Looks like the Afghanistan project for democracy is going great there guys, bravo.

---

Who made Kabul corrupt?
Pious bromides about tackling corruption in Afghanistan cannot hide the fact that the buck stops in Washington

Pratap Chatterjee
Sunday 12 September 2010 15.00 BST

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/10/28/1256743124044/Ahmad-Wali-Karzai-001.jpg
Ahmad Wali Karzai, brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who has been reported by the New York Times to be simultaneously a major player in the illegal opium trade and on the payroll of the CIA. Photograph: AP

Afghan intelligence officers beat back Afghan police officers who mobbed the only branch of Kabul Bank open in the capital on Wednesday, in a desperate attempt to draw money before it closed for Eid al-Fitr, the most important festival of the year in Islamic countries. Eid marks the end of a month of Ramadan fasting and most Afghans spend a small fortune on food and presents for the holiday.

Most of the 250,000 government employees in Afghanistan receive their salaries via electronic transfer to Kabul Bank, the country's largest private bank, which is reported to be on the verge of collapse. Blame has been cast on the biggest borrower – a man named Abdul Hasin, who was given $100m for a variety of projects which he has not repaid. Hasin happens to be the half-brother of the vice president of the country, Mohammed Qasim Fahim.

A little less than a year ago, I visited the heavily guarded headquarters of Abdul Hasin's business conglomerate – Zahid Walid – in the wealthy Kabul neighbourhood of Wazir Akbar Khan, not far from the even more heavily fortified US embassy. Neither Hasin nor Fahim were wealthy when the US invaded Afghanistan in 2001, but as the de facto leader of the Northern Alliance, Fahim was perfectly placed to profit from the new opportunities created by the collapse of the Taliban.

Ramin Seddiqui, the managing director of the Zahid Walid's diesel import business, filled me in on how the business grew: first, a series of lucrative contracts to pour concrete for a Nato base, as well as portions of the US embassy being rebuilt in Kabul and the city's airport, which was in a state of disrepair.

On a plot of land in downtown Kabul acquired for a pittance by Fahim, Abdul Hasin also financed the construction of a high-rise building dubbed "Goldpoint", which now houses dozens of jewelry shops. Soon, the company was importing Russian gas, and not long after that, Abdul Hasin set up the Gas Group, which markets bottled gas to households and small businesses.

Beginning in the winter of 2006, Zahid Walid won over $90m in contracts from the Afghan ministry of energy and water to supply fuel to the diesel power plants in Kabul. (I was involved in making a video for Channel 4 investigating the overspending on the Tarakhil diesel plant.)

The business deals of Abdul Hasin were legal, but given their apparent failure, major questions can – and should – be raised about nepotism and backroom deals cut by the Bush and the Obama administrations in their drive to combat corruption in Afghanistan. Hasin's epic default hardly makes him the only businessman whose dealings deserve closer scrutiny – his business partner is Mahmoud Karzai, brother of the president, who flipped a house Dubai's Palm Jumeirah with the Kabul Bank's former chairman, Sher Khan Farnood. Karzai was quoted this week saying: "Making a profit on a house is beautiful."

Mohammed Zia Salehi, the chief of administration for the national security council who was recently arrested – then released, at President Karzai's behest – in a corruption investigation, appears to have been on the CIA payroll for many years, according to the New York Times, as is Ahmed Wali Karzai, another brother of the president.

What is to be done about these gentlemen? In a report released this week, Anthony Cordesman, a former Pentagon official who now works at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. Titled "Time to Look in the Mirror", the report correctly notes that low-level corruption is not the problem:

"Unfortunately, the worst aspects of this corruption are largely the product of our mistakes. The fact is that we are at least as much to blame for what has happened as the Afghans, and we have been grindingly slow either to admit our faults or to correct them."

There is absolutely no doubt in the mind of anyone in Kabul that corruption is endemic among Afghanistan's ruling elite. But who granted the contracts, put them on the payroll and gave them the money?

So, when are we going to see those CIA and Pentagon officials in Washington DC facing charges?

Source: The Guardian

That's the dilemma (white man's burden, dare I say it?) for the west: in those sorts of countries the choice is a plain son of bitch in charge (Iran, Gaza, Zimbabwe) or 'our' son of a bitch in charge (Afghanistan, Iraq). Unfortunately we cannot completely re-colonise them and install proper government by our boys out of Washington, London or Canberra.  

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think."

Soren wrote on Sep 13^th, 2010 at 10:19pm:

That's the dilemma (white man's burden, dare I say it?) for the west: in those sorts of countries the choice is a plain son of bitch in charge (Iran, Gaza, Zimbabwe) or 'our' son of a bitch in charge (Afghanistan, Iraq). Unfortunately we cannot completely re-colonise them and install proper government by our boys out of Washington, London or Canberra.   You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." You can show them the benefits of a free society but you can't make them think.

Soren wrote on Sep 13^th, 2010 at 10:20pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:19pm: That's the dilemma (white man's burden, dare I say it?) for the west: in those sorts of countries the choice is a plain son of bitch in charge (Iran, Gaza, Zimbabwe) or 'our' son of a bitch in charge (Afghanistan, Iraq). Unfortunately we cannot completely re-colonise them and install proper government by our boys out of Washington, London or Canberra.   You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." You can show them the benefits of a free society but you can't make them think.

The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down.

Soren wrote on Sep 13^th, 2010 at 10:19pm:

But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think."

Actually Soren, I think it was Dorethy Parker  ;D

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 13^th, 2010 at 8:33pm:

Looks like the Afghanistan project for democracy is going great there guys, bravo. Who made Kabul corrupt? Pious bromides about tackling corruption in Afghanistan cannot hide the fact that the buck stops in Washington Pratap Chatterjee Sunday 12 September 2010 15.00 BST http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/10/28/1256743124044/Ahmad-Wali-Karzai-001.jpg Ahmad Wali Karzai, brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who has been reported by the New York Times to be simultaneously a major player in the illegal opium trade and on the payroll of the CIA. Photograph: AP Afghan intelligence officers beat back Afghan police officers who mobbed the only branch of Kabul Bank open in the capital on Wednesday, in a desperate attempt to draw money before it closed for Eid al-Fitr, the most important festival of the year in Islamic countries. Eid marks the end of a month of Ramadan fasting and most Afghans spend a small fortune on food and presents for the holiday. Most of the 250,000 government employees in Afghanistan receive their salaries via electronic transfer to Kabul Bank, the country's largest private bank, which is reported to be on the verge of collapse. Blame has been cast on the biggest borrower – a man named Abdul Hasin, who was given $100m for a variety of projects which he has not repaid. Hasin happens to be the half-brother of the vice president of the country, Mohammed Qasim Fahim. A little less than a year ago, I visited the heavily guarded headquarters of Abdul Hasin's business conglomerate – Zahid Walid – in the wealthy Kabul neighbourhood of Wazir Akbar Khan, not far from the even more heavily fortified US embassy. Neither Hasin nor Fahim were wealthy when the US invaded Afghanistan in 2001, but as the de facto leader of the Northern Alliance, Fahim was perfectly placed to profit from the new opportunities created by the collapse of the Taliban. Ramin Seddiqui, the managing director of the Zahid Walid's diesel import business, filled me in on how the business grew: first, a series of lucrative contracts to pour concrete for a Nato base, as well as portions of the US embassy being rebuilt in Kabul and the city's airport, which was in a state of disrepair. On a plot of land in downtown Kabul acquired for a pittance by Fahim, Abdul Hasin also financed the construction of a high-rise building dubbed "Goldpoint", which now houses dozens of jewelry shops. Soon, the company was importing Russian gas, and not long after that, Abdul Hasin set up the Gas Group, which markets bottled gas to households and small businesses. Beginning in the winter of 2006, Zahid Walid won over $90m in contracts from the Afghan ministry of energy and water to supply fuel to the diesel power plants in Kabul. (I was involved in making a video for Channel 4 investigating the overspending on the Tarakhil diesel plant.) The business deals of Abdul Hasin were legal, but given their apparent failure, major questions can – and should – be raised about nepotism and backroom deals cut by the Bush and the Obama administrations in their drive to combat corruption in Afghanistan. Hasin's epic default hardly makes him the only businessman whose dealings deserve closer scrutiny – his business partner is Mahmoud Karzai, brother of the president, who flipped a house Dubai's Palm Jumeirah with the Kabul Bank's former chairman, Sher Khan Farnood. Karzai was quoted this week saying: "Making a profit on a house is beautiful." Mohammed Zia Salehi, the chief of administration for the national security council who was recently arrested – then released, at President Karzai's behest – in a corruption investigation, appears to have been on the CIA payroll for many years, according to the New York Times, as is Ahmed Wali Karzai, another brother of the president. What is to be done about these gentlemen? In a report released this week, Anthony Cordesman, a former Pentagon official who now works at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. Titled "Time to Look in the Mirror", the report correctly notes that low-level corruption is not the problem: "Unfortunately, the worst aspects of this corruption are largely the product of our mistakes. The fact is that we are at least as much to blame for what has happened as the Afghans, and we have been grindingly slow either to admit our faults or to correct them." There is absolutely no doubt in the mind of anyone in Kabul that corruption is endemic among Afghanistan's ruling elite. But who granted the contracts, put them on the payroll and gave them the money? So, when are we going to see those CIA and Pentagon officials in Washington DC facing charges? Source: The Guardian

Free enterprise is the hallmark of Democracy Abu.
No-one ever said the road to Democracy was going to be smooth.

Karzai's brother, Mahmud, swaggers into the Kabul Bank carrying a black briefcase. Dressed in jeans, pointy boots, gold rings and a suit jacket covering a packed holster, Mahmud is ready for action.

"How may I help you, sir?"

"Give me one - no. Five million."

"Do you have an account with us, sir?"

"Abesh! Do I have an account!? Where is your boss?"

"He's currently dealing with another client, sir. If I may be of help..."

Mahmud spits out of the corner of his mouth. "Do you know who I am?"

"You are a customer, sir."

Mahmud studies the teller's face. "Customer."

"May I have your name, sir?"

"You know who the president is?"

"Of course, sir."

"You know who owns this place?"

The teller's jaw drops.

"Please forgive me, sir. I will get the manager."

Mahmud's eyes follow the teller like a crocodile. He pulls out a cigar, bites off the end and lights a match on the sole of his boot. He lights his cigar and drops the match on the marble floor, dead. "Customer..."

Mahmud knows there are no customers in Kabul, only fish. And sharks. Mahmud learned business in the West. In the West they know how to do business. In Afghanistan all they know how to do is sit around drinking tea and smoking hookahs. In the West, Mahmud learned the art of the deal.

The bank manager glides out and offers to greet Mahmud with both arms in the Afghani way. "Mr Karzai, sir!"

Mahmud holds him off with a stare, the cigar smoking between his teeth.

"Allow me to express my gratitude that you are using our humble branch to complete your transactions!"

"Five million. Dollars." He hands the briefcase over.

The teller looks on from behind the counter's bars.

"Of course, Mr Karzai. Immediately. Will you take tea?"

Mahmud sucks his teeth. "Give me coffee. But make it quick."

"Yes, sir. Of course, I must obtain the money. Unless you'd prefer a cheque."

Mahmud eyes the manager like a crocodile.

"We will obtain the bills, Mr Karzai." He turns to the teller. "Bills! Dollars! Run!" He turns to give Mahmud a wide grin. "Come, sir. We will have coffee."

The manager carries Mahmud's briefcase like a Faberge egg. Outside, a security guard squats on the pavement with an old carbine rifle, his epelettes sagging on his ill-fitting sleeves. It is 45 degrees. A beggar, with stumps instead of legs, looks up at the sky. The Americans fly sorties at this time every day.

The sun beats down on the new Afghanistan, a land of customers with hopes and dreams. The teller runs from branch to branch, collecting bills in a sack and overhead, right on time, the silent American planes cast their shadows over the buildings. Five seconds later, as they reach the horizon, their roar cancels out the sound of the Kabul streets.

Quote:

The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down

Agreed!

The garbage religion of 'Western democracy', that infects all the Muslim lands and has turned them into absolute pits of filth will drag them down until it is wholeheartedly rejected and spat back out where it belongs, in the West.

Only through Islam can dignity be regained.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:51pm:

Quote: The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down Agreed! The garbage religion of 'Western democracy', that infects all the Muslim lands and has turned them into absolute pits of filth will drag them down until it is wholeheartedly rejected and spat back out where it belongs, in the West. Only through Islam can dignity be regained.

Au contraire, democracy has never 'infected' Muslims. There has never, ever been democracy and civil society in a Muslim country. From your posts, we know why. But that's ther problem - even the smartest ones are intellectually as stunted as you are. Stuck in a psychological time warp, unable either to go back or to go ahead. Paralysed and now revolting against whatever is near you - to you, its westerners, for muslims elsewhere it is other muslims, hindus, Thai buddhists, jews, the Chinese, black animists - everybody.

'Filthy garbage religion democracy' is just an excuse for not facing facts and realising that the Muslims are where they are because Allah wants them there. But that just makes you angry. The pure Muslims are supposed to be the new chosen people and they are buggered everywhere.

What can YOU do, you ask? Here's what Mohammed says:
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/mohammed/Mohammed_tractordriver.jpg

Hey! That's Imran Khan driving that tractor.


Quote:

Agreed! The garbage religion of 'Western democracy', that infects all the Muslim lands and has turned them into absolute pits of filth will drag them down until it is wholeheartedly rejected and spat back out where it belongs, in the West. Only through Islam can dignity be regained.

Then why did they choose to sell their oil to the west instead of using it for the only purpose that they knew?  ie: Alladin's lamps.
If not for the west, the entire Arab economies would still be relying on hashish and faquari rugs.
Let's face it, Arab lands have always been cesspools of filth. Dirty smelly goat herders, camel drivers and filth ridden ghettos.
There was never any Islamic utopia for the common muslim.

The wealth brought about by the dumb luck of having oodles of something which they never knew had any real value has given Arab lands an opportunity to build an Islamic utopia. For the most part, they've completely stuffed it.
When they eventully run out of oil, they'll have nothing to show other than wasted opportunities.



 

Amadd wrote on Sep 16^th, 2010 at 5:45am:

Hey! That's Imran Khan driving that tractor. Quote: Agreed! The garbage religion of 'Western democracy', that infects all the Muslim lands and has turned them into absolute pits of filth will drag them down until it is wholeheartedly rejected and spat back out where it belongs, in the West. Only through Islam can dignity be regained. Then why did they choose to sell their oil to the west instead of using it for the only purpose that they knew?  ie: Alladin's lamps. If not for the west, the entire Arab economies would still be relying on hashish and faquari rugs. Let's face it, Arab lands have always been cesspools of filth. Dirty smelly goat herders, camel drivers and filth ridden ghettos. There was never any Islamic utopia for the common muslim. The wealth brought about by the dumb luck of having oodles of something which they never knew had any real value has given Arab lands an opportunity to build an Islamic utopia. For the most part, they've completely stuffed it. When they eventully run out of oil, they'll have nothing to show other than wasted opportunities.

Yes - it would be alright if they just stayed over there, but no. They have to bring their stinking, ghetto-living, goat-hearding, ways over here too. They call it the spread of Islam.

We've tried to leave them alone, of course. But we must help them develop. If we don't teach them how to do business in a civilized fashion we'll be overun by a world of bazzar touts and camel drivers.

We call it the spread of democracy. If it was up to them, Dubai would still be a desert. But no. Now they have air conditioning. Starbucks. Armani. The goat-hearders have turned into property developers. And they love us for it.

Let's face it. In the modern world, you have a choice: whether to drive a camel or a BMW. This is the beauty of liberal democracy.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:51pm:

Quote: The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down Agreed! The garbage religion of 'Western democracy', that infects all the Muslim lands and has turned them into absolute pits of filth will drag them down until it is wholeheartedly rejected and spat back out where it belongs, in the West. Only through Islam can dignity be regained.

Needs work Abu, a lot more work. Take your time, don`t strain your brain cell.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:51pm:

Quote: The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down Agreed! The garbage religion of 'Western democracy', that infects all the Muslim lands and has turned them into absolute pits of filth will drag them down until it is wholeheartedly rejected and spat back out where it belongs, in the West. Only through Islam can dignity be regained.

And yet, here you are living in a Western democratic country.
You must be doing it tough.

Sheesh Abu, you speak as if we're living here in some sort of degenerate culture.

Sure there are some elements of Western Culture which I take severe issue with, as there are those things I take issue with across a variety of cultures. Conversely, there are many elements of Western Culture which are completely remarkable, as there are those things in other cultures. Cultures need not operate independently of one another.

Ultimately though - the best thing about our culture here in the West - is that I CAN take issue with parts of it, and choose how to live my life accordingly. If I feel particularly strong about an issue, I'm able to advocate for change and, for the most part, not be entirely demonised for it (or worse).

And of course, no one can deny the West's role (particularly the United States, the UK and even France) in encouraging certain types of negative behaviours around the world - but it's well and truly got to the stage where more than one side needs to be held accountable.

Islam (and Islamic Culture) doesn't stand on any sort of pedestal when it comes to the moral high ground - and while the last thing I'm likely to do is engage in attacks on an entire faith and it's followers (ask some around here), you can't deny the role Islam (or at least certain interpretations of it) plays in the truly unfortunate nature of some of these nations in question.

chicken,


Quote:

And yet, here you are living in a Western democratic country. You must be doing it tough.

Well in their own countries the West do not implement it as horribly as they do in their neo-colonies.

jaykaye,


Quote:

Sheesh Abu, you speak as if we're living here in some sort of degenerate culture.

I was speaking more about the corrupt and tyrannical regimes the West thrusts upon the Muslim world.

You seem to have misunderstood me there.


Quote:

Islam (and Islamic Culture) doesn't stand on any sort of pedestal when it comes to the moral high ground - and while the last thing I'm likely to do is engage in attacks on an entire faith and it's followers (ask some around here), you can't deny the role Islam (or at least certain interpretations of it) plays in the truly unfortunate nature of some of these nations in question.

Well actually we can. Because all Muslim lands, without exception, had Islam forcibly removed from them by the West, and replaced with Western-inspired systems. Even the "monarchy" of Saudi Arabia is a Western creation.

Islam had no role in their current situation at all.

Ho hum.  I am glad you lot have it all sorted.  

I can rest easy knowing that right here, it has been resolved.  

Thanks.

and there's a large slice of Australian culture that helps spread all that corruption and chaos too.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 16^th, 2010 at 9:10pm:

chicken, Quote: And yet, here you are living in a Western democratic country. You must be doing it tough. Well in their own countries the West do not implement it as horribly as they do in their neo-colonies. jaykaye, [quote]Sheesh Abu, you speak as if we're living here in some sort of degenerate culture.

I was speaking more about the corrupt and tyrannical regimes the West thrusts upon the Muslim world.

You seem to have misunderstood me there.[/quote]

Effende, sometimes it is our own words that cause confusion. We must learn to reflect upon our words and deeds in the light of the Prophet's commands, insh'allah.

Allah knows all. As man, we sometimes confuse ourselves with the Almighty. Only through submission and prayer can we come to understand that all mans have the seed of Allah within him.

I remember you Karnal,
you were on your prayer rug giving praise to Allah upon Bondi Beach
and I rocked up, unfurled my beach towel (just like the one upon Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy) and gave praise to the One God above.

...I guess every action has a place, and you were far from a Mosque - lost, dazed and confused.

I wonder, this far from the Middle-East, the cradle of Religion, can Islam learn to laugh at itself, condemn itself and even take responsibilty for its actions ?

Karzai learns about his brother's loan on CNN.

"Abesh! Does he think I am running a banana republic here? He is giving me a return of my gastric ulcer already!"

Karzai's manservant, now Minister of Mineral Exploration, goes for the door. "I will get the doktor, Master."

"No! Leave the doktor. Leave me in peace for once. I must pray and go to the Higher Authority."

Karzai's servant is perplexed. "Allah, master?"

"As God will's it, all is one. Now go. Leave me be."

The servant closes the door behind him. After waiting one minute, Karzai opens the door to find the servant, his servant (an undetected CIA plant) and a security guard with a WWI carbine rifle, all trying to listen in.

"Abesh! Jackals! Spies! You think I am a bird in a cage? Enough! Or I'll have you all renditioned to Guantanamo Bay!"

Karzai's staff disperses, leaving him alone. One day, Karzai thinks, Afghanistan will be in the care of these knuckleheads. God help the children.

Karzai lies on his bed and lights a pipe of hashish. Ah, Afghanistan will always have good smoke, at least God wills this. As he blows out a careful plume of blue smoke, the Angel of Death appears.

"Child of God, you are not yourself today."

"How can I be myself, Mistress, when my idiot brother insists on destroying all my work?"

"Again, my child, there are things you do not know. You cannot take the world onto your shoulders. It will give you a gastric ulcer."

"Exactly! That's what I said!"

"See the doktor."

"Are you kidding? He reports to the CIA. Anyway, all he prescribes is paracetamol. What sort of doktor only gives paracetamol?"

"Perhaps he cares for you, my child."

"If he cared he'd give some decent painkillers."

"The aim, dear one, is to cure the source of the pain, not its symptoms."

Karzai is incredulous. "But how can I... ? These knuckleheads, my idiot brother, the Amerikans, the Taliban, the..."

"Submit, my child, and all shall be given unto thee."

"I know! You keep saying! But you don't have to run this place!"

"Calm yourself. Remember that God runs all. We are just his servants."

"Yes, yes, yes..."

"Have you spoken with the Taliban as I requested?"

"Yes, Mistress."

"This is good. Leave your brother. He does God's work."

"He is making himself rich."

"All, by God, deserve to be rich. He is helping our cause."

"Well, that's a relief."

"You are tired, my child. You must sleep."

"I try, I try..."

"I will help you to sleep. Pray for your brother. Pardon him."

"But the Amerikans..."

"The Amerikans will go, my child, just as the Russians before them."

"God knows I want this, Mistress..."

"Good. Now sleep. You must learn not to think too much and let Allah do His work."

The Angel of Death vanishes and leaves Karzai with an overwealming sense of heaviness. The pipe is cold. Karzai places it beside the bed and lays his head on the pillow. He sleeps.

Downstairs, the servants squabble. Outside, the palace walls melt into the haze. In Brussels, Karzai's brother Mahmud, steps from a plane. He will invest in property and become even more rich. But today, for the good of all Afghanistan and the will of God, Karzai sleeps.

Karzai learns to leave all in the hands of God.

---

Karzai praises the Amerikans for their good work.

---

Not bad,
but like I said,
somewhere else but here.
So let go of that Prayer Rug,
and lay upon a Beach Towel
in the here and now.
Let go of that which is 'precioussssssssss' to you.
Embrace Oceania and forget the Middle-East, Namerica and Afghanistan.
Join with us deep beneath the waves, beyond the sand and down into the darkness of the Abyss until you are one with Hadal that is within.

<enter evil villanous laugh>
;D
taste the forbidden fruit that the Aboriginal Rainbow Serpent offers you "Oh moslem" and know the difference ...know the difference.

<enter evil villanous laugh>
;D

Karzai thanks the Taliban.

---

Karzai alludes to his relationship with the Angel of Death.

---

Karzai tolerates his knucklehead guards.

---

Abesh! Out of my sight!

---

The Mistress tells me to leave security in the hands of God. With the knuckleheads I have to deal with, what choice do I have?

---

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Sep 17^th, 2010 at 12:24pm:

Not bad, but like I said, somewhere else but here. So let go of that Prayer Rug, and lay upon a Beach Towel in the here and now. Let go of that which is 'precioussssssssss' to you. Embrace Oceania and forget the Middle-East, Namerica and Afghanistan. Join with us deep beneath the waves, beyond the sand and down into the darkness of the Abyss until you are one with Hadal that is within. <enter evil villanous laugh> ;D taste the forbidden fruit that the Aboriginal Rainbow Serpent offers you "Oh moslem" and know the difference ...know the difference. <enter evil villanous laugh> ;D

Karzai has experienced both the darkness of the abyss and the light of day. He knows God dwells in all things. He isn't choosy.

But how to live? How to deal with the day to day? How to clean up after the knuckleheads that have been placed under your command? Or the Amerikans? Or the Taliban? Or Iran and China waiting in the wings?

Karzai knows that God works through one's actions, but when each move seems cursed and destined to fail, how does one act at all?

To be or not to be - that is the question.

Karzai is happy to submit to God, the Angel of Death, the Taliban, the Amerikans, whomever. But in the end, everything comes back to haunt him. In the end, history shall judge Karzai, not God or the Angel of Death, who history shall easily forget.

Afghanistan does not have the luxury of beach towels. It is lucky to have factories that make artificial limbs. Karzai understands the gravity of his decisions, but he can never know their outcome. This, in the end, is in the hand of destiny.

The Owl of Minerva flies only at the dusk.

Karzai knows this. He has never seen the owl, of course, but each night he sees the sun setting over Kabul.

Why is Karzi wearing a skirt?

Who gives a flying *F"* or a Rat's arse about Karzi ! ::)
We are more concerned with you Karnal (Knowledge?).
You seem upset with stuff happening somewhere else in the 'fabric'
of space and time.

Release yourself from the shackles of 'conviction',
let go of such meaningless things.

Jump into a Billabong and see the Reflection as the Abyss looks into you.
...release the Ring
...release Allah.

come to your new people
...here in Oceania.

<enter evil villanous laugh>
;D

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Sep 17^th, 2010 at 1:44pm:

Who gives a flying *F"* or a Rat's arse about Karzi ! ::)

My friend, Mr Karzi is the US-installed and democratically-elected president of Afghanistan. Not only does he hold the post of head of state, but he must also action and approve the policies of the government - largely installed by Karzi, but on the whole a bunch of knuckleheads.

The question is whether Karzi himself shapes history, or whether history is destined by structures outside his control. Should Karzi focus on the Will to Power, or fate?

Look Karnal,
Afghanistan had many opportunities to express itself as a so-called Islamic (Religious) nation,
but instead it sought empowerment through Military and Drug avenues and thus it sits with Politics as the main power now and all its corruption.
Until so-called Moslems renounce such things and just carry books (doesn't really matter what the story says) as a dedication to educating the world to the gift of Reading & Writing
...Afghanistan will SUFFER.

Religion = Books.

Its easy isn't it.

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Sep 17^th, 2010 at 4:15pm:

Look Karnal, Afghanistan had many opportunities to express itself as a so-called Islamic (Religious) nation, but instead it sought empowerment through Military and Drug avenues and thus it sits with Politics as the main power now and all its corruption. Until so-called Moslems renounce such things and just carry books (doesn't really matter what the story says) as a dedication to educating the world to the gift of Reading & Writing ...Afghanistan will SUFFER. Religion = Books. Its easy isn't it.

Karzai is a Muslim. John Howard was a Christian.

To be honest, I don't think Karzai thinks much about Islam. He just knows the basics - enough to get on with the Taliban.

Mind you, he doesn't mind Drug avenues, but he gets certain underlings to score for him - usually the CIA plants who want to keep him in control.

The doktor is the worst. He likes to see Karzai hanging out - it's a relationship of power and control. Karzai can't stand him.

Afghanistan could do worse than reading Karzai's biography. I've posted exerpts here for us to read. Only by understanding the mind of Karzai can the world come to terms with the issues that face all of us: religion, reading, life, death, fate, existence, you name it.

We need to educate ourselves on the mind of one Hamed Karzai.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 2:15pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:20pm: Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:19pm: That's the dilemma (white man's burden, dare I say it?) for the west: in those sorts of countries the choice is a plain son of bitch in charge (Iran, Gaza, Zimbabwe) or 'our' son of a bitch in charge (Afghanistan, Iraq). Unfortunately we cannot completely re-colonise them and install proper government by our boys out of Washington, London or Canberra.   You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." You can show them the benefits of a free society but you can't make them think. The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down.

I've thought Afghans are not Arabs. Are they?

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 2:19pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:19pm: But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." Actually Soren, I think it was Dorethy Parker  ;D

Indeed, it was.

SHe had another witty thing to say about the current thread (trying to bring civilisation to Muslim countries):

You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.

Just so.  :P



It's has been our collective and inexplicably long-standing delusion to think that they are just like us. I don't even put the two  - they and us - into a hierarchy, just want to emphasise that treating the two as alike is fatal and stupid. We have been too stupid for too long simply for wanting to appear nice.

Now the United States of America, a lost hope? Maybe if they spend a little more money on education, that might sway their population towards human.
  "* 50 percent of adults cannot read a book written at an eighth grade level.
   * 20 percent of Americans are functionally illiterate and read below a 5th grade level.
   * Nearly half of all Americans read so poorly that they cannot find a single piece of information when reading a short publication."

"As of 2008, 66% (2/3rds) of US population was overweight and about 31% American adults being obese. Moreover, the obesity statistics for children in America in the year 2008 was, 32% children were overweight and 17% children between the ages 2 to 19 were obese. Six of the 50 states of America had an obesity rate higher than 30%. The main causes of obesity in America is modernization which can resulted in an unhealthy eating and sedentary lifestyle."

"# In Georgia those charged and convicted for either oral or anal sex can be sentenced to no less than one year and no more than 20 years imprisonment.
# In Missouri sexually deviant behavior between people of the same sex is classified as a class A misdemeanor.
# Places where oral sex is illegal: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Virginia and Washington D.C."
This can't be the United States of America can it!?

Most incarcerated prisoners Per Capita.
"The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world The U.S. incarceration rate on December 31, 2008 was 754 inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents, or 0.75%. The USA also has the highest total documented prison and jail population in the world."

"35.9 million people live below the poverty line in America, including 12.9 million children."

"Americans now spend more than 90 percent of their lives indoors."

athos wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2010 at 11:30am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 15th, 2010 at 2:15pm: Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:20pm: Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:19pm: That's the dilemma (white man's burden, dare I say it?) for the west: in those sorts of countries the choice is a plain son of bitch in charge (Iran, Gaza, Zimbabwe) or 'our' son of a bitch in charge (Afghanistan, Iraq). Unfortunately we cannot completely re-colonise them and install proper government by our boys out of Washington, London or Canberra.   You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." You can show them the benefits of a free society but you can't make them think. The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down. I've thought Afghans are not Arabs. Are they?

NO the afghans are NOT arabs...

Quote:

NO the afghans are NOT arabs...

They're something foreign like that, that's all that matters.

athos wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2010 at 11:30am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 15th, 2010 at 2:15pm: Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:20pm: Soren wrote on Sep 13th, 2010 at 10:19pm: That's the dilemma (white man's burden, dare I say it?) for the west: in those sorts of countries the choice is a plain son of bitch in charge (Iran, Gaza, Zimbabwe) or 'our' son of a bitch in charge (Afghanistan, Iraq). Unfortunately we cannot completely re-colonise them and install proper government by our boys out of Washington, London or Canberra.   You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But Mae West's variation applies even better to those sons of bitches: "you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." You can show them the benefits of a free society but you can't make them think. The Arabic people will never advance to a human level while they have that psychopathic religion dragging them down. I've thought Afghans are not Arabs. Are they?

The same applies to ALL followers of this cult.  However, your "comment" was totally irrelevant, and thoroughly based on SFA.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2010 at 8:11pm:

Quote: NO the afghans are NOT arabs... They're something foreign like that, that's all that matters.

Or both painted with a broad stripe of the yip yip, fruitloop brush.

Abu Rashid once again posts a whole heap of rubbish again in another thread, but thats typical of him,

Unfortunatley America and its allies are dealing with a people who really do not want to help themselves, even though most of them probably dont wanna see the taliban return, of course the afghan national government is riddled with corruption and there is no doubting that and its undermining the efforts of the americans and it allies there, and that half of the afghan army is high on hashish doesnt help matters either.

It is in EVERYBODY's interest that the Muslims remain fractious, underdeveloped and poor. It is in America's, Russia's, China's interest, it is in Turkey's and Saudi's interest to undermine Persia, Persia's interest to weaken both. It is in China's interest to maintain the Pakistani-Indian conflict. It is in India's interest to keep the Muslims in western China restive.

In a word, it is in the whole world's interest to keep the Muslims unhappy.




Terry Jones, asymmetrical warrior
By Spengler
…
Meet the Reverend Terry Jones, asymmetrical warrior. It appears that pinpricks can produce chain reactions in the Islamic world. The threat may be termed asymmetrical because Islam is more vulnerable to theological war than Christianity (or for that matter Judaism).

As the youngest of the major religions (apart from Sikhism), Islam must defend its historical narrative more fiercely than the older religions. Islam never withstood the withering criticism of Enlightenment scholars from Spinoza to the Jesus Project determined to discredit sacred texts. And because the Koran is not a human report of God's word, like the Christian and Jewish bibles, but rather the "uncreated word" of Allah himself, any challenge to its authority cuts at Islam's credibility. The fact that Islam has established neither a Magisterium in the Catholic sense, nor an authoritative tradition like that of Orthodox Judaism, leaves it decentralized, divided and fractious.

…

As George Packer wrote on the New Yorker website on September 10, "Reason tries in its patient, level-headed way to explain, to question, to weigh competing claims, but it can hardly make itself heard and soon gives up ... One man in Gainesville who represents next to nobody triggers thousands of men around the globe who know next to nothing about it to turn violent, which triggers more violence ... it's so easy to get people to go crazy. If I wanted to, I could probably start another India-Pakistan war all by myself." Several of the world's intelligence services doubtless are thinking along the same lines.

Instead of trying to stabilize the Islamic world, suppose - just for the sake of argument - that one or two world powers set out to throw it into chaos. I am not advocating such a strategy, only evaluating its effectiveness.
It is a misperception that America is the main object of Muslim rage. Most Muslim rage is directed against other Muslims. Religious violence perpetrated by Muslims against other Muslims is a routine feature of life in Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Lebanon and Afghanistan. Of the 1,868 acts of religious violence listed by the Global Terrorism Database, all but a handful were conducted by Muslims on Muslims. America has done its best to suppress such violence. What if America (or Russia, or India, or China) were to incite it?

Soren wrote on Sep 24^th, 2010 at 11:01am:

It is in EVERYBODY's interest that the Muslims remain fractious, underdeveloped and poor. It is in America's, Russia's, China's interest, it is in Turkey's and Saudi's interest to undermine Persia, Persia's interest to weaken both. It is in China's interest to maintain the Pakistani-Indian conflict. It is in India's interest to keep the Muslims in western China restive. In a word, it is in the whole world's interest to keep the Muslims unhappy.

The CIA Station Chief reads the latest report. Good. Things are turning out nicely. The doktor seems to be working again, although God knows what he does with his time. There are no golf courses in Kabul.

Not for the locals, anyway.

The doktor is impossible to control, just like everyone else in this godforsaken country. You put them on a comfortable anuity and you'd think they'd work for you, right? Wrong. The more comfortable they get, the less they do for you. The CIA is experienced with this phenomenon, and Kabul's Station Chief is no exception. He was a junior field officer in Panama when Norriega was just a grunt in the army. Thanks to the CIA and the clandestine work of the Chief, Norriega made it into the top job. But then he turned. They always do.

Give them a knife, and they place it in your liver. But if everybody hates Uncle so much, why do they queue up for the knife?

The doktor gets a cool million each year in CIA dollars. In Afghanistan, it's good money. Good enough to build himself a house off the coast of Dubai and keep his wife in Versace burqas. If the CIA dealt in ethics they'd be broke, but its ethical enough. Pharmaceutical companies pay similar money, and what would the doktor do with an Afghani wage, even as Karzai's personal physician?

But he won't work. Getting him to cough up information is one thing, but getting him to keep Karzai sufficiently medicated is another. The information always has to be independantly verified, and Karzai is on and off his meds like an outpatient at Bellview. The doktor says it's Karzai's fault, but the CIA pay him good money to be the doktor.

"You're the doctor. He's meant to be on his medication. If he doesn't take it orally, there are other ways."

"My friend, a president must take it orally. There is no other way."

"Yeah? And how many presidents have you had? I've been through a few and I can tell you, the only way to do it is to hold them down and..."

Luckily, the doktor is saved by the Chief's red phone.

Keeping Karzai happy is an effort of Himalayan proportions. The medication a spit in the ocean. Keeping the rest of Afghanistan unhappy is much easier. Only by keeping Karzai properly medicated and suitably busy can the CIA do its job. Keeping Karzai from slitting his own throat is an effort, but keeping the population hungry and poor is relatively easy. The CIA have experience, of course, but the Russians also made their contribution. Everyone, it seems, has had a hand in the misery of the Afghans, but it does help to have Karzai at the helm.

The doktor spends most of his time in the kitchen, overseeing the staff. Having trained in Marseilles, the doktor sees himself as an expert in food. Placing a spoon to his lips, the doktor winces his displeasure.

"Merde! This is meant to be a consome! No good. Throw it away."

The cook is perplexed. "Away? But Doktor, I must ask why."

"Look here - it is not clear. A consome must shine through."

"Doktor, the guests arrive in 20 minutes - I have no time!"

"Abesh! Do it."

The doktor leaves the kitchen to inspect the waiters and share the misery around. The only people he will leave are the security staff. For some reason, no one ever bothers the security staff. Perhaps everyone understands that security is a task best left to experts. This might explain why the mosques in Kabul are full with people praying to God.

While the doktor does his rounds, the Chief deals with security. The Taliban recently threatened to contaminate Karbul's water supply with LSD. Considering the options, the CIA decided that inaction was the most ideal policy. Anyone who drank the water in Afghanistan was surely already mad, but it was the Psychological Warfare Division who had the final say. A city of hallucinating Afghans would present interesting insights into the functioning of the Muslim brain. Would they see God? How would He appear to such a backward, tinted race? Which dark, primative recesses of the brain would light up with activity? What form would their regression take?

Perhaps the doktor could shine some light in this area. As he makes his rounds through the Presidential Palace, his pager beeps with Karzai's number. The doktor switches his pager to silent and puts it back in his pocket, an old doctor's trick. Nothing to worry about. If Karzai was seriously ill, the servants should call the Amerikan base hospital.

The doktor knows what Karzai wants. He also knows what the Amerikans want. What to do? In his black bag, the doktor has numerous medications. Medications for pain, medications for pleasure, and medications for unhappiness. Karzai wanted all.

The doktor enters his small apartment and closes the door behind him. He slips off his shoes and turns on the taps in the bath. The pager vibrates in his trouser pocket. Abesh! What was the hurry?

The doktor does what the doktor wants. Karzai needed to learn how to wait.

It takes you a lot of words to say nothing, you stupid Paki bugger.
;)

He can compress the most words into the smallest idea, of anyone I know. :o

I have to say it’s heart braking to see young Aussie soldiers who lost their lives in vein in Afghanistan, young wives without husbands and small kids without fathers.

athos wrote on Sep 25^th, 2010 at 3:52pm:

I have to say it’s heart braking to see young Aussie soldiers who lost their lives in vein in Afghanistan, young wives without husbands and small kids without fathers.

You are obvioiusly trying to suck the spirit out of the Australian soldiers, this is lower than a snake`s sandshoe and as worthless as a chocolate tea pot.  NOT going to work. >:(

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 25^th, 2010 at 7:35pm:

athos wrote on Sep 25th, 2010 at 3:52pm: I have to say it’s heart braking to see young Aussie soldiers who lost their lives in vein in Afghanistan, young wives without husbands and small kids without fathers. You are obvioiusly trying to suck the spirit out of the Australian soldiers, this is lower than a snake`s sandshoe and as worthless as a chocolate tea pot.  NOT going to work. >:(

So you think that Afghan war is worth fighting, if you say so.

Probably.
I guess you would change your mind if you are there.
It’s nice and exciting to advocate a war from your comfortable armchair.
So you think that Afghan war is worth fighting, if you say so.
Are you saying that the grief of those widows and their little kids is just pathetic screaming?
Shame on you.

athos wrote on Sep 25^th, 2010 at 7:44pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 25th, 2010 at 7:35pm: athos wrote on Sep 25th, 2010 at 3:52pm: I have to say it’s heart braking to see young Aussie soldiers who lost their lives in vein in Afghanistan, young wives without husbands and small kids without fathers. You are obvioiusly trying to suck the spirit out of the Australian soldiers, this is lower than a snake`s sandshoe and as worthless as a chocolate tea pot.  NOT going to work. >:( So you think that Afghan war is worth fighting, if you say so. Probably. I guess you would change your mind if you are there. It’s nice and exciting to advocate a war from your comfortable armchair. So you think that Afghan war is worth fighting, if you say so. Are you saying that the grief of those widows and their little kids is just pathetic screaming? Shame on you.

I didn`t say any of those things, YOU DID. >:(

Soren wrote on Sep 24^th, 2010 at 8:34pm:

It takes you a lot of words to say nothing, you stupid Paki bugger. ;)

Effende, in our faith, we believe in the futility of words to say anything.

You might consider converting. They'd probably make you a sultan.

corruption and mayhem