"As many as 30 suspected asylum seekers are feared dead after their boat smashed against jagged rocks on Christmas Island, off the north-west coast of Australia".

I believe the actual figure of the dead maybe be lower, around 12, the fact remains.. Labor can no longer hide. There is blood on the Labor Party hands and it's purely due to a flawed policy plus the Labor inability to simply say.."We were wrong and we will change back to the tried and proven Liberal Party policy regarding illegal boats entering our waters.

Wake up Ms Gillard. This latest situation off Christmas Island is only the one we know about. How many other poor souls have perished at sea, because of your useless policy, before they even got into Australian waters? >:(

Both old parties must stop this game of political kicking of refugees.


Both are as bad as each other.


Time for a radical shift ... Refugees are a part of life and how we treat them is a reflection on our humanity.  

lefty voters - this is one early consequence of your retarded votes.

you live in a fairy land, others don't though

Quote:

Labor can no longer hide. There is blood on the Labor Party hands

You REALLY wanna play in the gutter ?



I Remember SIEVX
& the Nine Years Passed
since the Sinking
by Marg Hutton
19 October 2010

I remember the 146 children, 142 women and 65 men who drowned on the high seas seeking refuge in Australia nine years ago today. This tragedy swept away entire families and scattered the few dozen survivors to the four corners of the globe.

I remember Sadiq who struggled all night to stay afloat with his baby daughter Kauthar on his shoulders; his bravery, care and concern for his child in stark contrast to the lies and slurs of the government of the time who falsely claimed asylum seekers were throwing their children overboard to emotionally blackmail their way into Australia. (Sadiq and Kauthar were resettled in Finland.)

I remember Sabah, the last man to be rescued, the 45th survivor, who fought for his life in the water for two whole nights before being found. He lost his wife and two children and was the only one left alive of a group of about 20 who all perished on their planks waiting for rescue. (Sabah now lives in Norway.)

I remember Zaynab, the twelve year old girl who lost both her parents and all her brothers and sisters to the Indian Ocean. She was the first of the SIEVX survivors to be granted entry to Australia. (She lived here with extended family for several years but returned permanently to Iran some time ago.)

I remember Ammar, the twelve year old boy whose mother, brother, three sisters, uncle, aunt and two cousins all lost their lives on SIEVX. (Ammar has been trying to make it all on his own in Canada for years now since his father remarried and returned to Iraq.)

I remember Faris who lost his beloved wife and daughter on SIEVX. He was one of only seven survivors of the sinking who were granted residence in Australia. Even now, years later, he still sometimes wakes in the night screaming from all he has endured.


http://www.sievx.com/

Cmon Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 7:40pm:

"As many as 30 suspected asylum seekers are feared dead after their boat smashed against jagged rocks on Christmas Island, off the north-west coast of Australia". I believe the actual figure of the dead maybe be lower, around 12, the fact remains.. Labor can no longer hide. There is blood on the Labor Party hands and it's purely due to a flawed policy plus the Labor inability to simply say.."We were wrong and we will change back to the tried and proven Liberal Party policy regarding illegal boats entering our waters. Wake up Ms Gillard. This latest situation off Christmas Island is only the one we know about. How many other poor souls have perished at sea, because of your useless policy, before they even got into Australian waters? >:(

These, and other similar tragic deaths are directly attributal to the weak policies that encourage people smuggling.

and this happened a LOT less often under howard than under krudd or judas

Cmon Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 7:40pm:

"As many as 30 suspected asylum seekers are feared dead after their boat smashed against jagged rocks on Christmas Island, off the north-west coast of Australia". I believe the actual figure of the dead maybe be lower, around 12, the fact remains.. Labor can no longer hide. There is blood on the Labor Party hands and it's purely due to a flawed policy plus the Labor inability to simply say.."We were wrong and we will change back to the tried and proven Liberal Party policy regarding illegal boats entering our waters. Wake up Ms Gillard. This latest situation off Christmas Island is only the one we know about. How many other poor souls have perished at sea, because of your useless policy, before they even got into Australian waters? >:(

This outpouring of disingenuous compassion from those on the far right of politics is going to get pretty sickening.
The opportunity to make spurious claims about Gillard having blood on her hands was, with indecent haste, the first response on talkback radio, as soon as the tragedy was reported.
These people whose sole agenda was in seeking to find political advantage from the deaths of theses refugees.
These same right wing clowns that are feigning concern over these deaths, are the same type of extremist as those who suggest that the middle east should be bombed, back to the stone age.

All throughout the conflicts, they have shown very little real empathy for the very many thousands that have died in the region these people are fleeing from, so excuse me if I do not accept as genuine, your crocodile tears flowing now.

no tears from me, sport

Have to wonder about what looks like a troll who's first and only post is to start a topic to politicise this sad occurrence.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 8:31pm:

and this happened a LOT less often under howard than under krudd or judas

You've got those figures handy ?




Howard Government - 365 on first investigation
Can you beat that - with Rudd and Gillard ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 9:02pm:

no tears from me, sport

Is that an original line, or borrowed from pre-WW2 German nationalists, regarding the Jews ?

yes fkwt, there are record amounts of boats arriving under the leftard govt.

you guess how many have sunk at sea

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 9:51pm:

yes fkwt, there are record amounts of boats arriving under the leftard govt. you guess how many have sunk at sea

You tell ME, you made the claim
And look up the number of lives lost, while you're at it

in the last years of the howard govt there were 6 boat arrivals.
this year, well over 100 so far.

go figure the deaths on the open ocean.

To blame this on our Government we would of course have to over look all the factors that have lead these people to leave their country in the first place and that they would have left for somewhere anyhow.

That aside for a moment, it appears that the Liberals actually enjoy the boats and have no regard for the people upon them other than to use them as political ammunition.

Their stance:

the issue of asylum seekers was ''fantastic'' for the Coalition and ''the more boats that come the better''

Yes, it is really "fantastic"  ::)

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/us-slams-political-games-on-refugees-20101215-18y9s.html?skin=text-only

SIEV X
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
SIEV X stands for Suspected Illegal Entry Vessel X. SIEV is the acronym used by the surveillance authority for any boat that has entered Australian waters without prior authorisation and the X is a designation where a tracking number has not or is yet to be assigned, in accordance with Australian Government orders.[1] It is also used by Tony Kevin,[2] to refer to a dilapidated Indonesian fishing boat that was en-route from Sumatra to Christmas Island carrying over 400 asylum seekers. It sank in international waters on 19 October 2001, just south of the Indonesian island of Java, killing 353 people. The tragedy was politically controversial in Australia, as it occurred during an election campaign at a time when asylum seekers and border protection were major issues.

Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Sinking
3 Senate Select Committee
4 SIEV X Memorial
5 Notes
6 See also
7 Further reading
8 External links


[edit] Background
The SIEV-X incident occurred during the 2001 Australian Federal election campaign. The Tampa affair had focused national media's attention on the issue of asylum seekers. Prime Minister John Howard claimed his policy would prevent people smuggling and stop the boats of asylum seekers from arriving in Australia. The Howard Government had issued instructions to the Royal Australian Navy and the Australian Federal Police (AFP) to prevent any refugees from reaching Australia via boat. The AFP set about a campaign of disrupting organised people smugglers who operated with overcrowded and dangerous boats. The Royal Australian Navy began intercepting boats that entered Australian waters and transferring all people to Christmas Island

[edit] Sinking
On 18 October 2001, a small, unnamed 19.5m by 4m Indonesian fishing boat departed Bandar Lampung, Indonesia, with 421 passengers onboard. On the 19th, the boat sank during a storm in Indonesian waters about 70 km south of Java. The area was legally international waters but within both Indonesia's EEZ and Indonesia's internationally designated zone of search and rescue responsibility. It also fell inside a temporary Australian border protection surveillance area around the Australian external territory of Christmas Island (which is some 1700 km from mainland Australia). This latter designation was an internal planning and operational tool used by the Australian authorities to deter people smuggling. It had no legal validity and conferred no responsibility in international law. At the time, no Australian aerial reconnaissance flights were mounted because of storm weather, the nearest Australian vessel was hundreds of kilometres away, there was confusion about various boats, and it was thought this particular SIEV had probably returned to Indonesia.[citation needed]

Approximately 146 children, 142 women and 65 men died. On the 20th, 44 survivors were rescued by an Indonesian fishing boat, the Indah Jaya Makmur. A 45th survivor was rescued about twelve hours later by another boat, the Surya Terang.[3].

[edit] Senate Select Committee
On 20 February 2002, the Australian Senate Select Committee inquiring into ‘A Certain Maritime Incident’ met for the first time. Its primary task was to investigate the children overboard affair, however its terms of reference also included investigating “operational procedures observed by the Royal Australian Navy and by relevant Commonwealth agencies to ensure the safety of asylum seekers on vessels entering or attempting to enter Australian waters”.

The committee investigated the SIEV-X sinking, and concluded that "... it [is] extraordinary that a major human disaster could occur in the vicinity of a theatre of intensive Australian operations and remain undetected until three days after the event, without any concern being raised within intelligence and decision making circles." While no government department was found to be to blame for the tragedy, the Committee was surprised that there had been no internal investigations into any systemic problems which could have allowed the Australian government to prevent it from occurring.

[edit] SIEV X Memorial

the facts are those people smugglers responsible for this tragedy were jailed..the Aust govt did do something to stop these evil people from preying on desperate people...however someone saw fit to put a stop to that.and now its a no holds barred environment for people smugglers.

dont tell me any of you so called bleeding hearts are any more concerned about this  than anyone else...it was an accident waiting in the wings.. we are just bloody lucky there havent been a lot more,.

We will never know how many lives have been lost over the last few decades, but I think Labor will have a serious rethink about their current policy on asylum seekers.

They will have no choice now.

Infarction wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 5:56am:

To blame this on our Government we would of course have to over look all the factors that have lead these people to leave their country in the first place and that they would have left for somewhere anyhow. That aside for a moment, it appears that the Liberals actually enjoy the boats and have no regard for the people upon them other than to use them as political ammunition. Their stance: the issue of asylum seekers was ''fantastic'' for the Coalition and ''the more boats that come the better'' Yes, it is really "fantastic"  ::) http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/us-slams-political-games-on-refugees-20101215-18y9s.html?skin=text-only

typical comment from the left..wish I had a dollar for everytime the left have dragged up Tampa.. but never mind.. whats the old saying about people who live in glass house.?????

my stance on this from the moment I heard about it was IT SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED...if this bloody do nothing govt had actually done something... these people smugglers would have been stopped long ago..

instead we have something like 6000 a year now..and this you call compassion...well done, smashed on the rocks..

mantra wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:08am:

We will never know how many lives have been lost over the last few decades, but I think Labor will have a serious rethink about their current policy on asylum seekers. They will have no choice now.

so do you think thats a good idea.. or better left as it is????

I think it would be a good idea for the yanks and their cohorts to stop invading other countries for oil, then the people can live in their own lands. Who next? Iran? that's been on the cards for a while now, looks good for some oil. At least they'll have an excuse for going broke....fighting wars for the good of mankind.

While ever we have wars, we will have asylum seekers. We might even become asylum seekers in a few short years if we don't think seriously about letting go of America's apron strings.

Do we want to be smart and concentrate on making a good, safe country for ourselves, or do we want to hang out with the bully-boys and get dragged down with them?

Quote:

so do you think thats a good idea.. or better left as it is????

Like many Australians - whether from the left or right, the number of asylum seekers heading here has concerned me, but it was predicted in 2007 that there were at least 10,000 people waiting for boats.

One of the many reasons Howard was voted out was because of his harsh stance on refugees and now Labor has tried the alternative and it obviously isn't working.

The UN is also instrumental in directing our government to take certain action - so the blame for the policy change and the surge of refugees is not necessarily the government's fault.

I think there will be a further concerted push to get a centre set up in East Timor now. Gillard appears to be waiting for their consideration which I think will be accepted sooner now - rather than later.

Thanks Labor.
It has often been said that the removal of a working policy to install a failed policy was going to eventually cost lives one day.
And that day is here.
If Howards policy was left to stand, this would not have happened.

Julia Gillard's ignorance on this matter is amazing, but her childish stubborness is not.
Julia Gillard was forewarned that when they relaxed the Pacific Solution after 170 deaths had already occurred that more would die following due to her encouragement for the people smugglers to bring more. Gillard chose to ignore that advice, claiming "There is no evidence to support this figure".
Well Julia Gillard has the figures now!
But will Julia Gillard finally come to some sense and re-instate the Pacific Solution, or is her Death Solution meant to be the disincentive for people smugglers?

If you’re going to have policies which invite people in leaky boats to come here, then sooner or later this type of tragedy is going to happen.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:40am:

I think it would be a good idea for the yanks and their cohorts to stop invading other countries for oil, then the people can live in their own lands. Who next? Iran? that's been on the cards for a while now, looks good for some oil. At least they'll have an excuse for going broke....fighting wars for the good of mankind. While ever we have wars, we will have asylum seekers. We might even become asylum seekers in a few short years if we don't think seriously about letting go of America's apron strings. Do we want to be smart and concentrate on making a good, safe country for ourselves, or do we want to hang out with the bully-boys and get dragged down with them?

pansi I really think you have to stop this blame America and Oil for wars and people displacement..

look at the internal structure of most of these countries that people apparrantly flee.. Sri Lanka being one.. I dont recall the yanks invading that country..

why do these people leave their country that has been invaded by a viscious enemy [ USA +] for another one that is almost identical to America.and happens to be on the same side.

if the Americans are so bad and the reason for them fleeing??? wouldnt you think they would pick on an Arab country for shelter.one thats more honest and less aggressive.. I know I would.

I guess we can thank our lucky stars we dont have a horn of plenty when it comes to oil holdings..otherwise we could well be on their hit list!

viewpoint wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 7:12am:

If you’re going to have policies which invite people in leaky boats to come here, then sooner or later this type of tragedy is going to happen.

isnt anyone else amazed that this hasnt happened over and over again???

27 dead so far and they dont really know how many were on board, could be more than 100..ABC news

codswal wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 7:17am:

viewpoint wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:12am: If you’re going to have policies which invite people in leaky boats to come here, then sooner or later this type of tragedy is going to happen. isnt anyone else amazed that this hasnt happened over and over again??? 27 dead so far and they dont really know how many were on board, could be more than 100..ABC news

There's bene over 200 deaths sinch the dismantling of the Pacific Solution.
Where's Julian Burnside, David Marr, Jill Singer and all the other rent-a-crowd people complaining about this, and prior to this recent tragedy?
These people have been lured here, encouraged to come here by the Rudd/Gillard governments 'go soft' policy.
They silence is deafening from them.
Julia Gillard has blood on her hands!

What you risk reveals what you value.
Jeanette Winterson

Freedom is worth the risk to these people.....treating them inhumanly as a deterrent is immoral and goes against the grain of Australian society were we promote a fair go for everyone.....Australia has NOTHING to be proud of......we should be ashamed of the way we treat genuine refugees….who are we to decide what someone else’s freedom is worth???

>:(

Julia Gillard claims that it is too early to comment on, yet that hasn't stopped her ministers from blaming the navy.
And recall when the boat people blew their own boat up (Ashmore Reef) where 5 people died, the government said it wa stoo early to comment on, but again they blamed the navy in the meantime.
Now it will be no surprise to anyone that the first response from the lefties will be that the 'too soft' approach is too hard!
Guess we'll just have to bring them out each on their own private lear jet, and chauffeur driven veicle to and from the airport.

Howard lied when he claimed Siev X sunk in Indonesian waters......An Australian navy ship was the closest vessel to the sinking and the Howard government did nothing to prevent the tragedy despite knowing the vessel was in trouble......the truth is a lot different to the crap peddled by the right......Siev X was allowed to happen!!!

>:(

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 7:40am:

Howard lied when he claimed Siev X sunk in Indonesian waters......An Australian navy ship was the closest vessel to the sinking and the Howard government did nothing to prevent the tragedy despite knowing the vessel was in trouble......the truth is a lot different to the crap peddled by the right......Siev X was allowed to happen!!! >:(

Didn't the Indonesian Government receive very many Aussie dollars to prevent this type of tragedy -  where is the money - what is Indonesia doing about it ?

The other awful thing is  do we want the type of men in his country who would do what was reported by an eyewitness as follows :

"Then the boat crashed into the cliff. There was chaos in the water, there was small children, women. The men seemed to hug the life jackets and it was not a nice sight to see men pushing women away from life jackets, looking after themselves."

I am greatly saddened by this tragic event involving the loss of lives of many desperate people trying to escape from one hell to find themselves in another.

It is the current Australian Government's poor policy which has led to this.

They have weakened policy, strengthened the people smugglers and pretty, much directly caused this tragedy.

If they had any backbone they would admit this.

A tragic event which saddens many of us - and which could have easily been avoided.

Firstly- Here is a snippet (of course from an unknown KEY liberal party  source) written in the SMH~

"A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided exclusively to the Herald says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist'' told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was ''fantastic'' for the Coalition and ''the more boats that come the better''

& Secondly ,   Liberals need to remember ;
     
"The boat people started in the 70s with the refugees fleeing Vietnam and Cambodia after the Vietnam War. Yet, there was very little hysteria because it had bi-partisan support and wasnt made into a political football. In fact, there was a lot of compassion shown towards the boat people:
you can almost trace the moment it had become a political football, and the hysteria started, that was the moment John Howard uttered these words in 2001:

"We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come"

"A tragic event which saddens many of us"

More crocodile tears from the right.

Quote:

It is the current Australian Government's poor policy which has led to this.

I know we're in different time zones, but this claim has been looked into in another thread

Thgere were FAR more drownings under the PREVIOUS government

It was tacitly agreed to score political points on this tragedy, no further

nichy wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 7:53am:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:40am: Howard lied when he claimed Siev X sunk in Indonesian waters......An Australian navy ship was the closest vessel to the sinking and the Howard government did nothing to prevent the tragedy despite knowing the vessel was in trouble......the truth is a lot different to the crap peddled by the right......Siev X was allowed to happen!!! >:( Didn't the Indonesian Government receive very many Aussie dollars to prevent this type of tragedy -  where is the money - what is Indonesia doing about it ? The other awful thing is  do we want the type of men in his country who would do what was reported by an eyewitness as follows : "Then the boat crashed into the cliff. There was chaos in the water, there was small children, women. The men seemed to hug the life jackets and it was not a nice sight to see men pushing women away from life jackets, looking after themselves."

nichy were did the highlited bit come from

bwood1946 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:05am:

nichy wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:53am: philperth2010 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:40am: Howard lied when he claimed Siev X sunk in Indonesian waters......An Australian navy ship was the closest vessel to the sinking and the Howard government did nothing to prevent the tragedy despite knowing the vessel was in trouble......the truth is a lot different to the crap peddled by the right......Siev X was allowed to happen!!! >:( Didn't the Indonesian Government receive very many Aussie dollars to prevent this type of tragedy -  where is the money - what is Indonesia doing about it ? The other awful thing is  do we want the type of men in his country who would do what was reported by an eyewitness as follows : "Then the boat crashed into the cliff. There was chaos in the water, there was small children, women. The men seemed to hug the life jackets and it was not a nice sight to see men pushing women away from life jackets, looking after themselves." nichy were did the highlited bit come from

UN calls for refugee rethink
By Samantha Hawley

Posted 18 minutes ago

The United Nations refugee agency says yesterday's Christmas Island shipwreck reinforces the need for the international community to cooperate to find ways to stop perilous boat journeys.

At least 28 people died after an asylum seeker boat carrying up to 100 people was smashed against rocks by heavy seas on the shoreline near Flying Fish Cove.

UNHCR regional representative Richard Towle says the incident is a "tragic loss of innocent lives".

But he says he is not surprised the boat was able to reach Christmas Island without being detected.

"There have been a number of boats come pretty close to Christmas Island over the last 12 or 18 months, so I'm not terribly surprised," he said.

"I know that the sea conditions have been very, very rough.

"It's a very difficult and very dangerous undertaking that people have been undertaking."

Mr Towle would not be drawn on whether the Government's policy on asylum seekers had contributed to the tragedy.

"I don't think this is a time for recriminations around policy," he said.

"This is a moment for some rather sad reflection and compassion for those who have lost their lives.

"This is a terrible incident. I think in many ways it's something that has been anticipated. It could have happened more frequently, but for the grace of God has not."

Mr Towle says the incident was a stark reminder of the dangers involved for those seeking new lives.

"The fact that this boat has capsized against the edge of Christmas Island, it's a tragic reminder of how dangerous it is for people who've put their lives into the hands of people smugglers and boat movements coming to Australia," he said.

"There are innocent women and children on board these boats. And the seas at this time of the year are very rough and dangerous.

"And we really do have to find options that will provide security and safety for people in other places, so that the need for protection through boat movements is reduced."

Tags: immigration, disasters-and-accidents, maritime-accidents, emergency-incidents, government-and-politics, federal-government, foreign-affairs, refugees, australia, christmas-island

Welcome to the Annual Australian Grave Dancing Event
I don't know whose to blame
I don't know what has happened to my country over the past 20 years
All I know is we are not the same people we were.
I AM ASHAMED :'( :'(

You and I know its the same everywhere Smithy.

In the UK we have the Somali problem.
In California we have the Mexican problem.
France has the North African problem.
Germany the Turkish problem.

etc etc etc

Quote:

The United Nations refugee agency says yesterday's Christmas Island shipwreck reinforces the need for the international community to cooperate to find ways to stop perilous boat journeys

It WILL continue as long as UN declared refugees continue to live out their lives in sub-human standard refugee prisons in Indonesia and Sri-Lanka in the so called "queue"

Quote:

........"I don't think this is a time for recriminations around policy," he said.........

typical idiotic leftard UN comment by an unproductive highly paid paper pusher

it's THE time for policy recriminations.
the right policy, and this'ld not happen, or happen very rarely

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:24am:

Quote: The United Nations refugee agency says yesterday's Christmas Island shipwreck reinforces the need for the international community to cooperate to find ways to stop perilous boat journeys It WILL continue as long as UN declared refugees continue to live out their lives in sub-human standard refugee prisons in Indonesia and Sri-Lanka in the so called "queue"

You STILL don`t get it. People are dying in unseaworthy boats, AND Australia has the capacity to do next to nothing to alleviate the refugee problem.

bwood1946 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:05am:

nichy wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:53am: philperth2010 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:40am: Howard lied when he claimed Siev X sunk in Indonesian waters......An Australian navy ship was the closest vessel to the sinking and the Howard government did nothing to prevent the tragedy despite knowing the vessel was in trouble......the truth is a lot different to the crap peddled by the right......Siev X was allowed to happen!!! >:( Didn't the Indonesian Government receive very many Aussie dollars to prevent this type of tragedy -  where is the money - what is Indonesia doing about it ? The other awful thing is  do we want the type of men in his country who would do what was reported by an eyewitness as follows : "Then the boat crashed into the cliff. There was chaos in the water, there was small children, women. The men seemed to hug the life jackets and it was not a nice sight to see men pushing women away from life jackets, looking after themselves." nichy were did the highlited bit come from

The local witnesses will be long haunted by the scenes.

"I rang the police straight away to let them know what was going on," said one, John."The next thing you know there was probably 20 of us down at the water. I was yelling out, 'Start your motor!' They said it was dead. These people were in big trouble."

The passengers were being buffeted across the deck by the swell. After the impact, the air filled with diesel fumes.

Amid the lifejackets and broken palings bobbed the heads of passengers. Onlookers struggled to distinguish the victims from the debris. About half a dozen passengers clung to large chunks of the hull which, though submerged, had remained intact.

"A lot of them were praying - it was a frightening scene," John said of the moments before the boat was smashed.

"There was chaos in the water. There were small children. There were women.

"The men seemed to hug the life jackets. It was not a very nice sight to see men pushing women away from life jackets and really looking after themselves."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/at-least-27-dead-in-christmas-island-refugee-boat-crash-tragedy/story-e6frf7l6-1225971785443

Please delete wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 7:58am:

"A tragic event which saddens many of us" More crocodile tears from the right.

That was low Ernie.

no tears from me earnie.

and, no tears from anyone else here either.
can the claptrap - you never knew them.

going to have a weep for every death in the globe ???

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:15am:

Welcome to the Annual Australian Grave Dancing Event I don't know whose to blame I don't know what has happened to my country over the past 20 yearsAll I know is we are not the same people we were. I AM ASHAMED :'( :'(

Liberals accused of trying to rewrite history
Broadcast: 21/11/2001

With a third election victory under its belt, the Liberal Party machine has offered an alternative analysis on why it was returned to power. Not surprisingly, after a divisive campaign, the people who ran it are playing down the role of asylum seekers and the 'Tampa' crisis.

---------
Compere: Tony Jones
Reporter: Sarah Clarke



SARAH CLARKE: It was a familiar message spelt out by the PM throughout the campaign.

JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come.

SARAH CLARKE: A message repeated.

JOHN HOWARD (OCTOBER 29): What I am asserting is the right of this country to decide who comes here.

SARAH CLARKE: And if you missed that, there was a television advertisement.

JOHN HOWARD (ADVERTISMENT): We will decide who comes to this country.

SARAH CLARKE: But today, in an election post-mortem, Liberal Party mastermind Lynton Crosby, insisted the issue of border protection was not exploited as a campaign tool


In full ...

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2001/s422692.htm

nichy wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 7:53am:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:40am: Howard lied when he claimed Siev X sunk in Indonesian waters......An Australian navy ship was the closest vessel to the sinking and the Howard government did nothing to prevent the tragedy despite knowing the vessel was in trouble......the truth is a lot different to the crap peddled by the right......Siev X was allowed to happen!!! >:( Didn't the Indonesian Government receive very many Aussie dollars to prevent this type of tragedy -  where is the money - what is Indonesia doing about it ? The other awful thing is  do we want the type of men in his country who would do what was reported by an eyewitness as follows : "Then the boat crashed into the cliff. There was chaos in the water, there was small children, women. The men seemed to hug the life jackets and it was not a nice sight to see men pushing women away from life jackets, looking after themselves."

There is no respect for men, or women, or children where these people come from Niki, so they act accordingly. Chivalry is dead/dying in Australia also, it`s sadly an outdated tradition.

Political point scoring is very ordinary form Buzz.

Hey sprint, I agree somewhat.

They were fools to come by boat, they should have got on a plane.

They were fools in many ways.

But I won't be silent while hicks and others use such tragedy for partisan insult slanging.

One slander has been answered though - it wasn't a boat full of men who had left their families behind.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:30am:

Please delete wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:58am: "A tragic event which saddens many of us" More crocodile tears from the right. That was low Ernie.

I'd declare it a fair call


It's usually "blow them out of the water" or "leave them for shark bait" by the right

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:38am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 8:30am: Please delete wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:58am: "A tragic event which saddens many of us" More crocodile tears from the right. That was low Ernie. I'd declare it a fair call It's usually "blow them out of the water" or "leave them for shark bait" by the right

More cheap lies. The call from the "right" is "stop the boats from comming in the first place", which is more sensible than the teary eyed, impractical sentamentalism of the shallow thinkers.

"Political point scoring is very ordinary form Buzz. "

Ah, the Hicks I know and love.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:15am:

Welcome to the Annual Australian Grave Dancing Event I don't know whose to blame I don't know what has happened to my country over the past 20 years All I know is we are not the same people we were. I AM ASHAMED :'( :'(

You ought to be ashamed of the weak Government policy that encouraged people smuggling. These tragic deaths, and untold others lay at the feet of the ALP.  Don`t try do suffocate these objections by low life accusations ov insincerity, of these criticisms. These deaths must be stopped, you won`t silence the call to stop these deaths, no matter how politically inconvenient it is to you!

ww.refugeecouncil.org.au/docs/current/2010_party_election_policies.pdf

2.) REGIONAL APPROACH TO PROCESSING ASYLUM SEEKERS
On 6 July 2010, Prime Minister Julia Gillard announced that the Labor Government is pursuing a
regional approach to the processing of asylum seekers with the involvement of the United Nations
High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), as part of a sustainable regional protection framework.
This framework would build on work already underway through the Bali Process. Ms Gillard said
Labor would work towards an approach which “effectively eliminates the onshore processing of
unauthorised arrivals and ensures that anyone seeking asylum is subject to a consistent process of
assessment in the same place”.
If re-elected, Labor would introduce a regional processing centre to reduce the incentive for people
smugglers to send boats to Australia. The assessment processes would be consistent to ensure
that arriving by boat does not give an advantage in the likelihood that they would end up settling in
Australia or other countries of the region. Labor would require that the regional processing centre
be properly run, auspiced and structured, with the processing to take place in a country which has
ratified the Refugee Convention.
In announcing plans for a regional processing centre and for the development of a regional
protection framework, Prime Minister Julia Gillard said the Government’s policy goal is to “wreck
the people smuggling trade” by removing the incentive for boats carrying asylum seekers to leave
their port of origin in the first place: to remove both the profitability of the trade and the danger of
the voyage. The Government’s policy seeks to stop the boats before they leave ports on the
journey toward Australia. Ms Gillard does not support the idea of turning asylum boats back to the
country from which they have come, saying that such an approach would put asylum seekers and
Australia’s defence and customs personnel at risk. She says that Labor does not accept the idea of
punishing women and children by locking them up behind razor wire or ignoring people who are
fleeing genocide, torture, and persecution. This, she says, is not inconsistent with “our commitment
to secure borders and fair, orderly migration”.



It doesn't appear to be working Julia

aussie - yes, the left here and in power make me sick.

completely useless, impractical, expensive and a drain on the world.

Quote:

The call from the "right" is "stop the boats from comming in the first place

As is the aim of the LEFT

But the LEFT do not agree with the RIGHT'S "Final Solution" of life imprisonment on Nauru*


(* Nauru was paid per "unit" per week by the Australian Government

Nauru is NOT a signatory to the UN convention - and found it in their best financial interest to hold them as long as possible, despite having UN declared refugee status)

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:52am:

Julia Gillard's ignorance on this matter is amazing, but her childish stubborness is not. Julia Gillard was forewarned that when they relaxed the Pacific Solution after 170 deaths had already occurred that more would die following due to her encouragement for the people smugglers to bring more. Gillard chose to ignore that advice, claiming "There is no evidence to support this figure". Well Julia Gillard has the figures now! But will Julia Gillard finally come to some sense and re-instate the Pacific Solution, or is her Death Solution meant to be the disincentive for people smugglers?

She was an incompetent when she was in Rudd's Gang of Four.
Her promotion to the top job has not increased her level of competence.
As a result, she will not come to her senses.
She will continue to flap her gums and make promises she can't keep, and generally do nothing.

No they'd rather have them processed on a different foreign country....

:D

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:47am:

aussie - yes, the left here and in power make me sick. completely useless, impractical, expensive and a drain on the world.

Human life means nothing to these weak spirited rsoles, they are fanatically absorbed with their own agendas.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:36am:

nichy wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:53am: philperth2010 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 7:40am: Howard lied when he claimed Siev X sunk in Indonesian waters......An Australian navy ship was the closest vessel to the sinking and the Howard government did nothing to prevent the tragedy despite knowing the vessel was in trouble......the truth is a lot different to the crap peddled by the right......Siev X was allowed to happen!!! >:( Didn't the Indonesian Government receive very many Aussie dollars to prevent this type of tragedy -  where is the money - what is Indonesia doing about it ? The other awful thing is  do we want the type of men in his country who would do what was reported by an eyewitness as follows : "Then the boat crashed into the cliff. There was chaos in the water, there was small children, women. The men seemed to hug the life jackets and it was not a nice sight to see men pushing women away from life jackets, looking after themselves." There is no respect for men, or women, or children where these people come from Niki, so they act accordingly. Chivalry is dead/dying in Australia also, it`s sadly an outdated tradition.

This smacks of "Children overboard". Already inhumanity is desperately seeking a sprinkle of justification.

"Human life means nothing to these weak spirited rsoles"

More crocodile tears.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:52am:

No they'd rather have them processed on a different foreign country.... :D

Shirk the responsability ?
"Pass the buck" ?

The problem with Nauru, was that NONE were "processed"
Not until the defeat of the Howard Government

ww.refugeecouncil.org.au/docs/current/2010_party_election_policies.pdf
2.) REGIONAL APPROACH TO PROCESSING ASYLUM SEEKERS
On 6 July 2010, Prime Minister Julia Gillard announced that the Labor Government is pursuing a
regional approach to the processing of asylum seekers with the involvement of the United Nations
High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), as part of a sustainable regional protection framework.
This framework would build on work already underway through the Bali Process. Ms Gillard said
Labor would work towards an approach which “effectively eliminates the onshore processing of
unauthorised arrivals and ensures that anyone seeking asylum is subject to a consistent process of
assessment in the same place”.
If re-elected, Labor would introduce a regional processing centre to reduce the incentive for people
smugglers to send boats to Australia. The assessment processes would be consistent to ensure
that arriving by boat does not give an advantage in the likelihood that they would end up settling in
Australia or other countries of the region. Labor would require that the regional processing centre
be properly run, auspiced and structured, with the processing to take place in a country which has
ratified the Refugee Convention.
In announcing plans for a regional processing centre and for the development of a regional
protection framework, Prime Minister Julia Gillard said the Government’s policy goal is to “wreck
the people smuggling trade” by removing the incentive for boats carrying asylum seekers to leave
their port of origin in the first place: to remove both the profitability of the trade and the danger of
the voyage. The Government’s policy seeks to stop the boats before they leave ports on the
journey toward Australia. Ms Gillard does not support the idea of turning asylum boats back to the
country from which they have come, saying that such an approach would put asylum seekers and
Australia’s defence and customs personnel at risk. She says that Labor does not accept the idea of
punishing women and children by locking them up behind razor wire or ignoring people who are
fleeing genocide, torture, and persecution. This, she says, is not inconsistent with “our commitment
to secure borders and fair, orderly migration”.



It doesn't appear to be working Julia

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:52am:

No they'd rather have them processed on a different foreign country....

I do not like any of the off shore (pretend) solutions but at least going for a country which recognises the appropriate human standards is a small step forward.

This Lefty would like people processed here in Australia, like a grown up country, rather than foisting the refugees onto our neighbours.

I think our attitude is "precious" and I wonder why our neighbours co-operate.

Please delete wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:09am:

I think our attitude is "precious" and I wonder why our neighbours co-operate.

Because Australia is in Asia?
A region not exactly teeming with countries that count human rights high on their priority?

Indonesia, China, Burma, Laos, Thailand, PNG, Malaysia

I could go on and on.

You rightards disgust me, you put on crocodile tears while only two days ago at least three of you said "let the bastards drown at sea" "tow the boats back out to sea" you said that sprint ,and you call yourself a Christian,this country doesn't want your sort here.
What sort of country invades another and then when people flee here we treat them like this, if Australia had never illegally invaded Iraq many of those on board who died would still be alive.
This happened because that lying little rodent invaded Iraq, and the piss weak Labor party stayed there, both major parties are culpable, and you rightards trying to turn this into a political point score are nothing but assholes .

When did Australia invade Iran?

There are Iranians on that boat - what the bugger are they fleeing from? It certainly ain't a war.

And what about Sri Lankans? Australia invaded that island as well did they?

What about the Pakistanis who turn up (pretending to be Afghani)?
Australia's invaded Pakistan too?


LOL talk about take a wide brush....

"The opposition and the government put aside the bitter politics of an election fought over boat arrivals, saying it was not the time to debate policy."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/christmas-island-disaster-28-dead-amid-fears--toll-could-top--50-20101215-18ya5.html

Maybe a few here could follow the same general principle.

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:03am:

Quote: It is the current Australian Government's poor policy which has led to this. I know we're in different time zones, but this claim has been looked into in another thread Thgere were FAR more drownings under the PREVIOUS government It was tacitly agreed to score political points on this tragedy, no further

I'm assuming you are referring to the Howard government as the previous government and not Rudd there Buzz.
Given Howard was in government for 12 years, these stats are not unreasonable.
And not even the high level of gross incompetence from Rudd and then Gillard can change these stats in such a short time.
You probably need to ask yourself what the stats might look like after 12 years of Labors incompetence though.
Then we will see what's what.
What needs to be remembered is when Howards Pacific Solution was in full swing, we had 1 boat arrival in 2 years, 5 detainees on Nauru and closed down detention centres on the mainland.
And yet this country still took in 13,000 refugees who did not engage criminal gangs to smuggle them in.
It is from this high water mark we have come to sink down so low under Labor.
And now Labor has blood on it's hands.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:28am:

When did Australia invade Iran? There are Iranians on that boat - what the bugger are they fleeing from? It certainly ain't a war. And what about Sri Lankans? Australia invaded that island as well did they? What about the Pakistanis who turn up (pretending to be Afghani)? Australia's invaded Pakistan too? LOL talk about take a wide brush....

nice try but no cigar jungle jim,the people on this boat were from Iraq, a country Australia invaded with out UN sanctions. the others were from Iran, a country  the western govs of this world tell us is a despot regime, who wouldn't want to flee from there.
Dont fake it that you care,you disgust me. People who flee any of the countries you mention are fleeing war and/or persecution.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:21am:

You rightards disgust me, you put on crocodile tears while only two days ago at least three of you said "let the bastards drown at sea" "tow the boats back out to sea" you said that sprint ,and you call yourself a Christian,this country doesn't want your sort here. What sort of country invades another and then when people flee here we treat them like this, if Australia had never illegally invaded Iraq many of those on board who died would still be alive. This happened because that lying little rodent invaded Iraq, and the piss weak Labor party stayed there, both major parties are culpable, and you rightards trying to turn this into a political point score are nothing but assholes .

No, it happened because the Muslim psyco's in Iraq are blowing each other up and has little to do with our company of SAS troops or the training battalion.
Iran, Sri Lanka and all the other countries where these people come from have not seen our troops on their soil.
The Iraqi's are not here because of our soldiers actions, they are here because we have a weak government who's laws sponsor foreign criminal people smugglers.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:47am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:28am: When did Australia invade Iran? There are Iranians on that boat - what the bugger are they fleeing from? It certainly ain't a war. And what about Sri Lankans? Australia invaded that island as well did they? What about the Pakistanis who turn up (pretending to be Afghani)? Australia's invaded Pakistan too? LOL talk about take a wide brush.... nice try but no cigar jungle jim,the people on this boat were from Iraq, a country Australia invaded with out UN sanctions. the others were from Iran, a country  the western govs of this world tell us is a despot regime, who wouldn't want to flee from there. Dont fake it that you care,you disgust me. People who flee any of the countries you mention are fleeing war and/or persecution.

And if these Iraqi's spent the last five years living and working in Indonesia, were they still fleeing persecution?

Anyone who thinks this wasnt going to be a political baseball is kidding themselves.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:46am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 8:15am: Welcome to the Annual Australian Grave Dancing Event I don't know whose to blame I don't know what has happened to my country over the past 20 years All I know is we are not the same people we were. I AM ASHAMED :'( :'( You ought to be ashamed of the weak Government policy that encouraged people smuggling. These tragic deaths, and untold others lay at the feet of the ALP.  Don`t try do suffocate these objections by low life accusations ov insincerity, of these criticisms. These deaths must be stopped, you won`t silence the call to stop these deaths, no matter how politically inconvenient it is to you!

Frankly Aussie
Go F@#K yourself
I refuse to use this to debate policy or ideology.

I refuse to see how people passing through safe, third countries are fleeing persecution.

Why are they picking Australia in the Asia Pacific region and not other countries?

Answer - living standards, social welfare system and Government policy.

Do you believe Laos, Indonesia, Thailand would give these people the social welfare we provide them?

No. Therefore, if they are passing through safe countries and then going on to Australia - how is that not cherry picking where you want to go??

They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s.

Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:59am:

They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat.

Who gives a fcck about your parents dickwad, you and your life interest no one but you. you've always got to turn every subject into a wankfest over yourself.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:59am:

They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat.

I am so sorry to hear that your parents fled England in fear for their lives.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:02am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. I am so sorry to hear that your parents fled England in fear for their lives.

They didn't.
Neither did these people flee from Indonesia in fear for their lives.

See the point?
The situation is exactly the same.

Both are country shopping. Difference is one did it properly, the other just turned up demanding to be let in.

Ultimately it is those involved in  evil trade of people smuggling who are responsible for all the deaths ,  but haven't successive Australian governments invested millions with the Indonesian Government to stop this smuggling ?  One has to wonder what or if the Indonesian Government is doing anything and where the Australian dollars are being spent.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:59am:

They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat.

I guess they had an Australian embassy to apply to, that accepts applications ?

Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka DO NOT

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:01am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. Who gives a fcck about your parents dickwad, you and your life interest no one but you. you've always got to turn every subject into a wankfest over yourself.

I think you're possibly too stupid to see the example.

Country shopping is what this is.

They did not flee from INDONESIA in fear of their lives.
They passed through a third country and picked Australia because we are stupid enough to give them benefits and social housing at tax payer expense.

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:05am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. I guess they had an Australian embassy to apply to, that accepts applications ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka DO NOT

And who were they running from in Indonesia?
Where is the persecution there?

Why come to Australia.

Answer - social welfare and a want to live somewhere better.

We are stupid enough to accept them.

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:05am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. I guess they had an Australian embassy to apply to, that accepts applications ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka DO NOT

Are they able to apply to an Australian embassy in Indoneasia?

Verge wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:07am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:05am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. I guess they had an Australian embassy to apply to, that accepts applications ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka DO NOT Are they able to apply to an Australian embassy in Indoneasia?

EXACTLY!!!!
Could have sworn there was a functioning embassy in Jakarta.

nichy wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:05am:

Ultimately it is those involved in  evil trade of people smuggling who are responsible for all the deaths ,  but haven't successive Australian governments invested millions with the Indonesian Government to stop this smuggling ?  One has to wonder what or if the Indonesian Government is doing anything and where the Australian dollars are being spent.

Abbott has the right idea with mandatory sentencing of the criminal boat crews.
The lure of easy money disappears fast in the knowledge they would be sent to prison for 5 - 10 years when captured.
It's enough to turn an honest fisherman into a............fisherman.
No boats crew, no boats.

Quote:

Ultimately it is those involved in  evil trade of people smuggling who are responsible for all the deaths

That line is a cop out used by both the Libs and Labor party to detract the blame from themselves. If we didn't invade Iraq many of those on board yesterday would not have been there.
This country carries on like its the only country to have people seeking refugee status, stats say that at least a third of people seeking refuge from Africa and the middle east die trying to make it across the strait of Gibraltar, desperate people do desperate things.

Verge wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:07am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:05am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. I guess they had an Australian embassy to apply to, that accepts applications ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka DO NOT Are they able to apply to an Australian embassy in Indoneasia?

NO

They are not Indonesian citizens
And I've not heard of Australian embassy staff delivreing application forms to Indonesion displaced persons facilities

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:14am:

[quote]    If we didn't invade Iraq many of those on board yesterday would not have been there.

POSSIBLY THE DUMBEST LINE ON HERE YET.

Under the regime of Saddam Hussein?

Ask the Shias, the Kurds and his own people gassed?

What a fking clown.

Quote:

And who were they running from in Indonesia? Where is the persecution there? Why come to Australia

Because Indonesia does NOT accept refugees
They are held in prison camps till a third country "comes to the party"


Australia, being the closest - that is a convention signatory

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:05am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. I guess they had an Australian embassy to apply to, that accepts applications ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka DO NOT

Wrong Buzz.
All except Afghanistan DO have either an Embassy or a High Commission that accepts applications, except that The Australian Embassy, Iraq has no visa function so applicants are requested to -
See: Australian Embassy, Amman, Jordan

We need to take responsibility for our actions.
We invaded Vietnam and then in turn took in refugees as they arrived, they passed many other countries but it was our RESPONSIBILITY to take them ,after all our actions displaced many of them.
We took Jews after the WW2, many of them passed other countries, why did we get them?
This country used to stand  up and be responsible for its actions, but now, because of that little coq Howard many of you have become  shallow assholes.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:16am:

skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:14am: [quote]    If we didn't invade Iraq many of those on board yesterday would not have been there. POSSIBLY THE DUMBEST LINE ON HERE YET. Under the regime of Saddam Hussein? Ask the Shias, the Kurds and his own people gassed? What a fking clown.

I leave the dumbest lines to you jungle jim.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:07am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:05am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:59am: They are essentially doing no different to what my parents did in the early 1970s. Difference is my parents went through the correct channels and declared themselves migrants to Australia from South Africa, not just turn up on a boat. I guess they had an Australian embassy to apply to, that accepts applications ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka DO NOT And who were they running from in Indonesia? Where is the persecution there? Why come to Australia. Answer - social welfare and a want to live somewhere better. We are stupid enough to accept them.

The Sri Lankans is an interesting case, as the Tamil State in India is virtually a short sailing trip north, but they prefer to head East to Australia via Indonesia.
Why wouldn't the Tamil Tigers not want to go the the Tamil state in India.
Why make a long dangerous voyage when a short voyage is available.

Quote:

Iraq has no visa function so applicants are requested to - See: Australian Embassy, Amman, Jordan

That sounds like a nice day trip on the camel ?

I have just re-checked
Since the end of the civil war, the Australian High Commission in Columbo has re-opened itd visa application counter

Of the countris from which our boat arrivals have fled, it is the ONLY Australian embassy, consulate or high commission to do so

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:22am:

We need to take responsibility for our actions. We invaded Vietnam and then in turn took in refugees as they arrived, they passed many other countries but it was our RESPONSIBILITY to take them ,after all our actions displaced many of them.

Do you think maybe the actions of the Viet Cong poking bamboo sticks under the peoples fingernails might have given them some incentive to leave.
Our involvement in Vietnam ended in 1974, long before the Vietnamese Boat people saga years later.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:33am:

skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:22am: We need to take responsibility for our actions. We invaded Vietnam and then in turn took in refugees as they arrived, they passed many other countries but it was our RESPONSIBILITY to take them ,after all our actions displaced many of them. Do you think maybe the actions of the Viet Cong poking bamboo sticks under the peoples fingernails might have given them some incentive to leave. Our involvement in Vietnam ended in 1974, long before the Vietnamese Boat people saga years later.

Vietnamese refos started arriving in 1975.
If you honestly think the war in Vietnam did not force many people out of their homes  and out invasion had little effect you're even more out of touch with reality than you usually sound.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:43am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:33am: skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:22am: We need to take responsibility for our actions. We invaded Vietnam and then in turn took in refugees as they arrived, they passed many other countries but it was our RESPONSIBILITY to take them ,after all our actions displaced many of them. Do you think maybe the actions of the Viet Cong poking bamboo sticks under the peoples fingernails might have given them some incentive to leave. Our involvement in Vietnam ended in 1974, long before the Vietnamese Boat people saga years later. Vietnamese refos started arriving in 1975. If you honestly think the war in Vietnam did not force many people out of their homes  and out invasion had little effect you're even more out of touch with reality than you usually sound.

The ‘Boat People of Vietnam’ seemed to encapsulate all the suffering Vietnam had suffered from 1965 to 1975. Despite the end of the Vietnam War, tragedy for the people of Vietnam continued into 1978-79. The term ‘Boat People’ not only applies to the refugees who fled Vietnam but also to the people of Cambodia and Laos who did the same but tend to come under the same umbrella term. The term ‘Vietnamese Boat People’ tends to be associated with only those in the former South who fled the new Communist government. However, people in what was North Vietnam who had an ethnic Chinese background fled to Hong Kong at the same time fearing some form of retribution from the government in Hanoi.



In late 1978, Indo-China degenerated into wholesale confrontation and war between Vietnam and Kampuchea (Cambodia) and China. In December 1978, Vietnam attacked Kampuchea while in February 1979, Vietnam attacked Chinese forces in the north. These two conflicts produced a huge number of refugees  



Many in what was South Vietnam feared the rule of their communist masters from what had been North Vietnam. Despite the creation of a united Republic of Vietnam in 1975, many in the South feared retribution once it was found out that they had fought against the North during the actual war. The rule exerted in Ho Chi Minh City (formally Saigon) was repressive as this was seen as a bastion of ‘Americanisation’. Traditional freedoms were few. It has been estimated that 65,000 Vietnamese were executed after the end of the war with 1 million being sent to prison/re-education camps where an estimated 165,000 died.



Many took the drastic decision to leave the country – an illegal act under the communis government. As an air flight out of Vietnam was out of the question, many took to makeshift boats in an effort to flee to start a new life elsewhere. Alternately, fishing boats were utilised. While perfectly safe for near-shore fishing, they were not built for the open waters. This was coupled with the fact that they were usually chronically overcrowded, thus making any journey into the open seas potentially highly dangerous.



No one can be sure how many people took the decision to flee, nor are there any definitive casualty figures. However, the number who attempted to flee has been put as high as 1.5 million. Estimates for deaths vary from 50,000 to 200,000 (Australian Immigration Ministry). The primary cause of death was drowning though many refugees were attacked by pirates and murdered or sold into slavery and prostitution. Some countries in the region, such as Malaya, turned the boat people away even if they did manage to land. Boats carrying the refugees were deliberately sunk offshore by those in them to stop the authorities towing them back out to sea. Many of these refugees ended up settling in the United States and Europe. The United States accepted 823,000 refugees; Britain accepted 19,000; France accepted 96,000; Australia and Canada accepted 137,000 each.



History Learning Site > The Vietnam War > Vietnamese Boat

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:33am:

Quote: Iraq has no visa function so applicants are requested to - See: Australian Embassy, Amman, Jordan That sounds like a nice day trip on the camel ? I have just re-checked Since the end of the civil war, the Australian High Commission in Columbo has re-opened itd visa application counter Of the countris from which our boat arrivals have fled, it is the ONLY Australian embassy, consulate or high commission to do so

http://www.iran.embassy.gov.au/tran/aboutus.html

http://www.migrationexpert.com/australia/visa/australian-embassy/pakistan

http://www.jordan.embassy.gov.au/aman/IraqVisas.html

http://www.srilanka.embassy.gov.au/clmb/Visas_and_Migration.html


[b]I think you need to do a bit more homework buzz.b]

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:43am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:33am: skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:22am: We need to take responsibility for our actions. We invaded Vietnam and then in turn took in refugees as they arrived, they passed many other countries but it was our RESPONSIBILITY to take them ,after all our actions displaced many of them. Do you think maybe the actions of the Viet Cong poking bamboo sticks under the peoples fingernails might have given them some incentive to leave. Our involvement in Vietnam ended in 1974, long before the Vietnamese Boat people saga years later. Vietnamese refos started arriving in 1975. If you honestly think the war in Vietnam did not force many people out of their homes  and out invasion had little effect you're even more out of touch with reality than you usually sound.

Well I'm so glad your so switched on then Skip.
The first boat arrived in Darwin in April 1976 carrying five Indochinese men.
Not quite a wave then.
Over the next five years there were 2059 Vietnamese boat arrivals with the last arriving in August 1981.
A rampaging Communist army provided the incentive after our troops withdrew.

None of the people involved in this latest boat tragedy have come from Indochina - so why the deflection to the Vietnamese ?

Is it a case of "let's change the subject " ?

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:54am:

skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:43am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:33am: skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:22am: We need to take responsibility for our actions. We invaded Vietnam and then in turn took in refugees as they arrived, they passed many other countries but it was our RESPONSIBILITY to take them ,after all our actions displaced many of them. Do you think maybe the actions of the Viet Cong poking bamboo sticks under the peoples fingernails might have given them some incentive to leave. Our involvement in Vietnam ended in 1974, long before the Vietnamese Boat people saga years later. Vietnamese refos started arriving in 1975. If you honestly think the war in Vietnam did not force many people out of their homes  and out invasion had little effect you're even more out of touch with reality than you usually sound. Well I'm so glad your so switched on then Skip. The first boat arrived in Darwin in April 1976 carrying five Indochinese men. Not quite a wave then. Over the next five years there were 2059 Vietnamese boat arrivals with the last arriving in August 1981. A rampaging Communist army provided the incentive after our troops withdrew.

Well lucky I am as you are not switched on, besides you saying they started arriving many years after the war ended, you still got it wrong trying to condratict me, Ive got at least two links for you here that say they started arriving in 75.


Quote:

Between 1975 and 1994 over 112,000 Vietnamese refugees were accepted for settlement in Australia

http://www.mdaa.org.au/publications/ethnicity/vietnamese/general.html

You're confusing "boat people" with refugees, not all refugees are "boat people, " boat people" from Vietnam started arriving in 76.

nichy wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:58am:

None of the people involved in this latest boat tragedy have come from Indochina - so why the deflection to the Vietnamese ? Is it a case of "let's change the subject " ?

not on my behalf its not, the Vietnamese are a good example of people accepted here as refugees who passed other countries to get here, but we took them.
This sh it about "oh they passed other countries to get here so they are not refugees " is just sh it.

nichy wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:58am:

None of the people involved in this latest boat tragedy have come from Indochina - so why the deflection to the Vietnamese ? Is it a case of "let's change the subject " ?

I think it is valid to point to a time when Australia had some heart and acted properly towards refugees.

And there are many reasons why Vietnamese boat people arrived much later than the fall of Saigon.

The "re-education" of bourgeouise running dogs took a few years, therefore, many of them were placed in concentration camps for some time after liberation.

Secondly, relatives and family members would be detained for each person escaping. This is a big reason for people staying where they are - anywhere - and in Vietnam, it took many years for this practice to relax.

Thirdly, it wasn't a quick process to get on a boat and get out of there. Many people had to integrate into the coastal villages for months or years until a boat was available and the time was right.

Fourthly, it cost money. Only people with gold, gems or US dollars could get out. This might need to be collected from many extended family members, or family goods might need to be sold.

All these things took time - boat arrivals from Vietnam spiked around 1980.

LOL

'Boat People'

Always makes me laugh.

At school it used to be

"Mate can you clean up that mess?"
"What? Do I look like a fking boat person to you?"

At the end of the day, we all have a bit of a laugh about these people when all is said and done.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 10:22am:

We need to take responsibility for our actions. We invaded Vietnam and then in turn took in refugees as they arrived, they passed many other countries but it was our RESPONSIBILITY to take them ,after all our actions displaced many of them. We took Jews after the WW2, many of them passed other countries, why did we get them? This country used to stand  up and be responsible for its actions, but now, because of that little coq Howard many of you have become  shallow assholes.

You are confusing taking in refugees, with accepting ones who arrive here by boat.

How do you think those in camps around the world waiting to be placed feel knowing had they skipped the process and just continued making their way by boat or plane they would be given priority.

It annoys me because they are queue jumpers.  Thousands are waiting for placement yet we seem to give preference to those already here and thats bull.

We had a girl at my last place of work in Melbourne, she was a child of vietnamese people.

I have no idea if they were boat people or not.

But she was bloody gorgeous.

More of the good looking ones and less of the crap ones, that's what I say.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 11:21am:

nichy wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 10:58am: None of the people involved in this latest boat tragedy have come from Indochina - so why the deflection to the Vietnamese ? Is it a case of "let's change the subject " ? I think it is valid to point to a time when Australia had some heart and acted properly towards refugees.

Good, you might like to remember that even the Howard government took in 13,000 refugees in the year he put the criminal people smugglers out of business.
1 boat in 2 years, 5 detainees on Nauru and closed down mainland detention centres and yet we still took in 13,000 people.
This just demonstrates this issue is not about refugees, it's about the government not sponsoring foreign criminal smuggling gangs and their associated misery that comes with them.

It's about the type of people and quality when you think about it, not nation.

I worked with a guy in accounting originally from Sri Lanka. When we discussed the situation the other year his comment, and I directly quote (as I recall) -

"Those Sri Lankans that you see in the news in the boats are crap Lankans. I wouldn't mix with them in Sri Lanka so I'd be damned if I am going to mix with them in Australia. They are failures. They leave Sri Lanka because they fail, they want it easy and they don't like our system. Australia is stupid to take them, in Sri Lanka we just stay amazed that Australia gets sucked in and believes their bullshit stories. They are crap Lankans and thats all there is to it"

I'd take a Sri Lankans view of his own people above any of yours.

Quote:

You are confusing taking in refugees, with accepting ones who arrive here by boat.

how so? over 98% of those who arrive by boat are accepted into Australia as refugees, and have been for decades.


Quote:

How do you think those in camps around the world waiting to be placed feel knowing had they skipped the process and just continued making their way by boat or plane they would be given priority.

you infer some sort of orderly line exists, it does not, when people are fleeing for their lives they take whatever action is necessary to survive, if it ever happens to you, you'll be the first to whine if you manage to make it to a safe haven but then are moved on as you dont suit the criteria of some people in that country who dont want you there.


Quote:

It annoys me because they are queue jumpers.

Yes a nice little dity that grew  during the Howard years of xenophobia, people like you disgust me, I hope you are displaced one day so as you can see how it feels, go and sit in a camp in indonesia and see how you like it.

When will Julia Gillard admit that her polciy to illegal boat people is wrong.
Or is she going to be pathetic like Kevin Rudd was over this issue.

This is a graph from the Kevin Rudd's own department.

Anything stand out?

---

Remind us skippy why these people are our problem?

What the bugger have Iranians got to do with us??

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

It's about the type of people and quality when you think about it, not nation. I worked with a guy in accounting originally from Sri Lanka. When we discussed the situation the other year his comment, and I directly quote (as I recall) - "Those Sri Lankans that you see in the news in the boats are crap Lankans. I wouldn't mix with them in Sri Lanka so I'd be damned if I am going to mix with them in Australia. They are failures. They leave Sri Lanka because they fail, they want it easy and they don't like our system. Australia is stupid to take them, in Sri Lanka we just stay amazed that Australia gets sucked in and believes their bullshit stories. They are crap Lankans and thats all there is to it" I'd take a Sri Lankans view of his own people above any of yours.

His OWN people ?
He's a SINHALESE
They HATE the 4.6% Tamil minority
What do you think the civil war was over - bananas ?

He was from Sri Lanka.

They are from Sri Lanka.

They are his people.

Like I said, I'd take his opinion over yours. You grew up there did you?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:03pm:

LOL 'Boat People' Always makes me laugh. At school it used to be "Mate can you clean up that mess?" "What? Do I look like a fking boat person to you?" At the end of the day, we all have a bit of a laugh about these people when all is said and done.

You must have ROARED laughing over events at Christmas Island, yesterday ?

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:25pm:

When will Julia Gillard admit that her polciy to illegal boat people is wrong. Or is she going to be pathetic like Kevin Rudd was over this issue. This is a graph from the Kevin Rudd's own department. Anything stand out?

Yes, it clearly demonstrates the governments failure in removing a working policy with a failed one.
And then to compound the error, wait until the issue is out of hand before doing 'something'.
So far, that 'something' has been alot of talk with no action.
All this government does is reinforce failure.
And history has shown us that the reinforcement of failure doesn't work on the battlefield, nor in business, nor in life.
So I'm stuffed if I know why this government is sponsoring this stupidity.

Quote:

Like I said, I'd take his opinion over yours. You grew up there did you?

I'll bet andrei's wife's best friends cousin twice removed married a person who new someone who worked with someone who married a brother of a person who's step mother used to know someone who did grow up there though.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:33pm:

Quote: Like I said, I'd take his opinion over yours. You grew up there did you? I'll bet andrei's wife's best friends cousin twice removed married a person who new someone who worked with someone who married a brother of a person who's step mother used to know someone who did grow up there though.

Another really helpful well thought-out comment.

Remind us again why you think we should take in thousands of shoe shiners?
Are you going to house any on your farm?

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:31pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:03pm: LOL 'Boat People' Always makes me laugh. At school it used to be "Mate can you clean up that mess?" "What? Do I look like a fking boat person to you?" At the end of the day, we all have a bit of a laugh about these people when all is said and done. You must have ROARED laughing over events at Christmas Island, yesterday ?

No I think it is tragic and I was saddened to see this incident.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:24pm:

Quote: You are confusing taking in refugees, with accepting ones who arrive here by boat. how so? over 98% of those who arrive by boat are accepted into Australia as refugees, and have been for decades. [quote]How do you think those in camps around the world waiting to be placed feel knowing had they skipped the process and just continued making their way by boat or plane they would be given priority.

you infer some sort of orderly line exists, it does not, when people are fleeing for their lives they take whatever action is necessary to survive, if it ever happens to you, you'll be the first to whine if you manage to make it to a safe haven but then are moved on as you dont suit the criteria of some people in that country who dont want you there.


Quote:

It annoys me because they are queue jumpers.

Yes a nice little dity that grew  during the Howard years of xenophobia, people like you disgust me, I hope you are displaced one day so as you can see how it feels, go and sit in a camp in indonesia and see how you like it.

[/quote]

You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status.

If someone has been in an overseas camp for years waiting for placement, sorry if I think they deserve a spot here before someone who comes here illegally by boat or plane.

They are the ones who deserve to come here, the ones who have respected the rules and gone about it properly.  

I'd be pissed off no end to know I was in a camp following the rules, only to know that had I bypassed them and continued on I would have got a free pass.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:35pm:

skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:33pm: Quote: Like I said, I'd take his opinion over yours. You grew up there did you? I'll bet andrei's wife's best friends cousin twice removed married a person who new someone who worked with someone who married a brother of a person who's step mother used to know someone who did grow up there though. Another really helpful well thought-out comment. Remind us again why you think we should take in thousands of shoe shiners?

Why not ?we let in worse than that, even you got the nod.
did your passport say shoe shiner or knob polisher?i

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:31pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:03pm: LOL 'Boat People' Always makes me laugh. At school it used to be "Mate can you clean up that mess?" "What? Do I look like a fking boat person to you?" At the end of the day, we all have a bit of a laugh about these people when all is said and done. You must have ROARED laughing over events at Christmas Island, yesterday ?

So low, such a desperate, grubby little tactic. :(

Quote:

You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status.

And you miss mine.
There is NO orderly queue.
Do you really think people sit in refo camps with a number waiting their turn? please answer that.
Some people in camps will never leave that camp, some will spend only months there, there is NO queue.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:58am:

I refuse to see how people passing through safe, third countries are fleeing persecution. Why are they picking Australia in the Asia Pacific region and not other countries? Answer - living standards, social welfare system and Government policy. Do you believe Laos, Indonesia, Thailand would give these people the social welfare we provide them? No. Therefore, if they are passing through safe countries and then going on to Australia - how is that not cherry picking where you want to go??

This is too deep for the tardies to understand Andrei. At least the importation of cheap labour has risen sharply under the ALP.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:55am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 8:46am: Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 8:15am: Welcome to the Annual Australian Grave Dancing Event I don't know whose to blame I don't know what has happened to my country over the past 20 years All I know is we are not the same people we were. I AM ASHAMED :'( :'( You ought to be ashamed of the weak Government policy that encouraged people smuggling. These tragic deaths, and untold others lay at the feet of the ALP.  Don`t try do suffocate these objections by low life accusations ov insincerity, of these criticisms. These deaths must be stopped, you won`t silence the call to stop these deaths, no matter how politically inconvenient it is to you! Frankly Aussie Go F@#K yourself I refuse to use this to debate policy or ideology.

Well take a sensible, practical stance for once. Your prescious pissant posturing, and that of the sheeple of your stamp is costing lives.  Wake up & try to pull your head out of your klacker, people are dying!

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:54pm:

Quote: You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status. And you miss mine. There is NO orderly queue. Do you really think people sit in refo camps with a number waiting their turn? please answer that. Some people in camps will never leave that camp, some will spend only months there, there is NO queue.

Skippy, I`m amazed that you have the inteligence to digest food.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 1:09pm:

skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:54pm: Quote: You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status. And you miss mine. There is NO orderly queue. Do you really think people sit in refo camps with a number waiting their turn? please answer that. Some people in camps will never leave that camp, some will spend only months there, there is NO queue. Skippy, I`m amazed that you have the inteligence to digest food.

At least we dont have that worry with you, we all know how well you swallow, old man.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:54pm:

Quote: You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status. And you miss mine. There is NO orderly queue. Do you really think people sit in refo camps with a number waiting their turn? please answer that. Some people in camps will never leave that camp, some will spend only months there, there is NO queue.

I dont care that there isnt a cue, it doesnt excuse the fact there should be one.

I want fairness and equality in the process, and as it stands there is none.

I dont see it as fair for those who make it here get priority over those that were not as fortunate.

You are the champion of fairness and equality, how about applying to your own cause as a whole and not selectivley.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

It's about the type of people and quality when you think about it, not nation. I worked with a guy in accounting originally from Sri Lanka. When we discussed the situation the other year his comment, and I directly quote (as I recall) - "Those Sri Lankans that you see in the news in the boats are crap Lankans. I wouldn't mix with them in Sri Lanka so I'd be damned if I am going to mix with them in Australia. They are failures. They leave Sri Lanka because they fail, they want it easy and they don't like our system. Australia is stupid to take them, in Sri Lanka we just stay amazed that Australia gets sucked in and believes their bullshit stories. They are crap Lankans and thats all there is to it" I'd take a Sri Lankans view of his own people above any of yours.

I bet he was not a member of the persecuted tamil minority.

Quote:

I dont care that there isnt a cue, it doesnt excuse the fact there should be one

Is it the fault of those escaping a despot regime or an invaded countries fault a queue does not exist?
Why shouldn't those people try and make a better life for themselves?
Wouldn't you?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 8:25pm:

lefty voters - this is one early consequence of your retarded votes. you live in a fairy land, others don't though

These are quotes from the resident bible basher.


Quote:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 14th, 2010 at 2:21pm: chuck them back in the sinking boat they came over in and tow them well out to sea.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 1:37pm:

Quote: I dont care that there isnt a cue, it doesnt excuse the fact there should be one Is it the fault of those escaping a despot regime or an invaded countries fault a queue does not exist? Why shouldn't those people try and make a better life for themselves? Wouldn't you?

Anyone would actually, but what does that show really.
It still doesn't mean our government should be aiding foreign criminal people smuggling gangs in their illegal activities.

Verge wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 1:17pm:

skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:54pm: Quote: You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status. And you miss mine. There is NO orderly queue. Do you really think people sit in refo camps with a number waiting their turn? please answer that. Some people in camps will never leave that camp, some will spend only months there, there is NO queue. I dont care that there isnt a cue, it doesnt excuse the fact there should be one. I want fairness and equality in the process, and as it stands there is none. I dont see it as fair for those who make it here get priority over those that were not as fortunate. You are the champion of fairness and equality, how about applying to your own cause as a whole and not selectivley.

verge there is a queue.. or at least a system.. we take something like 30.000 refugees a year..like all other countries we take our share... where do you think we get them from?????

what the system of intake is I wouldnt know but if they all came by boat.. then it would be very selective and up to the people smugglers to choose who we take..

and I dont see that as being the case.

I would imagine all thesegroups that run these camps would have a certain say in who comes.. otherwise we would get them all from one country and we know that is not the case..

we take our share we do it the legal way.. for anyone to say there isnt a queue!!!!!.. call it what you like.. a system of choice..

is being particularly blindfolded, stupid, or both

codswal wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 2:36pm:

Verge wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 1:17pm: skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:54pm: Quote: You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status. And you miss mine. There is NO orderly queue. Do you really think people sit in refo camps with a number waiting their turn? please answer that. Some people in camps will never leave that camp, some will spend only months there, there is NO queue. I dont care that there isnt a cue, it doesnt excuse the fact there should be one. I want fairness and equality in the process, and as it stands there is none. I dont see it as fair for those who make it here get priority over those that were not as fortunate. You are the champion of fairness and equality, how about applying to your own cause as a whole and not selectivley. verge there is a queue.. or at least a system.. we take something like 30.000 refugees a year..like all other countries we take our share... where do you think we get them from????? what the system of intake is I wouldnt know but if they all came by boat.. then it would be very selective and up to the people smugglers to choose who we take.. and I dont see that as being the case. I would imagine all thesegroups that run these camps would have a certain say in who comes.. otherwise we would get them all from one country and we know that is not the case.. we take our share we do it the legal way.. for anyone to say there isnt a queue!!!!!.. call it what you like.. a system of choice.. is being particularly blindfolded, stupid, or both

there is NO queue, but we're all used to your lies.

Why are all these threads about refugees arriving by boat on the politics message board?
Are we admitting that refugees are being used by the extreme right as political scape goats?
If refugees are not being used as a political tool then surely threads about reffo's should be posted else where, may I suggest the Extremism Exposed board?  :)

The Liberal party have spent years conducting a relentless vilification campaign against asylum seekers.

... today  after seeing Scott Morrision, Ms Bishop and all have so much compassion I think their  latest campaign slogan " Stop the Boats" should be change to something I feel is more fitting,
" Lets save lives" !

Quote:

JULIA Gillard wants the Coalition to help the government determine the facts behind the deaths of asylum-seekers in the Christmas Island disaster. The Prime Minister's invitation to the opposition to join a bipartisan group came as authorities continued to search for more victims from the boat which smashed into rocks at Christmas Island yesterday, killing at least 28 men, women and children....... Jim Posted at 3:48 PM Today Will the PM allow a bipartisan probe into her government's complete and utter failure to secure our borders and stop the boats? Didn't think so. Comment 1 of 4 geoff of perth Posted at 3:48 PM Today Message to the PM, you know where the coalition stands on this matter, don't try and make this their problem, you have the policy settings you want, then accept the consequences. Comment 2 of 4 poa Posted at 3:49 PM Today The "Don't blame Julia" brigade is out in force today. Gillard calling for bipartisanship is just disgraceful. Do the Coalition have responsiblity for this issue?. Did they refuse the Naruu solution that we know stopped the boats?. This is "Children Overboard ..ALP style" Its Gillards playing political games with asylum seekers that killed these people. And damnn right...I'm cross! Comment 3 of 4 Regis of Sydney Posted at 3:55 PM Today Ever the cunning politician Gillard is, it is a nice attempt by her Govt to distract from its failings by trying to put a bi partisan spin to it. The country needs a leader which Gillard is not. Comment 4 of 4

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pm-wants-bipartisan-probe-into-the-christmas-island-asylum-seeker-disaster/comments-fn59niix-1225972216379


dear judas,

get stuffed.

Tony A.

There are few postures quite as serpentine as that of the bully who disguises his cruelty as some kind of love. Sadistic teachers of old were fond of it - the furrowed brow and fraudulent look of regret as they caned you “for your own good” - and the history of xenophobia is rich with creeps who dolled up their barbarism as a humane sympathy for the very people they sought to oppress. The asylum seekers who drowned off Christmas Island last night had barely taken their last breaths when such ghouls began riding their waterlogged bones, boastfully declaring the tragedy a vindication of their own contemptuous beliefs, their allergy to foreigners camouflaged behind a sick exhibition of concern for the very lives they couldn’t give two $#@&s about.  
The argument - which you’ll find all over this very news portal - is that our Government today has the blood of the dead on its hands, Australia’s relaxation of its policy towards asylum seekers having lured such wretches here in the first place. The more “compassionate” policy, they say - one that would allegedly have prevented this tragedy - would be to make life more difficult for such unfortunates, to turn their boats around while at sea, to harass and intimidate them with such rigor as to make traveling to Australia by boat an entirely unattractive proposal.

This argument is lanced by the very incident such frauds are opportunistically using to mount it, for there is no greater deterrent to illegal immigration than death at sea. If deterring asylum seekers is what it’s all about, then last night’s sinking - engineered, apparently, by our Government’s soft hand - will be a far more foreboding advertisement than the prospect of simply having one’s time and money wasted by being turned around. Those who believe in tough love should be applauding the tragedy, if they can work out how to clap with iron fists in velvet gloves.

But the truth is that there’s no love in those voices at all. It’s a pretense. They speak of “deterrent” as some sort of insecticide, the creatures it’s made for mere flies and roaches that scurry about with no more determination than vermin. As if anyone who makes a journey such as this is no more desperate and intelligently resolved than a pigeon looking for somewhere to crap. Put up a scarecrow and they’ll go somewhere else. What despicably ignorant and lordly thinking.

They make a lofty distinction between “genuine asylum seekers” and those who apparently embark on treacherous one-way journeys around the world for fun, or whose efforts to enter our country are fueled by the same base desires as those who attempt to jump the queue at the supermarket. As if the responses to poverty and oppression have ever had anything to do with greed. And as if those who trumpet for the protection of “our way of life” are driven by anything more noble than small-minded avarice and jealous self regard.

The issue of immigration routinely becomes perverted by fanciers of political statistics - whether Australia is taking its “share” of asylum seekers, or at what point Australia’s population becomes “unsustainable”. The heart of the matter has nothing to do with these things. It’s a moral question about whether we have the right to declare a piece of earth our own to the exclusion of all humanity but those we deem “appropriate”. Anyone with a brain capable of a fleeting moment’s existential thought knows that we cannot possibly have that right. Whittled down to the bone, it’s a question of how many - and how much - Australians can’t tolerate wogs. The answer is evidently not a pretty one.

Since our colonial inception, Australia has been a home for the wretched, the unfortunate and the brave, those courageous enough - or stupid enough - to find themselves leaving it all behind in the pursuit of a life on the other side. That the sons and daughters of those very people are slamming the door on beggars is onerous enough. That they’re claiming to do it in the name of “compassion” - today, of all days - is a sick joke, and the sick jokers peddling it should never be taken seriously again.


http://blogs.news.com.au/jackmarxlive/index.php/news/comments/showboat/

Thanks for posting that, darkhall.

It is a little odd how many of the people who called for using the boat people as shooting practice for the navy or towing sinking boats back into Indonesian waters also cry crocdile tears for asylum seekers when tragedies such as this occur.

Cmon Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 7:40pm:

"As many as 30 suspected asylum seekers are feared dead after their boat smashed against jagged rocks on Christmas Island, off the north-west coast of Australia". I believe the actual figure of the dead maybe be lower, around 12, the fact remains.. Labor can no longer hide. There is blood on the Labor Party hands and it's purely due to a flawed policy plus the Labor inability to simply say.."We were wrong and we will change back to the tried and proven Liberal Party policy regarding illegal boats entering our waters. Wake up Ms Gillard. This latest situation off Christmas Island is only the one we know about. How many other poor souls have perished at sea, because of your useless policy, before they even got into Australian waters? >:(

The Greens and the Gillard Government are criminally responsible for these deaths because of their weakness on border security and welcome mat policy encouraging more nand more to risk their lives to illegally come here.  Fill up the measure of your guilt racists and traitors. >:(

Prevailing wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 4:13pm:

Cmon Aussie wrote on Dec 15th, 2010 at 7:40pm: "As many as 30 suspected asylum seekers are feared dead after their boat smashed against jagged rocks on Christmas Island, off the north-west coast of Australia". I believe the actual figure of the dead maybe be lower, around 12, the fact remains.. Labor can no longer hide. There is blood on the Labor Party hands and it's purely due to a flawed policy plus the Labor inability to simply say.."We were wrong and we will change back to the tried and proven Liberal Party policy regarding illegal boats entering our waters. Wake up Ms Gillard. This latest situation off Christmas Island is only the one we know about. How many other poor souls have perished at sea, because of your useless policy, before they even got into Australian waters? >:( The Greens and the Gillard Government are criminally responsible for these deaths because of their weakness on border security and welcome mat policy encouraging more nand more to risk their lives to illegally come here.  Fill up the measure of your guilt racists and traitors. >:(

Please see my post above .

You ignoramus.

skippy. wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:

codswal wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 2:36pm: Verge wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 1:17pm: skippy. wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:54pm: Quote: You miss my point, I am not anti refugee.  I am happy to take them, but I feel we should be taking the ones who have gone through all the correct channels in order to achieve that status. And you miss mine. There is NO orderly queue. Do you really think people sit in refo camps with a number waiting their turn? please answer that. Some people in camps will never leave that camp, some will spend only months there, there is NO queue. I dont care that there isnt a cue, it doesnt excuse the fact there should be one. I want fairness and equality in the process, and as it stands there is none. I dont see it as fair for those who make it here get priority over those that were not as fortunate. You are the champion of fairness and equality, how about applying to your own cause as a whole and not selectivley. verge there is a queue.. or at least a system.. we take something like 30.000 refugees a year..like all other countries we take our share... where do you think we get them from????? what the system of intake is I wouldnt know but if they all came by boat.. then it would be very selective and up to the people smugglers to choose who we take.. and I dont see that as being the case. I would imagine all thesegroups that run these camps would have a certain say in who comes.. otherwise we would get them all from one country and we know that is not the case.. we take our share we do it the legal way.. for anyone to say there isnt a queue!!!!!.. call it what you like.. a system of choice.. is being particularly blindfolded, stupid, or both there is NO queue, but we're all used to your lies.

so how do we get the 30.000 or so other refugees that dont come by boat.. where do they get picked from and how?????..

does immigration just wander the streets of,  wherever!!!!.a pin stuck into a map maybe.. and then just say.

your picked, your picked, no not you your too tall/short/bald. whatever we dont want you.

I would really like to know.. you seem to know a lot more than most on here as you call everyone a liar.. so tell us how does our share of refugees get chosen!... no queues remember.

maybe they have lotteries in these camps..mmmmmmmmm pick a country..

The Howard government stopped the boats:

What stopped the boats you ask? Let me remind you.


2001:   In 2001 there were 51 boats and 5,516 irregular arrivals

Late that year, the US sent ships into the middle east. In fact they invaded Afghanistan. The ships acted as eyes and ears in the area. When the troops moved in they seized the borders and effectively reduced the number of people the people smugglers could smuggle in. This had very little to do with temporary visas.

2002:    The Bali Bombings

The bombings, horrific though they were, attracted to Indonesia the scrutiny of the USA’s CIA and FBI as well as our own AFP. This basically made it very hard for people smugglers to ply their trade from Indonesia. Towards the middle of 2004 the scrutiny had eased off and the boats began again. Until…

2004:     The Boxing day Tsunami

This natural disaster again curtailed the people smuggling trade. The US sent a air craft carrier into the region with radar capabilities that made it hard for the boat smugglers to launch. Added to that was the fear of the people being smuggled to go to sea.

2005-2006:    Return of the eye in the sky.

Satellite technology that had been predominantly swallowed by the Iraq War was used to spot ships. There was even cases of Indonesia themselves turning back some of the boats. So what did the people smugglers do? Launch smaller craft. And this put the lives of the people arriving here at greater risk. It was enough for John Howard to curtail his temporary visa policy as DESPITE IT, the boats kept coming and people were willing to risk it all to get their family to safer shores.

From 2007:      War returns to Afghanistan and  conflict in Sri Lanka heats up

This gave the smugglers back their product.

Till 2010 where

116 boats have bought in 5,516 people to our shores


So tell me again how liberal party policy helped stop the boats.


http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/this-is-what-you-want-this-is-what-you-get/

The Pacific Solution STOPPED the boats.

---

I would like to see  Abbott or morrison or Ms Bishop come out and tell us how the asylum seeker issue  be handled better, with less potentially serious consequences.

Would Bob Brown and Julia Gillard like to apologize to the families of the deceased and to the Australian people for the unnecessary deaths their border security policies directly resulted in? >:(

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:05pm:

I would like to see  Abbott or morrison or Ms Bishop come out and tell us how the asylum seeker issue  be handled better, with less potentially serious consequences.

Are you related to Julia Gillard?
As Julia Gillard also knows the answer but is just being stupidly stubborn. Julia Gillard refuses to implement the Pacific Solution as Julia Gillard knows that that works.
Stopped the boats and how many died again?

Prevailing wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:09pm:

Would Bob Brown and Julia Gillard like to apologize to the families of the deceased and to the Australian people for the unnecessary deaths their border security policies directly resulted in? >:(

The law tells me on some freeways I can go 110 k per hour yet on a rainy or heavy foggy day I don't ! Who is to blame  for  those who do ?

Asylum seekers take desperate measures.
Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip.

darkhall67 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 3:26pm:

There are few postures quite as serpentine as that of the bully who disguises his cruelty as some kind of love. Sadistic teachers of old were fond of it - the furrowed brow and fraudulent look of regret as they caned you “for your own good” - and the history of xenophobia is rich with creeps who dolled up their barbarism as a humane sympathy for the very people they sought to oppress. The asylum seekers who drowned off Christmas Island last night had barely taken their last breaths when such ghouls began riding their waterlogged bones, boastfully declaring the tragedy a vindication of their own contemptuous beliefs, their allergy to foreigners camouflaged behind a sick exhibition of concern for the very lives they couldn’t give two $#@&s about.   The argument - which you’ll find all over this very news portal - is that our Government today has the blood of the dead on its hands, Australia’s relaxation of its policy towards asylum seekers having lured such wretches here in the first place. The more “compassionate” policy, they say - one that would allegedly have prevented this tragedy - would be to make life more difficult for such unfortunates, to turn their boats around while at sea, to harass and intimidate them with such rigor as to make traveling to Australia by boat an entirely unattractive proposal. This argument is lanced by the very incident such frauds are opportunistically using to mount it, for there is no greater deterrent to illegal immigration than death at sea. If deterring asylum seekers is what it’s all about, then last night’s sinking - engineered, apparently, by our Government’s soft hand - will be a far more foreboding advertisement than the prospect of simply having one’s time and money wasted by being turned around. Those who believe in tough love should be applauding the tragedy, if they can work out how to clap with iron fists in velvet gloves. But the truth is that there’s no love in those voices at all. It’s a pretense. They speak of “deterrent” as some sort of insecticide, the creatures it’s made for mere flies and roaches that scurry about with no more determination than vermin. As if anyone who makes a journey such as this is no more desperate and intelligently resolved than a pigeon looking for somewhere to crap. Put up a scarecrow and they’ll go somewhere else. What despicably ignorant and lordly thinking. They make a lofty distinction between “genuine asylum seekers” and those who apparently embark on treacherous one-way journeys around the world for fun, or whose efforts to enter our country are fueled by the same base desires as those who attempt to jump the queue at the supermarket. As if the responses to poverty and oppression have ever had anything to do with greed. And as if those who trumpet for the protection of “our way of life” are driven by anything more noble than small-minded avarice and jealous self regard. The issue of immigration routinely becomes perverted by fanciers of political statistics - whether Australia is taking its “share” of asylum seekers, or at what point Australia’s population becomes “unsustainable”. The heart of the matter has nothing to do with these things. It’s a moral question about whether we have the right to declare a piece of earth our own to the exclusion of all humanity but those we deem “appropriate”. Anyone with a brain capable of a fleeting moment’s existential thought knows that we cannot possibly have that right. Whittled down to the bone, it’s a question of how many - and how much - Australians can’t tolerate wogs. The answer is evidently not a pretty one. Since our colonial inception, Australia has been a home for the wretched, the unfortunate and the brave, those courageous enough - or stupid enough - to find themselves leaving it all behind in the pursuit of a life on the other side. That the sons and daughters of those very people are slamming the door on beggars is onerous enough. That they’re claiming to do it in the name of “compassion” - today, of all days - is a sick joke, and the sick jokers peddling it should never be taken seriously again. http://blogs.news.com.au/jackmarxlive/index.php/news/comments/showboat/

Shame Australia, shame! I heard a man on the radio today, he said that it brought back memories of when he came to Australia on a rickety old boat 15 years ago. He is an anaesthetist working at one of our major hospitals, spoke good English too, better than many of our home bred. An asset for our country, many don't see this though.

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:22pm:

Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip.

Yes it is.


And more will be coming.
And more children will be placed at risk, thanks to Julia Gillard.
Why, because Julia Gillard has now made it so families can come out as Julia Gillard said that families would be released into the community rather than be placed into detention centres.

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:45pm:

wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm: Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip. Yes it is. And more will be coming. And more children will be placed at risk, thanks to Julia Gillard. Why, because Julia Gillard has now made it so families can come out as Julia Gillard said that families would be released into the community rather than be placed into detention centres.

and this makes   the Coaltion happy, why;
I repeat.

'A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided exclusively to the Herald says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist'' told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was ''fantastic'' for the Coalition and ''the more boats that come the better''

todays SMH ~

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:49pm:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:45pm: wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm: Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip. Yes it is. And more will be coming. And more children will be placed at risk, thanks to Julia Gillard. Why, because Julia Gillard has now made it so families can come out as Julia Gillard said that families would be released into the community rather than be placed into detention centres. and this makes   the Coaltion happy, why; I repeat. 'A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided exclusively to the Herald says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist'' told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was ''fantastic'' for the Coalition and ''the more boats that come the better'' todays SMH ~

You're not following the thread are you.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:36pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 3:26pm: There are few postures quite as serpentine as that of the bully who disguises his cruelty as some kind of love. Sadistic teachers of old were fond of it - the furrowed brow and fraudulent look of regret as they caned you “for your own good” - and the history of xenophobia is rich with creeps who dolled up their barbarism as a humane sympathy for the very people they sought to oppress. The asylum seekers who drowned off Christmas Island last night had barely taken their last breaths when such ghouls began riding their waterlogged bones, boastfully declaring the tragedy a vindication of their own contemptuous beliefs, their allergy to foreigners camouflaged behind a sick exhibition of concern for the very lives they couldn’t give two $#@&s about.   The argument - which you’ll find all over this very news portal - is that our Government today has the blood of the dead on its hands, Australia’s relaxation of its policy towards asylum seekers having lured such wretches here in the first place. The more “compassionate” policy, they say - one that would allegedly have prevented this tragedy - would be to make life more difficult for such unfortunates, to turn their boats around while at sea, to harass and intimidate them with such rigor as to make traveling to Australia by boat an entirely unattractive proposal. This argument is lanced by the very incident such frauds are opportunistically using to mount it, for there is no greater deterrent to illegal immigration than death at sea. If deterring asylum seekers is what it’s all about, then last night’s sinking - engineered, apparently, by our Government’s soft hand - will be a far more foreboding advertisement than the prospect of simply having one’s time and money wasted by being turned around. Those who believe in tough love should be applauding the tragedy, if they can work out how to clap with iron fists in velvet gloves. But the truth is that there’s no love in those voices at all. It’s a pretense. They speak of “deterrent” as some sort of insecticide, the creatures it’s made for mere flies and roaches that scurry about with no more determination than vermin. As if anyone who makes a journey such as this is no more desperate and intelligently resolved than a pigeon looking for somewhere to crap. Put up a scarecrow and they’ll go somewhere else. What despicably ignorant and lordly thinking. They make a lofty distinction between “genuine asylum seekers” and those who apparently embark on treacherous one-way journeys around the world for fun, or whose efforts to enter our country are fueled by the same base desires as those who attempt to jump the queue at the supermarket. As if the responses to poverty and oppression have ever had anything to do with greed. And as if those who trumpet for the protection of “our way of life” are driven by anything more noble than small-minded avarice and jealous self regard. The issue of immigration routinely becomes perverted by fanciers of political statistics - whether Australia is taking its “share” of asylum seekers, or at what point Australia’s population becomes “unsustainable”. The heart of the matter has nothing to do with these things. It’s a moral question about whether we have the right to declare a piece of earth our own to the exclusion of all humanity but those we deem “appropriate”. Anyone with a brain capable of a fleeting moment’s existential thought knows that we cannot possibly have that right. Whittled down to the bone, it’s a question of how many - and how much - Australians can’t tolerate wogs. The answer is evidently not a pretty one. Since our colonial inception, Australia has been a home for the wretched, the unfortunate and the brave, those courageous enough - or stupid enough - to find themselves leaving it all behind in the pursuit of a life on the other side. That the sons and daughters of those very people are slamming the door on beggars is onerous enough. That they’re claiming to do it in the name of “compassion” - today, of all days - is a sick joke, and the sick jokers peddling it should never be taken seriously again. http://blogs.news.com.au/jackmarxlive/index.php/news/comments/showboat/ Shame Australia, shame! I heard a man on the radio today, he said that it brought back memories of when he came to Australia on a rickety old boat 15 years ago. He is an anaesthetist working at one of our major hospitals, spoke good English too, better than many of our home bred. An asset for our country, many don't see this though.

Another idiotic statement from the Australia hating hair shirt brigade.

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:49pm:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:45pm: wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm: Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip. Yes it is. And more will be coming. And more children will be placed at risk, thanks to Julia Gillard. Why, because Julia Gillard has now made it so families can come out as Julia Gillard said that families would be released into the community rather than be placed into detention centres. and this makes   the Coaltion happy, why; I repeat. 'A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided exclusively to the Herald says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist'' told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was ''fantastic'' for the Coalition and ''the more boats that come the better'' todays SMH ~

Why can`t you be honest and sensible for once. When you play your dodgy, cheap little games you only disgrace yourself.  People are dying because of weak Govt policy, this isn`t a silly little game.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 8:38pm:

wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:49pm: Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:45pm: wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm: Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip. Yes it is. And more will be coming. And more children will be placed at risk, thanks to Julia Gillard. Why, because Julia Gillard has now made it so families can come out as Julia Gillard said that families would be released into the community rather than be placed into detention centres. and this makes   the Coaltion happy, why; I repeat. 'A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided exclusively to the Herald says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist'' told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was ''fantastic'' for the Coalition and ''the more boats that come the better'' todays SMH ~ Why can`t you be honest and sensible for once. When you play your dodgy, cheap little games you only disgrace yourself.  People are dying because of weak Govt policy, this isn`t a silly little game.

Speaking of dishonest, dodgy, cheap and silly little games: how the smack did the Oz choose that title for this article!?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/secret-wikileaks-us-cables-criticise-kevin-rudd-on-boats/story-fn3dxity-1225971843665


Quote:

Secret WikiLeaks US cables criticise Kevin Rudd on boats    * December 16, 2010 2:13AM SECRET US embassy cables have criticised the handling of asylum seekers by former prime minister Kevin Rudd. The cables released by WikiLeaks also accused Labor and the coalition of playing partisan politics with the issue, Fairfax reported today. The cables show that a close adviser to Mr Rudd failed to persuade him to use the government's powers "to calmly and rationally put the issue in perspective" by acknowledging that only a small number of asylum seekers were arriving by boat compared with tens of thousands overstaying their visas each year. A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better". US diplomats reported that Labor insiders regarded it as "politically dangerous" for the party that had promised a more humane approach before the 2007 federal election. "The Labor Party - which was burnt by this issue at the 2001 election - is fearful of being viewed as 'soft' on border security," the embassy reported to Washington last year, according to WikiLeaks. The embassy also reported that in parliamentary debate on the issue Mr Rudd had "returned to tedious spin and bureaucratic jargon, making him look evasive and out of his depth". The cables also revealed federal Labor MP Michael Danby told embassy officers that Mr Rudd had "played the politics badly" and "completely misread" the issue, while coalition strategists were reported as saying the issue was "significant because it was the first time Rudd had been exposed for a lack of leadership and for 'trying to be all things to all people'."

"A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"."


Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:02pm:

"A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"." Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea.

Of course it is true - one only needs to look at the Liberal Party's election platform in 2010 for the divisive spin "STOP THE BOATS"!

Ditto re all previous Federal elections in living memory...

Ditto re the ever-present anti asylum seeker rants by right whingers on these and other Aussie forums...

What I don't get, is why the source is purportedly 'unnamed' in this instance - do the Wikileaks documents not contain the name of the braggart or are the right-wing media protecting their Lib mates when they've shown a propensity to release names with controversial Wikileaks quotes by Lab pollies...

Or was it an ALP set up, claiming to be a Liberal member.

Equitist wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:11pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:02pm: "A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"." Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea. Of course it is true - one only needs to look at the Liberal Party's election platform in 2010 for the divisive spin "STOP THE BOATS"! Ditto re all previous Federal elections in living memory... Ditto re the ever-present anti asylum seeker rants by right whingers on these and other Aussie forums... What I don't get, is why the source is purportedly 'unnamed' in this instance - do the Wikileaks documents not contain the name of the braggart or are the right-wing media protecting their Lib mates when they've shown a propensity to release names with controversial Wikileaks quotes by Lab pollies...

You obviously have no interest in stopping the boats AND  further deaths at sea.

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:14pm:

Or was it an ALP set up, claiming to be a Liberal member.

Yer, you great big conspiracy theorist, Macca: a cunning ALP member obviously went to the trouble of claiming to speak on behalf of any one of dozens of key Lib members, who would doubtless have operated under such a cunning agenda...

"No I think it is tragic and I was saddened to see this incident."

Anyone agree?

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:15pm:

Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:11pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:02pm: "A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"." Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea. Of course it is true - one only needs to look at the Liberal Party's election platform in 2010 for the divisive spin "STOP THE BOATS"! Ditto re all previous Federal elections in living memory... Ditto re the ever-present anti asylum seeker rants by right whingers on these and other Aussie forums... What I don't get, is why the source is purportedly 'unnamed' in this instance - do the Wikileaks documents not contain the name of the braggart or are the right-wing media protecting their Lib mates when they've shown a propensity to release names with controversial Wikileaks quotes by Lab pollies... You obviously have no interest in stopping the boats AND  further deaths at sea.

You, cynical and opportunistic sir, obviously have no interest in the lives and livelihoods of those vulnerable people who are desperate enough to risk coming here by sea...

Equitist wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:24pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:15pm: Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:11pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:02pm: "A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"." Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea. Of course it is true - one only needs to look at the Liberal Party's election platform in 2010 for the divisive spin "STOP THE BOATS"! Ditto re all previous Federal elections in living memory... Ditto re the ever-present anti asylum seeker rants by right whingers on these and other Aussie forums... What I don't get, is why the source is purportedly 'unnamed' in this instance - do the Wikileaks documents not contain the name of the braggart or are the right-wing media protecting their Lib mates when they've shown a propensity to release names with controversial Wikileaks quotes by Lab pollies... You obviously have no interest in stopping the boats AND  further deaths at sea. You, cynical and opportunistic sir, obviously have no interest in the lives and livelihoods of those vulnerable people who are desperate enough to risk coming here by sea...

Who`s weak policies encouraged them to take the trip?
How many genuine refugees can fit into Australia?
Why don`t you think just a little bit?

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:29pm:

Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:24pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:15pm: Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:11pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:02pm: "A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"." Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea. Of course it is true - one only needs to look at the Liberal Party's election platform in 2010 for the divisive spin "STOP THE BOATS"! Ditto re all previous Federal elections in living memory... Ditto re the ever-present anti asylum seeker rants by right whingers on these and other Aussie forums... What I don't get, is why the source is purportedly 'unnamed' in this instance - do the Wikileaks documents not contain the name of the braggart or are the right-wing media protecting their Lib mates when they've shown a propensity to release names with controversial Wikileaks quotes by Lab pollies... You obviously have no interest in stopping the boats AND  further deaths at sea. You, cynical and opportunistic sir, obviously have no interest in the lives and livelihoods of those vulnerable people who are desperate enough to risk coming here by sea... Who`s weak policies encouraged them to take the trip? How many genuine refugees can fit into Australia? Why don`t you think just a little bit?

Here's something for you to think about: -

WHERE THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU?
No Boats.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:29pm:

Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:24pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:15pm: Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:11pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:02pm: "A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"." Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea. Of course it is true - one only needs to look at the Liberal Party's election platform in 2010 for the divisive spin "STOP THE BOATS"! Ditto re all previous Federal elections in living memory... Ditto re the ever-present anti asylum seeker rants by right whingers on these and other Aussie forums... What I don't get, is why the source is purportedly 'unnamed' in this instance - do the Wikileaks documents not contain the name of the braggart or are the right-wing media protecting their Lib mates when they've shown a propensity to release names with controversial Wikileaks quotes by Lab pollies... You obviously have no interest in stopping the boats AND  further deaths at sea. You, cynical and opportunistic sir, obviously have no interest in the lives and livelihoods of those vulnerable people who are desperate enough to risk coming here by sea... Who`s weak policies encouraged them to take the trip? How many genuine refugees can fit into Australia? Why don`t you think just a little bit?

a) Julia Gillard's & Kevin Rudd's
b) If they were genuine then that'd be ok, they can be accommodated.
c)....

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 6:22pm:

Prevailing wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:09pm: Would Bob Brown and Julia Gillard like to apologize to the families of the deceased and to the Australian people for the unnecessary deaths their border security policies directly resulted in? >:( Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip.

Pity the statistics say otherwise eh.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 6:54am:

wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm: Prevailing wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:09pm: Would Bob Brown and Julia Gillard like to apologize to the families of the deceased and to the Australian people for the unnecessary deaths their border security policies directly resulted in? >:( Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip. Pity the statistics say otherwise eh.

True chickenlipsforme
And the stats are from kevin Rudd's own office.

---

Another day, another cynical attempt by right whingers to gain political mileage out of the desperate and stateless...


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/secret-wikileaks-us-cables-criticise-kevin-rudd-on-boats/story-fn3dxity-1225971843665


Quote:

A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better".

Equitist wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 7:10am:

Another day, another cynical attempt by right whingers to gain political mileage out of the desperate and stateless... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/secret-wikileaks-us-cables-criticise-kevin-rudd-on-boats/story-fn3dxity-1225971843665 Quote: A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better".

No, just another day showing the government up for what they really are.
Just  a bunch of inept, incompetent clueless fools who now just happen to have a bucketload of blood on their hands thanks to their poor policies.
It really was only a matter of time until a tragedy like this occurred.
They were warned of the potential consequences of their softening of our working border protection laws some years ago.
So don't shoot the messenger.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 7:19am:

Equitist wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 7:10am: Another day, another cynical attempt by right whingers to gain political mileage out of the desperate and stateless... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/secret-wikileaks-us-cables-criticise-kevin-rudd-on-boats/story-fn3dxity-1225971843665 Quote: A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better". No, just another day showing the government up for what they really are. Just  a bunch of inept, incompetent clueless fools who now just happen to have a bucketload of blood on their hands thanks to their poor policies. It really was only a matter of time until a tragedy like this occurred. They were warned of the potential consequences of their softening of our working border protection laws some years ago. So don't shoot the messenger.

Don't worry chickenlipsforme, it is an unnamed source, supposedly from the Liberal party. May as well say it was from the ALP.
Just another day, another cynical attempt by left whingers to gain political mileage out of the desperate and stateless...
The ALP will stoop to any level to try and get the attention off Julia Gillard.

We have, in fact, two kinds of morality side by side: one which we preach but do not practice, and another which we practice but seldom preach.
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970), Sceptical Essays (1928), "Eastern and Western Ideals of Happiness"

If you believe the neo cons we invaded Iraq to save the Iraqi people.....do you think the Iraqi's believe them???

:)

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 6:54am:

wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm: Prevailing wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:09pm: Would Bob Brown and Julia Gillard like to apologize to the families of the deceased and to the Australian people for the unnecessary deaths their border security policies directly resulted in? >:( Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip. Pity the statistics say otherwise eh.

yes.
It seems Miss Anne Dryst graph that she provided matches the  points I provided.
The Howard government stopped the boats:

What stopped the boats you ask? Let me remind you.


2001:   In 2001 there were 51 boats and 5,516 irregular arrivals

Late that year, the US sent ships into the middle east. In fact they invaded Afghanistan. The ships acted as eyes and ears in the area. When the troops moved in they seized the borders and effectively reduced the number of people the people smugglers could smuggle in. This had very little to do with temporary visas.

2002:    The Bali Bombings

The bombings, horrific though they were, attracted to Indonesia the scrutiny of the USA’s CIA and FBI as well as our own AFP. This basically made it very hard for people smugglers to ply their trade from Indonesia. Towards the middle of 2004 the scrutiny had eased off and the boats began again. Until…

2004:     The Boxing day Tsunami

This natural disaster again curtailed the people smuggling trade. The US sent a air craft carrier into the region with radar capabilities that made it hard for the boat smugglers to launch. Added to that was the fear of the people being smuggled to go to sea.

2005-2006:    Return of the eye in the sky.

Satellite technology that had been predominantly swallowed by the Iraq War was used to spot ships. There was even cases of Indonesia themselves turning back some of the boats. So what did the people smugglers do? Launch smaller craft. And this put the lives of the people arriving here at greater risk. It was enough for John Howard to curtail his temporary visa policy as DESPITE IT, the boats kept coming and people were willing to risk it all to get their family to safer shores.

From 2007:      War returns to Afghanistan and  conflict in Sri Lanka heats up

This gave the smugglers back their product.

Till 2010 where

116 boats have bought in 5,516 people to our shores


So tell me again how liberal party policy helped stop the boats?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/boats11_thumb_003.jpg


The graph conveniently misses THIS turning point ...



2009 January - Government troops capture the northern town of Kilinochchi, held for ten years by the Tamil Tigers as their administrative headquarters. President Mahinda Rajapakse calls it an unparalleled victory and urges the rebels to surrender.

2009 February - International concern over the humanitarian situation of thousands of civilians trapped in the battle zone prompts calls for a temporary cease-fire. This is rejected by the government, which says it is on the verge of destroying the Tamil Tigers, but it offers an amnesty to rebels if they surrender.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1166237.stm

Look around the world who caused all catastrophies ?? human due to their greeds .. All want to move to better places .. the ones with money will catch the planes .. the less money will afford the boat .. and the least .. will stay back to build their shattering countries .. as mojority will have no chances ..

The answer to the boat people is simple, it's staring right inthe face of Julia Gillard. Julia Gillard knows what she must do and that is to re-implement the Pacific Solution.
John Howard stopped the boats from coming.
Kevin Rudd started them up again and Julia Gillard opened the flood gates.

And Kevin Rudd's own department confirms this.

---

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 12:23pm:

The answer to the boat people is simple, it's staring right inthe face of Julia Gillard. Julia Gillard knows what she must do and that is to re-implement the Pacific Solution. John Howard stopped the boats from coming. Kevin Rudd started them up again and Julia Gillard opened the flood gates. And Kevin Rudd's own department confirms this.

Hey mellie its time for a costume change . This one is too much like the mellie nick, bring back maqqa.

Equitist wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 9:35pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:29pm: Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:24pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:15pm: Equitist wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:11pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 9:02pm: "A cable obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Fairfax says an unnamed "key Liberal Party strategist" told US diplomats in November last year that the issue of asylum seekers was "fantastic" for the coalition and "the more boats that come the better"." Even if this is true, it would only reinforce the ALP`s guilt in the upsurgance of people smuggling, and the resultant deaths at sea. Of course it is true - one only needs to look at the Liberal Party's election platform in 2010 for the divisive spin "STOP THE BOATS"! Ditto re all previous Federal elections in living memory... Ditto re the ever-present anti asylum seeker rants by right whingers on these and other Aussie forums... What I don't get, is why the source is purportedly 'unnamed' in this instance - do the Wikileaks documents not contain the name of the braggart or are the right-wing media protecting their Lib mates when they've shown a propensity to release names with controversial Wikileaks quotes by Lab pollies... You obviously have no interest in stopping the boats AND  further deaths at sea. You, cynical and opportunistic sir, obviously have no interest in the lives and livelihoods of those vulnerable people who are desperate enough to risk coming here by sea... Who`s weak policies encouraged them to take the trip? How many genuine refugees can fit into Australia? Why don`t you think just a little bit? Here's something for you to think about: - WHERE THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU? No Boats.

Making absolutely no sense as per usual. However, there are billions of people within people smuggling range of Australia who for various reasons, are living under inhuman conditions, we simply can`t take them all.  The concept of people smuggling is entirely wrong, and must be discouraged.

Browsing through some of the previous posts, I can see that trying to hold a productive dialogue with some posters is wasted time. To actually try to argue that Aust Govt policy has no effect on this problem is confirmation of serious intelect deficiency.

It`s my contention that to put one`s own feel good emotions above the lives of others is at best, unhelpfull, and at worst totally idiotic. Emotional wrist flappers to the back, problem solvers to the fore!

wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 7:58am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 6:54am: wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm: Prevailing wrote on Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:09pm: Would Bob Brown and Julia Gillard like to apologize to the families of the deceased and to the Australian people for the unnecessary deaths their border security policies directly resulted in? >:( Asylum seekers take desperate measures. Soften laws is not what is attracting  them to handle such a trip. Pity the statistics say otherwise eh. yes. It seems Miss Anne Dryst graph that she provided matches the  points I provided. The Howard government stopped the boats: What stopped the boats you ask? Let me remind you. 2001:   In 2001 there were 51 boats and 5,516 irregular arrivals Late that year, the US sent ships into the middle east. In fact they invaded Afghanistan. The ships acted as eyes and ears in the area. When the troops moved in they seized the borders and effectively reduced the number of people the people smugglers could smuggle in. This had very little to do with temporary visas. 2002:    The Bali Bombings The bombings, horrific though they were, attracted to Indonesia the scrutiny of the USA’s CIA and FBI as well as our own AFP. This basically made it very hard for people smugglers to ply their trade from Indonesia. Towards the middle of 2004 the scrutiny had eased off and the boats began again. Until… 2004:     The Boxing day Tsunami This natural disaster again curtailed the people smuggling trade. The US sent a air craft carrier into the region with radar capabilities that made it hard for the boat smugglers to launch. Added to that was the fear of the people being smuggled to go to sea. 2005-2006:    Return of the eye in the sky. Satellite technology that had been predominantly swallowed by the Iraq War was used to spot ships. There was even cases of Indonesia themselves turning back some of the boats. So what did the people smugglers do? Launch smaller craft. And this put the lives of the people arriving here at greater risk. It was enough for John Howard to curtail his temporary visa policy as DESPITE IT, the boats kept coming and people were willing to risk it all to get their family to safer shores. From 2007:      War returns to Afghanistan and  conflict in Sri Lanka heats up This gave the smugglers back their product. Till 2010 where 116 boats have bought in 5,516 people to our shores So tell me again how liberal party policy helped stop the boats?

That`s really wet vegi.

http://7pmproject.com.au/a-christmas-nightmare.htm


At the time of writing, the terrible human toll of the Christmas Island boat disaster is still being tallied. We know that at least 28 people have lost their lives in shocking circumstances, dashed against the rocky cliffs or drowned in the swirling maelstrom.

Refraining, even for a day or two, from politicising these deaths is probably too much to ask in present-day Australia. Ever since the Howard Government's 2001 electoral lightning rod – refusing to allow the Tampa to dock at this very same island – boat people have never been far from the front pages. Howard's implementation of the so-called 'Pacific Solution' for the offshore processing of asylum seekers, coupled with an unapologetically hardline approach to their assessment and detention, coloured political debate in this country until the end of his Government in 2007. These policies, though often criticised as draconian, arguably contributed to a significant decline in boat arrivals.

The Rudd Government came to power on the promise of relaxing many of the harshest policies of their pedecessors. Most notably, the controversial Temporary Protection Visas were discontinued. Since that time, the rate of boat arrivals has climbed again. Yesterday's ill-fated attempt marked the 129th vessel (that we know of) to attempt Australian territory since the policy shift.

The Federal Opposition and other critics of the Rudd/Gillard government have long argued, plausibly, that the softening of asylum seeker policies has painted Australia as an 'easy target', and directly contributed to the increase in arrivals. The Government has consistently denied such a connection, instead blaming external 'push' factors such as the conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka.

For what it's worth, I believe the truth lies somewhere in between. But in the aftershock of the Christmas Island tragedy, many critics of the current regime – from mainstream columnists to frothing at the mouth members of the public – have made a disgustingly disingenuous claim to compassion in their condemnation of the government. Despite scant mention of the victims themselves, their comments and letters declare that Gillard has 'blood on her hands', that such a travesty was inevitable under her policies, that the boats must be stopped to save lives.

On a very basic level, they have a point. We should do everything in our power to disrupt the people-smuggling trade and prevent people risking their lives in this way. But what I cannot stomach is the hijacking of humanitarianism to the anti-refugee agenda.

Where was this compassion when 353 lives were lost aboard the SIEV X, in October 2001? This terrible maritime incident happened on Howard's watch. Despite the boat sinking in an Australian border protection surveillance area (again, around Christmas Island), the Government not only denied any responsibility for the tragedy, but refused to conduct any investigation into the circumstances, even going so far as to try and block a memorial to the incident to the victims being built in Canberra. I don't remember any of the present-day compassionistas speaking up against policy then.

Where were these defenders of the people when asylum seekers were being deliberately dehumanised during the 'children overboard' affair? Where were those now shedding crocodile tears for the victims while innocent children languished for years in our desert prisons?

One need not read very far down the letters to the editor to find the more traditional forms of bigotry towards asylum seekers. Clumsy charges of being 'queue jumpers' and 'economic migrants'. Paranoid, misinformed rants about refugees receiving luxurious benefits while our pensioners are left to rot. While offensive, at least these attitudes are essentially honest. They reflect a deep seated, infantile fear of someone else getting a piece of our pie. It's not fair!

Gillard and Labor are by no means blameless in this affair. Their policies have been confused, and confusing. While in reality the Rudd/Gillard border policy regime is far from the 'soft touch' their adversaries claim, without a clear message to the contrary it is unsurprising that people-smugglers are too often able to sell the idea that Australia is a destination worth the risk. In any event, this tragedy has happened on Labor's watch, and they will suffer the fallout.

precisley.. why Howard implemented the Pacific solution which you decry over and over again....it worked.. stupid it worked.

it wasnt broke untill rudd/gillard broke it..now you are complaining.well guess what you will have to live with it.just like gillard will.

Quote:

Howard implemented the Pacific solution which you decry over and over again

Howard implemented the pacific non solution because he was a media driven little turd.
If Howard cared about the number of refos this country was getting he'd have clamped down on  the plane refos which are over 98% of asylum seekers to our shores.But its easier to appease the retards who see a couple of people on a leaky boat as some sort of threat.

codswal
Quote:

precisley.. why Howard implemented the Pacific solution which you decry over and over again....it worked.. stupid it worked. it wasnt broke untill rudd/gillard broke it..now you are complaining.well guess what you will have to live with it.just like gillard will.

leftards are not interested in facts or reality

Quote:

leftards are not interested in facts or reality

On the contrary, thats all I'm interested in, pity you only post bullsh it.
Kiwi plane refo go home.

codswal wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 3:34pm:

precisley.. why Howard implemented the Pacific solution which you decry over and over again....it worked.. stupid it worked. it wasnt broke untill rudd/gillard broke it..now you are complaining.well guess what you will have to live with it.just like gillard will.

Yes it did work, but ALP's faceless men wont foster a similar approach due to the contemptuous views they openly held towards Howards pre-2007 solution...which they conveniently, "sympathetically" over-turned by lacing with their own campaign with 'said' good-will alluding to their being the 'said' more lenient and asylum-friendly of the two leading partys. Pfft

When in fact, Labor only served to lead them to their watery graves, not to mention the in-custody deaths they have accumulated along the way in their 3 short years in power to date.



Fact: There are no constitutional barriers to stop Nauru reopening an Australian detention centre ...and had a pacific solution been in place and in full swing when this tragedy occurred, then it could have been prevented.

Cast your minds back to this article...


Quote:

When Labor formed government in 2007, the new Immigration Minister, Chris Evans, condemned the Nauru facility and said refugees had been left to "rot" there. In a 2002 parliamentary report, the cost of establishing the facilities on Manus Island, off the northeast coast of Papua New Guinea, and Nauru was estimated to be about $80 million. The bulk of that money is believed to have gone to Nauru, which was the most used of the two centres. According to Immigration officials, Australia spent about $24m a year on the centre. News of the latest boat came as Tony Abbott challenged Ms Gillard to "pick up the phone" and contact the Nauru government, rather than continuing to pursue the East Timor option, which he said had been sunk by the parliamentary resolution.

http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/nauru-solution-opens-up-to-pm-julia-gillard/story-e6frfllr-1225891407068


Though instead, Gillard chose to ignore the Nauru solution, along with it's keen presidents optimism, who insists it's infrastructure is still in place and would be a welcome proposal by his government.

A Labor government doesn't offer solutions,  it's creates problems, as it procrastinated what could have ultimately saved many lives had they swallowed their pride much sooner and admitted John Howard had the right idea when it came to managing what a Labor government have failed to address, much less deliver in the three short years they have been drunk with power.

Yes, Labor have blood on their hands, so how do you tell grieving refugees their parents, siblings, children, spouses  are now dead because a nations government just couldn't get their act together nor  swallow their pride in order to have thwarted such a senseless needless tragedy, one which could have been avoided?

Why don't we ask the survivors, and relatives of the deceased if they too believe Nauru is a fate worse than death, when 70% of those processed there under Howard 3 years ago were granted Australian residency within 18 months.

Too little too late I'm afraid Miss Gillard.

Your services are no longer desired by your nations people, or even other peoples by the looks of it.

Ultimately, our Labor government had options, though out of stubbornness, political advantage and pride.. chose to ignore them until tragedy struck.

skippy. wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 3:42pm:

Quote: Howard implemented the Pacific solution which you decry over and over again Howard implemented the pacific non solution because he was a media driven little turd. If Howard cared about the number of refos this country was getting he'd have clamped down on  the plane refos which are over 98% of asylum seekers to our shores.But its easier to appease the retards who see a couple of people on a leaky boat as some sort of threat.

But the plane refugees at least arrived here safely in one piece, this and didn't have to resort to people smuggling and child prostitution rackets in order to get here on board a leaky boat.

Can your refugees now washed up on the rocks say the same about a Labor government and it's shipwreck policies?

I don't think so.

8-) Time Labor called it a day I think.

Look on the bright side...no wait, there isn't one.

My mistake.

::)

she is still saying nothing this is what erks me...jargon thats all she spiels.

she now got no choice but to back away from her choice words about Julian Assange.. he didnt do anything illegal by Australian Law..lol..

what a prize twit she is.something strange is happening maybe its my TV set.. but she seems to be shrinking, could be wishful thinking of course.

Gillard and labour can only be clinging to power out of spite to stuff this country further as with Kenneally in NSW.  She  and the Greens have  blood on their hands for failing to stop the boats and to stop accepting illegals.  Millions of dollars are now being wasted on a rescue effort that we cannot afford for people that are already dead.

Still, arriving by leaky boat is probably safer than arriving via our off-shore poorly maintained national airline right now.

This is moving foooeerwaaard is it?

In three years, just how far have we come Australia?

8-)

Prevailing wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 4:44pm:

Gillard and labour can only be clinging to power out of spite to stuff this country further as with Kenneally in NSW.  She  and the Greens have  blood on their hands for failing to stop the boats and to stop accepting illegals.  Millions of dollars are now being wasted on a rescue effort that we cannot afford for people that are already dead.

Without a doubt...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

No, they will just continue reeking havoc until the bitter end, this is the Labor way.

They know they have blown it, so rather than fix it, they will spend the rest of their time in office making life miserable for all Australians...getting in for their chop while they still can.

Gillard will retire on her PM pension, why should she care?

We are virtually being held at ransom by this wayward government, and don't expect Bill Shorten's mother-in-law GG Bryce to intervene any time soon, as it's clear where her loyalty lies and it's not with our nations people or the Queen she took an oath to serve.

mellie wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 4:53pm:

Still, arriving by leaky boat is probably safer than arriving via our off-shore poorly maintained national airline right now. This is moving foooeerwaaard is it? In three years, just how far have we come Australia? 8-)

I think its time we called another election so at least we get a fair chance at getting it right....

I cant believe anyone wants a Lab/Green govt do you?????..

shes handcuffed herself to that twit browen.. and look what we have got .. an impotent govt..and wait till July when the greenman really feels his power...

If an election were held now, she would undoubtedly lose, Labor know this thus will hold on until the bitter end, irrespective of their apparent failings and Australians having lost all respect for their government.

If they had any respect at all, they would all resign from cabinet.


::)

mellie wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 5:08pm:

If an election were held now, she would undoubtedly lose, Labor know this thus will hold on until the bitter end, irrespective of their apparent failings and Australians having lost all respect for their government. If they had any respect at all, they would all resign from cabinet. ::)

In the meantime Julia Gillard is risking the lives of people who are being lured to Australia by her honeypot policy.


How many more deaths will it take before Julia Gillard admits she is a failure?
And what will be the reaction if/when another boat load or any deaths occur and Julia Gillard still hasn't disencouraged the boat people and people smugglers?
When will be able to talk about the deaths directly caused by Julia Gillard's soft policies? Before the next boatload of dead boatpeople or after?

codswal wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 4:40pm:

she is still saying nothing this is what erks me...jargon thats all she spiels. she now got no choice but to back away from her choice words about Julian Assange.. he didnt do anything illegal by Australian Law..lol.. what a prize twit she is.something strange is happening maybe its my TV set.. but she seems to be shrinking, could be wishful thinking of course.

Shrinking vertically, expanding horizontally.

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on May 31^st, 1970 at 12:28am:

she is still saying nothing this is what erks me...jargon thats all she spiels. she now got no choice but to back away from her choice words about Julian Assange.. he didnt do anything illegal by Australian Law..lol.. what a prize twit she is.something strange is happening maybe its my TV set.. but she seems to be shrinking, could be wishful thinking of course.

Shrinking vertically, expanding horizontally.[/quote]



ha.ha.. I dont know about that its a while since I have seen her standing up...her bum has got wider though..poor thing stress does that!

codswal wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 6:20pm:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on May 31st, 1970 at 12:28am: she is still saying nothing this is what erks me...jargon thats all she spiels. she now got no choice but to back away from her choice words about Julian Assange.. he didnt do anything illegal by Australian Law..lol.. what a prize twit she is.something strange is happening maybe its my TV set.. but she seems to be shrinking, could be wishful thinking of course. Shrinking vertically, expanding horizontally.

ha.ha.. I dont know about that its a while since I have seen her standing up...her bum has got wider though..poor thing stress does that![/quote]



Julia Gillard has been in talks with Imax.

anne - congratulations.

the leftards here are so disgusting pig ignorant it is like talking to muzzies.

they can go eat pigshit

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 8:34pm:

anne - congratulations. the leftards here are so disgusting pig ignorant it is like talking to muzzies. they can go eat pigshit

Ooh, abusing people from the anonymity of the net. Such courage you possess!

the 'rangas amazing control of nothing continues.


Quote:

........“We do need to face the grim reality that it is becoming increasingly unlikely and an increasingly remote possibility that survivors will be found at this stage,” she said in Sydney........

what a useless peabrain she is

Labor were warned three months after it came to power back in 2007 that its closure of the Nauru detention centre would cause an unprecedented spike in people smuggling to Australia and in doing so increase the likelihood of tragedy.

I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner, it was only a matter of time, was a tragedy waiting to happen, and quite aloof on Labors behalf if not downright careless.

Did they think the pacific would find it's own solution?

A grim reminder that embarking on our shores this way is dangerous.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 8:34pm:

anne - congratulations. the leftards here are so disgusting pig ignorant it is like talking to muzzies. they can go eat pigshit

LOL

I think you give the lefties far more credit than they deserve.

mellie wrote on Dec 17^th, 2010 at 8:58pm:

Labor were warned three months after it came to power back in 2007 that its closure of the Nauru detention centre would cause an unprecedented spike in people smuggling to Australia and in doing so increase the likelihood of tragedy. I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner, it was only a matter of time, was a tragedy waiting to happen, and quite aloof on Labors behalf if not downright careless. Did they think the pacific would find it's own solution? A grim reminder that embarking on our shores this way is dangerous.

Just another disasterous policy failure by the ALP, and they know it and yet they still want to lure people to Australia.
It is Julia Gillard's go soft policy that is directly putting these boat people into a place of danger that is causing this.
It reeks of criminal negligence and intent by Julia Gillard.
Julia Gillard knows that she is doingthis, and what is she doing to stop or prevgent it? Nothing, if any Julia Gillard is sweetening the honeypot by relaxing policies even further when she allowed families that arrive with children that arrive won't be held in detention centres.
Dead babies are on Julia Gillards conscience - if she has one.
Just what Australia needs a dried up barren ranga controlling the monkeys that deem themselves as lefties that are capable of voting.

It's not rocket science, and any fool can see where the problem arose and what they should do to prevent the continue arrival of boat people.
If a business saw such a spike at two positions they would quickly revert back to where the situation was working.


So what is Julia Gillard's excuse? Is she admitting that any fool is more intelligent than herself?
Is Julia Gillard really that blind?
Is Julia Gillard that obstinate, so pointlessly and childishly stubborn?
Doesn't Julia Gillard realise that more boats are arriving and that more people's lives are at risk?
Let's face it, Julia Gillard will not open up Nauru, not because the Pacific Solution was working, not because the centre is established, not because it would stop the people arriving or stop the people dying, and not because it is the cheapest solution either.
But Julia Gillard won't open up Nauru because of her own selfish narcissistic ego.
Julia Gillard has heard it many times, "We told you so" but Julia Gillard has turned off her hearing aid, and refuses to put in new batteries.
Julia Gillard is willing to risk and sacrifice more lives on her policy that has failed and continues to fail because it simply cannot be successful.

---

....that little child laying face down in the 4 metre swell.


INDONESIA must be held responsible for this and Australia must stand up to this !!

You've got a stronger stomach than I have jasignature

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Dec 18^th, 2010 at 5:43am:

....that little child laying face down in the 4 metre swell. INDONESIA must be held responsible for this and Australia must stand up to this !!

omg was that a child I thought they said it was a woman.

its so bad people with children have been standing on the rocks watching this play out....its appalling.

its a long time since I have been shocked by what I have seen on the news..but this will take a lot of beating I am sure its gone round the world by now.......horrible.

Julia Gillard said yesterday that Australian Federal Police officers were interviewing the three crewmen. "The investigation is progressing," the Prime Minister said. "Australian authorities are working closely with a people-smuggling taskforce from the Indonesian national police. This collaboration has been successful in the past, with the arrest of 112 people-smuggling organisers."From: The Australian December 18, 2010 12:00AM



It hasn't stopped them though, has it ?

Open Nauru and stop the smugglers and the deaths for once and for all

Maybe  I can suggest to assylum seekers to take a plane and over stay your visa...!

It not only  shuts them up it happily stops Abbott's using his slogan STOP the BOATS.

If the Coaltion and  supporters were really concerned about the assylum seekers they would allow them to be process here safely.

You will NEVER stop the boats. As much as you never- even with laws - stop any determine   behavior !

wrote on Dec 18^th, 2010 at 8:40am:

Maybe  I can suggest to assylum seekers to take a plane and over stay your visa...! It not only  shuts them up it happily stops Abbott's using his slogan STOP the BOATS.

I agree ,we need to start a movement to inform people seeking to come to Australia not to spend their money on boats ,planes are cheap nowadays, even if they have no other money,as soon as they hit Aus, claim refugee status, lets face it that what 98% of refugees coming here do anyway.
If they did that all the xenophobic rightards wouldn't even know they were here. Bolt Akerman and that bitch with balls, Devine, wouldn't be able to spin half the sh it they do without footage of  asylum seekers "invading" us on boats. ;D

wrote on Dec 18^th, 2010 at 8:47am:

If the Coaltion and  supporters were really concerned about the assylum seekers they would allow them to be process here safely. You will NEVER stop the boats. As much as you never- even with laws - stop any determine   behavior !

This is a prime example of the ignorance and stupidity that the human mind is capable of.

skippy. wrote on Dec 18^th, 2010 at 8:53am:

wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 8:40am: Maybe  I can suggest to assylum seekers to take a plane and over stay your visa...! It not only  shuts them up it happily stops Abbott's using his slogan STOP the BOATS. I agree ,we need to start a movement to inform people seeking to come to Australia not to spend their money on boats ,planes are cheap nowadays, even if they have no other money,as soon as they hit Aus, claim refugee status, lets face it that what 98% of refugees coming here do anyway. If they did that all the xenophobic rightards wouldn't even know they were here. Bolt Akerman and that bitch with balls, Devine, wouldn't be able to spin half the sh it they do without footage of  asylum seekers "invading" us on boats. ;D

Exibit B.