See this video.
Why aren't we doing this here in Australia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5DiTPw3dk

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 12:33am:

See this video. Why aren't we doing this here in Australia? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5DiTPw3dk

Because Bobby, as good as thorium is as a power source.....if you mention the word 'nuclear' every one starts frothing at the mouth and running around in a panic....

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 3:51pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 12:33am: See this video. Why aren't we doing this here in Australia? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5DiTPw3dk Because Bobby, as good as thorium is aa a power source.....if you mention the word 'nuclear' every one starts frothing at the mouth and running around in a panic....

Youre starting to use my material now Gizmo

Thorium based fuel cycles used for the production of heat are not self sustaning like the Uranium fuel cycle.

In otherwords they need a secondary external neutron source to trigger the chain reaction.

The advantages for using THorium is its relative abundance when compared to Uranium (which may have another century or so left before exhausted)

The other advantage is that Thorium fule cycles cannot lead to the production of fissionable by products such as Plutonium that are used to make nuclear weapons.

Some Thorium reactor waste components, although less in volume are even more toxic than those produced in conventional Uranium and MOX reactors.

Just because you can reduce the half life of some of the waste streams to several hundred thousand years doesnt mean you have eliminated the waste treatment and disposal issues.

Plutonium is one of the most toxic radioactive substances for life and has a half life of 24,000 years. Uranium 238 has a half life of 4.5 billion years and is far less lethal. You cant judge the toxicity purely upon looking at half lifes.  

So you'd support the building of Thorium reactors in Australia????

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 4:08pm:

So you'd support the building of Thorium reactors in Australia????

I certainly would, especially cyclotron based Thorium reactors. (superconducting isochronous cyclotron stack )

http://accelconf.web.cern.ch/Accelconf/p01/PAPERS/WPPH062.PDF

This design is even cleaner than the Indian reactors.

muso wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 6:33pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 4:08pm: So you'd support the building of Thorium reactors in Australia???? I certainly would, especially cyclotron based Thorium reactors. (superconducting isochronous cyclotron stack ) http://accelconf.web.cern.ch/Accelconf/p01/PAPERS/WPPH062.PDF This design is even cleaner than the Indian reactors.

Good post Muso.
What I like about Thorium reactors is that they are safe.
They can't melt down & they eat nuclear waste for breakfast.

All that nuclear waste that we have to store away for millions
of years can be used to obtain energy & the resultant products
are much safer after a shorter period of time.

Also we have plenty of Thorium in Australia.
I believe it's actually a waste product - right now.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 7:11pm:

Good post Muso. What I like about Thorium reactors is that they are safe. They can't melt down & they eat nuclear waste for breakfast. All that nuclear waste that we have to store away for millions of years can be used to obtain energy & the resultant products are much safer after a shorter period of time. Also we have plenty of Thorium in Australia. I believe it's actually a waste product - right now.

Well the cyclotron based reactors do at least. We have a fairly large proportion of the world's Thorium reserves in Australia. I seem to remember between 25% and 50% without looking it up.

If Thorium based reactors caught on, Australians would be the Thorium barons of the world, or more than likely some South African based mining company would get all the profits.  

muso wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 7:11pm: Good post Muso. What I like about Thorium reactors is that they are safe. They can't melt down & they eat nuclear waste for breakfast. All that nuclear waste that we have to store away for millions of years can be used to obtain energy & the resultant products are much safer after a shorter period of time. Also we have plenty of Thorium in Australia. I believe it's actually a waste product - right now. Well the cyclotron based reactors do at least. We have a fairly large proportion of the world's Thorium reserves in Australia. I seem to remember between 25% and 50% without looking it up. If Thorium based reactors caught on, Australians would be the Thorium barons of the world, or more than likely some South African based mining company would get all the profits.

Australia's energy options can be met cheaply and safely via the solar thermal and geothermal pathway - Australia is blessed with these resources.

Thorium has some great advantages over the Uranium and MOX systems, but let us not view them as some eco friendly clean energy source.

Just because Thorium reactors dont produce Plutonium which is good for the NNPT, doesnt mean there is NO long term waste issues.

Countries that cannot satisfy their energy needs with renewables and sustainable options, would be better off going down the THorium path instead of the Uranium and MOX pathway.

Again - safe waste management and storage have to be guaranteed for several hundred thousand years

good luck

Muso,

Quote:

If Thorium based reactors caught on, Australians would be the Thorium barons of the world

It won't happen with the kind of Governments we've had.

Imagine if we were ahead of India & could provide working Thorium reactors
& the fuel pellets to a world starved of energy!

Instead we wasted money on GST adverts & other useless schemes
like pink Batts which burnt houses down & cost $billions.

It's time we woke up in Australia & added some value to our resources.
It's not too late to change our ways.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Muso, Quote: If Thorium based reactors caught on, Australians would be the Thorium barons of the world It won't happen with the kind of Governments we've had. Imagine if we were ahead of India & could provide working Thorium reactors & the fuel pellets to a world starved of energy! Instead we wasted money on GST adverts & other useless schemes like pink Batts which burnt houses down & cost $billions. It's time we woke up in Australia & added some value to our resources. It's not too late to change our ways.

Easy enough, stop voting in Labor/Green governments....The Coalition are the only party prepared to even discuss nuclear power....It wouldn't be too hard to get them onto the Thorium bandwagon..

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:22pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 8:17pm: Muso, Quote: If Thorium based reactors caught on, Australians would be the Thorium barons of the world It won't happen with the kind of Governments we've had. Imagine if we were ahead of India & could provide working Thorium reactors & the fuel pellets to a world starved of energy! Instead we wasted money on GST adverts & other useless schemes like pink Batts which burnt houses down & cost $billions. It's time we woke up in Australia & added some value to our resources. It's not too late to change our ways. Easy enough, stop voting in Labor/Green governments....The Coalition are the only party prepared to even discuss nuclear power....It wouldn't be too hard to get them onto the Thorium bandwagon..

that's right the libbos are only good at talking and when it comes time to act they would just sign off a blank cheque to their mates at GE and Westinghouse. They wouldn't dream of spending one extra cent on R&D of any kind here :(

Nail.

Quote:

that's right the libbos are only good at talking and when it comes time to act they would just sign off a blank cheque to their mates at GE and Westinghouse. They wouldn't dream of spending one extra cent on R&D of any kind here

It's a disgrace in the way we waste the intellectual resources of our scientists.
They are low paid & looked down on.
People like lawyers & real estate agents are worshipped while scientists
hold the true key to out future & have to fight to get a few lousy dollars for research.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:47pm:

Nail. Quote: that's right the libbos are only good at talking and when it comes time to act they would just sign off a blank cheque to their mates at GE and Westinghouse. They wouldn't dream of spending one extra cent on R&D of any kind here It's a disgrace in the way we waste the intellectual resources of our scientists. They are low paid & looked down on. People like lawyers & real estate agents are worshipped while scientists hold the true key to out future & have to fight to get a few lousy dollars for research.

this is not the case

The top LEAST trusted professions in this country include Lawyers, mechanics, politicians and real estate agents

Scientists dont even show up on the spectrum

Although I agree that they are underpaid in many instances

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:30pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 8:22pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 8:17pm: Muso, Quote: If Thorium based reactors caught on, Australians would be the Thorium barons of the world It won't happen with the kind of Governments we've had. Imagine if we were ahead of India & could provide working Thorium reactors & the fuel pellets to a world starved of energy! Instead we wasted money on GST adverts & other useless schemes like pink Batts which burnt houses down & cost $billions. It's time we woke up in Australia & added some value to our resources. It's not too late to change our ways. Easy enough, stop voting in Labor/Green governments....The Coalition are the only party prepared to even discuss nuclear power....It wouldn't be too hard to get them onto the Thorium bandwagon.. that's right the libbos are only good at talking and when it comes time to act they would just sign off a blank cheque to their mates at GE and Westinghouse. They wouldn't dream of spending one extra cent on R&D of any kind here :(

You mean like big noter Kevvy & the laughing car manufacturers?

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 9:14pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 8:47pm: Nail. Quote: that's right the libbos are only good at talking and when it comes time to act they would just sign off a blank cheque to their mates at GE and Westinghouse. They wouldn't dream of spending one extra cent on R&D of any kind here It's a disgrace in the way we waste the intellectual resources of our scientists. They are low paid & looked down on. People like lawyers & real estate agents are worshipped while scientists hold the true key to out future & have to fight to get a few lousy dollars for research. this is not the case The top LEAST trusted professions in this country include Lawyers, mechanics, politicians and real estate agents Scientists dont even show up on the spectrum Although I agree that they are underpaid in many instances

Scientists with PhDs get less than plumbers.
It's a disgrace.

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

Australia's energy options can be met cheaply and safely via the solar thermal and geothermal pathway - Australia is blessed with these resources.

The only misgiving I have about solar energy is a question of design capacity. If the year we just had is to be typical of years to come, the actual power output of solar installations will be considerably downgraded.  

In this part of the world for example. , we didn't have a sunny day between September and Mid January.

muso wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 7:47am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 8:05pm: Australia's energy options can be met cheaply and safely via the solar thermal and geothermal pathway - Australia is blessed with these resources. The only misgiving I have about solar energy is a question of design capacity. If the year we just had is to be typical of years to come, the actual power output of solar installations will be considerably downgraded.   In this part of the world for example. , we didn't have a sunny day between September and Mid January.

And yet thorium could promise unlimited energy 24 hours a day.

I haven't looked into this enormously, but I did hear an interesting interview with a nuclear physicist this week, on the topic of Thorium reactors.

His assessment is that they are not as safe/innocuous as is being made out. While their reaction is more easily controlled in case of an emergency, the by-products of the reaction are far more radioactive than those from a uranium-nuclear reactor, albeit with a shorter half-life. I'll have to listen again to remember exactly, but he also mentioned that the by products have greater non-proliferation problems than the products of uranium reactors.

Thorium also release radon gas when stored, which obviously causes problems when storing fuel for the reactors.

His opinion was that they are promising, but not the panacea they are being made out to be, having both advantages and disadvantages compared to uranium-nuclear reactors.

NBNMyths wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 2:16pm:

I haven't looked into this enormously, but I did hear an interesting interview with a nuclear physicist this week, on the topic of Thorium reactors. His assessment is that they are not as safe/innocuous as is being made out. While their reaction is more easily controlled in case of an emergency, the by-products of the reaction are far more radioactive than those from a uranium-nuclear reactor, albeit with a shorter half-life. I'll have to listen again to remember exactly, but he also mentioned that the by products have greater non-proliferation problems than the products of uranium reactors. Thorium also release radon gas when stored, which obviously causes problems when storing fuel for the reactors. His opinion was that they are promising, but not the panacea they are being made out to be, having both advantages and disadvantages compared to uranium-nuclear reactors.

At least they can't melt down & they eat radioactive waste for breakfast!