http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/new-detention-centre-to-open-in-tasmania/story-fn59niix-1226033937113

INDEPENDENT MP Andrew Wilkie has hit out at plans to open a new immigration detention centre in southern Tasmania, saying he is opposed to keeping people behind barbed wire.

The key crossbencher, whose support is critical for Ms Gillard's minority government, was only told about the 400-bed centre by Immigration Minister Chris Bowen this morning - hours before it was announced.

He said he would hold Labor to its commitment that the centre only be temporary.

The temporary centre will be opened next month at a defence facility at Pontville, about 30km north of Hobart, to ease pressure on Christmas Island.

The facility - to be upgraded at a cost of $15 million - will initially accommodate 250 asylum-seekers, expanding to house 400 single men.

Mr Bowen said the centre would consist of army dormitory buildings, with temporary buildings brought in as needed.

He said the Pontville site was a short-term response while work was completed on detention accommodation at Wickham Point in Darwin, and at Northam in Western Australia.

“The government has acknowledged the pressures on our detention facilities and this new accommodation will help to relieve the strain on the system,” Mr Bowen said.

“Following the incidents and loss of detention capacity at Christmas Island, Pontville presents an appropriate contingency option for detention accommodation.”

He said the standard of accommodation would be in line with that at other detention centres.

Mr Wilkie said the establishment of the centre was further evidence the government's asylum-seeker policy was in disrepair.

“I have long opposed mandatory detention anywhere and this facility will be no different,” Mr Wilkie said in a statement.

“These are people who have knocked on Australia's door seeking asylum and it is wrong to cage them behind wire, whether it be in Pontville or Christmas Island.

“I'll be holding the Immigration Minister, Chris Bowen, to his commitment that this centre only be temporary.”

Mr Wilkie called for a more sophisticated solution that addressed problems in the source countries from which the asylum-seekers were fleeing, and in the transit countries through which they passed to come to Australia.

Tasmanian Premier Lara Giddings also said she had written to Mr Bowen seeking assurances about the treatment of asylum-seekers at Pontville.

Ms Giddings said she was concerned about how the asylum-seekers would be looked after during the region's notoriously cold winters.

“I want to ensure that the principles that are articulated by the commonwealth government in relation to the care of asylum seekers,” she told reporters in Hobart.

“If there are to be detainees there on commonwealth land, I want to ensure that those detainees have adequate heating, clothing and any other needs they may have.”

Opposition Immigration spokesman Scott Morrison said the opening of a temporary facility in Tasmania represented a deepening crisis in Australia's detention network.

He cast doubt over whether the centre at Pontville would be temporary.

“Labor has now announced 5,300 new detention beds since the last election, covering all points of the compass. The only place they are not building a detention centre is in East Timor, which is where they promised to build one,” Mr Morrison said.

“The government has a rolling crisis in their detention network, which has forced them to embark on a `building the detention centre revolution' all around the country.”

Liberal senator Eric Abetz likened the detention centre to resuming the transportation of convicts to Van Diemen's Land.

“The Tasmanian people have a right to ask, 'didn't we get rid of transportation to Van Diemen's Land quite some time ago?',” he told reporters in Hobart.

“It shows that the government has lost control and Hobart has become the frontier of detention facilities.”

The Gillard government has opened more than 5000 new detention places since the 2010 election.

This includes major new or expanded facilities in Western Australia at Leonora and Curtin, at Inverbrackie in South Australia and at the Scherger RAAF base at Weipa, in far north Queensland.

The Immigration Department is dramatically downgrading the capacity of Christmas Island after mass escapes, rioting and fires led the Australian Federal Police to take control of the centre last month.

The total number of asylum-seekers on the island - including a family camp - will be slashed from a peak of more than 3000 last December to 1280.

The facility - to be upgraded at a cost of $15 million - will initially accommodate 250 asylum-seekers, expanding to house 400 single men.

Mr Bowen said the centre would consist of army dormitory buildings, with temporary buildings brought in as needed.

He said the Pontville site was a short-term response while work was completed on detention accommodation at Wickham Point in Darwin, and at Northam in Western Australia.....



Maqqua,  I thought it was only a 'measly' $5 billion,  and it is only to be used for about 6 months according to this evening's news reports.

Great budgeting by the government I don't think.    Imagine what a hospital or The Salvo's or Vinnies could do with that money.  How many Street Kids could Chris Riley save with that amount of money ?  It seems that needy Aussies don't count with the mob in Canberra.

nich

Gillard warned we can expect a tough cost cutting budget coming up

I guess we can see where this money is going

Along with all the other wastes they have incurred not including the NBN has now ballooned out past the $36B

Labor can't waste taxpayers money fast enough can they.
Their border protection/boat people strategy has collapsed completely, and they blunder from one major crisis situation to another blowing money away like is was straw.
Now they want to fluff away a cool $15 million just as a short term fix only.
How much more is Labor going to have to allocate to this failed policy in the upcoming Budget, only to see a lesser amount arrive in the States in terms of GST revenue for education, health, roads, water and public housing that Australians require.
Because the idiots are going to take the money from 'somewhere' to keep propping up this failure.
The sooner these incompetents are thrown out on their arses the better.
They really are a bunch of clueless witless Magoos.
"Oh Labor, you've done it again".

It was great to hear that the Mayor was so excited about the idea, and has some actually good ideas about integration - something that is so desperately required for immigration to work.

It was also interesting to note that most people who were interviewed on the news and were against the idea were sporting a fantastic mullet, had a slab of Red Bitter over their shoulder and a can in their hand.  

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:03am:

something that is so desperately required for immigration to work.

WHat is desperately needed for immigration to work is people who are wanted here to be immigrating.

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:11am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:03am: something that is so desperately required for immigration to work. WHat is desperately needed for immigration to work is people who are wanted here to be immigrating.

I think what is truly needed is a new haircut, Soren ;)

People have a human right to seek asylum - you need to get this through your thick skull and into your frontal lobe. And when people gain asylum, which they have every right to do, it is up to everyone to create a harmonious society - hence it's not just that person's responsibility to integrate - it's the responsibility of all of us.  The Mayor Tony Foster has the right idea.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:21am:

Soren wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:11am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:03am: something that is so desperately required for immigration to work. WHat is desperately needed for immigration to work is people who are wanted here to be immigrating. I think what is truly needed is a new haircut, Soren ;) People have a human right to seek asylum - you need to get this through your thick skull and into your frontal lobe. And when people gain asylum, which they have every right to do, it is up to everyone to create a harmonious society - hence it's not just that person's responsibility to integrate - it's the responsibility of all of us.  The Mayor Tony Foster has the right idea.

These people are not seeking protection. They are seeking immigraration outcomes (settlement) that they otherwise could not obtain.
NOT THE SAME THING.
If they wanted merely to be safe from persecution they would stop when they are safe. They are safe in Indonesia, Malaysia. They are continuing on their way, throwing away their passports and paying people smugglers because they want to settle.
The Refugee Convention has never ever been about resettlement. It is about protection. But these people are deliberately forcing AUstralia to settle them. If this was not so, they would be very happy with a 3 year temporary protection visa. That would gove them protection while the storm passes back home.
Are they interested in that?? Like hell they are.

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:57am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:21am: Soren wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:11am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:03am: something that is so desperately required for immigration to work. WHat is desperately needed for immigration to work is people who are wanted here to be immigrating. I think what is truly needed is a new haircut, Soren ;) People have a human right to seek asylum - you need to get this through your thick skull and into your frontal lobe. And when people gain asylum, which they have every right to do, it is up to everyone to create a harmonious society - hence it's not just that person's responsibility to integrate - it's the responsibility of all of us.  The Mayor Tony Foster has the right idea. These people are not seeking protection. They are seeking immigraration outcomes (settlement) that they otherwise could not obtain. NOT THE SAME THING. If they wanted merely to be safe from persecution they would stop when they are safe. They are safe in Indonesia, Malaysia. They are continuing on their way, throwing away their passports and paying people smugglers because they want to settle. The Refugee Convention has never ever been about resettlement. It is about protection. But these people are deliberately forcing AUstralia to settle them. If this was not so, they would be very happy with a 3 year temporary protection visa. That would gove them protection while the storm passes back home. Are they interested in that?? Like hell they are.

9 out of 10 are genuine refugees.  You need to once again pass this through your thick skull and into your frontal lobe. I know it's pretty thick, but you need to try.  For your own sake.

AS for temporary protection visas, what a load of extreme crap.  "Yes, come set up your life ... oh wait... now go away!"

BTW: for your own knowledge: Malaysia is not a Refugee Convention signatory.  Just for your own knowledge.  And as for Indonesia, considering even the worse treatment that refugees receive there I can completely understand why someone would try to bypass the country.  Have you seen their camps? Refugees are not criminals - they don't deserve to be treated like they are. Otherwise we should chuck bigots and bogans into the same circumstances as anything, on the scales of humanity, bigots and bogans rank about ... 0.1.

Asylum is not settlement. Being a refugee is not the same as being a migrant.
This is an immigration scam. These people are taught what to say and there is no other independent verification of the truth of what they say.

They are not good enough to migrate on merit. They will bribe their way to AUstralia, say the requisite things, get settled and bring out the rest of the unskilled, ineligible to migrate village under family re-union.

I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention.

The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments.

Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want.

After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right).

wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:24am:

I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention. The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments. Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want. After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right).

I don't remember you ever mentioning a referendum, but what I'll say is bring it on.  Regardless of our referendum history, I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that it will resolve in the negative because most Australians don't see an issue with refugees - it is just the bigots and bogans, who are the ones out in the public drinking when news cameras are rolling and reporters ask for their opinions.

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:18am:

Asylum is not settlement. Being a refugee is not the same as being a migrant. This is an immigration scam. These people are taught what to say and there is no other independent verification of the truth of what they say. They are not good enough to migrate on merit. They will bribe their way to AUstralia, say the requisite things, get settled and bring out the rest of the unskilled, ineligible to migrate village under family re-union.

Refugee assessors are highly skilled, and I can assure you that when my sister was working for the UN and assessing refugee claims, she was rejecting 8 out of 10.  So don't go telling me that there is this mass conspiracy and so on.  Stop reading high right-wing propoganda and actually worry about what can be substantiated.  It makes you look like a total nut.  Are you a total nut?

As for asylum, it is re-settlement.  Now you may sit there with your bigoted views and claim that these people should be sent back; I say that resettlement means allow the person to move on with their life and settle themselves. At the end of the day there is no harm to me. There is no harm to the economy. And there is no harm to this country.  

In fact, the harm to this country is in REAL ISSUES, such as our growing bogan population.  Go look at Illawarra, and the fact that 193 kids are getting removed from their homes this year. Last time I checked Illawarra did not have a huge immigrant population.  THAT IS A REAL ISSUE.  Not this. So move on and get out of your bigotism.

gillard is flying illegals to WA at our expense.
now also to Tassie at our expense.

the alp invited them here, at our expense.

I don't want them, I did not invite them.
you leftys fly them back  home or house them at your house at your expense.

The greens in tassie should be over the moon with the idea that the reffos are going to their part of the woods. It'll be an added boost to their basket case economy as well.

So now that tassie is a hot bed of green politics they should be happy to take  take ALL of Australia's reffos and look after them the way they see fit and proper.  ;D

Come on brown and your fellow taswegians, you know you want to show us how it's done

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:39am:

gillard is flying illegals to WA at our expense. now also to Tassie at our expense. the alp invited them here, at our expense. I don't want them, I did not invite them. you leftys fly them back  home or house them at your house at your expense.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's a good thing that the public purse isn't just in the hands of you sprint, and what you decide to do with it.  You may not want, others do.

wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:24am:

I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention. The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments. Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want. After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right).

No need for a referendum, we didn't have one about signing it, Menzies the founder of the LIBERAL PARTY signed it with no consultation from the people.
So, if Abbott wants to ignore it, he can withdraw from it, IF he ever becomes PM, which is very unlikely. I'll bet you he doesn't have the balls to do it though.

wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:24am:

I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention. The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments. Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want. After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right).

Or alternatively dropping our annual refugee intake from 13,000 to another number.
Some would be concerned that dropping this figure would impact on us in some way.
But it wont as the intake numbers are set by the individual countries who are signatories to the Refugee Convention 1951.
New Zealand's refugee intake is 500 per year, and who cares or talks about that.
But nothing can change unfortunately while the government has a failed border protection policy in force, and is so inept and incompetent.
Their is no disincentive for foreign criminal gangs to smuggle people here.
The Navy's Border Protection Command should change their name, their protecting nothing.
They are a glorified overpaid concierge service providing escort to Australia.
Some criminal boat crews are back here on their second voyage after first spending a short stay in our lovely 5 star prison with free internet, free board, free medical, free English lessons, TV and 3 square meals a day in total consideration of their cultural and ethnicity, and then being flown home at our expense.
First class I hope.
After all, we don't want to offend the little possums. :)

nichy wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 8:56pm:

The facility - to be upgraded at a cost of $15 million - will initially accommodate 250 asylum-seekers, expanding to house 400 single men..[/b]

Building the detention centre revolution....

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:49am:

Some criminal boat crews are back here on their second voyage after first spending a short stay in our lovely 5 star prison with free internet, free board, free medical, free English lessons, TV and 3 square meals a day in total consideration of their cultural and ethnicity, and then being flown home at our expense. First class I hope. After all, we don't want to offend the little possums. :)

Which brings me back to another issue (which I've also mentioned in the past)... What happens to the boats themselves? Are they being destroyed after they arrive?

Please don't tell me they're being sent back to Indonesia to pick up more loads of illegals to bring here.

Hmm, maybe someone here in Australia is making lots of money out of refurbishing and resupplying them before they go back to Indonesia to pick up the next load?

With this bumbling, incompetent Federal Government, nothing would surprise me.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:49am:

wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:24am: I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention. The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments. Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want. After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right). Or alternatively dropping our annual refugee intake from 13,000 to another number. Some would be concerned that dropping this figure would impact on us in some way. But it wont as the intake numbers are set by the individual countries who are signatories to the Refugee Convention 1951. New Zealand's refugee intake is 500 per year, and who cares or talks about that. But nothing can change unfortunately while the government has a failed border protection policy in force, and is so inept and incompetent. Their is no disincentive for foreign criminal gangs to smuggle people here. The Navy's Border Protection Command should change their name, their protecting nothing. They are a glorified overpaid concierge service providing escort to Australia. Some criminal boat crews are back here on their second voyage after first spending a short stay in our lovely 5 star prison with free internet, free board, free medical, free English lessons, TV and 3 square meals a day in total consideration of their cultural and ethnicity, and then being flown home at our expense. First class I hope. After all, we don't want to offend the little possums. :)

Right...and how exactly will dropping the intake assist in stopping the inflow again?

If anything, considering most people who get on a boat are doing so because they've fled an Indonesian refugee camp, we need to increase our number of intake, perhaps doubling it.  That way we can atleast speed up the processing and reduce this so called "queue."  After all, last time I checked you don't stop "queue jumpers" by reducing the number of aisles.

Quote:

What happens to the boats themselves? Are they being destroyed after they arrive?

Have you ever been to Darwin????????????
They store them in the harbour for a big bon fire.

wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:49am: Some criminal boat crews are back here on their second voyage after first spending a short stay in our lovely 5 star prison with free internet, free board, free medical, free English lessons, TV and 3 square meals a day in total consideration of their cultural and ethnicity, and then being flown home at our expense. First class I hope. After all, we don't want to offend the little possums. :) Which brings me back to another issue (which I've also mentioned in the past)... What happens to the boats themselves? Are they being destroyed after they arrive? Please don't tell me they're being sent back to Indonesia to pick up more loads of illegals to bring here. Hmm, maybe someone here in Australia is making lots of money out of refurbishing and resupplying them before they go back to Indonesia to pick up the next load? With this bumbling, incompetent Federal Government, nothing would surprise me.

No, the boats are burnt on the beach.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:59am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:49am: wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:24am: I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention. The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments. Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want. After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right). Or alternatively dropping our annual refugee intake from 13,000 to another number. Some would be concerned that dropping this figure would impact on us in some way. But it wont as the intake numbers are set by the individual countries who are signatories to the Refugee Convention 1951. New Zealand's refugee intake is 500 per year, and who cares or talks about that. But nothing can change unfortunately while the government has a failed border protection policy in force, and is so inept and incompetent. Their is no disincentive for foreign criminal gangs to smuggle people here. The Navy's Border Protection Command should change their name, their protecting nothing. They are a glorified overpaid concierge service providing escort to Australia. Some criminal boat crews are back here on their second voyage after first spending a short stay in our lovely 5 star prison with free internet, free board, free medical, free English lessons, TV and 3 square meals a day in total consideration of their cultural and ethnicity, and then being flown home at our expense. First class I hope. After all, we don't want to offend the little possums. :) Right...and how exactly will dropping the intake assist in stopping the inflow again? If anything, considering most people who get on a boat are doing so because they've fled an Indonesian refugee camp, we need to increase our number of intake, perhaps doubling it.  That way we can atleast speed up the processing and reduce this so called "queue."  After all, last time I checked you don't stop "queue jumpers" by reducing the number of aisles.

Double it, now I've heard it all.
Haven't you realised, the system is collapsing right now.
Health, education, housing, water, jobs, crime, security.
Filling this country up with more non english speaking uneducated dole line fillers does what exactly?
Were you a fan of Keatings banana republic vision?
It's quite obvious that even doubling our intake, we would still see overcrowded detention centres as even more boats would arrive.
What's needed is a proper border protection policy that gives a disincentive to the boats crew to even make the voyage.
That's what we had before, and it 's what this incompetent government removed, and it's what those clowns are looking for again.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 11:53am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:59am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:49am: wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:24am: I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention. The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments. Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want. After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right). Or alternatively dropping our annual refugee intake from 13,000 to another number. Some would be concerned that dropping this figure would impact on us in some way. But it wont as the intake numbers are set by the individual countries who are signatories to the Refugee Convention 1951. New Zealand's refugee intake is 500 per year, and who cares or talks about that. But nothing can change unfortunately while the government has a failed border protection policy in force, and is so inept and incompetent. Their is no disincentive for foreign criminal gangs to smuggle people here. The Navy's Border Protection Command should change their name, their protecting nothing. They are a glorified overpaid concierge service providing escort to Australia. Some criminal boat crews are back here on their second voyage after first spending a short stay in our lovely 5 star prison with free internet, free board, free medical, free English lessons, TV and 3 square meals a day in total consideration of their cultural and ethnicity, and then being flown home at our expense. First class I hope. After all, we don't want to offend the little possums. :) Right...and how exactly will dropping the intake assist in stopping the inflow again? If anything, considering most people who get on a boat are doing so because they've fled an Indonesian refugee camp, we need to increase our number of intake, perhaps doubling it.  That way we can atleast speed up the processing and reduce this so called "queue."  After all, last time I checked you don't stop "queue jumpers" by reducing the number of aisles. Double it, now I've heard it all. Haven't you realised, the system is collapsing right now. Health, education, housing, water, jobs, crime, security. Filling this country up with more non english speaking uneducated dole line fillers does what exactly? Were you a fan of Keatings banana republic vision? It's quite obvious that even doubling our intake, we would still see overcrowded detention centres as even more boats would arrive. What's needed is a proper border protection policy that gives a disincentive to the boats crew to even make the voyage. That's what we had before, and it 's what this incompetent government removed, and it's what those clowns are looking for again.

You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them.

The disincentive to the boat crew is to remove the clientele. To remove the clientele, you ened to remove the "queue."  You don't remove the "queue" by reducing the number of intake.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 12:16pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 11:53am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:59am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:49am: wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:24am: I'll say it again - it is time we had a referendum on the idea of Australia withdrawing from the UN 1951 Refugee Convention. The last time I mentioned this, I noticed the do gooders like 'alevine' and 'philperth' disappeared back into the woodwork without any comments. Come on, guys - surely you can't see a problem with that? Resolve this issue once and for all by finding out what the Australian people want. After all, we are supposed to be a democratic country where Governments listen to and obey the will of the majority, aren't we? (Yeah, right). Or alternatively dropping our annual refugee intake from 13,000 to another number. Some would be concerned that dropping this figure would impact on us in some way. But it wont as the intake numbers are set by the individual countries who are signatories to the Refugee Convention 1951. New Zealand's refugee intake is 500 per year, and who cares or talks about that. But nothing can change unfortunately while the government has a failed border protection policy in force, and is so inept and incompetent. Their is no disincentive for foreign criminal gangs to smuggle people here. The Navy's Border Protection Command should change their name, their protecting nothing. They are a glorified overpaid concierge service providing escort to Australia. Some criminal boat crews are back here on their second voyage after first spending a short stay in our lovely 5 star prison with free internet, free board, free medical, free English lessons, TV and 3 square meals a day in total consideration of their cultural and ethnicity, and then being flown home at our expense. First class I hope. After all, we don't want to offend the little possums. :) Right...and how exactly will dropping the intake assist in stopping the inflow again? If anything, considering most people who get on a boat are doing so because they've fled an Indonesian refugee camp, we need to increase our number of intake, perhaps doubling it.  That way we can atleast speed up the processing and reduce this so called "queue."  After all, last time I checked you don't stop "queue jumpers" by reducing the number of aisles. Double it, now I've heard it all. Haven't you realised, the system is collapsing right now. Health, education, housing, water, jobs, crime, security. Filling this country up with more non english speaking uneducated dole line fillers does what exactly? Were you a fan of Keatings banana republic vision? It's quite obvious that even doubling our intake, we would still see overcrowded detention centres as even more boats would arrive. What's needed is a proper border protection policy that gives a disincentive to the boats crew to even make the voyage. That's what we had before, and it 's what this incompetent government removed, and it's what those clowns are looking for again. You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them. The disincentive to the boat crew is to remove the clientele. To remove the clientele, you ened to remove the "queue."  You don't remove the "queue" by reducing the number of intake.

Yes I've heard this line before, and even the ones that only made it to first grade are the 'educated' ones.
And all the woman that were refused schooling in their country because they are female, I suppose they are educated too?
And their highly skilled means what in a non-industrialised country?
Even the East Germans that worked in the auto shops couldn't get a job in West Germany when the wall came down in the 90's.
Why?
Because they don't make cars by hand in West Germany, and who wanted the crappy Eastern ones when they can buy a BMW or Mercedes.
And even if a small few are educated and trained, they would still find it difficult and not because of bias.
But simply because their qualifications are not recognised in this State or country, and they need 're-educating'.
Which is why the few foreign doctors and nurses that come here which we are critically short of can't get a go here.
So being a first class spear sharpener or goat herder means what to us?
The disincentive to the boat crew is to throw them in the slammer for ten years, the disincentive for the lot is to re-open Nauru and reintroduce TPV's.
Because we have come from the high point of 1 boat a year for 3 years and 5 detainees on Nauru thanks to Howard, to the ridiculous situation we are in now.
There is no way to remove the clientelle as you suggest, the situation in foreign lands is totally out of our hands, and their are millions of people waiting in camps.
And we can't solve all the worlds problems.
All thanks to to this incompetent and inept government we are in the situation we are in now.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 12:16pm:

You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them.

And how does a refugee become highly skilled and educated, if they a fleeing a war torn 3rd world shiat hole, exactly?

I don't recall afghanistan or countries in africa having too many univerities, secondary or tertiary industries even before it was invaded.

I suppose it is just as easy to tell a big bullshiat story as it is to tell a small one.  ;D

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 12:55pm:

[quote author=alevine link=1301998074/15#24 date=1302056179] Yes I've heard this line before, and even the ones that only made it to first grade are the 'educated' ones. And all the woman that were refused schooling in their country because they are female, I suppose they are educated too? And their highly skilled means what in a non-industrialised country? Even the East Germans that worked in the auto shops couldn't get a job in West Germany when the wall came down in the 90's. Why? Because they don't make cars by hand in West Germany, and who wanted the crappy Eastern ones when they can buy a BMW or Mercedes. And even if a small few are educated and trained, they would still find it difficult and not because of bias. But simply because their qualifications are not recognised in this State or country, and they need 're-educating'. Which is why the few foreign doctors and nurses that come here which we are critically short of can't get a go here. So being a first class spear sharpener or goat herder means what to us? The disincentive to the boat crew is to throw them in the slammer for ten years, the disincentive for the lot is to re-open Nauru and reintroduce TPV's. Because we have come from the high point of 1 boat a year for 3 years and 5 detainees on Nauru thanks to Howard, to the ridiculous situation we are in now. There is no way to remove the clientelle as you suggest, the situation in foreign lands is totally out of our hands, and their are millions of people waiting in camps. And we can't solve all the worlds problems. All thanks to to this incompetent and inept government we are in the situation we are in now.

Most migrants have to re-certify in Australia.  Doesn't mean the person isn't educated, and generally speaking with the skills they have and upon re-certification they'll do a lot better than our wonderful growing bogan community.  And when we are talking about unskilled women, that can be referred to certain cultures only, and unlike some on this forum, I'm against discrimination of a minority.  Despite what The Australian likes to publish, not all refugees are from Afghanistan.

Once again I repeat: the disincentive for boat crew is to not have a product. But like in anything, you don't treat the product harshly and extremely in an attempt to punish the product seller.
1. TPV are a hoax - how many actually left based on the visa, and furthermore, you can't resettle a person, ask them to gain employment, a skill, and then kick them out.  It doesn't work like that.  Otherwise, I vote we don't allow Hickory, and people like Hickory, back in.

2. Nauru is not a refugee convention signatory.  If it was, then whatever.  But, it isn't.

3. How much money did Howard spend to demonise refugees? I'll post it up for you as soon as I check ABS (busy with r/l atm).

4. Once again, stop worrying bout issues that don't impact you in anyway. Concentrate on the growing bogan communities and the fact that in Illawarra, 193 kids are being removed from their home (at the moment at a rate of 1 per day). THAT IS AN ISSUE that impacts this society.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:03pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:16pm: You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them. And how does a refugee become highly skilled and educated, if they a fleeing a war torn 3rd world shiat hole, exactly? I don't recall afghanistan or countries in africa having too many univerities, secondary or tertiary industries even before it was invaded. I suppose it is just as easy to tell a big bullshiat story as it is to tell a small one.  ;D

You're right:
* Afghanistan doesn't have doctors, engineers, lawyers. They are all just a bunch of jihadists.

*Africans are just a bunch of voodoo doctors and speer throwers.  They also don't have any professions.

You nuff.  At least open your curtains every now and then, and gaze at the outside world.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:16pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:03pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:16pm: You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them. And how does a refugee become highly skilled and educated, if they a fleeing a war torn 3rd world shiat hole, exactly? I don't recall afghanistan or countries in africa having too many univerities, secondary or tertiary industries even before it was invaded. I suppose it is just as easy to tell a big bullshiat story as it is to tell a small one.  ;D You're right: * Afghanistan doesn't have doctors, engineers, lawyers. They are all just a bunch of jihadists. *Africans are just a bunch of voodoo doctors and speer throwers.  They also don't have any professions. You nuff.  At least open your curtains every now and then, and gaze at the outside world.

You did say 'most' reffos are educated and highly skilled, something you couldn't say about 'most' Australians, so where are they being highly skilled and educated before they lob into aus?

Is there some secret 3rd world education program and industrial skills training program they are not telling us about?

I stand by my statement, BULLSHIAT!!

one tax after another .. one detention after another .. loke like this allicance Lab / Green don't have any clues how to handle any situation .. except taking .. and wasting taxpayers' money

bridonta wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:42pm:

one tax after another .. one detention after another .. loke like this allicance Lab / Green don't have any clues how to handle any situation .. except taking .. and wasting taxpayers' money

Some people seem to think that the Howardian Era was a golden age - one in which the Govt was 100% in control and even driving economic growth and deterring would-be refugees...

Just because you didn't hear much negative about the Howard years doesn't mean that nothing much happened - much did happen but the media didn't seem inclined to hold Howard & Co to account...

Heck, unlike the current Lib Opposition, the then Lab Opposition didn't seem so disposed to whining about anything and everything - and the media focused a lot on the Opposition...

I would suggest that some people really need to try to take a step back and consider the extent to which their socio-economic, environmental and political perceptions and opinions have been systematically, albeit insidiously, manufactured through partisan propagandists...

Equitist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

bridonta wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:42pm: one tax after another .. one detention after another .. loke like this allicance Lab / Green don't have any clues how to handle any situation .. except taking .. and wasting taxpayers' money Some people seem to think that the Howardian Era was a golden age - one in which the Govt was 100% in control and even driving economic growth and deterring would-be refugees... Just because you didn't hear much negative about the Howard years doesn't mean that nothing much happened - much did happen but the media didn't seem inclined to hold Howard & Co to account... Heck, unlike the current Lib Opposition, the then Lab Opposition didn't seem so disposed to whining about anything and everything - and the media focused a lot on the Opposition... I would suggest that some people really need to try to take a step back and consider the extent to which their socio-economic, environmental and political perceptions and opinions have been systematically, albeit insidiously, manufactured through partisan propagandists...

And the winner of this years most over the top, dramatic drama queen goes to thy.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:38pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:16pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:03pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:16pm: You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them. And how does a refugee become highly skilled and educated, if they a fleeing a war torn 3rd world shiat hole, exactly? I don't recall afghanistan or countries in africa having too many univerities, secondary or tertiary industries even before it was invaded. I suppose it is just as easy to tell a big bullshiat story as it is to tell a small one.  ;D You're right: * Afghanistan doesn't have doctors, engineers, lawyers. They are all just a bunch of jihadists. *Africans are just a bunch of voodoo doctors and speer throwers.  They also don't have any professions. You nuff.  At least open your curtains every now and then, and gaze at the outside world. You did say 'most' reffos are educated and highly skilled, something you couldn't say about 'most' Australians, so where are they being highly skilled and educated before they lob into aus? Is there some secret 3rd world education program and industrial skills training program they are not telling us about? I stand by my statement, BULLSHIAT!!

I repeat, all people from the Middle East are jihadists and all Africans are just spear throwers.  

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Equitist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

bridonta wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:42pm: one tax after another .. one detention after another .. loke like this allicance Lab / Green don't have any clues how to handle any situation .. except taking .. and wasting taxpayers' money Some people seem to think that the Howardian Era was a golden age - one in which the Govt was 100% in control and even driving economic growth and deterring would-be refugees... Just because you didn't hear much negative about the Howard years doesn't mean that nothing much happened - much did happen but the media didn't seem inclined to hold Howard & Co to account... Heck, unlike the current Lib Opposition, the then Lab Opposition didn't seem so disposed to whining about anything and everything - and the media focused a lot on the Opposition... I would suggest that some people really need to try to take a step back and consider the extent to which their socio-economic, environmental and political perceptions and opinions have been systematically, albeit insidiously, manufactured through partisan propagandists...

nem any govt would be an improvement on the one we have had for the past 3.5 years..

labs didnt whine..lol are you kidding because whatever they said the Libs could come back with twice as awful by their goodselves.. why do you think they got voted OUT.... and thats going to be the future as well.. so suck it up charlie..

she bought her three independent voters nice one.. I am so glad Abbott didnt inspire them to go with him...lol..

pokies now yeah!!!! right lets get all our priorities in order.. the NBN and pokermachines...and if you dont do as we three say then we take our vote and go home so there!...

and this is Australian politics today..WOW cant wait for tomorrow..

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:15pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:55pm: [quote author=alevine link=1301998074/15#24 date=1302056179] Yes I've heard this line before, and even the ones that only made it to first grade are the 'educated' ones. And all the woman that were refused schooling in their country because they are female, I suppose they are educated too? And their highly skilled means what in a non-industrialised country? Even the East Germans that worked in the auto shops couldn't get a job in West Germany when the wall came down in the 90's. Why? Because they don't make cars by hand in West Germany, and who wanted the crappy Eastern ones when they can buy a BMW or Mercedes. And even if a small few are educated and trained, they would still find it difficult and not because of bias. But simply because their qualifications are not recognised in this State or country, and they need 're-educating'. Which is why the few foreign doctors and nurses that come here which we are critically short of can't get a go here. So being a first class spear sharpener or goat herder means what to us? The disincentive to the boat crew is to throw them in the slammer for ten years, the disincentive for the lot is to re-open Nauru and reintroduce TPV's. Because we have come from the high point of 1 boat a year for 3 years and 5 detainees on Nauru thanks to Howard, to the ridiculous situation we are in now. There is no way to remove the clientelle as you suggest, the situation in foreign lands is totally out of our hands, and their are millions of people waiting in camps. And we can't solve all the worlds problems. All thanks to to this incompetent and inept government we are in the situation we are in now. Most migrants have to re-certify in Australia.  Doesn't mean the person isn't educated, and generally speaking with the skills they have and upon re-certification they'll do a lot better than our wonderful growing bogan community.  And when we are talking about unskilled women, that can be referred to certain cultures only, and unlike some on this forum, I'm against discrimination of a minority.  Despite what The Australian likes to publish, not all refugees are from Afghanistan. Once again I repeat: the disincentive for boat crew is to not have a product. But like in anything, you don't treat the product harshly and extremely in an attempt to punish the product seller. 1. TPV are a hoax - how many actually left based on the visa, and furthermore, you can't resettle a person, ask them to gain employment, a skill, and then kick them out.  It doesn't work like that.  Otherwise, I vote we don't allow Hickory, and people like Hickory, back in. 2. Nauru is not a refugee convention signatory.  If it was, then whatever.  But, it isn't. 3. How much money did Howard spend to demonise refugees? I'll post it up for you as soon as I check ABS (busy with r/l atm). 4. Once again, stop worrying bout issues that don't impact you in anyway. Concentrate on the growing bogan communities and the fact that in Illawarra, 193 kids are being removed from their home (at the moment at a rate of 1 per day). THAT IS AN ISSUE that impacts this society.

We will see in the budget how this wont effect us when Gillard has to take more money that would have gone to the states in GST to fund our hospitals, roads, education etc to prop up their runaway border protection policy that they no longer control.
And I will also see how much their piss poor policy costs me when this fracking goat track called the Bruce Highway goes underwater again next year up here.
193 Aussie kids removed from bogan homes in the Illawarra will effect me less.
Perhaps the government and do gooders shouldn't have interferred in the family home and schools with discipline and taken away the rights of parents.  Just a thought.
And how much money did Howard spend, well I would say alot less than this wasteful incompetent government which now exists on crisis management.
5 detainees left on Nauru with only Villawood Detention Centre open after Howard closed down the other centres compared to the situation today.
What do you think.
Labors current 'policy' (if it can be called that) is akin to them putting more ambulances at the bottom of the Gap in Sydney to be seen to be doing 'something' about an increase in suicides.
The horse has bolted, and the effort is wasted.
The reality is with TPV's and Nauru, the boats stopped.
One boat a year for three years.
The sewing of lips stopped.
The excessive waste of money stopped with endless appeals.
Only 5 detainees left on Nauru with nearly all the centres closed on the mainland.
And the criminal boat crews had to go back to having real jobs again.
And that's no hoax.
The disincentive for a boats crew might well be to not have a product, and who is going to arrange and make that happen?
Are we going to invade other countries and oust their governments?
What exactly do you propose to 'stop' the clientelle?
Face it, that's just science fiction.
Inject some punative measures would acheive a better result, and that's something we can control.
Cant have a boats crew whilst their painting rocks white in the central desert for 10 years.
And when they are released, I just bet they won't come back for seconds like they do now.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:01pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:38pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:16pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:03pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:16pm: You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them. And how does a refugee become highly skilled and educated, if they a fleeing a war torn 3rd world shiat hole, exactly? I don't recall afghanistan or countries in africa having too many univerities, secondary or tertiary industries even before it was invaded. I suppose it is just as easy to tell a big bullshiat story as it is to tell a small one.  ;D You're right: * Afghanistan doesn't have doctors, engineers, lawyers. They are all just a bunch of jihadists. *Africans are just a bunch of voodoo doctors and speer throwers.  They also don't have any professions. You nuff.  At least open your curtains every now and then, and gaze at the outside world. You did say 'most' reffos are educated and highly skilled, something you couldn't say about 'most' Australians, so where are they being highly skilled and educated before they lob into aus? Is there some secret 3rd world education program and industrial skills training program they are not telling us about? I stand by my statement, BULLSHIAT!! I repeat, all people from the Middle East are jihadists and all Africans are just spear throwers.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just because you have mastered the art of the infantile reductio arguments with just a hint of sarcasm, doesn't mean you are not an idiot.

You made a stupid statement and when held to account you have resorted to inanities.

So, well done you are clown of the highest order

What next?  An act of desperation which leaves Tasmanians with no choice, they couldn’t get their own way with Timor so this pathetic bunch reverts back to Van Diemen’s Land…….Don’t they realise that Tasmania is a State and therefore not considered offshore?

Whoops forgot they're leftards......

Equitist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

bridonta wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:42pm: one tax after another .. one detention after another .. loke like this allicance Lab / Green don't have any clues how to handle any situation .. except taking .. and wasting taxpayers' money Some people seem to think that the Howardian Era was a golden age - one in which the Govt was 100% in control and even driving economic growth and deterring would-be refugees...

Compared that to the Rudd/Gillard years IT IS a golden era

Now we have budget deficits that's 10 times larger than what Keating had

Debts way passed debt levels Keating had

More illegals than they can count

and not to mention increases in taxes eg Carbon Tax

Wastages - Pink Batts, BER

Maqqua you forgot to mention the money they are paying to that hypocrite Garnaut.  You know the bloke that made hundreds of thousands working for mines that caused some of the worst environment vandalism in the world.  


Seems there's different standards between air emissions and river emissions and pollution in the first world and third world?

Garnaut defends dumping mine waste in river
September 15, 2010 - 5:04PM

Climate change expert Ross Garnaut has defended the decision of mining companies with which he has been involved to use a controversial method of releasing mining waste into rivers and the ocean in Papua New Guinea. Professor Garnaut, who conducted the Rudd government's 2008 climate-change review, was the chairman of Lihir Gold, a mining company taken over by Newcrest Gold last month. He is also a director of OK Tedi Mining Limited, another company that operates in PNG.

Last week the ABC's 7.30 Report aired a report about Lihir and OK Tedi's practice of using deep sea tailings placement (DSTP) at two separate mines. The Lihir project, under Newcrest, is set to produce 1 million ounces of gold a year on Lihir Island, 900 kilometres north of Port Moresby. OK Tedi extracts copper, gold and silver from its remote Star Mountains operation in PNG's Western Province.

According to the ABC report, OK Tedi discharges 56 million tonnes of metalliferous waste into local river systems each year. The practice is banned in Canada and the US and indigenous landowners were concerned with the method being employed at the mines.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/garnaut-defends-dumping-mine-waste-in-river-20100915-15caf.html

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:15pm:

We will see in the budget how this wont effect us when Gillard has to take more money that would have gone to the states in GST to fund our hospitals, roads, education etc to prop up their runaway border protection policy that they no longer control. And I will also see how much their piss poor policy costs me when this fracking goat track called the Bruce Highway goes underwater again next year up here. 193 Aussie kids removed from bogan homes in the Illawarra will effect me less. Perhaps the government and do gooders shouldn't have interferred in the family home and schools with discipline and taken away the rights of parents.  Just a thought. And how much money did Howard spend, well I would say alot less than this wasteful incompetent government which now exists on crisis management. 5 detainees left on Nauru with only Villawood Detention Centre open after Howard closed down the other centres compared to the situation today. What do you think. Labors current 'policy' (if it can be called that) is akin to them putting more ambulances at the bottom of the Gap in Sydney to be seen to be doing 'something' about an increase in suicides. The horse has bolted, and the effort is wasted. The reality is with TPV's and Nauru, the boats stopped. One boat a year for three years. The sewing of lips stopped. The excessive waste of money stopped with endless appeals. Only 5 detainees left on Nauru with nearly all the centres closed on the mainland. And the criminal boat crews had to go back to having real jobs again. And that's no hoax. The disincentive for a boats crew might well be to not have a product, and who is going to arrange and make that happen? Are we going to invade other countries and oust their governments? What exactly do you propose to 'stop' the clientelle? Face it, that's just science fiction. Inject some punative measures would acheive a better result, and that's something we can control. Cant have a boats crew whilst their painting rocks white in the central desert for 10 years. And when they are released, I just bet they won't come back for seconds like they do now.

The money used for border protection isn't taken away from GST so that's a baseless statement.

Nor can you justify that money used on building up the Bruce Highway. Once again, it's like the argument that this money should be used on homeless.  It's a nice statement, but which party is actually saying they will allocate the retrieved funds this way? they won't.

Taking power from parents isn't the problem.  Drunken violent bogans are.

Punative measures against smugglers I agree with. Against refugees, absolutely not.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 2:01pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:38pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:16pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:03pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:16pm: You'll find that majority of refugees are educated and highly skilled, and the only reason they have problems getting a job is because of your exact stereotyping of them. And how does a refugee become highly skilled and educated, if they a fleeing a war torn 3rd world shiat hole, exactly? I don't recall afghanistan or countries in africa having too many univerities, secondary or tertiary industries even before it was invaded. I suppose it is just as easy to tell a big bullshiat story as it is to tell a small one.  ;D You're right: * Afghanistan doesn't have doctors, engineers, lawyers. They are all just a bunch of jihadists. *Africans are just a bunch of voodoo doctors and speer throwers.  They also don't have any professions. You nuff.  At least open your curtains every now and then, and gaze at the outside world. You did say 'most' reffos are educated and highly skilled, something you couldn't say about 'most' Australians, so where are they being highly skilled and educated before they lob into aus? Is there some secret 3rd world education program and industrial skills training program they are not telling us about? I stand by my statement, BULLSHIAT!! I repeat, all people from the Middle East are jihadists and all Africans are just spear throwers.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Just because you have mastered the art of the infantile reductio arguments with just a hint of sarcasm, doesn't mean you are not an idiot. You made a stupid statement and when held to account you have resorted to inanities. So, well done you are clown of the highest order

I don't get your anger. I already told you I agree with you!

* Middle East doesn't have doctors, engineers, lawyers. They are all just a bunch of jihadists.

*Africans are just a bunch of voodoo doctors and spear throwers.  They also don't have any professions.
You nuff.  At least open your curtains every now and then, and gaze at the outside world.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Seriously mate, get out and enjoy the world.   What a shame you are so closed off.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 5:37pm:

I don't get your anger. I already told you I agree with you! * Middle East doesn't have doctors, engineers, lawyers. They are all just a bunch of jihadists. *Africans are just a bunch of voodoo doctors and spear throwers.  They also don't have any professions. You nuff.  At least open your curtains every now and then, and gaze at the outside world. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Seriously mate, get out and enjoy the world.   What a shame you are so closed off.

I don't have a problem with not 'getting out enough' I do have a problem with bullshiat artists who spout leftist propaganda without a shred of evidence; but since you conceded that you were full of shiat when you made you initial statement, you may have learned to not do it again, but I doubt it.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 2:15pm: We will see in the budget how this wont effect us when Gillard has to take more money that would have gone to the states in GST to fund our hospitals, roads, education etc to prop up their runaway border protection policy that they no longer control. And I will also see how much their piss poor policy costs me when this fracking goat track called the Bruce Highway goes underwater again next year up here. 193 Aussie kids removed from bogan homes in the Illawarra will effect me less. Perhaps the government and do gooders shouldn't have interferred in the family home and schools with discipline and taken away the rights of parents.  Just a thought. And how much money did Howard spend, well I would say alot less than this wasteful incompetent government which now exists on crisis management. 5 detainees left on Nauru with only Villawood Detention Centre open after Howard closed down the other centres compared to the situation today. What do you think. Labors current 'policy' (if it can be called that) is akin to them putting more ambulances at the bottom of the Gap in Sydney to be seen to be doing 'something' about an increase in suicides. The horse has bolted, and the effort is wasted. The reality is with TPV's and Nauru, the boats stopped. One boat a year for three years. The sewing of lips stopped. The excessive waste of money stopped with endless appeals. Only 5 detainees left on Nauru with nearly all the centres closed on the mainland. And the criminal boat crews had to go back to having real jobs again. And that's no hoax. The disincentive for a boats crew might well be to not have a product, and who is going to arrange and make that happen? Are we going to invade other countries and oust their governments? What exactly do you propose to 'stop' the clientelle? Face it, that's just science fiction. Inject some punative measures would acheive a better result, and that's something we can control. Cant have a boats crew whilst their painting rocks white in the central desert for 10 years. And when they are released, I just bet they won't come back for seconds like they do now. The money used for border protection isn't taken away from GST so that's a baseless statement. Nor can you justify that money used on building up the Bruce Highway. Once again, it's like the argument that this money should be used on homeless.  It's a nice statement, but which party is actually saying they will allocate the retrieved funds this way? they won't. Taking power from parents isn't the problem.  Drunken violent bogans are. Punative measures against smugglers I agree with. Against refugees, absolutely not.

Baseless, I don't think so.
There is only so much in the kitty.
I understand Labor will also be reducing spending on medical research as they are committed to bringing the budget back to surplus.
If they are also committed to funding their runaway border protection 'policy' that they no longer control but pay for, that will effect the amount handed to the states.
Unless of course they keep borrowing as they are currently doing in which case forget about any surplus in two years.

Equitist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

Some people seem to think that the Howardian Era was a golden age - one in which the Govt was 100% in control and even driving economic growth and deterring would-be refugees... Just because you didn't hear much negative about the Howard years doesn't mean that nothing much happened - much did happen but the media didn't seem inclined to hold Howard & Co to account... Heck, unlike the current Lib Opposition, the then Lab Opposition didn't seem so disposed to whining about anything and everything - and the media focused a lot on the Opposition... I would suggest that some people really need to try to take a step back and consider the extent to which their socio-economic, environmental and political perceptions and opinions have been systematically, albeit insidiously, manufactured through partisan propagandists...

The conservatives here should print this out and stick it on the wall above their monitor and read it every day.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 7^th, 2011 at 9:02am:

Equitist wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 1:54pm: Some people seem to think that the Howardian Era was a golden age - one in which the Govt was 100% in control and even driving economic growth and deterring would-be refugees... Just because you didn't hear much negative about the Howard years doesn't mean that nothing much happened - much did happen but the media didn't seem inclined to hold Howard & Co to account... Heck, unlike the current Lib Opposition, the then Lab Opposition didn't seem so disposed to whining about anything and everything - and the media focused a lot on the Opposition... I would suggest that some people really need to try to take a step back and consider the extent to which their socio-economic, environmental and political perceptions and opinions have been systematically, albeit insidiously, manufactured through partisan propagandists... The conservatives here should print this out and stick it on the wall above their monitor and read it every day.

Why, the difference between the two governments apart from idiology and eight and a half years, was the simple fact that the Howard government was competent which left the Labor Opposition little to respond to.
The current and previous Labor government are the most inept and incompetent in this countries history, giving the current Opposition much to crow about on a daily basis.
So I'm happy to read the above daily, but it doesn't get past the fact Labor are a mob of bumbling stumbling Mr Magoo's going from one crisis situation to another and they bungle and backflip their way through every policy they have put out.
"Oh Labor, you've done it again".