Are there any Muslim inventions in the last 200 years?
Has there been any Muslim scientific innovation in the last 200 years?
Does the Muslim religion cause their culture to become backward?

What about the famous Muslim aviator who glued feathers to his arms and jumped off a tall building? When was that?

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2011 at 9:14am:

What about the famous Muslim aviator who glued feathers to his arms and jumped off a tall building? When was that?

I never heard of that.
There was one Muslim invention that I know of -
modern terrorism - flying aeroplanes into skyscrapers.

I think it's in Abu's pinned science thread. He explains all the great Muslim scientific achievements that western historians tend to gloss over.

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Are there any Muslim inventions in the last 200 years?

Probably not, since Islamic civilisation waned and began crumbling by then.


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Has there been any Muslim scientific innovation in the last 200 years?

Has there been any Roman scientific innovation in the last 200 years? Of course not, because like Islamic civilisation, Roman civilisation declined and vanished. Generally once civilisations cease to exist, they don't do a lot of scientific discovery... seems you're not that bright doesn't it?

However, unlike Roman civilisation, Islamic civilisation is a phoenix...


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Does the Muslim religion cause their culture to become backward?

Well let us examine the history and see...

For the first few generations, when Islam was the strongest in the people, Islamic civilisation soared dramatically. Going from being a bunch of goat herding nomads, to commanding an empire that stretched from the doorsteps of France to the doorsteps of China (ie. largest in all known human history). It constructed libraries that were filled with translations of all of the greatest knowledge mankind had accumulated, in many cases saving the works from extinction at the hands of the Europeans.

After about 1000 years, Islamic civilisation declined as the people began to fall away from Islam, so that in the early 20th. century when the entire Islamic world was colonised, and the Caliphate was dismantled, Muslims were pretty much complete culture servants to the West, adopting their ways and ideas wholesale. One only has to watch early Arabic cinema to see how much they copied and imitated the West.

But now by the grace of God, the Muslims woke up from that nightmare, and are once again mobilising to revive Islam. And this is what worries the West isn't it? The fear Muslims might revive themselves, and abandon their formerly slavish imitation of the West. And so we'll see as islamic civilisation rises again from its own ashes, that Islam is the only thing that ever raised the Arabs and others up to the heights they achieved. Prior to Islam they were nothing, and after it they are nothing....

History speaks for itself. But some are deaf, dumb, and blind, not in their senses, but in their hearts.

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2011 at 11:47am:

I think it's in Abu's pinned science thread. He explains all the great Muslim scientific achievements that western historians tend to gloss over.

Hi Freediver,
I am well aware of how advanced the Muslims were many centuries ago
because I am an amateur astronomer & I also read Abu's science thread.

Anyway - Abu has admitted that they have now declined.
I think my guess of 200 years is about right for no innovation at all.
I doubt if they will rise again.
I saw a Muslim school on TV from - Somalia  or was it Yemen?
The kids weren't taught anything at all but how to
recite & write the Koran by heart.
I felt so sorry for those kids.
Brainwashing little kids is a crime in my book.
They will never advance like that.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 10:52pm:

Are there any Muslim inventions in the last 200 years? Has there been any Muslim scientific innovation in the last 200 years? Does the Muslim religion cause their culture to become backward?

Lots of suicide bombing and IED type innovations, various counter measures for countermeasures, that sort of thing.

Not much else.

Quote:

Anyway - Abu has admitted that they have now declined. I think my guess of 200 years is about right for no innovation at all.

Declined and vanished. The Islamic state system, was abolished officially in 1924, but for its last 100 years was in serious decline.


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I doubt if they will rise again.

Most analysts agree it's on the verge of being re-established.

It is the West's greatest fear, hence all the current attacks on Islam and the Muslim world, and the attempts to control and stifle progress in their countries.


Quote:

I saw a Muslim school on TV from - Somalia  or was it Yemen? The kids weren't taught anything at all but how to recite & write the Koran by heart. I felt so sorry for those kids. Brainwashing little kids is a crime in my book. They will never advance like that.

And I'm really sure the reporters objectively reported about their entire curriculum.


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modern terrorism

Really? So the Zionist militant groups that bombed the King David Hotel and carried out various other attacks during their attempts to steal Palestine were not considered terrorists? Because the British certainly called them that.


Quote:

flying aeroplanes into skyscrapers.

I think that was a Christian American invention

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 19^th, 2011 at 7:50pm:

Quote: Anyway - Abu has admitted that they have now declined. I think my guess of 200 years is about right for no innovation at all. Declined and vanished. The Islamic state system, was abolished officially in 1924, but for its last 100 years was in serious decline. [quote]I doubt if they will rise again.

Most analysts agree it's on the verge of being re-established.

It is the West's greatest fear, hence all the current attacks on Islam and the Muslim world, and the attempts to control and stifle progress in their countries.


Quote:

I saw a Muslim school on TV from - Somalia  or was it Yemen? The kids weren't taught anything at all but how to recite & write the Koran by heart. I felt so sorry for those kids. Brainwashing little kids is a crime in my book. They will never advance like that.

And I'm really sure the reporters objectively reported about their entire curriculum.


Quote:

modern terrorism

Quote:

Really? So the Zionist militant groups that bombed the King David Hotel and carried out various other attacks during their attempts to steal Palestine were not considered terrorists? Because the British certainly called them that.

Quote:

flying aeroplanes into skyscrapers.

I think that was a Christian American invention[/quote]



Quote:

Most analysts agree it's on the verge of being re-established.

I don't - unless the current wave of revolution in Arab countries
gives them secular democratic societies - they are doomed.



Quote:

And I'm really sure the reporters objectively reported about their entire curriculum.

They made a point of saying that that was the only study they did - reciting & writing the Koran.


Quote:

Really? So the Zionist militant groups that bombed the King David Hotel and carried out various other attacks during their attempts to steal Palestine were not considered terrorists? Because the British certainly called them that.

By modern terrorism I meant - involving aeroplanes.
What about the hijack of the PLO & the  jets blown up on the ground in 1970?
http://middleeastfacts.com/middle-east/popular-front-for-the-liberation-of-palestine.php

Quote:

The most outstanding terrorist attack from this period was the concurrent hijacking of four western passenger airliners to Jordan. On 6 September 1970 the PFLP, acting on the instructions of Wadi’ Haddad simultaneously hijacked a Swissair DC-8 and a TWA Boeing 707. Six days later, this was followed by the hijacking of a BOAC VC-10. The aircraft were forced to land at Dawson Field, 30 miles from Amman, which the hijackers renamed “Revolutionary Airport.” Meanwhile another PFLP hijack team attempted to hijack an El Al plane, but was foiled by the pilot, who put the plane into a steep dive, and the quick action of a sky marshal and some of the passengers who overwhelmed the hijackers. Instead, the PFLP managed to hijack a Pan American Boeing 747, which was flown to Cairo. All of the planes were blown up on the ground after the passengers were evacuated.

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I think that was a Christian American invention

[/quote]
That wasn't terrorism Abu - don't try & re-write history.
That guy wanted insurance money for his family.

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I don't - unless the current wave of revolution in Arab countries gives them secular democratic societies - they are doomed.

The protests are _against_ the enforced secular Western puppet regimes. The Muslims do no want secularism, plain and simple.


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They made a point of saying that that was the only study they did - reciting & writing the Koran.

They could tell you anything and you'd believe it, since you can't actually understand what's being said, and just rely on the translation. Also keep in mind even if it's the case, it's one school, not the entire society. If you think every single school is like that in the Muslim world, then you're a git.


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By modern terrorism I meant - involving aeroplanes.

So when someone says terrorism, we should instantly assume "terrorism with airplanes"?


Quote:

By modern terrorism I meant - involving aeroplanes. What about the hijack of the PLO & the  jets blown up on the ground in 1970?

A few points you obviously didn't think about there. Firstly the hijackings were by the PFLP, not the PLO (slight oversight on your part?) secondly, the PFLP has absolutely no link to Islam or Islamic ideology whatsoever, as per their own description, they are a Palestinian Marxist national liberation movement. Thirdly, the group was founded by George Habash, who is a Palestinian Christian... now if I were to use these facts to turn around and claim Christians invented hijackings, I think you'd disagree right? Clearly you are making quite unjust arguments here, arguments which you'd argue the complete opposite when you realise it is actually the reverse of what you thought it was.

Interestingly if one examines the list of 24 of the most prominent terrorist attacks during the 1970's (by terrorist attacks I mean plane hijackings, as you stipulated above is your criteria for what does constitute a terrorist attack), seems none of them were carried out by Muslims/Islamists...

List of Aircraft Hijackings: 1970s

Marxists
* January 1, 1970: a Cruzeiro do Sul Sud Aviation SE-210 Caravelle VI R en route from Montevideo to Rio de Janeiro, with 33 occupants aboard, was hijacked by 6 persons who demanded to be flown to Cuba. The flight was diverted to Lima, Panama City and arrived in Havana two days later. There were no victims.

American/Suicidal?
* United States March 17, 1970: Eastern Air Lines Shuttle Flight 1320, carrying passengers from Newark to Boston was hijacked around 7:30 P.M. by John J. Divivo who was armed with a .38 caliber revolver. Captain Robert Wilbur Jr., 35, a former Air Force pilot who had only been promoted to captain six months prior, was shot in his arm by the suicidal hijacker.

Marxists
* March 31, 1970: Japan Airlines Flight 351, carrying 131 passengers and 7 crew from Tokyo to Fukuoka, is hijacked by nine members of the Japanese Red Army group.

Marxists
* July 1, 1970: a Cruzeiro do Sul Sud Aviation SE-210 Caravelle VI R registration PP-PDX en route from Rio de Janeiro to São Paulo with 31 occupants was hijacked by 4 persons who demanded the release of political prisoners that were to be taken to Cuba.

Marxists
* September 1970: As part of the Dawson's Field hijackings, PFLP members attempted to hijack four aircraft simultaneously. They succeeded on three and forced the planes to fly to the Jordanian desert, where the hijackers blew up the aircraft after releasing most of the hostages.

Lithuanians? Now apparently Americans, interesting.
* October 15, 1970: Aeroflot Flight 244 was hijacked from Batumi, Adjar ASSR, Georgian SSR, to Trabzon, Turkey by a Lithuanian  national and his son. An air hostess was killed and some other crew were injured in a shootout. The hijackers later received American citizenship.

Kashmiri Seperatists
* January 30, 1971: Indian Airlines Fokker F27 on scheduled Srinagar-Jammu flight is hijacked to Lahore  by two self-proclaimed Kashmir Separatists. All passengers were released by February 2 and repatriated to India, but the aircraft was blown-up—leading to an India-Pakistan air-travel ban, and suspension of overflight rights until 1976.

Anti-Government Filipinos
* March, 1971: Philippine Airlines flight was hijacked in March 1971 by six students from the Mindanao State University, opposed to the Marcos government. The plane landed in Guangzhou  (Canton) in southern China, and the Chinese authorities let the students stay in the country. The plane was then allowed to fly back to the Philippines. No one was hurt.

No information, but ended up in West Germany
* May 1971: an IL-14 with 4 staff members and 16 passengers was hijacked by 6 men at the Oradea Airport (Romania), then forced to flew to Budapest (Hungary), then Vienna (Austria). The passengers and the crew were released in Vienna, while the hijackers flew to West Germany.

Amercan/Ransom
* November 24, 1971: A man who became known as D. B. Cooper hijacked Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 305, a Boeing 727-100 aircraft flying from Portland, OR, to Seattle, WA, received US$200,000 in ransom, and parachuted from the plane. The actual name of the hijacker remains unknown.

American/Ransom
* January 12, 1972: Braniff Flight 38, a Boeing 727, was hijacked as it departed Houston, Texas bound for Dallas, Texas. The lone armed hijacker, Billy Gene Hurst, Jr., allowed all 94 passengers to deplane after landing at Dallas Love Field but continued to hold the 7 crewmembers hostage, demanding to fly to South America and asking for US $2 million, parachutes, and jungle survival gear, amongst other items.

American/Ransom
* January 28, 1972: TWA Flight 2, Los Angeles to New York, was hijacked by con man and bank robber Garrett Trapnell while over Chicago. Trapnell demanded $306,800 in cash (to recoup the loss of a recent court case), the release of Angela Davis (as well as that of a friend of his who was also imprisoned), and clemency from President Richard Nixon.

American/Ransom?
* November 10, 1972: Southern Airways Flight 49, was hijacked by three men and flown to multiple locations in the United States, and one Canadian city. At one point, the hijackers threatened to fly the plane into the nuclear reactor at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, if their demands for $10 million in cash were not met.

Croatian/Fascists
* April 24, 1973: SAS DC 9 - Gunder Viking - with registration number LN-RLO on route from Torslanda, Gothenburg, Sweden, to Stockholm, Sweden, was hijacked five minutes after take off by 3 armed Croatian terrorists connected to Ustasja.

Already half way through, and I don't see any Islamist terrorists. Perhaps the Kashmiri separatists might have had some Islamist links, but it's not mentioned.

Seems that Marxists, greedy Americans, and variouos other nutjobs from around the globe were the founders of what you classify as terrorism.

Abu.

Quote:

Firstly the hijackings were by the PFLP, not the PLO (slight oversight on your part?) secondly, the PFLP has absolutely no link to Islam or Islamic ideology whatsoever, as per their own description, they are a Palestinian Marxist national liberation movement.

Abu - you love to re-write history.
There were plenty of Muslims in PFLP & they were part of the PLO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine

Quote:

PLO membershipThe PFLP joined the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the umbrella organization of the Palestinian national movement, in 1968, becoming the second-largest faction after Yassir Arafat's Fatah

Quote:

Abu - you love to re-write history.

Yes the PLO is an umbrella group, so technically the PFLP is part of it, but the PFLP alone carried out these attacks, not the PLO.

Both PFLP & Fatah are secular/socialist movements, which have no connection to Islam whatsoever.


Quote:

There were plenty of Muslims in PFLP & they were part of the PLO.

And all Nazis were Christians, so did Christianity carry out the holocaust?

Honestly, what kind of simpleton garbage is this?

Bobby in reply to Abu,

Quote:

I don't - unless the current wave of revolution in Arab countries gives them secular democratic societies - they are doomed.

Abu in reply to Bobby

Quote:

The protests are _against_ the enforced secular Western puppet regimes. The Muslims do no want secularism, plain and simple.

I have this gut feeling that most Muslims countries would love to
have a secular democratic society -
and not theocratic Islamic republics like Iran.
This is how they will advance like the Western countries & deep down they know it.



Bobby to Abu

Quote:

There were plenty of Muslims in PFLP & they were part of the PLO.

Abu to Bobby

Quote:

And all Nazis were Christians, so did Christianity carry out the holocaust? Abu to Bobby Honestly, what kind of simpleton garbage is this?

Hitler was a Catholic so in many ways Christians did carry out the holocaust.
Don't get me started on Catholics.
I see crazy religion behind too many of histories dark chapters.
Your reply is simplistic when you try to blame Christians for what the Palestinians did.
The Palestinians are nearly all Muslims - whenever they fire a rocket into
Israel they yell out Allah Akbar.
You'd try & tell me the rocketers were Christians too in your re-written world history.

Quote:

The Palestinians are nearly all Muslims - whenever they fire a rocket into Israel they yell out Allah Akbar.

What's this got to do with your idiotic assertion that Muslims invented terrorism (which according to you actually means plane hijacking) because a Marxist Palestinian movement founded by a christian hijacked some planes in the 1970's? Nevermind that plane hijackings had been occurring regularly since the 1950's, and that the first recorded hijacking was in the early 1930's.

Please respond to the absolute crap you posted before, and are now trying to dodge having to answer for.

Abu - why should I do what you want but you won't do what I want?


Quote:

Abu. [quote]I think that was a Christian American invention

Bobby.
That wasn't terrorism Abu - don't try & re-write history.
That guy wanted insurance money for his family.[/quote]

You never responded to me when I proved that you re-wrote history.

Anyway - whenever I see a doco with those Jet Airliners blown up in the desert
in  September 1970 I always see a photo of Yassar Arafat with a big frame around his image.
It's only you who has ever blamed Christians for it.

Quote:

Abu - why should I do what you want but you won't do what I want?

I've answered plenty of your questions here, just haven't gotten to that one yet, since it was in the post just prior to mine exposing your nonsense about the PFLP.


Quote:

You never responded to me when I proved that you re-wrote history.

I did not re-write anything, and you certainly didn't prove anything. You defined terrorism as plane hijacking, and that guy hijacked a plane and attempted to fly it into a civilian building. His motive was revenge against the company because it was about to fire him, not the insurance nonsense you concocted.

Regardless, his act was an act of terrorism, by your own definition. Nothing re-written, nothing proved, except the fact that you can't debate to save yourself.


Quote:

Anyway - whenever I see a doco with those Jet Airliners blown up in the desert in  September 1970 I always see a photo of Yassar Arafat with a big frame around his image.

That's nice, but what on earth has it got to do with your idiotic assertions that Islamists did it???


Quote:

It's only you who has ever blamed Christians for it.

My God, you're stupid. Where on earth did I blame Christians for it??? I stated the facts, it was carried out by Marxists. I merely highlighted that if we were to follow your half witted ideas that the religious background of the family of the individual was relevant, then the PFLP would be a Christian organisation, since its founder was George Habash, a Palestinian of Christian background.

Abu.

Quote:

You defined terrorism as plane hijacking

No I didn't but I did mention flying planes into skyscrapers -
do you remember 9/11 ?

Abu.

Quote:

That's nice, but what on earth has it got to do with your idiotic assertions that Islamists did it???

Wasn't Yassar Arafat a Muslim? - ahhh sorry - you're right - he was a Christian.

Also George Habash was just another religious nutcase in the Middle East
with plenty of Muslim friends.

Quote:

No I didn't but I did...

"By modern terrorism I meant - involving aeroplanes." --bobbythebat


Quote:

Wasn't Yassar Arafat a Muslim?

Even if he's a Muslim by birth (certainly not by practise) what on earth has it got to do with your idiotic claim that Islamists carried out an attack that was clearly and openly the work of Marxists? How thick can one person get?


Quote:

Also George Habash was just another religious nutcase in the Middle East

No he wasn't, he was a a Marxist, religion never had anything to do with his ideology and his struggle. Honestly I've never debated with anyone on here who's so far beyond the grasp of simple logical thought, except perhaps Grendel. And that's saying something.



Quote:

with plenty of Muslim friends.

Well if he had Muslim friends that settles it then, Islamists must've carried it out.

Abu.

Quote:

Even if he's a Muslim by birth (certainly not by practise) what on earth has it got to do with your idiotic claim that Islamists carried out an attack that was clearly and openly the work of Marxists?

I think Yassar Arafat hid behind a lot of PLO splinter groups so he could say -
I didn't do it.
This is just like Sinn Fein in Ireland - the Political wing of the IRA.
Of course only a fool would believe it.

Abu.

Quote:

No he wasn't, he was a a Marxist, religion never had anything to do with his ideology and his struggle.

Anyone who says that religion has nothing to do with terrorism in
the Middle East has no understanding of the situation there.

Abu.

Quote:

Well if he had Muslim friends that settles it then, Islamists must've carried it out.

I am glad we agree on that.

Quote:

I think Yassar Arafat hid behind a lot of PLO splinter groups so he could say - I didn't do it.

You're really a patience-tester are't you. Since Arafat was not an Islamist, what relevance does that folly have to do with the argument???


Quote:

Anyone who says that religion has nothing to do with terrorism in the Middle East has no understanding of the situation there.

You seem to have your time periods mixed up. Since the 1980's onwards, yes, religion (specifically Islam) has had a lot to do with the struggles in the Middle East. In the 1970's, and in the specific incident you mentioned, no it didn't. They were leftist marxist secularists, their ideology was far closer to yours than mine.


Quote:

I am glad we agree on that.

Simpleton.

Abu's advice on this forum.

Quote:

Keep it friendly. This is supposed to be a place for enlightened discussion, there's really no need for any nastyness, no matter how passionate we are about our respective views.

Abu's language directed at me so far on this one thread of only 2 pages:

Simpleton.
patience-tester
How thick can one person get?
your idiotic assertions
respond to the absolute crap you posted
what kind of simpleton garbage is this
then you're a git

;D

This is the man who Abu paints as an angel:

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=795&x_context=7

Quote:

Yasir Arafat is known to many as the “father of modern terrorism.” Below is a timeline of some of the key events of his life and terrorist acts with which he was associated. (Prepared by www.camera.org) Key Events in Yasir Arafat's Terrorist Career – Aug 4, 1929: Born in Cairo. Arafat, then named Muhammad Abdel Rahman Abdel Rauf al-Qudwa al-Husseini, is fifth child of prosperous merchant, Abdel Raouf al-Qudwa al-Husseini. – 1933: Arafat's mother dies. He and his infant brother are sent to live with uncle in Jerusalem. – Late 1950's: Arafat co-founds Fatah, the “Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine.” – Jan. 1, 1965: Fatah fails in its first attempted attack within Israel — the bombing of the National Water Carrier. – July 5, 1965: A Fatah cell plants explosives at Mitzpe Massua, near Beit Guvrin; and on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem near Kafr Battir. – 1965-1967: Numerous Fatah bomb attacks target Israeli villages, water pipes, railroads. Homes are destroyed and Israelis are killed. – July 1968: Fatah joins and becomes the dominant member of the PLO, an umbrella organization of Palestinian terrorist groups. – Feb. 4, 1969: Arafat is appointed Chairman of the Executive Committee of the PLO – Feb. 21, 1970: SwissAir flight 330, bound for Tel Aviv, is bombed in mid-flight by PFLP, a PLO member group. 47 people are killed. – May 8, 1970: PLO terrorists attack an Israeli schoolbus with bazooka fire, killing nine pupils and three teachers from Moshav Avivim – Sept. 6, 1970: TWA, Pan-Am, and BOAC airplanes are hijacked by PLO terrorists. – September 1970: Jordanian forces battle the PLO terrorist organization, driving its members out of Jordan after the group's violent activity threatens to destabilize the kingdom. The terrorists flee to Lebanon. This period in PLO history is called “Black September.” – May 1972: PFLP, part of the PLO, dispatches members of the Japanese Red Army to attack Lod Airport in Tel Aviv, killing 27 people. – Sept. 5, 1972: Munich Massacre —11 Israeli athletes are murdered at the Munich Olympics by a group calling themselves “Black September,”said to be an arm of Fatah, operating under Arafat's direct command. – March 1, 1973: Palestinian terrorists take over Saudi embassy in Khartoum. The next day, two Americans, including United States ambassador to Sudan Cleo Noel, and a Belgian were shot and killed. James J. Welsh, an analyst for the National Security Agency from 1969 through 1974, charged Arafat with direct complicity in these murders. – April 11, 1974: 11 people are killed by Palestinian terrorists who attack apartment building in Kiryat Shmona. – May 15, 1974: PLO terrorists infiltrating from Lebanon hold children hostage in Ma'alot school. 26 people, 21 of them children, are killed. – June 9, 1974: Palestinian National Council adopts “Phased Plan,” which calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state on any territory evacuated by Israel, to be used as a base of operations for destroying the whole of Israel. The PLO reaffirms its rejection of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, which calls for a “just and lasting peace” and the “right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.” – November 1974: PLO takes responsibility for the PDFLP's Beit She'an murders in which 4 Israelis are killed. – Nov. 13, 1974: Arafat, wearing a holster (he had to leave his gun at the entrance), addresses the U.N. General Assembly. – March 1975: Members of Fatah attack the Tel Aviv seafront and take hostages in the Savoy hotel. Three soldiers, three civilians and seven terrorists are killed. – March 1978: Coastal Road Massacre —Fatah terrorists take over a bus on the Haifa-Tel Aviv highway and kill 21 Israelis. – 1982: Having created a terrorist mini-state in Lebanon destabilizing that nation, PLO is expelled as a result of Israel's response to incessant PLO missile attacks against northern Israeli communities. Arafat relocates to Tunis. – Oct. 7, 1985: Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro is hijacked by Palestinian terrorists. Wheelchair-bound elderly man, Leon Klinghoffer, was shot and thrown overboard. Intelligence reports note that instructions originated from Arafat's headquarters in Tunis. – Dec. 12, 1988: Arafat claims to accept Israel's right to exist. – September 1993: Arafat shakes hands with Israeli Prime Minister Rabin, inaugurating the Oslo Accords. Arafat pledges to stop incitement and terror, and to foster co-existence with Israel, but fails to comply. Throughout the years of negotiations, aside from passing, token efforts, Arafat does nothing to stop Hamas, PFLP, and Islamic Jihad from carrying out thousands of terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. With Arafat's encouragement and financial support, groups directly under Arafat's command, such as the Tanzim and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, also carry out terror attacks.

& the timeline goes on & on if you click the link at the top.

Quote:

This is the man who Abu paints as an angel:

I've painted him as an angel? Care to point out where?


Quote:

Abu's language directed at me so far on this one thread of only 2 pages:

Deriding people for not having the basic intelligence to recognise what they're debating about is permissible in the Islam forum. Perhaps I should add that as a note. Idiocy is not excused in any way.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 20^th, 2011 at 4:22pm:

Abu's advice on this forum. Quote: Keep it friendly. This is supposed to be a place for enlightened discussion, there's really no need for any nastyness, no matter how passionate we are about our respective views. Abu's language directed at me so far on this one thread of only 2 pages: Simpleton. patience-tester How thick can one person get? your idiotic assertions respond to the absolute crap you posted what kind of simpleton garbage is this then you're a git ;D

Bobby

Clearly (and unfortunately) Abu has breached his very own forum guidelines.

The good news is that the Mods of other forums are nothing like this.

If anything .. they go to great lengths to enforce their guidelines without fear or favour.

Kind regards

Lisa

Abu does seem to set much higher standards for other people than he does for himself. I guess you can afford to do that when Allah is on your side.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 20^th, 2011 at 6:04pm:

Quote: This is the man who Abu paints as an angel: I've painted him as an angel? Care to point out where? [quote]Abu's language directed at me so far on this one thread of only 2 pages:

Deriding people for not having the basic intelligence to recognise what they're debating about is permissible in the Islam forum. Perhaps I should add that as a note. Idiocy is not excused in any way.[/quote]


Abu,

Quote:

I've painted him as an angel? Care to point out where?

Well admit that Yassar Arafat was the father of modern terrorism
& that he was an Islamic extremist.
Not the mealy mouthed reply you gave below which admonishes Arafat of all responsibility.
Ok - angel -  a bit of hyperbole but it gets the point across.

Quote:

Where on earth did I blame Christians for it??? I stated the facts, it was carried out by Marxists. I merely highlighted that if we were to follow your half witted ideas that the religious background of the family of the individual was relevant, then the PFLP would be a Christian organisation, since its founder was George Habash, a Palestinian of Christian background.

On the point of you breaking your own politeness rules.
There are 2 posts above agreeing with me.

Stick that in ya pipe & smoke it Abu.  :)

Quote:

Well admit that Yassar Arafat was the father of modern terrorism

He was a nationalist freedom fighter, wouldn't say terrorist. I certainly don't think he was an angel though, filthy  sell-out swine is more the term I'd use.


Quote:

& that he was an Islamic extremist.

You'd have to have your cranium firmly planted in your rectum to think he was Islamic in any sense of the word.


Quote:

Not the mealy mouthed reply you gave below which admonishes Arafat of all responsibility.

The fact is the act you mentioned was carried out by the PFLP. Just admit you got it wrong, and move on.

The fact some sources state the PLO did it is just an issue of their lack of accuracy, yes a group _from_ the PLO did commit the act, and they're called the PFLP. Why is it so hard to just admit you fudged it?

Abu,

Quote:

He was a nationalist freedom fighter, wouldn't say terrorist. I certainly don't think he was an angel though, filthy  sell-out swine is more the term I'd use.

When I google the two phrases in one sentence
" Yasser Arafat"    " father of modern terrorism "
I get 12,800 hits.
This is another example of you - Abu, re-writing history.

Abu.

Quote:

You'd have to have your cranium firmly planted in your rectum to think he was Islamic in any sense of the word.

I thought he prayed in the direction of Mecca & yelled out Allah Akbar every day.
That makes him a muslim in my book.
This is a further example of you - Abu, re-writing history.

He and his party are secular. Their ideology is socialism, and has nothing to do with Islam. I thought he prayed in the direction of Washington, not Makkah.

yes what have they invented other than new ways of killing people ??

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 20^th, 2011 at 10:43pm:

yes what have they invented other than new ways of killing people ??

That's what I think Nail.
The Muslims invented modern terrorism.
That's why I found 12,800 hits for
" Yasser Arafat"    " father of modern terrorism "
on Google.

It seems all they can do is invent new ways to terrorise people.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 20^th, 2011 at 10:47pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 20th, 2011 at 10:43pm: yes what have they invented other than new ways of killing people ?? That's what I think Nail. The Muslims invented modern terrorism. That's why I found 12,800 hits for " Yasser Arafat"    " father of modern terrorism " on Google. It seems all they can do is invent new ways to terrorise people.

they seem to like to follow the primitive aspects of the old Quran but they are pretty quick to grab hold of the latest technology courtesy of their western foes ;) How come they don't find western technology offensive ??

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/ginasanders/ginasanders1009/ginasanders100900129/7808423-example-picture-islam-muslim-burqa-is-with-obscured.jpg

Muslims have always employed the latest technologies, except for during the period of decline, when some ignorants became anti-technology.

Technologies are not specific to any culture. The British do not own the laws of gravity, simply because Isaac Newton codified them. The laws of gravity are universal, and operate the same in China as they do in Britain.

lastnail, why the picture of the lady? If you have no reason for it to be there, then it shall be removed.

Abu,

Quote:

And so we'll see as islamic civilisation rises again from its own ashes, that Islam is the only thing that ever raised the Arabs and others up to the heights they achieved.

That is only wishful thinking.
Just like the Romans & the Greeks they are doomed.
Abu - I suggest you read a book called "The Rise & Fall of the Roman Empire"
You'll see how they descended into violence just like the Arabs & that was the end of them.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 7:08am:

Muslims have always employed the latest technologies, except for during the period of decline, when some ignorants became anti-technology. Technologies are not specific to any culture. The British do not own the laws of gravity, simply because Isaac Newton codified them. The laws of gravity are universal, and operate the same in China as they do in Britain. lastnail, why the picture of the lady? If you have no reason for it to be there, then it shall be removed.

If that's the case then how come you lot haven't invented and contributed to any of it ??

How can you lot take science and engineering seriously if you are still behaving like Neanderthals and following everything in some old book that was written 1000's of years ago !!

And in case you hadn't noticed the lady in the picture is holding a modern piece of WESTERN technology in her hand whilst wearing a bit of clothing which dates back to the stone age times !!  

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 19^th, 2011 at 7:50pm:

Quote: Anyway - Abu has admitted that they have now declined. I think my guess of 200 years is about right for no innovation at all. Declined and vanished. The Islamic state system, was abolished officially in 1924, but for its last 100 years was in serious decline. [quote]I doubt if they will rise again.

Most analysts agree it's on the verge of being re-established.

It is the West's greatest fear, hence all the current attacks on Islam and the Muslim world, and the attempts to control and stifle progress in their countries.


Quote:

I saw a Muslim school on TV from - Somalia  or was it Yemen? The kids weren't taught anything at all but how to recite & write the Koran by heart. I felt so sorry for those kids. Brainwashing little kids is a crime in my book. They will never advance like that.

And I'm really sure the reporters objectively reported about their entire curriculum.


Quote:

modern terrorism

Really? So the Zionist militant groups that bombed the King David Hotel and carried out various other attacks during their attempts to steal Palestine were not considered terrorists? Because the British certainly called them that.


Quote:

flying aeroplanes into skyscrapers.

I think that was a Christian American invention[/quote]

Dont forget stoning, cutting off hands, decaptitaions etc etc...

Quote:

Technologies are not specific to any culture. The British do not own the laws of gravity, simply because Isaac Newton codified them. The laws of gravity are universal, and operate the same in China as they do in Britain.

Yes but universal laws aren't 'technologies'......

Newton just wrote down his observations of something that was happening already..

Whereas, for example, Bell actually designed and constructed a device, which he patented....so Bell's piece of technology and the designs did in fact belong TO him..

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 11:09pm:

Quote: Technologies are not specific to any culture. The British do not own the laws of gravity, simply because Isaac Newton codified them. The laws of gravity are universal, and operate the same in China as they do in Britain. Whereas, for example, Bell actually designed and constructed a device, which he patented....so Bell's piece of technology and the designs did in fact belong TO him..

Which decades later a certain group of nutters are now using in IED's and suicide bombings.