parenting Payment/Newstart, right!? So, why is our Govt still effectively-paying 'sit-down money' to other women via working their husband's tax offsets, without any 'mutual obligation' requirements whatsoever!? Discuss. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 5th, 2011 at 11:19am http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?doc=/content/00216847.htm Quote:
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 5th, 2011 at 11:20am /contd. Quote:
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 5th, 2011 at 11:26am http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?doc=/content/00215174.htm Quote:
This is an example of mid-upper class WEALTHfare - which is counted outside usual welfare payments because it is paid as a so-called 'rebate' via the ATO instead of Centrelink. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 5th, 2011 at 11:26am
Oooooh there's that angry streak again....
You really don't like the middle - upper incomes do you? |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by WESLEY.PIPES on May 5th, 2011 at 11:28am
I don't like reading 'tax-speak' at tax time, let alone any other time. What exactly is your issue?
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by FRED on May 5th, 2011 at 11:28am Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 11:26am:
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 5th, 2011 at 11:30am This thread is about anomalies and double standards in our welfare and WEALTHfare systems - it is simply not good enough to deprive needy people of a reasonable standard of living (and constantly harass them in the process) whilst doling out non-means-tested and reverse-means-tested payments to the already-well-off! |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 5th, 2011 at 11:33am
Of course all middle to higher incomes are parasites who are deliberately keeping poor people poor too.
It's nothing to do with the fact people earn low incomes because they are thick as pig-shite and didn't bother at school you know.... It's because they have been deliberately picked on and they will be poor forever. The world according to our Stalinist mate Thy. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by WESLEY.PIPES on May 5th, 2011 at 11:37am
So correct me if I'm wrong - but your issue is with more of a persons taxable income being retained for use by their family? No actual payments being made to them, just that they get to keep more of THEIR hard-earned than someone who doesn't have any dependents?
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 5th, 2011 at 11:38am ... wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 11:37am:
In a nutshell yes. Thy dislikes middle incomes not paying about 80% in tax. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Verge on May 5th, 2011 at 12:03pm
Its not exactly a double standard.
Dependent sposes are no drain on the economy in any way, and since they are depended upon their partners income they also draw no government wlefare. The offset is essiently a "redistribution of tax", in that a single income household receiving no government benefits of any sort and have a non working partner gets taxed at the marginal tax rate of the one person. Had that income been split over two people, their income tax would be much lower. The spouse tax offset is a "thankyou" from the government for saying thanks for not going on the dole, so here is an offset on your tax to even it a bit. The highest claimers of this I seen was in our baby boomers where the wife raised the kids and never went back to work, it was never the "rich" or middle class at all. The biggest career block I seen was probably road transport where the father was rarely at home and a parent was needed at home, and then when the kids left they are now pretty much helping raising grandkids as well. Its not such a bad thing. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Guildford on May 5th, 2011 at 7:36pm Verge wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 12:03pm:
quite possibly the best post of 2011. Well done ! |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by longweekend58 on May 6th, 2011 at 2:13pm
And its not like the dependant spouse rebate is that much anyhow. it is a trifling amoun give - as someone said - as a thank you for not taking someone elses job and for looking after your own kids and not using government assisted child care.
The amount could be doubled and it would STILL be trifling comparead to what is saved. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Prevailing on May 6th, 2011 at 2:19pm
Get rid of all capitalist class Bourgeois welfare and handouts - these people neither need nor are they entitled to tax breaks, childcare, stay at home pay or any other rort of the tax payers dollars. This money belongs to the working class and the battlers on legitimate welfare - not these rich parasites with a massive sense of entitlement and blame assignment mentality... 8-)
:) |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by bogarde73 on May 6th, 2011 at 2:19pm
nemesis my dear friend, you are getting your hair all mucked up over nothing at all.
Do you realise that there is hardly anybody at all who gets the dependent spouse rebate or has done for 20 years? The income test is so tight that the only people who might be entitled can't afford to have a spouse sitting at home. There may be odd cases, where perhaps illness prevents someone working or whatever but really it's a non-issue. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 6th, 2011 at 7:53pm So, do we have a skills shortage, or not!? So, do we have capacity constraints, or not!? So, is it preferable for us to continue to import and accommodate foreign workers, when there is a portion of the existing community which is effectively being paid sit-down money to stay out of the workforce (and in existing dwellings)!? Seriously, I do appreciate that this rebate essentially covers the tax-free threshold of the non-working spouse - but I maintain that it is a serious anomaly in our tax and transfer system which belies certain rhetoric of our LibLab pollies... BTW, another associated anomaly is the scope for concessional spouse contributions to Superannuation - which is an even bigger reverse-means-tested tax rort... |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Guildford on May 6th, 2011 at 10:51pm
How about the middle class wealthfare of negative gearing? It is afterall only the 'so called' wealthy who can afford to take advantage of this.
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by mavisdavis on May 7th, 2011 at 8:27am Guildford wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 10:51pm:
Who then, is going to invest in accomodation for bludgers, if we abolish negative gearing? I suppose we could impose a 160% tax rate on people who work, and give it all to the layabouts? ;) |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 10th, 2011 at 11:03pm It's about time, that the Federal Govt stopped paying sit-down WEALTHfare money to some (via their spouses) - whilst forcing genuine Welfare recipients to jump through draconian so-called 'mutual obligation' hoops... |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Kat on May 10th, 2011 at 11:21pm Equitist wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 11:03pm:
Where mutual-obligation fails is that the govt can (and has) abandon their side of the deal at will. Whereas the PBR (poor bloody recips) cannot. In fact, the govt has breached its side of the deal by reducing the unemployed to below-subsistence levels of benefit, while simultaneously refusing to provide training OR jobs. And no, I DON'T believe the govt's job-creation figures. Although it seems, after the budget, that the training problem may be improved somewhat. They STILL need a fair rate of payment, though. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by bobbythebat1 on May 10th, 2011 at 11:34pm
Glad I don't have a spouse who's not working.
I'm smart. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Verge on May 11th, 2011 at 10:07am Bobby. wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 11:34pm:
So you obviously dont have young kids do you? |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 11th, 2011 at 10:09am Bobby. wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 11:34pm:
Wish I could say the same bobby. However with 2 girls aged 2 and 6 months who do you propose look after them when my wife would go to work? Bear in mind when she stopped we took a hit to our budget of $200k per year!! |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 11th, 2011 at 10:56am Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:09am:
She should be thankful that she's not a single teen mum reliant upon below-subsistence welfare payments - since the Labs (and, by default, the Libs) seem to think that teen mums should be able to return to school once their youngest child reaches the ripe old age of 1 year! I, for one, hope that this draconian measure is intended to improve support for existing teen mums - whilst acting as an effective-deterrent for future would-be teen mums! |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 11th, 2011 at 10:58am Equitist wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:56am:
So that's the best we have?? Just be thankful she is not a teen mum? Yeah don't worry she spent 6 years post-school studying for her qualifications, then spent 10 years in investment banking - she doesn't deserve anything my wife eh? Just be thankful she isnt a teen mum. Really heard it all now. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by perceptions_now on May 11th, 2011 at 11:21am Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:09am:
That's a problem for all couples, when they decide to have a baby, irrespective of how much their budget may be! |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 11th, 2011 at 11:23am perceptions_now wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 11:21am:
This is true PN but the last thing you need is a Government ripping you off from your benefits left, right and centre and telling you how rich you are when you've seen your budget taken a $200k hit do you?? |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by WESLEY.PIPES on May 11th, 2011 at 11:27am
Crikey andrei give it a rest would ya?
You're NOT doing it tough, and the taxpayer doesn't owe you a penny to keep you in the luxury you became accustomed to. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 11th, 2011 at 11:29am ... wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 11:27am:
I've never said I was doing it tough. By the way the Australian taxpayer has never given me a cent. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by WESLEY.PIPES on May 11th, 2011 at 11:31am Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 11:29am:
What about that $5000 baby bonus? Or is $5K so insignificant, you just forgot about it? |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 11th, 2011 at 11:42am ... wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 11:31am:
Wasn't on my tax return. My wife got the baby bonus. I was a resident of the Channel Islands for tax my friend. Ask the ATO. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by perceptions_now on May 11th, 2011 at 12:06pm
Big earners' benefit for non-working wives gets the chop
WAYNE Swan says it is time to take action to stop big earners receiving a tax benefit for spouses sitting at home. So he moved yesterday to phase out the Dependent Spouse Tax Offset, which delivers a $2286 reduction to the tax payable by anyone earning $150,000 or less who has a spouse and no children. "To remove tax breaks that encourage people without kids to stay at home, we will phase out the Dependent Spouse Tax Offset beginning with partners under 40," Mr Swan said last night in his budget address. The measure, beginning on July 1, will not affect taxpayers if their dependent spouse is a carer, or an invalid, or permanently unable to work, or if the couple has children. It will phase out the benefit gradually, beginning with taxpayers whose dependent spouse is under 40 years of age. "This will encourage younger dependent spouses without children to seek paid employment," the Treasurer said. "Those aged in their 20s and 30s are of prime working age and have a reasonable prospect of gaining employment, particularly given the strength of the Australian conomy." The measure will be phased in because the government felt that employment prospects of over-40s who may not have worked for more than a decade are not strong. As well as delivering a message that the government will not tolerate welfare payments for the rich, it is a revenue-raiser, delivering $755 million in savings over the next four years. The government said the benefit was now out of date, and it was moving to encourage more women to re-enter the workforce. Link - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/big-earners-benefit-for-non-working-wives-gets-the-chop/story-fn8gf1nz-1226053619265 ======================== This measure seek to do two things - 1) Assist in cutting the Deficit. 2) Push more people toward joining the workforce, which will begin to be stretched very thin by retiring Baby Boomers. It is aimed at those earning over $150,000 (Taxable income), who may be able to afford losing what is a relatively small benefit for them and it is an interim measure, which is likely to be followed, in future, by those with spouses over 40 (without dependent children) also losing the benefit. Perhaps, they could have done that now, but it is likely to follow shortly. However, the main reason behind this move was to push more people into what will be a dwindling workforce. On average, some 30,000 "official" Baby Boomers, each month, will turn 65 over the next decade or so and that will severely strain Australia's workforce capacity, unless immigration is ramped up substantially or the OZ Economy starts to head south, as the Global Economy tanks again, which is likely. Anyway, at this point, both Labor & the Liberals will try to push up the Workforce Participation rate, as possible and top up via immigration. This appears to be a cost effective and reasonably balanced approach. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by WESLEY.PIPES on May 11th, 2011 at 12:10pm
Well I don't really have an issue with it being removed for childless couples. It's still probably not that fair, but childless couples have it pretty sweet anyway. I'm sure they can handle it.
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 11th, 2011 at 12:52pm ... wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 12:10pm:
I don't disagree on that point. When I think back to when we were both working and earning about the same. We had a $4k per month mortgage and it was not even 20% our monthly after tax income. Ahhhhhhhh, them's the days. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Verge on May 11th, 2011 at 12:57pm
Its funny how you look at it, to me it was a just a small "evener" for having a marginal tax system where one doesnt work.
Also, if you can afford for your wife to stay at home and not work with no kids, the tax offset is just a sweetener. To me, its leaving jobs open for people who want and need them. |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 11th, 2011 at 8:05pm 'Sweetener' or not, it was a socio-economic perversion, to impose draconian, stressful and child-unfriendly 'mutual obligation' requirements on genuinely-disadvantaged welfare-reliant sole parents, whilst subsidising relatively well-off men to keep stay-at-home 'spouse-housekeepers' on the shelf... |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Verge on May 11th, 2011 at 8:14pm Equitist wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 8:05pm:
Where do you come up with this garbage. It has nothing to do with the laws in place for single people. I always thought it was a good measure, and kept the job sector open for people wanting a job. Would you rather the workforce be filled with spouses who didnt really want or need the job, but the couple of grand a year paid for their beauty treatments and they dont pay tax on it anyway? |
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Title: Re: Double standards: Dependent Spouse sit-down $$$ Post by Equitist on May 11th, 2011 at 8:38pm Were you aware, Verge, that Howard and Costello increased the Dependent Spouse Rebate in the very same Budget under which they both introduced Welfare to Slavery for Single Mums and changed the formula to reduce Child Support payments!? Ironically, the Welfare to Slavery changes were made on the pretext of skills shortages and the Dependent Spouse Rebate increase was slipped in without any fanfare (or scrutiny). There was also a simultaneous and costly TV demonisation and vilification propaganda campaign which insidiously-stereotyped single mothers as welfare rorters who shacked up with new blokes and didn't disclose their changed circumstances to Centrelink. What kind of people demonise, vilify and punish vulnerable women and children in such ways - whilst rewarding others!? |
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