Of course it is not being developed here because Holden and Ford have grabbed all of the green car innovation fund money to make more fossil fool junk cars :(

http://gm-volt.com/2011/04/12/cost-effective-ev-battery-reportedly-passes-tests-recharges-in-minutes/


Quote:

A German company has the attention of the electric vehicle industry and those watching it, having recently documented remarkable claims for its KOLIBRI lithium-metal-polymer battery. DBM Energy GmbH yesterday told GM-Volt.com that its design could wind up costing less than the types of batteries used in the Chevrolet Volt, the Nissan LEAF, and other EVs while radically exceeding all meaningful performance criteria. We’re talking potential for reasonably priced electric cars that could travel 300-400 miles on a charge, and be replenished in minutes. If reports we were given prove true, this would mean the future is practically now – not years from now – with safe and durable batteries threatening to relegate petrol cars to merely optional status. Bold claims, you say? We agree, but will tell you what we were told: According to DBM Energy’s Chief Operating Officer, Markus Röser, a 98.8-kWh version of its battery can be fully recharged inside of six minutes, although he would not divulge how this was accomplished. “Regarding the kind of charger and the power input, we are not able to give any information yet, due to the fact, that this technology is just in internal use right now,” Röser said. And if trip-to-the-gas-station recharge times are not enough, consider the battery’s range potential. One version with over seven times the energy capacity of the Volt’s battery, and 4.75 times power of the LEAF’s battery, had enough juice to propel a converted Audi A2 test mule for more than 400 miles at highway speeds on a single charge. Last October, as some forum posters on GM-Volt have since chronicled, the Audi converted by DBM with help from Lekker Energie, and funding from the German economy ministry, traveled 375 miles from Berlin to Munich with a 98-kWh version of the battery. Upon arrival in Munich, the battery was reportedly only 80-percent depleted, which would mean range potential of well over 400 miles. The battery weighted just 770 pounds. The battery pack in a Tesla Roadster weighs 29-percent more at 990 pounds, and that car is EU-certified for only 211 miles per charge.......

http://gm-volt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/DEKRApic7quer-hochaufl-1024x767.jpg

[quote author=thelastnail link=1302667034/0#0 date=1302667033]Of course it is not being developed here because Holden and Ford have grabbed all of the green car innovation fund money to make more fossil fool junk cars :(

[Quote]


The reason holden and ford are not developing this battery is not because they wasted all that money on other things; it's because the germans friggen  invented it and the germans are developing it.

It's not a grand conspriacy, not even a small one, it's just a case of finder's - keeper's.

What would it matter to you anyway, it's not like you have any intention of buying any of this technology.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 1:57pm: Of course it is not being developed here because Holden and Ford have grabbed all of the green car innovation fund money to make more fossil fool junk cars :( The reason holden and ford are not developing this battery is not because they wasted all that money on other things; it's because the germans friggen  invented it and the germans are developing it. It's not a grand conspriacy, not even a small one, it's just a case of finder's - keeper's. What would it matter to you anyway, it's not like you have any intention of buying any of this technology.

so maybe you can tell us why Holden didn't proceed with this development back in  2000 ?? Instead they have grabbed 200 mill from tax payers to build the proverbial green car which as it turns out is just another 4 cylinder fossil fool car imported from Korea so don't try and be an apologist for these scam artists will you.

http://www.csiro.au/solutions/ECOmmodore.html


Quote:

Hybrid family car uses CSIRO technology Holden's ECOmmodore proves that petrol-electric cars could be economical today.    * Innovations    * Patented technology    * Advanced energy storage    * Reducing pollution    * On the road CSIRO technologies make the ECOmmodore much less expensive than previous hybrid vehicles. They are unique because they not only power a vehicle the size of a standard family car, but they also make it drive like one. Innovations The ECOmmodore uses innovations from across CSIRO including:    *      energy management strategies    *      advanced lead-acid batteries    *      super-capacitors    *      electric traction motor    *      light-metal castings.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 3:24pm:

so maybe you can tell us why Holden didn't proceed with this development back in  2000 ?? Instead they have grabbed 200 mill from tax payers to build the proverbial green car which as it turns out is just another 4 cylinder fossil fool car imported from Korea so don't try and be an apologist for these scam artists will you.

Don't know how many different way I can tell you this, but I don't work for holden, I don't know on what basis they make specific corporate decisions; here's a though ask, fuking them, why not.


BTW Im not appologising for anything, just pointing some basic facts that even you should be capable of understanding.

Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line??

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

[quote author=thelastnail link=1302667034/0#0 date=1302667033]Of course it is not being developed here because Holden and Ford have grabbed all of the green car innovation fund money to make more fossil fool junk cars :( [Quote] The reason holden and ford are not developing this battery is not because they wasted all that money on other things; it's because the germans friggen  invented it and the germans are developing it. It's not a grand conspriacy, not even a small one, it's just a case of finder's - keeper's. What would it matter to you anyway, it's not like you have any intention of buying any of this technology.

also worth noting that the technology was announced YESTERDAY. to be fair to car manufacturers, their tool-up times are measure in years - not hours.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:13pm:

Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line??

WHY?

I assume you make this claim because of a simple minded assumption that it must be a single unit, with a single input.
I have no idea what their technology is, or what power they need, but I have seen enough of your "Expert" opinion, to know you are full of it, and seek to put a negative spin on anything the least bit progressive, for reasons that escape me.

mozzaok
To charge a battery capable to move a car  400km in 6 minutes would definitely need more charging power than the average service station could provide.
But that does not mean that the petrol or diesel engine could not be replaced quicker than some car companies would like.

Maybe longweekend has shares in car companies.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

[quote author=thelastnail link=1302667034/0#0 date=1302667033]Of course it is not being developed here because Holden and Ford have grabbed all of the green car innovation fund money to make more fossil fool junk cars :( [Quote] The reason holden and ford are not developing this battery is not because they wasted all that money on other things; it's because the germans friggen  invented it and the germans are developing it. It's not a grand conspriacy, not even a small one, it's just a case of finder's - keeper's. What would it matter to you anyway, it's not like you have any intention of buying any of this technology.

holden and ford should have invented a time machine back 2008. I blame krudd and labor generally. Bloody commies.

mozzaok wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? WHY? I assume you make this claim because of a simple minded assumption that it must be a single unit, with a single input. I have no idea what their technology is, or what power they need, but I have seen enough of your "Expert" opinion, to know you are full of it, and seek to put a negative spin on anything the least bit progressive, for reasons that escape me.

basic maths. to use a water analogy (which is actually remarkable similar since the same laws apply to electricty as does water ie Ohms law and Darcys Law), if you haev a 98000 litre swimming pool you claim to be able to fill in 6 minutes then you will need a 980,000 l/hr water supply. the same applies to electricity.  Im not be negative. im being REALISTIC - something some of you have a very real failing in.

mozzaok wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? WHY? I assume you make this claim because of a simple minded assumption that it must be a single unit, with a single input. I have no idea what their technology is, or what power they need, but I have seen enough of your "Expert" opinion, to know you are full of it, and seek to put a negative spin on anything the least bit progressive, for reasons that escape me.

and to debunk your 'single input' concept. you could put twenty inputs into this battery but unless it manages to add up to 980kw it wont charge it in 6 mins.  I repeat... basic maths.

hawil wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 8:08pm:

mozzaok To charge a battery capable to move a car  400km in 6 minutes would definitely need more charging power than the average service station could provide. But that does not mean that the petrol or diesel engine could not be replaced quicker than some car companies would like. Maybe longweekend has shares in car companies.

my 'shares' are in the common sense and logic that is so often missing on here.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:14pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 2:32pm: [quote author=thelastnail link=1302667034/0#0 date=1302667033]Of course it is not being developed here because Holden and Ford have grabbed all of the green car innovation fund money to make more fossil fool junk cars :( [Quote] The reason holden and ford are not developing this battery is not because they wasted all that money on other things; it's because the germans friggen  invented it and the germans are developing it. It's not a grand conspriacy, not even a small one, it's just a case of finder's - keeper's. What would it matter to you anyway, it's not like you have any intention of buying any of this technology. also worth noting that the technology was announced YESTERDAY. to be fair to car manufacturers, their tool-up times are measure in years - not hours.

what tool up ?? Batteries are usually made by battery companies who are knowledgeable in the field.

Maybe if Holden started way back in 2000 with it's CSIRO hybrid designed car they would already be leaders in this area :( But GM scrapped the EV1 so why wouldn't Holden scrap the e-commodore :(

So??? You still have to refit the factory  ::)

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 3:24pm: so maybe you can tell us why Holden didn't proceed with this development back in  2000 ?? Instead they have grabbed 200 mill from tax payers to build the proverbial green car which as it turns out is just another 4 cylinder fossil fool car imported from Korea so don't try and be an apologist for these scam artists will you. Don't know how many different way I can tell you this, but I don't work for holden, I don't know on what basis they make specific corporate decisions; here's a though ask, fuking them, why not. BTW Im not appologising for anything, just pointing some basic facts that even you should be capable of understanding.

I understand one thing perfectly well and that is Holden and Ford keep making and selling the same old junk technology that keeps everyone addicted to the fool bowser. If you want to see whinging then just look at any thread about the rising cost of petrol or do you deny that it is an issue ??

astro_surf wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 11:44pm:

So??? You still have to refit the factory  ::)

Don't be silly !! An EV has far less parts than an internal combustion engine and auto transmission !! If anything the factory would need to be downsized ;) LOL

What tool-up is necessary for an electric motor ?? :) LOL

http://ddmotorsystems.com/ES-15A-6.jpg

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:13pm:

Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line??

With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 11:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL

clearly your paltry education doesnt allow you to understand the above argument. 400 mile range and 6 minute recharges sound great... until you think about what you have to plug it into - LITERALLY an electrical substation!

I'm with you LW. As it would take a sizeable hose and waterpressure to ram 98,000 liters through in six minutes, it would take a mighty power supply to ram 980 kilowatt hours through in six minutes. We aren't talking a trickle charge here.

To charge a battery for one kilowatt hour would take an hour at a thousand watts. A thousand watts is one bar of a radiator, substantial. Or ten kW for six minutes. Ten kW is already beyond any household supply. And that's for ONE kilowatt hour.

*visions of a huge Tesla coil shooting lightning into the terminals*

d.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 12:27am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL clearly your paltry education doesnt allow you to understand the above argument. 400 mile range and 6 minute recharges sound great... until you think about what you have to plug it into - LITERALLY an electrical substation!

Once agin - longweekend finds fault with a good idea.
You don't have to charge it up quickly -
you can charge it up overnight - dummy
which is what 99% of people will do.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 12:27am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL clearly your paltry education doesnt allow you to understand the above argument. 400 mile range and 6 minute recharges sound great... until you think about what you have to plug it into - LITERALLY an electrical substation!

I don't care about the 6 minute charge and the power needed to do it. I'm quite happy with an overnight charge when I am sleeping but of course you don't sleep do you !! Like I said stick to getting screwed at the fool bowser if that's so important to you.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 10:23am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:27am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL clearly your paltry education doesnt allow you to understand the above argument. 400 mile range and 6 minute recharges sound great... until you think about what you have to plug it into - LITERALLY an electrical substation! Once agin - longweekend finds fault with a good idea. You don't have to charge it up quickly - you can charge it up overnight - dummy which is what 99% of people will do.

Yes and he also ignores all of the other severe limitations associated with his fossil fool dinosaur. Like I have said before about EV's, someone else will invent it and manufacture it and we will end up importing it as usual :(

Quote:

Yes and he also ignores all of the other severe limitations associated with his fossil fool dinosaur. Like I have said before about EV's, someone else will invent it and manufacture it and we will end up importing it as usual :(

Well yes, seeing as how it has already been invented and patented by a german company, I don't see how there's any other way.

There was an announcement last year that in a lab, someone had made a battery wherein, due to the process of manufacture, all the electrons were somehow aligned, thus greatly reducing the resistance.

At the time, they made the same sort of claims - recharge a large battery in minutes.

And I feel that if the claim of 6 minutes were wrong, it would quickly be exposed. Surely the journalist would have noticed?

Ergo, there may be something to this.

... wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 12:25pm:

Quote: Yes and he also ignores all of the other severe limitations associated with his fossil fool dinosaur. Like I have said before about EV's, someone else will invent it and manufacture it and we will end up importing it as usual :( Well yes, seeing as how it has already been invented and patented by a german company, I don't see how there's any other way.

and go back before they invented it what were you wally brains doing here about it ?? Sweat bugger ALL as usual. Manufacturing excuses not manufacture anything :(

Don't worry, Holden has got its green fossil fool car imported directly from Korea ready to keep you chained to the fool bowser :) LOL

Please delete wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

There was an announcement last year that in a lab, someone had made a battery wherein, due to the process of manufacture, all the electrons were somehow aligned, thus greatly reducing the resistance. At the time, they made the same sort of claims - recharge a large battery in minutes. And I feel that if the claim of 6 minutes were wrong, it would quickly be exposed. Surely the journalist would have noticed? Ergo, there may be something to this.

6 minute charge is not the issue. If you can get the range and charge- recharge cycles you can live with an overnight charge or top up charge. That would suit my driving needs no problems and I know at least a dozen people straight off the bat for where it would be more than adequate for their driving needs ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

... wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:25pm: Quote: Yes and he also ignores all of the other severe limitations associated with his fossil fool dinosaur. Like I have said before about EV's, someone else will invent it and manufacture it and we will end up importing it as usual :( Well yes, seeing as how it has already been invented and patented by a german company, I don't see how there's any other way. and go back before they invented it what were you wally brains doing here about it ?? Sweat bugger ALL as usual. Manufacturing excuses not manufacture anything :( Don't worry, Holden has got its green fossil fool car imported directly from Korea ready to keep you chained to the fool bowser :) LOL

Yes, well why would I do do anything about it?  A fuel bill $20 a month is hardly impetus enough to do much.

What were YOU doing about it?

... wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 1:01pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:32pm: ... wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:25pm: Quote: Yes and he also ignores all of the other severe limitations associated with his fossil fool dinosaur. Like I have said before about EV's, someone else will invent it and manufacture it and we will end up importing it as usual :( Well yes, seeing as how it has already been invented and patented by a german company, I don't see how there's any other way. and go back before they invented it what were you wally brains doing here about it ?? Sweat bugger ALL as usual. Manufacturing excuses not manufacture anything :( Don't worry, Holden has got its green fossil fool car imported directly from Korea ready to keep you chained to the fool bowser :) LOL Yes, well why would I do do anything about it?  A fuel bill $20 a month is hardly impetus enough to do much. What were YOU doing about it?

YOU as in the collective lot of libbo dead beats. Since you don't believe in R&D, manufacturing and value adding you couldn't even make pulverised sheep sh.t you are so useless.

Nail - it's both the fault of the Libbos & the Laborites.

We've never had good governments in Australia.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 10:23am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:27am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL clearly your paltry education doesnt allow you to understand the above argument. 400 mile range and 6 minute recharges sound great... until you think about what you have to plug it into - LITERALLY an electrical substation! Once agin - longweekend finds fault with a good idea. You don't have to charge it up quickly - you can charge it up overnight - dummy which is what 99% of people will do.

THE WHOLE Point of this battery is its ability to be quick charged. if youy dont care about quick charges then why post about it? but the real problem is that you didnt think of the power supply problem, did you? See, thats what happen when you go to school and university. you learn to THINK critically.

Please delete wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

There was an announcement last year that in a lab, someone had made a battery wherein, due to the process of manufacture, all the electrons were somehow aligned, thus greatly reducing the resistance. At the time, they made the same sort of claims - recharge a large battery in minutes. And I feel that if the claim of 6 minutes were wrong, it would quickly be exposed. Surely the journalist would have noticed? Ergo, there may be something to this.

A) You dont align electrons. you can however align DOMAINS in a material eg a magnetic one.
B) you noticed the company was reluctant to describe the power source? der... of course they were. they too would have to admit to needing a 980kw power supply.
C) getting 98Kw/hr of charge from anythign less than 98kw/hr of input breaks the fundamental laws of physics which is so obvious the journos didnt feel the need to remind people.
D) the battery sounds excellent but no technology allows you to generate electricty out of a vaccum.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 12:35pm:

Please delete wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:32pm: There was an announcement last year that in a lab, someone had made a battery wherein, due to the process of manufacture, all the electrons were somehow aligned, thus greatly reducing the resistance. At the time, they made the same sort of claims - recharge a large battery in minutes. And I feel that if the claim of 6 minutes were wrong, it would quickly be exposed. Surely the journalist would have noticed? Ergo, there may be something to this. 6 minute charge is not the issue. If you can get the range and charge- recharge cycles you can live with an overnight charge or top up charge. That would suit my driving needs no problems and I know at least a dozen people straight off the bat for where it would be more than adequate for their driving needs ;)

of course its the issue moron! one of the serious limitations of EVs is recharge time. Range becomes less of a problem if you can recharge your car quickly. unlike you I see the WHOLE picture not your narrow little minds version of it. If this car could be recharged in 6 mins then thats faster than refuelling a car in general. even if you made it 18mins and suddenly the power source only had to be 300Kw it would still be remarkable.

My questioning of the power requirements were because you clearly had not thought of it. EVs are substantially less useful than fossil fuel cars at the moment for three reasons - range, refuelling time and cost. Everyone acknowledges those as the challenges and they are why EVs effectively do not exist on our roads. when they do, people will buy them. but not you. you will just complain about something and use it as an excuse to do do anything or buy anything just liek your gay friend Booby.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 6:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 10:23am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:27am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL clearly your paltry education doesnt allow you to understand the above argument. 400 mile range and 6 minute recharges sound great... until you think about what you have to plug it into - LITERALLY an electrical substation! Once agin - longweekend finds fault with a good idea. You don't have to charge it up quickly - you can charge it up overnight - dummy which is what 99% of people will do. THE WHOLE Point of this battery is its ability to be quick charged. if youy dont care about quick charges then why post about it? but the real problem is that you didnt think of the power supply problem, did you? See, thats what happen when you go to school and university. you learn to THINK critically.

I never posted this thread - dummy.

Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which
when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly.
You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts.
Go & post on another board - you troll.

Scientists already knew that lithium nickel manganese oxide could store a lot of energy, but the material took too long to charge to be commercially useful. The MIT researchers set out to modify the material's structure to make it capable of charging and discharging more quickly.

Lithium nickel manganese oxide consists of layers of metal (nickel and manganese) separated from lithium layers by oxygen. The major problem with the compound was that the crystalline structure was too "disordered," meaning that the nickel and lithium were drawn to each other, interfering with the flow of lithium ions and slowing down the charging rate.

Lithium ions carry the battery's charge, so to maximize the speed at which the battery can charge and discharge, the researchers designed and synthesized a material with a very ordered crystalline structure, allowing lithium ions to freely flow between the metal layers.

A battery made from the new material can charge or discharge in about 10 minutes -- about 10 times faster than the unmodified lithium nickel manganese oxide. That brings it much closer to the timeframe needed for hybrid car batteries, Ceder said.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/5228/

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

The reason holden and ford are not developing this battery is not because they wasted all that money on other things; it's because the germans friggen  invented it and the germans are developing it.

But, but, but....Paul and Bob said we would be the clever country with our economy based on Services and Tourism. Do you mean to say that driving all those smokestack industries, textile industries and manufacturing industries out of Oz has somehow left us with mining and not much else.

Wash your mouth out. The ALP stands for PROGRESS. Write that out 1000 times before you go to bed.

About the only innovation we have is the engine that Jack Brabham has invested money in. I think it's being developed on the Gold Coast. The other 'clever idea' is the one that got the US Army's interest so much so that they sent one of their trucks to Oz for testing. The US Army is the biggest vehicle fleet in the world and the alleged savings of about 30% in fuel sure got their attention. I will post some details after lunch.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 8:13pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 6:54pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 10:23am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:27am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:13pm: Sounds like a good technology but for the technobuffs it might be worth pointing out that to charge a 98Kw/hr batter in 6 minutes would require at LEAST a 980Kw connection. anyone know where to get one of those other than connecting to an overland transmisison line?? With a 400 mile range and 5000 recharge cycles I'll adjust my driving habits thank you very much ;) You just stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser like the rest of the losers ;) LOL clearly your paltry education doesnt allow you to understand the above argument. 400 mile range and 6 minute recharges sound great... until you think about what you have to plug it into - LITERALLY an electrical substation! Once agin - longweekend finds fault with a good idea. You don't have to charge it up quickly - you can charge it up overnight - dummy which is what 99% of people will do. THE WHOLE Point of this battery is its ability to be quick charged. if youy dont care about quick charges then why post about it? but the real problem is that you didnt think of the power supply problem, did you? See, thats what happen when you go to school and university. you learn to THINK critically. I never posted this thread - dummy. Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly. You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts. Go & post on another board - you troll.

so you finally acknowledge that you nee very high power inputs to charge it?  well that only took you a few days to finally understand it. thats faster than usual. maybe you are actually learning something from your betters!

No response to the link I posted longweekend?

I note too that you haven't provided the 100 cases of lives being saved by would be heroes, in the other thread.

I would be most interested.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

Please delete wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:32pm: There was an announcement last year that in a lab, someone had made a battery wherein, due to the process of manufacture, all the electrons were somehow aligned, thus greatly reducing the resistance. At the time, they made the same sort of claims - recharge a large battery in minutes. And I feel that if the claim of 6 minutes were wrong, it would quickly be exposed. Surely the journalist would have noticed? Ergo, there may be something to this. A) You dont align electrons. you can however align DOMAINS in a material eg a magnetic one. B) you noticed the company was reluctant to describe the power source? der... of course they were. they too would have to admit to needing a 980kw power supply. C) getting 98Kw/hr of charge from anythign less than 98kw/hr of input breaks the fundamental laws of physics which is so obvious the journos didnt feel the need to remind people. D) the battery sounds excellent but no technology allows you to generate electricty out of a vaccum.

now it's the power source that is the problem. first it was the range and now it's power source :( what problem will be next ?? :) LOL

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 8:52am:

so you finally acknowledge that you nee very high power inputs to charge it?  well that only took you a few days to finally understand it. thats faster than usual. maybe you are actually learning something from your betters!

It's not an issue if you don't want to charge it quickly. Do it over night like most normal people would !!

Look at the pros -

- No ripoff petrol
- No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
- No oil changes
- No oil filter
- No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
- No transmission to pack up and maintain
- No spark plugs to change
- No timing belt to change
- No fuel filter to change
- No radiator and hoses to change
- No fuel injectors to pack up
- No problems with contaminated fuel
- No exhaust pipe to change
- No toxic tail pipe emissions
- No green house gas emissions
- No catalytic converter
- Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
- Silent operation
- No wars fort over oil
- No environmentally damaging oil spills

The list of benefits is endless ;)

Bobby. wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 8:13pm:

I never posted this thread - dummy. Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly. You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts. Go & post on another board - you troll.

He just wants to reassure himself that his investment in his fossil fool gas guzzling clunker wasn't a bad investment ;) LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 12:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:13pm: I never posted this thread - dummy. Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly. You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts. Go & post on another board - you troll. He just wants to reassure himself that his investment in his fossil fool gas guzzling clunker wasn't a bad investment ;) LOL

Nail,
Longweekend is just a troublemaker who should have been banned long ago.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 12:58pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:37pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:13pm: I never posted this thread - dummy. Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly. You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts. Go & post on another board - you troll. He just wants to reassure himself that his investment in his fossil fool gas guzzling clunker wasn't a bad investment ;) LOL Nail, Longweekend is just a troublemaker who should have been banned long ago.

If they claim the battery can be charged in minutes and someone has verified the claim then what is the problem ??  The claim as stated in the title of the thread is true irrespective of the size of the power source required. Of course nobody is going to use the batteries like  that because of the obvious physical requirements, but it's typical of a dumb arse liberal Luddite to want to can the idea whilst promoting his old rubbish technology that needs constant and expensive maintenance and expensive fuel supply. Somehow the cost of running a fossil fool vehicle is never an issue for the idiot because he is so wealthy :) LOL

True Nail - he's not the brightest candle on the cake.  ;D

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 6:58pm: Please delete wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 12:32pm: There was an announcement last year that in a lab, someone had made a battery wherein, due to the process of manufacture, all the electrons were somehow aligned, thus greatly reducing the resistance. At the time, they made the same sort of claims - recharge a large battery in minutes. And I feel that if the claim of 6 minutes were wrong, it would quickly be exposed. Surely the journalist would have noticed? Ergo, there may be something to this. A) You dont align electrons. you can however align DOMAINS in a material eg a magnetic one. B) you noticed the company was reluctant to describe the power source? der... of course they were. they too would have to admit to needing a 980kw power supply. C) getting 98Kw/hr of charge from anythign less than 98kw/hr of input breaks the fundamental laws of physics which is so obvious the journos didnt feel the need to remind people. D) the battery sounds excellent but no technology allows you to generate electricty out of a vaccum. now it's the power source that is the problem. first it was the range and now it's power source :( what problem will be next ?? :) LOL

among the many claims you have made you have said you are an electrical engineer. surely then, you should have zero trouble understanding how a huge power source is needed. or does that explanation need to be dumbed down evern further?

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 12:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 8:52am: so you finally acknowledge that you nee very high power inputs to charge it?  well that only took you a few days to finally understand it. thats faster than usual. maybe you are actually learning something from your betters! It's not an issue if you don't want to charge it quickly. Do it over night like most normal people would !! Look at the pros - - No ripoff petrol - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance - No oil changes - No oil filter - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of - No transmission to pack up and maintain - No spark plugs to change - No timing belt to change - No fuel filter to change - No radiator and hoses to change - No fuel injectors to pack up - No problems with contaminated fuel - No exhaust pipe to change - No toxic tail pipe emissions - No green house gas emissions - No catalytic converter - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array - Silent operation - No wars fort over oil - No environmentally damaging oil spills The list of benefits is endless ;)

then what is the value of this so-called miracle battery if you DONT charge it quickly? there are a heap of other batteries that charge slowly already. as usual, you really dont understand this issue from a pragmatic perspective.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 1:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:58pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:37pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:13pm: I never posted this thread - dummy. Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly. You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts. Go & post on another board - you troll. He just wants to reassure himself that his investment in his fossil fool gas guzzling clunker wasn't a bad investment ;) LOL Nail, Longweekend is just a troublemaker who should have been banned long ago. If they claim the battery can be charged in minutes and someone has verified the claim then what is the problem ??  The claim as stated in the title of the thread is true irrespective of the size of the power source required. Of course nobody is going to use the batteries like  that because of the obvious physical requirements, but it's typical of a dumb arse liberal Luddite to want to can the idea whilst promoting his old rubbish technology that needs constant and expensive maintenance and expensive fuel supply. Somehow the cost of running a fossil fool vehicle is never an issue for the idiot because he is so wealthy :) LOL

yu really cant read well, can you? i never canned the technology but rather praised it. but rather than being ignorantly supportive as you invariably are I recognise its very practical limitations - something you could also do if you had an critical thinking ability.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:00pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 1:02pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:58pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:37pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:13pm: I never posted this thread - dummy. Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly. You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts. Go & post on another board - you troll. He just wants to reassure himself that his investment in his fossil fool gas guzzling clunker wasn't a bad investment ;) LOL Nail, Longweekend is just a troublemaker who should have been banned long ago. If they claim the battery can be charged in minutes and someone has verified the claim then what is the problem ??  The claim as stated in the title of the thread is true irrespective of the size of the power source required. Of course nobody is going to use the batteries like  that because of the obvious physical requirements, but it's typical of a dumb arse liberal Luddite to want to can the idea whilst promoting his old rubbish technology that needs constant and expensive maintenance and expensive fuel supply. Somehow the cost of running a fossil fool vehicle is never an issue for the idiot because he is so wealthy :) LOL yu really cant read well, can you? i never canned the technology but rather praised it. but rather than being ignorantly supportive as you invariably are I recognise its very practical limitations - something you could also do if you had an critical thinking ability.

those are only limitations to you. Most people will be happy to charge it over night whilst they are sleeping. Also quick charges usually shorten the life of the battery.

The main benefit of this technology is its greater range and recharge cycles which is something that you always complain about. But look at all of the other benefits. Surely this must be a plus :)

- No ripoff petrol
- No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
- No oil changes
- No oil filter
- No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
- No transmission to pack up and maintain
- No spark plugs to change
- No timing belt to change
- No fuel filter to change
- No radiator and hoses to change
- No fuel injectors to pack up
- No problems with contaminated fuel
- No exhaust pipe to change
- No toxic tail pipe emissions
- No green house gas emissions
- No catalytic converter
- Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
- Silent operation
- No wars fort over oil
- No environmentally damaging oil spills
- regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking
- reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 1:57pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:28pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 8:52am: so you finally acknowledge that you nee very high power inputs to charge it?  well that only took you a few days to finally understand it. thats faster than usual. maybe you are actually learning something from your betters! It's not an issue if you don't want to charge it quickly. Do it over night like most normal people would !! Look at the pros - - No ripoff petrol - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance - No oil changes - No oil filter - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of - No transmission to pack up and maintain - No spark plugs to change - No timing belt to change - No fuel filter to change - No radiator and hoses to change - No fuel injectors to pack up - No problems with contaminated fuel - No exhaust pipe to change - No toxic tail pipe emissions - No green house gas emissions - No catalytic converter - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array - Silent operation - No wars fort over oil - No environmentally damaging oil spills The list of benefits is endless ;) then what is the value of this so-called miracle battery if you DONT charge it quickly? there are a heap of other batteries that charge slowly already. as usual, you really dont understand this issue from a pragmatic perspective.

longer range and more re-charge cycles plus all of the above which you refuse to acknowledge as limitations with your gas guzzler ;)

Just imagine an electric car that needed oil changes and expensive petrol to run. What a useless piece of sh.t that would be !!

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:00pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 1:02pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:58pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:37pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:13pm: I never posted this thread - dummy. Nail posted it as an interesting step in technology which when high power outputs  are available one day they could be used to charge it quickly. You just want to always find fault with everything that Nail posts. Go & post on another board - you troll. He just wants to reassure himself that his investment in his fossil fool gas guzzling clunker wasn't a bad investment ;) LOL Nail, Longweekend is just a troublemaker who should have been banned long ago. If they claim the battery can be charged in minutes and someone has verified the claim then what is the problem ??  The claim as stated in the title of the thread is true irrespective of the size of the power source required. Of course nobody is going to use the batteries like  that because of the obvious physical requirements, but it's typical of a dumb arse liberal Luddite to want to can the idea whilst promoting his old rubbish technology that needs constant and expensive maintenance and expensive fuel supply. Somehow the cost of running a fossil fool vehicle is never an issue for the idiot because he is so wealthy :) LOL yu really cant read well, can you? i never canned the technology but rather praised it. but rather than being ignorantly supportive as you invariably are I recognise its very practical limitations - something you could also do if you had an critical thinking ability. those are only limitations to you. Most people will be happy to charge it over night whilst they are sleeping. Also quick charges usually shorten the life of the battery. The main benefit of this technology is its greater range and recharge cycles which is something that you always complain about. But look at all of the other benefits. Surely this must be a plus :) - No ripoff petrol - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance - No oil changes - No oil filter - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of - No transmission to pack up and maintain - No spark plugs to change - No timing belt to change - No fuel filter to change - No radiator and hoses to change - No fuel injectors to pack up - No problems with contaminated fuel - No exhaust pipe to change - No toxic tail pipe emissions - No green house gas emissions - No catalytic converter - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array - Silent operation - No wars fort over oil - No environmentally damaging oil spills

again for the dopes... this battery is BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION special because it can be charged quickly. and why is that important? why do you think they even developed it? BECAUSE THERE IS A NEED. one of the major limitations of EVs is the recharge time - something you choose to ignore but people brighter than you understand. I think the battery is fabulous but it also comes witha severe constraint which will limit it. and those facts dont change just because you dont like oil companiies. that constraint is a LAW OF PHYSICS - something you would know if you had completed high school.

according to that list, the vehicles will be 100% maintenance free.

You're dreaming.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:17pm:

again for the dopes... this battery is BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION special because it can be charged quickly. and why is that important? why do you think they even developed it? BECAUSE THERE IS A NEED. one of the major limitations of EVs is the recharge time - something you choose to ignore but people brighter than you understand. I think the battery is fabulous but it also comes witha severe constraint which will limit it. and those facts dont change just because you dont like oil companiies. that constraint is a LAW OF PHYSICS - something you would know if you had completed high school.

Well maybe you'll just have to wait and see how its done ;)


Quote:

According to DBM Energy’s Chief Operating Officer, Markus Röser, a 98.8-kWh version of its battery can be fully recharged inside of six minutes, although he would not divulge how this was accomplished. “Regarding the kind of charger and the power input, we are not able to give any information yet, due to the fact, that this technology is just in internal use right now,” Röser said. And if trip-to-the-gas-station recharge times are not enough, consider the battery’s range potential. One version with over seven times the energy capacity of the Volt’s battery, and 4.75 times power of the LEAF’s battery, had enough juice to propel a converted Audi A2 test mule for more than 400 miles at highway speeds on a single charge.

... wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:19pm:

according to that list, the vehicles will be 100% maintenance free. You're dreaming.

I never said 100%. You might have to put air in the tyres and some water in the washer bottle but what else would be maintenance issues ??

Well you'll still need new tyres and the occasional brake maintenance but nothing like before ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:

... wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:19pm: according to that list, the vehicles will be 100% maintenance free. You're dreaming. I never said 100%. You might have to put air in the tyres and some water in the washer bottle but what else would be maintenance issues ?? Well you'll still need new tyres and the occasional brake maintenance but nothing like before ;)

Quote:

- No getting ripped off on service and maintenance

One would assume it would require special expertise seeing as how it's not of conventional design, meaning you'd get ripped off MORE.

Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon....

Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea....

Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly...

... wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:33pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:24pm: ... wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:19pm: according to that list, the vehicles will be 100% maintenance free. You're dreaming. I never said 100%. You might have to put air in the tyres and some water in the washer bottle but what else would be maintenance issues ?? Well you'll still need new tyres and the occasional brake maintenance but nothing like before ;) Quote: - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance One would assume it would require special expertise seeing as how it's not of conventional design, meaning you'd get ripped off MORE.

what expertise ?? and what does conventional design mean ?? AN EV is much simpler design and is just essentially a battery, motor controller and motor. There is not much to go wrong.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:37pm:

Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly...

Hi Gizmo,
I think EVs will have to have a loudspeaker in the front putting
out a fake engine noise otherwise they could be dangerous.
Still - that's easy to do.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:37pm:

Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly...

Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;)

I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:40pm:

... wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:24pm: ... wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:19pm: according to that list, the vehicles will be 100% maintenance free. You're dreaming. I never said 100%. You might have to put air in the tyres and some water in the washer bottle but what else would be maintenance issues ?? Well you'll still need new tyres and the occasional brake maintenance but nothing like before ;) Quote: - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance One would assume it would require special expertise seeing as how it's not of conventional design, meaning you'd get ripped off MORE. what expertise ?? and what does conventional design mean ?? AN EV is much simpler design and is just essentially a battery, motor controller and motor. There is not much to go wrong.

youve nevr heard of brakes, suspension, steering, chassis, tyres, internals like aircon etc? and lets not forget that the battery is a consumable item as well.

it might come as a surprise to a non-vehicle owner like you, but half the repair and maintenance costs of a vehicle is not related to the engine at all.

EVs will be cheaper to maintain but you live in cloud-cuckoo land where nothing ever goes wrong.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 2:41pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin.

Ahh you meant road noise....
I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise...

I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV....

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:41pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin. Ahh you meant road noise.... I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise... I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV....

some EVs actually do make some noise for exactly this situation. In fact EV manufacturers ahve had odd problems like loud wipers and stuff liek that because there is no engine noise to mask it.

it wil certainly be good when proper EVs are available that can actually do what we want them to do. but gizmo, I'd be guessing you and I wil be driing them while toenail is still complaining about something else from the rented cump he lives in.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 3:36pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:32pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:41pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin. Ahh you meant road noise.... I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise... I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV.... some EVs actually do make some noise for exactly this situation. In fact EV manufacturers ahve had odd problems like loud wipers and stuff liek that because there is no engine noise to mask it. it wil certainly be good when proper EVs are available that can actually do what we want them to do. but gizmo, I'd be guessing you and I wil be driing them while toenail is still complaining about something else from the rented cump he lives in.

Well given the way the petrol prices are going....I'd certainly buy an EV, for a reasonable price and with a decent range........This German battery sounds like it'll supply a damn good range...

All I'm wondering about is whether the 6 minute charger is going to be an option, and how much it will cost....

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 3:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:36pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:32pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:41pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin. Ahh you meant road noise.... I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise... I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV.... some EVs actually do make some noise for exactly this situation. In fact EV manufacturers ahve had odd problems like loud wipers and stuff liek that because there is no engine noise to mask it. it wil certainly be good when proper EVs are available that can actually do what we want them to do. but gizmo, I'd be guessing you and I wil be driing them while toenail is still complaining about something else from the rented cump he lives in. Well given the way the petrol prices are going....I'd certainly buy an EV, for a reasonable price and with a decent range........This German battery sounds like it'll supply a damn good range... All I'm wondering about is whether the 6 minute charger is going to be an option, and how much it will cost....

he charger is the least of your problems. the 980Kw connection is the real problem. But putting recharge times back into a real-world scenario, a one hour charge would require 98Kw which is still beyond normal use but a three-phase system could provide 50Kw making it a 2 hour charge from dead-flat. if there were charging stations around town and at places along highways, combined with a 400mile range, a 1-2 hour recharge time makes it viable. Mind you the 400mile range is at highway conditions meaning that in traffic and low speeds it is more like 250miles. still pretty good but still needs to be said. The battery looks like a good step forward. If the battery technology improves then EVs have a future. I still wonder about replaceable batteries for distance travel tho. instead of the 2 hour wait - or more - just swap out batteries. I guess tho that that would be considerably more expensive than just charging your own battery. But compared to petrol it will still be a lot cheaper.

Now if they can just make REAL Evs ie real cars with real size and real power for real life driving. that will be interesting to see!

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 4:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:40pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:36pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:32pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:41pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin. Ahh you meant road noise.... I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise... I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV.... some EVs actually do make some noise for exactly this situation. In fact EV manufacturers ahve had odd problems like loud wipers and stuff liek that because there is no engine noise to mask it. it wil certainly be good when proper EVs are available that can actually do what we want them to do. but gizmo, I'd be guessing you and I wil be driing them while toenail is still complaining about something else from the rented cump he lives in. Well given the way the petrol prices are going....I'd certainly buy an EV, for a reasonable price and with a decent range........This German battery sounds like it'll supply a damn good range... All I'm wondering about is whether the 6 minute charger is going to be an option, and how much it will cost.... he charger is the least of your problems. the 980Kw connection is the real problem. But putting recharge times back into a real-world scenario, a one hour charge would require 98Kw which is still beyond normal use but a three-phase system could provide 50Kw making it a 2 hour charge from dead-flat. if there were charging stations around town and at places along highways, combined with a 400mile range, a 1-2 hour recharge time makes it viable. Mind you the 400mile range is at highway conditions meaning that in traffic and low speeds it is more like 250miles. still pretty good but still needs to be said. The battery looks like a good step forward. If the battery technology improves then EVs have a future. I still wonder about replaceable batteries for distance travel tho. instead of the 2 hour wait - or more - just swap out batteries. I guess tho that that would be considerably more expensive than just charging your own battery. But compared to petrol it will still be a lot cheaper. Now if they can just make REAL Evs ie real cars with real size and real power for real life driving. that will be interesting to see!

I don't know...an overnight charge, or even an 6-8 hour charge at a parking garage would still be acceptable....

With a family car, I'd imagine the range might be a little lower (due to curb weight) but even so, a 250 mile range for something commodore/falcon sized would still be great...250 miles is still 402 kilometres

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:40pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:40pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:36pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:32pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:41pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin. Ahh you meant road noise.... I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise... I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV.... some EVs actually do make some noise for exactly this situation. In fact EV manufacturers ahve had odd problems like loud wipers and stuff liek that because there is no engine noise to mask it. it wil certainly be good when proper EVs are available that can actually do what we want them to do. but gizmo, I'd be guessing you and I wil be driing them while toenail is still complaining about something else from the rented cump he lives in. Well given the way the petrol prices are going....I'd certainly buy an EV, for a reasonable price and with a decent range........This German battery sounds like it'll supply a damn good range... All I'm wondering about is whether the 6 minute charger is going to be an option, and how much it will cost.... he charger is the least of your problems. the 980Kw connection is the real problem. But putting recharge times back into a real-world scenario, a one hour charge would require 98Kw which is still beyond normal use but a three-phase system could provide 50Kw making it a 2 hour charge from dead-flat. if there were charging stations around town and at places along highways, combined with a 400mile range, a 1-2 hour recharge time makes it viable. Mind you the 400mile range is at highway conditions meaning that in traffic and low speeds it is more like 250miles. still pretty good but still needs to be said. The battery looks like a good step forward. If the battery technology improves then EVs have a future. I still wonder about replaceable batteries for distance travel tho. instead of the 2 hour wait - or more - just swap out batteries. I guess tho that that would be considerably more expensive than just charging your own battery. But compared to petrol it will still be a lot cheaper. Now if they can just make REAL Evs ie real cars with real size and real power for real life driving. that will be interesting to see! I don't know...an overnight charge, or even an 6-8 hour charge at a parking garage would still be acceptable.... With a family car, I'd imagine the range might be a little lower (due to curb weight) but even so, a 250 mile range for something commodore/falcon sized would still be great...250 miles is still 402 kilometres

aggreed. This battery - assuming it is affordable - looks like quite a step up. and battery technology has been the biggest of the problems. size, range and recharge times are all pretty much just battery issues.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 3:36pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:32pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:41pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin. Ahh you meant road noise.... I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise... I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV.... some EVs actually do make some noise for exactly this situation. In fact EV manufacturers ahve had odd problems like loud wipers and stuff liek that because there is no engine noise to mask it. it wil certainly be good when proper EVs are available that can actually do what we want them to do. but gizmo, I'd be guessing you and I wil be driing them while toenail is still complaining about something else from the rented cump he lives in.

you're the one doing the complaining moron and you'll be the last to own an EV because it will never meet your ridiculous requirements. Like I said just stick to taking it up the arse at the fool bowser because you deserve to get ripped off with your Ford gas guzzling museum piece.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 4:40pm:

he charger is the least of your problems. the 980Kw connection is the real problem. But putting recharge times back into a real-world scenario, a one hour charge would require 98Kw which is still beyond normal use but a three-phase system could provide 50Kw making it a 2 hour charge from dead-flat. if there were charging stations around town and at places along highways, combined with a 400mile range, a 1-2 hour recharge time makes it viable. Mind you the 400mile range is at highway conditions meaning that in traffic and low speeds it is more like 250miles. still pretty good but still needs to be said. The battery looks like a good step forward. If the battery technology improves then EVs have a future. I still wonder about replaceable batteries for distance travel tho. instead of the 2 hour wait - or more - just swap out batteries. I guess tho that that would be considerably more expensive than just charging your own battery. But compared to petrol it will still be a lot cheaper. Now if they can just make REAL Evs ie real cars with real size and real power for real life driving. that will be interesting to see!

They don't have to make EV's to suit your stupid needs to be useful to most people. An EV that does 100 k's per charge is still more than adequate for daily commutes in Melbourne peak hour traffic. Why don't you get out of that backward county of yours and come to Melbourne and drive that gas guzzling bit of Ford junk of yours through Melbourne peak hour traffic and then tell us how useful an EV with a 100 k range would be. You'd be lucky if you didn't empty half a tank getting across the city in that ford poo heap of yours.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 11:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:36pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:32pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:41pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 2:37pm: Hopefully they get the battery into mass production soon.... Although, I'm not all that sure that the 'silent operation' thing is all that great an idea.... Think of the pedestrian accident rate..If you can't hear it coming, there's a huge potential for people stepping in front of EVs, in shopping areas particularly... Yes but no major problems to add sound effects to it. That's the least of your worries ;) I was talking in terms of noise inside the cabin. Ahh you meant road noise.... I was thinking of the old english electric trolley buses..The called them silent killers, they ended up adding something to them to make noise... I doubt it'd be hard to do the same for an EV.... some EVs actually do make some noise for exactly this situation. In fact EV manufacturers ahve had odd problems like loud wipers and stuff liek that because there is no engine noise to mask it. it wil certainly be good when proper EVs are available that can actually do what we want them to do. but gizmo, I'd be guessing you and I wil be driing them while toenail is still complaining about something else from the rented cump he lives in. you're the one doing the complaining moron and you'll be the last to own an EV because it will never meet your ridiculous requirements. Like I said just stick to taking it up the arse at the fool bowser because you deserve to get ripped off with your Ford gas guzzling museum piece.

you use the same totally fabricated argument every time. dont you get any NEW lies sometime losernail? the reast of us can have a balanced debate on EVs discussing pros and cons but no... not you. it is always 100% your way or you erupt with abuse and accusation and then fabricate the rest. and my 'ridiculous requirements' are the same requirements the rest of is - ie car owners - put on the cars we own NOW - that they do the job we demand of them.

you are not only an idiot but you are getting pathological about it.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

I don't know...an overnight charge, or even an 6-8 hour charge at a parking garage would still be acceptable.... With a family car, I'd imagine the range might be a little lower (due to curb weight) but even so, a 250 mile range for something commodore/falcon sized would still be great...250 miles is still 402 kilometres

It's got to be all or nothing with badweekend otherwise he wouldn't have anything to whinge about but somehow he forgets about the other following benefits of EV technology compared to his gas guzzling bit of unreliable crap. Let me re-iterate the benefits of EV's:-

- No ripoff petrol
- No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
- No oil changes
- No oil filter
- No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
- No expensive transmission to pack up and maintain
- No spark plugs to change
- No timing belt to change
- No burnt out valves or piston rings
- No fuel filter to change
- No radiator and hoses to change
- No expensive fuel injectors to pack up or maintain
- No problems with contaminated fuel
- No exhaust pipe to change
- No toxic tail pipe emissions
- No green house gas emissions
- No catalytic converter
- Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
- Silent operation
- No wars fort over oil
- No environmentally damaging oil spills
- regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking
- reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking

Somehow badweekend doesn't believe that any of these are issues because the dumb moron is used to being screwed on these items. He likes being screwed on these things because it makes money for all of his mates in the auto industry :(

Just imagine owning a mobile phone that need needed an oil change after every 200 phone calls. How f.cked up would that be as a modern piece of technology :(

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 11:45pm:

you use the same totally fabricated argument every time. dont you get any NEW lies sometime losernail? the reast of us can have a balanced debate on EVs discussing pros and cons but no... not you. it is always 100% your way or you erupt with abuse and accusation and then fabricate the rest. and my 'ridiculous requirements' are the same requirements the rest of is - ie car owners - put on the cars we own NOW - that they do the job we demand of them. you are not only an idiot but you are getting pathological about it.

you are missing the point as usual. It's not about designing an EV for your use only. Other people have completely different requirements to you. AN EV that has a 100K range per charge is more than adequate for people who travel no more than 40- k's per day. Somehow you believe in your own twisted mind that nobody should be able to own and use this EV simply because it doesn't suit your stupid needs.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 11:53pm:

It's got to be all or nothing with badweekend otherwise he wouldn't have anything to whinge about but somehow he forgets about the other following benefits of EV technology compared to his gas guzzling bit of unreliable crap. Let me re-iterate the benefits of EV's:- - No ripoff petrol - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance - No oil changes - No oil filter - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of - No expensive transmission to pack up and maintain - No spark plugs to change - No timing belt to change - No burnt out valves or piston rings - No fuel filter to change - No radiator and hoses to change - No expensive fuel injectors to pack up or maintain - No problems with contaminated fuel - No exhaust pipe to change - No toxic tail pipe emissions - No green house gas emissions - No catalytic converter - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array - Silent operation - No wars fort over oil - No environmentally damaging oil spills - regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking - reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking Somehow badweekend doesn't believe that any of these are issues because the dumb moron is used to being screwed on these items. He likes being screwed on these things because it makes money for all of his mates in the auto industry :( Just imagine owning a mobile phone that need needed an oil change after every 200 phone calls. How f.cked up would that be as a modern piece of technology :(

None of which you are ever going to know about, because you will never get off your @rse and buy one, just continue to crap on about it.

You are the only person I know that continually goes on and on about something, whinging about how it's better than everything else, but has no intention of getting one.

Just man up and buy one already, it's getting really old.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 11:44pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:40pm: he charger is the least of your problems. the 980Kw connection is the real problem. But putting recharge times back into a real-world scenario, a one hour charge would require 98Kw which is still beyond normal use but a three-phase system could provide 50Kw making it a 2 hour charge from dead-flat. if there were charging stations around town and at places along highways, combined with a 400mile range, a 1-2 hour recharge time makes it viable. Mind you the 400mile range is at highway conditions meaning that in traffic and low speeds it is more like 250miles. still pretty good but still needs to be said. The battery looks like a good step forward. If the battery technology improves then EVs have a future. I still wonder about replaceable batteries for distance travel tho. instead of the 2 hour wait - or more - just swap out batteries. I guess tho that that would be considerably more expensive than just charging your own battery. But compared to petrol it will still be a lot cheaper. Now if they can just make REAL Evs ie real cars with real size and real power for real life driving. that will be interesting to see! They don't have to make EV's to suit your stupid needs to be useful to most people. An EV that does 100 k's per charge is still more than adequate for daily commutes in Melbourne peak hour traffic. Why don't you get out of that backward county of yours and come to Melbourne and drive that gas guzzling bit of Ford junk of yours through Melbourne peak hour traffic and then tell us how useful an EV with a 100 k range would be. You'd be lucky if you didn't empty half a tank getting across the city in that ford poo heap of yours.

And what about all the people who don't do daily commutes in Melbourne peak hour traffic???

Has it occurred to you, Nails, that THIS is the reason there are no locally made EVs??? And it's why Ford and Holden don't make them yet....there just isn't a big enough market for EVs...yet??

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 6:07am:

None of which you are ever going to know about, because you will never get off your @rse and buy one, just continue to crap on about it. You are the only person I know that continually goes on and on about something, whinging about how it's better than everything else, but has no intention of getting one. Just man up and buy one already, it's getting really old.

why don't you just piss off. You have got nothing to offer this debate as usual.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 7:34am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 11:44pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:40pm: he charger is the least of your problems. the 980Kw connection is the real problem. But putting recharge times back into a real-world scenario, a one hour charge would require 98Kw which is still beyond normal use but a three-phase system could provide 50Kw making it a 2 hour charge from dead-flat. if there were charging stations around town and at places along highways, combined with a 400mile range, a 1-2 hour recharge time makes it viable. Mind you the 400mile range is at highway conditions meaning that in traffic and low speeds it is more like 250miles. still pretty good but still needs to be said. The battery looks like a good step forward. If the battery technology improves then EVs have a future. I still wonder about replaceable batteries for distance travel tho. instead of the 2 hour wait - or more - just swap out batteries. I guess tho that that would be considerably more expensive than just charging your own battery. But compared to petrol it will still be a lot cheaper. Now if they can just make REAL Evs ie real cars with real size and real power for real life driving. that will be interesting to see! They don't have to make EV's to suit your stupid needs to be useful to most people. An EV that does 100 k's per charge is still more than adequate for daily commutes in Melbourne peak hour traffic. Why don't you get out of that backward county of yours and come to Melbourne and drive that gas guzzling bit of Ford junk of yours through Melbourne peak hour traffic and then tell us how useful an EV with a 100 k range would be. You'd be lucky if you didn't empty half a tank getting across the city in that ford poo heap of yours. And what about all the people who don't do daily commutes in Melbourne peak hour traffic??? Has it occurred to you, Nails, that THIS is the reason there are no locally made EVs??? And it's why Ford and Holden don't make them yet....there just isn't a big enough market for EVs...yet??

There's no market simply because people don't know about them because they can't buy them and can't even drive them.

and when the arse drops out of the large car market because people don't want to pay to fill them up so where exactly do you think the market will be heading as the cost of fuel keeps rising ?? Do you think people will be keen to pay $2-3 per liter at the pump whilst blowing it out of their exhaust pipe in peak hour stop-start traffic ??

You must be a complete bone head if you think the public will wear the cost of that old technology.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 16th, 2011 at 7:34am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 11:44pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:40pm: he charger is the least of your problems. the 980Kw connection is the real problem. But putting recharge times back into a real-world scenario, a one hour charge would require 98Kw which is still beyond normal use but a three-phase system could provide 50Kw making it a 2 hour charge from dead-flat. if there were charging stations around town and at places along highways, combined with a 400mile range, a 1-2 hour recharge time makes it viable. Mind you the 400mile range is at highway conditions meaning that in traffic and low speeds it is more like 250miles. still pretty good but still needs to be said. The battery looks like a good step forward. If the battery technology improves then EVs have a future. I still wonder about replaceable batteries for distance travel tho. instead of the 2 hour wait - or more - just swap out batteries. I guess tho that that would be considerably more expensive than just charging your own battery. But compared to petrol it will still be a lot cheaper. Now if they can just make REAL Evs ie real cars with real size and real power for real life driving. that will be interesting to see! They don't have to make EV's to suit your stupid needs to be useful to most people. An EV that does 100 k's per charge is still more than adequate for daily commutes in Melbourne peak hour traffic. Why don't you get out of that backward county of yours and come to Melbourne and drive that gas guzzling bit of Ford junk of yours through Melbourne peak hour traffic and then tell us how useful an EV with a 100 k range would be. You'd be lucky if you didn't empty half a tank getting across the city in that ford poo heap of yours. And what about all the people who don't do daily commutes in Melbourne peak hour traffic??? Has it occurred to you, Nails, that THIS is the reason there are no locally made EVs??? And it's why Ford and Holden don't make them yet....there just isn't a big enough market for EVs...yet?? There's no market simply because people don't know about them because they can't buy them and can't even drive them. and when the arse drops out of the large car market because people don't want to pay to fill them up so where exactly do you think the market will be heading as the cost of fuel keeps rising ?? Do you think people will be keen to pay $2-3 per liter at the pump whilst blowing it out of their exhaust pipe in peak hour stop-start traffic ?? You must be a complete bone head if you think the public will wear the cost of that old technology.

The arse has pretty much dropped out of the large car market already nails....That's why there are so many hybrids around now....

It's a more logical choice for a large section of the Australian city population.....most of the benefits of an EV, with the 'back up' of a petrol engine for long distance travel...

Once a true, long distance, mid-sized or better, equivalent priced EV hits the ground, that might change towards pure EV, but it hasn't happened yet.....

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 4:33pm:

The arse has pretty much dropped out of the large car market already nails....That's why there are so many hybrids around now.... It's a more logical choice for a large section of the Australian city population.....most of the benefits of an EV, with the 'back up' of a petrol engine for long distance travel... Once a true, long distance, mid-sized or better, equivalent priced EV hits the ground, that might change towards pure EV, but it hasn't happened yet.....

So if someone only commutes to work each day in peak hour traffic and does no more than 60 k's round trip they should still wait for an EV that has a range that allows them to drive from Melbourne to Sydney ;) In the meanwhile they should be prepared to pay $1.50 to $2.00 per liter at the fool bowser whilst they wait for the proverbial EV that gets them from Melbourne to Sydney on one charge even though they would never drive that far. Yes that makes perfect sense doesn't it :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 6:08pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 16th, 2011 at 4:33pm: The arse has pretty much dropped out of the large car market already nails....That's why there are so many hybrids around now.... It's a more logical choice for a large section of the Australian city population.....most of the benefits of an EV, with the 'back up' of a petrol engine for long distance travel... Once a true, long distance, mid-sized or better, equivalent priced EV hits the ground, that might change towards pure EV, but it hasn't happened yet..... So if someone only commutes to work each day in peak hour traffic and does no more than 60 k's round trip they should still wait for an EV that has a range that allows them to drive from Melbourne to Sydney ;) In the meanwhile they should be prepared to pay $1.50 to $2.00 per liter at the fool bowser whilst they wait for the proverbial EV that gets them from Melbourne to Sydney on one charge even though they would never drive that far. Yes that makes perfect sense doesn't it :D LOL

No, 'if someone only commutes to work each day in peak hour traffic and does no more than 60 k's round trip' they should probably buy one of the EVs that are available 'NOW'...If, however they are like 90% of the people in Australia....and they 'commute' 120 or 150 k's per day..maybe they should buy a hybrid...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 16th, 2011 at 6:08pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 16th, 2011 at 4:33pm: The arse has pretty much dropped out of the large car market already nails....That's why there are so many hybrids around now.... It's a more logical choice for a large section of the Australian city population.....most of the benefits of an EV, with the 'back up' of a petrol engine for long distance travel... Once a true, long distance, mid-sized or better, equivalent priced EV hits the ground, that might change towards pure EV, but it hasn't happened yet..... So if someone only commutes to work each day in peak hour traffic and does no more than 60 k's round trip they should still wait for an EV that has a range that allows them to drive from Melbourne to Sydney ;) In the meanwhile they should be prepared to pay $1.50 to $2.00 per liter at the fool bowser whilst they wait for the proverbial EV that gets them from Melbourne to Sydney on one charge even though they would never drive that far. Yes that makes perfect sense doesn't it :D LOL No, 'if someone only commutes to work each day in peak hour traffic and does no more than 60 k's round trip' they should probably buy one of the EVs that are available 'NOW'...If, however they are like 90% of the people in Australia....and they 'commute' 120 or 150 k's per day..maybe they should buy a hybrid...

rubbish it's 90% of people who commute less than 60 k's per day. You've got it the wrong way around as usual.

longweekend my 'shares' are in the common sense and logic that is so often missing on here.

My apology, it was just tongue in cheek, but your reasoning about the comparision with water has some holes in it, because you can fill a swimming pool in 6 minutes if the pipe is large enough and the pressure is also high.
I can tell you from experience, that I used to fill a tender of a steam engine with 40,000 litres of water in about ten minutes.
If it can be done electronically, I'am not knowledgable enough to answer.

hawil wrote on Apr 17^th, 2011 at 1:38pm:

longweekend my 'shares' are in the common sense and logic that is so often missing on here. My apology, it was just tongue in cheek, but your reasoning about the comparision with water has some holes in it, because you can fill a swimming pool in 6 minutes if the pipe is large enough and the pressure is also high. I can tell you from experience, that I used to fill a tender of a steam engine with 40,000 litres of water in about ten minutes. If it can be done electronically, I'am not knowledgable enough to answer.

The article specifies that it can be done but they don't disclose how they do it. Of course that is not enough for badweekend who is not happy unless he can find anything to bag about the threat of electric cars taking the place of his fossil fool dinosaurs.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 18^th, 2011 at 12:14pm:

hawil wrote on Apr 17th, 2011 at 1:38pm: longweekend my 'shares' are in the common sense and logic that is so often missing on here. My apology, it was just tongue in cheek, but your reasoning about the comparision with water has some holes in it, because you can fill a swimming pool in 6 minutes if the pipe is large enough and the pressure is also high. I can tell you from experience, that I used to fill a tender of a steam engine with 40,000 litres of water in about ten minutes. If it can be done electronically, I'am not knowledgable enough to answer. The article specifies that it can be done but they don't disclose how they do it. Of course that is not enough for badweekend who is not happy unless he can find anything to bag about the threat of electric cars taking the place of his fossil fool dinosaurs.

Quite right Nail,
The sooner he gets that clunker off the road the better.