Before bagging other religions and burning other Bibles, Christians should read their own Bible properly and objectively to see how much religious intolerance that their own Bible promotes. For example:-


Quote:

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Kill Followers of Other Religions.    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT) Kill False Prophets    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT) Kill Followers of Other Religions    While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women.  These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab.  Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people.  The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel."  So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.  Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle.  When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly.  Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach.  So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died.  (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 4:38pm:

Before bagging other religions and burning other Bibles, Christians should read their own Bible properly and objectively to see how much religious intolerance that their own Bible promotes. For example:- Quote: Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Kill Followers of Other Religions.    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT) Kill False Prophets    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT) Kill Followers of Other Religions    While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women.  These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab.  Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people.  The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel."  So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.  Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle.  When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly.  Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach.  So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died.  (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

LOL

If Christians started getting medieval again, I'm sure people would be lining up to burn Bibles also. It is not the contents of the Koran that people object to, but what actual Muslims like Abu say they believe in. The Koran is a symbol of that, so it is not an over-reaction to burn it, seeing as it would be inappropriate to burn Muslims.

Quote:

The Koran is a symbol of that, so it is not an over-reaction to burn it

But it is rather sad and pathetic - moronic even.

We should burn all religious book including the Bible.
Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy

Bobby. wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:09pm:

We should burn all religious book including the Bible. Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy

Yes what a better place the world will be when common sense finally prevails ;)

Bobby. wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:09pm:

We should burn all religious book including the Bible. Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy

That inherent even-handedeness, to your great surprise and discomforty (I hope), is a very Christian trait in you.

You are more Christian in your values and outlook than you realise. That you are completely unaware of if it is called a paradox.

Quote:

We should burn all religious book including the Bible.

Call for the burning of any book and you've probably missed your chance as a senior member of a certain central European country's one and only political party during the 1930s.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:09pm:

We should burn all religious book including the Bible.

And in the spirit of public service, throw you on top of the bonfire, as the cherry.

A bonfire with a (ding)bat on top. You bring the Torquemada outa me.

For those of you who would claim yourselves Christians, but do not know what you believe in because your book of faith is too boring... try this web site. Concise and with pictures. It's friggin' hilarious.

Soren wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:22pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:09pm: We should burn all religious book including the Bible. And in the spirit of public service, throw you on top of the bonfire, as the cherry. A bonfire with a (ding)bat on top. You bring the Torquemada outa me.

Well that preacher in the USA has the right idea with the Koran
but he forgot about his own Bible.
Throw that on the fire as well.
All religion is nonsense.

People who have claimed to have read religious texts, haven't. There's no better exercise in boredom than sitting down and reading one.

Sappho wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:24pm:

For those of you who would claim yourselves Christians, but do not know what you believe in because your book of faith is too boring... try this web site. Concise and with pictures. It's friggin' hilarious.

Watch it, lest your house is burnt down and all your family is massacred in rightous anger.

Can Christians do that? Or is that reserved for the 'other'?

Soren wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:37pm:

Sappho wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:24pm: For those of you who would claim yourselves Christians, but do not know what you believe in because your book of faith is too boring... try this web site. Concise and with pictures. It's friggin' hilarious. Watch it, lest your house is burnt down and all your family is massacred in rightous anger. Can Christians do that? Or is that reserved for the 'other'?

In my case, I think that the punishment is the reserve of God.

In fact, it is definitely reserved for God. Christians have to be nice to me because I am flesh and blood. If by 'other' you mean the evil spirits, then yes Christians can do their damnedest... pardon the pun.

Sappho wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:37pm: Sappho wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:24pm: For those of you who would claim yourselves Christians, but do not know what you believe in because your book of faith is too boring... try this web site. Concise and with pictures. It's friggin' hilarious. Watch it, lest your house is burnt down and all your family is massacred in rightous anger. Can Christians do that? Or is that reserved for the 'other'? In my case, I think that the punishment is the reserve of God. In fact, it is definitely reserved for God. Christians have to be nice to me.

Do you know who I am???!!!???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muaAZE0M3LU

Life_goes_on wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 7:45pm:

Quote: The Koran is a symbol of that, so it is not an over-reaction to burn it But it is rather sad and pathetic - moronic even.

I can see that. I have never been tempted to protest with fire. But it can be a powerful medium. There's nothing like a fire.

The Muhammed cartoons were lame, in and of themselves. But they were also a grand gesture of defiance.

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:35pm:

People who have claimed to have read religious texts, haven't. There's no better exercise in boredom than sitting down and reading one.

I have read the entire Bible, front to back.

Religion can only be cleansed with fire.

Burn all religious books in a massive bonfire.

Everyone needs to see the movie:
The Pit and the Pendulum.

You want to see the Bible burned??

Religion can only be cleansed with fire.

Burn all religious books in a massive bonfire

================================================

What a load of nonsense.

BOOK BURNING WAS FAVOURITE PASTIME OF THE NAZIS, IF YOU EVER READ THE HISTORY OF NAZI GERMANY.

Is that the path you wanna go, Bobby ??

Hi Lisa & Stryder,
Religion is the main cause of all wars.
We need a new age to begin - one of enlightenment
not one of bronze age myths & superstition -
devils & angels.
Lets burn the old & start afresh.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 11:38pm:

Religion is the main cause of all wars.

I'm pretty sure we would do pretty well to kill each other, regardless of our adherence to religion (or indeed it's existence at all).

We need a new age to begin - one of enlightenment ..

- Bobby

... and you believe this will be achieved by burning books.

Interesting.

We need a new age to begin - one of enlightenment ..

- Bobby

... and you believe this will be achieved by burning books.

Interesting.

================================================

Funny enough, thats what the NAZIS believed exactly, THE NAZIS BURNED BOOKED WRITTEN BY PEOPLE OF JUDIASM,

ONE RELIGION MIND YOU. thats the Nazis.

Bobby wants to bold and go beyond the NAZIS and burn every book of RELIGION. not only JUDIASM

FUNNY,  ;D ;D ;D

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 11:51pm:

We need a new age to begin - one of enlightenment .. - Bobby ... and you believe this will be achieved by burning books. Interesting.

Probably burning books would not do it -
it would  start another war over religion
but it's a wishful fantasy.
Am I allowed to dream of enlightenment & a new age?

Bobby, Im sorry to say you sound like a Nazi version of ATHEISM.

Whats going on mate,  ;D ;D

Your not like this.

THIS STUFF WAS PRACTISED BY THE NAZIS, your not seriously like that. ????

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:00am:

Bobby, Im sorry to say you sound like a Nazi version of ATHEISM. Whats going on mate,  ;D ;D Your not like this. THIS STUFF WAS PRACTISED BY THE NAZIS, your not seriously like that. ????

It's just a fantasy that the world could be cleansed with fire. ;D

Let me remind you Bobby, THE BIGGEST HUMAN BUTCHER IN HISTORY, STALIN who is a darling with some of the leftists, who butchered countless millions of PEOPLE, WAS AN ATHEIST HIMSELF, NOT A MAN OF RELIGION.

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:04am:

Let me remind you Bobby, THE BIGGEST HUMAN BUTCHER IN HISTORY, STALIN who is a darling with some of the leftists, who butchered countless millions of PEOPLE, WAS AN ATHEIST HIMSELF, NOT A MAN OF RELIGION.

And Hitler was a Catholic who said:

Quote:

I am finishing God's work

Hitler was born a catholic, but had no commitment to the catholic religion at all when he was becoming Nazi leader only for show to the catholic state of bavaria where the NAZI PARTY WAS BORN. in fact he became more dismissive of religion because they became incompatable with Nazi belief, especially its racial views

I know this, Nazi germany was my best subject back from school long ago

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:15am:

Hitler was born a catholic, but had no commitment to the catholic religion at all when he was becoming Nazi leader only for show to the catholic state of bavaria where the NAZI PARTY WAS BORN. in fact he became more dismissive of religion because they became incompatable with Nazi belief, especially its racial views I know this, Nazi germany was my best subject back from school long ago

Hitler greets the Pope.

---

Hey BOBBY

I KNOW SOME OTHER ATHEIST BUTCHERS AS WELL.

CHAIRMAN MAO AND POL POT,  ;D ;D ;D.

Maybe if you wanna BAN RELIGION maybe you should BAN ATHEISM as well since it has caused mass deaths as well,


BAN EVERY BELIEF INCLUDING ATHEISM, because its proven to be destructive too,

IS THAT FAIR BOBBY, ????  ;D ;D ;D

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:20am:

Hey BOBBY I KNOW SOME OTHER ATHEIST BUTCHERS AS WELL. CHAIRMAN MAO AND POL POT,  ;D ;D ;D. Maybe if you wanna BAN RELIGION maybe you should BAN ATHEISM as well since it has caused mass deaths as well, BAN EVERY BELIEF INCLUDING ATHEISM, because its proven to be destructive too, IS THAT FAIR BOBBY, ????  ;D ;D ;D

Considering that we are in a religious war right now your
comments are hollow.
We have the west fighting radical Islam.

Bobby, HITLER HAD NO COMMITMENT TO CATHOLISM EXCEPT FOR SHOW,

and that photo proves it, Hitler was photographed many times with german bishops and cardinals, BUT IT WAS ONLY FOR SHOW IN ORDER TO GET SUPPORT FOR THE NAZIS FROM GERMANYS CATHOLIC SOUTH IN BAVARIA.

other than that in Hitlers MEIN KAMPF, he dismissed religion, including catholism in which he was born into.

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:24am:

Bobby, HITLER HAD NO COMMITMENT TO CATHOLISM EXCEPT FOR SHOW, and that photo proves it, Hitler was photographed many times with german bishops and cardinals, BUT IT WAS ONLY FOR SHOW IN ORDER TO GET SUPPORT FOR THE NAZIS FROM GERMANYS CATHOLIC SOUTH IN BAVARIA. other than that in Hitlers MEIN KAMPF, he dismissed religion, including catholism in which he was born into.

Crap - the swastika was the sign above the Catholic
school that he went to.
The swastika is the sign of the cross upon which Jesus was sacrificed.
You don't know anything about this subject.

Considering that we are in a religious war right now your
comments are hollow.
We have the west fighting radical Islam

================================================

Your posts DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE WHAT SO EVER, Its extremely flawed given you LIKE BOOK BURNING.

And you DARE to say my posts are hollow,  ;D ;D ;D

TAKE A GOOD READ AT WHAT YOU POSTS BOBBY,

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:28am:

Considering that we are in a religious war right now your comments are hollow. We have the west fighting radical Islam ================================================ Your posts DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE WHAT SO EVER, Its extremely flawed given you LIKE BOOK BURNING. And you DARE to say my posts are hollow,  ;D ;D ;D TAKE A GOOD READ AT WHAT YOU POSTS BOBBY,

They are hollow.
You completely ignore that the whole world is in the middle
of a religious war & yet somehow you think
religion is a cause for good.

When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and "those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation." (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: "As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work."[49]

The swastika was also understood as "the symbol of the creating, acting life" (das Symbol des schaffenden, wirkenden Lebens) and as "race emblem of Germanism" (Rasseabzeichen des Germanentums).[50]

The use of the swastika was associated by Nazi theorists with their conjecture of Aryan cultural descent of the German people. Following the Nordicist version of the Aryan invasion theory, the Nazis claimed that the early Aryans of India, from whose Vedic tradition the swastika sprang, were the prototypical white invaders. The concept of racial purity was an ideology central to Nazism
by WIKI

===============================================

Tell me there or any other reference to the history of the nazi symbol of the swastika THAT IT WAS A REVAMPED CATHOLIC SYMBOL, Bobby ??????????????????

Probably burning books would not do it -
it would  start another war over religion
but it's a wishful fantasy.
Am I allowed to dream of enlightenment & a new age?

- Bobby

That's better.

Stryder.

Quote:

Tell me there or any other reference to the history of the nazi symbol of the swastika THAT IT WAS A REVAMPED CATHOLIC SYMBOL, Bobby ??????????????????

I saw it in a doco once on TV.
The compare showed a photo of the Catholic school gate
where Hitler had his early education.
There it was - right above the gate.
A Catholic symbol for all the kids to see & admire.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:45am:

Probably burning books would not do it - it would  start another war over religion but it's a wishful fantasy. Am I allowed to dream of enlightenment & a new age? - Bobby That's better.

Thanks Lisa - you're a sweety.

Christians haven't read their own Bible

================================================

I take it an atheist like you Bobby DONT READ HISTORY BOOKS.

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:49am:

Christians haven't read their own Bible ================================================ I take it an atheist like you Bobby DONT READ HISTORY BOOKS.

I am not an atheist.
I just don't believe in fairy stories.
I would call myself a scientist.

I saw it in a doco once on TV.
The compare showed a photo of the Catholic school gate
where Hitler had his early education.
There it was - right above the gate.
A Catholic symbol for all the kids to see & admire

================================================

Thats crap Bobby, and I KNOW IT.

In the history of the Nazi symbol of the swastika, there is NO REFERENCE TO IT WHAT SO EVER being a revamped christian or catholic symbol.

Come on bobby, I DARE YOU TO GOOGLE AND FIND ME SOME REFERENCE OF IT BEING A TWISTED CHRISTIAN SYMBOL.

I am not an atheist.
I just don't believe in fairy stories.
I would call myself a scientist.

================================================

;D ;D ;D A SCIENTIST

Oh boy Bobby THATS IT I CANT TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY ANYMORE,  

YOU ARE IN THE TWIGHT ZONE.

dododododododo

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:53am:

I saw it in a doco once on TV. The compare showed a photo of the Catholic school gate where Hitler had his early education. There it was - right above the gate. A Catholic symbol for all the kids to see & admire ================================================ Thats crap Bobby, and I KNOW IT. In the history of the Nazi symbol of the swastika, there is NO REFERENCE TO IT WHAT SO EVER being a revamped christian or catholic symbol. Come on bobby, I DARE YOU TO GOOGLE AND FIND ME SOME REFERENCE OF IT BEING A TWISTED CHRISTIAN SYMBOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Quote:

In Christianity, the swastika is used as a hooked version of the Christian Cross, the symbol of Christ's victory over death. Some Christian churches built in the Romanesque and Gothic eras are decorated with swastikas, carrying over earlier Roman designs. Swastikas are prominently displayed in a mosaic in the St. Sophia church of Kiev, Ukraine dating from the 12th century. They also appear as a repeating ornamental motif on a tomb in the Basilica of St. Ambrose in Milan. A proposed direct link between it and a swastika floor mosaic in the Cathedral of Our Lady of Amiens, which was built on top of a pagan site at Amiens, France in the 13th century, is considered unlikely. The stole worn by a priest in the 1445 painting of the Seven Sacraments by Roger van der Weyden presents the swastika form simply as one way of depicting the cross. Swastikas also appear on the vestments on the effigy of Bishop William Edington (d. 1366) in Winchester Cathedral.

YOU ARE IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE.

dododododododo

Stryder.
Stick that in your pipe & smoke it.
It took me 5 seconds to google it.  ;D

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:56am:

I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in fairy stories. I would call myself a scientist. ================================================ ;D ;D ;D A SCIENTIST Oh boy Bobby THATS IT I CANT TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY ANYMORE,   YOU ARE IN THE TWIGHT ZONE. dododododododo

Six years of tertiary education in science & the fact I walk
around in a white lab coat all day in my job performing
scientific experiments would back up my claim.

Stick that in your pipe & have another smoke.

In Christianity, the swastika is used as a hooked version of the Christian Cross, the symbol of Christ's victory over death. Some Christian churches built in the Romanesque and Gothic eras are decorated with swastikas, carrying over earlier Roman designs. Swastikas are prominently displayed in a mosaic in the St. Sophia church of Kiev, Ukraine dating from the 12th century. They also appear as a repeating ornamental motif on a tomb in the Basilica of St. Ambrose in Milan. A proposed direct link between it and a swastika floor mosaic in the Cathedral of Our Lady of Amiens, which was built on top of a pagan site at Amiens, France in the 13th century, is considered unlikely. The stole worn by a priest in the 1445 painting of the Seven Sacraments by Roger van der Weyden presents the swastika form simply as one way of depicting the cross. Swastikas also appear on the vestments on the effigy of Bishop William Edington (d. 1366) in Winchester Cathedral

================================================

;D ;D ;D Bobby you are getting worse.


WHERES THE REFERENCE TO NAZI GERMANY IN THERE ?????

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 1:01am:

In Christianity, the swastika is used as a hooked version of the Christian Cross, the symbol of Christ's victory over death. Some Christian churches built in the Romanesque and Gothic eras are decorated with swastikas, carrying over earlier Roman designs. Swastikas are prominently displayed in a mosaic in the St. Sophia church of Kiev, Ukraine dating from the 12th century. They also appear as a repeating ornamental motif on a tomb in the Basilica of St. Ambrose in Milan. A proposed direct link between it and a swastika floor mosaic in the Cathedral of Our Lady of Amiens, which was built on top of a pagan site at Amiens, France in the 13th century, is considered unlikely. The stole worn by a priest in the 1445 painting of the Seven Sacraments by Roger van der Weyden presents the swastika form simply as one way of depicting the cross. Swastikas also appear on the vestments on the effigy of Bishop William Edington (d. 1366) in Winchester Cathedral ================================================ ;D ;D ;D Bobby you are getting worse. WHERES THE REFERENCE TO NAZI GERMANY IN THERE ?????

Come on Stryder - you lost the argument.
It's time for me to retire to bed
having done some good for the world.
Goodnight all.

Tertiary education  ;D ;D ;D

Looks like your teachers didnt do a good job,

LET ME HELP YOU BOBBY

GOOGLE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NAZI SYMBOL OF THE SWASTIKA, OK

NOT JUST THE HISTORY OF SWASTIKA WHICH WILL TAKE YOU BACK TO ANCIENT INDIA.  ;D ;D ;D

Come on Stryder - you lost the argument

===============================================

;D ;D ;D WHAT

You cant even produce a proper debate or argument for starters.

WHAT EVER TERIARY EDUCATION YOU GOT,

Is a real joke  ;D

Yep Bobby retire to bed, SERIOUSLY

i THINK IM DONE EMBARRASING YOU HERE

The arguments for Christianity don`t persuade me to join them.  However, the  arguments AGAINST Christianity are invariably, no more convincing than any other navel gazing dribble.

The basic code of common decency, and dignity that  Christianity calls for is far better than the hollowness of self adoration practiced by the anti Christs.  In a pampered society such as ours, the most feeble minded people will always indulge themselves.

Christianity, for all the faults of it`s practitioners, is the historical instigator and nurturer of the freedoms we enjoy today.  To tissy fit over Christianity not allowing onne to "marry"one`s bum buddy, or whatever other trivial reason, is quite pathetic, and small minded in the overall scheme of things.

hope this helps

Bobby. wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:24am:

stryder wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 12:20am: Hey BOBBY I KNOW SOME OTHER ATHEIST BUTCHERS AS WELL. CHAIRMAN MAO AND POL POT,  ;D ;D ;D. Maybe if you wanna BAN RELIGION maybe you should BAN ATHEISM as well since it has caused mass deaths as well, BAN EVERY BELIEF INCLUDING ATHEISM, because its proven to be destructive too, IS THAT FAIR BOBBY, ????  ;D ;D ;D Considering that we are in a religious war right now your comments are hollow. We have the west fighting radical Islam.

How about we just ban illogical arguments?


Quote:

Crap - the swastika was the sign above the Catholic school that he went to. The swastika is the sign of the cross upon which Jesus was sacrificed. You don't know anything about this subject.

Hitler was well known for his effective use of symbology and propaganda. Seems it is still effective.


Quote:

I saw it in a doco once on TV. The compare showed a photo of the Catholic school gate where Hitler had his early education. There it was - right above the gate. A Catholic symbol for all the kids to see & admire.

Was it put there before or after Hitler attended?

The swastika was an ancient Egyptian symbol.  What would it prove if a nutter distorted the Christian cross anyway?

I shake my head in disbelief. Here we are, all connected to the net, with a wealth of quality sources to google and people still seek to argue from ignorance assuming the snippet of data they hold is gold.

I am in awe of 'know all' ignorance peoples.

The swastika, which is its Indian name, and goes by many other names is a very old symbol used by many ancient and modern cultures.

Germany started using it in the mid 1800s in the lead up to their first unification. It was meant to reflect their Germanic link to Aryan roots. By the time Hitler started using it on his flag in 1920s it was already a symbol of German Nationalism and used widely by many organisations.  

Hitler is famous from taking a symbol of peace and unification and turning it into a symbol of hate and violence, at least within western cultures.

freediver wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 8:35am:

How about we just ban illogical arguments?

- but we get a good laugh from illogical arguments, and it helps certain people with their self esteem when they delude themselves into believing that they have won arguments, oblivious to that fact that most people are having a quiet snigger.  

Why would you deny an evangelical atheist (or Christian for that matter) the warm smug feeling that they are right and everybody else is wrong?

Sappho wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 9:44am:

I shake my head in disbelief. Here we are, all connected to the net, with a wealth of quality sources to google and people still seek to argue from ignorance assuming the snippet of data they hold is gold. I am in awe of 'know all' ignorance peoples. The swastika, which is its Indian name, and goes by many other names is a very old symbol used by many ancient and modern cultures. Germany started using it in the mid 1800s in the lead up to their first unification. It was meant to reflect their Germanic link to Aryan roots. By the time Hitler started using it on his flag in 1920s it was already a symbol of German Nationalism and used widely by many organisations.   Hitler is famous from taking a symbol of peace and unification and turning it into a symbol of hate and violence, at least within western cultures.

Yes, the swastika is still used by the Jains, a largely athiestic religion in India.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/JainismSymbol.PNG/90px-JainismSymbol.PNG

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 8:17am:

The arguments for Christianity don`t persuade me to join them.  However, the  arguments AGAINST Christianity are invariably, no more convincing than any other navel gazing dribble. The basic code of common decency, and dignity that  Christianity calls for is far better than the hollowness of self adoration practiced by the anti Christs.  In a pampered society such as ours, the most feeble minded people will always indulge themselves. Christianity, for all the faults of it`s practitioners, is the historical instigator and nurturer of the freedoms we enjoy today.  To tissy fit over Christianity not allowing onne to "marry"one`s bum buddy, or whatever other trivial reason, is quite pathetic, and small minded in the overall scheme of things. hope this helps

So why did they burn witches at the stake and torture people to death for over 600 years ?

stryder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:20am:

Hey BOBBY I KNOW SOME OTHER ATHEIST BUTCHERS AS WELL. CHAIRMAN MAO AND POL POT,  ;D ;D ;D. Maybe if you wanna BAN RELIGION maybe you should BAN ATHEISM as well since it has caused mass deaths as well, BAN EVERY BELIEF INCLUDING ATHEISM, because its proven to be destructive too, IS THAT FAIR BOBBY, ????  ;D ;D ;D

So if you like the same pizza as MAO then you must be a mass murderer as well.

Get lost stryder.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 11:15am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 8:17am: The arguments for Christianity don`t persuade me to join them.  However, the  arguments AGAINST Christianity are invariably, no more convincing than any other navel gazing dribble. The basic code of common decency, and dignity that  Christianity calls for is far better than the hollowness of self adoration practiced by the anti Christs.  In a pampered society such as ours, the most feeble minded people will always indulge themselves. Christianity, for all the faults of it`s practitioners, is the historical instigator and nurturer of the freedoms we enjoy today.  To tissy fit over Christianity not allowing onne to "marry"one`s bum buddy, or whatever other trivial reason, is quite pathetic, and small minded in the overall scheme of things. hope this helps So why did they burn witches at the stake and torture people to death for over 600 years ?

Because they thought the witches were casting spells on them?

When it had the power to do so, Christianity employed drastic methods to suppress the reappearance of pagan elements that threatened to undermine the Christian order. Twelfth-century crusaders killed up to a million people in the parts of southern France held by the Albigensian heresy, with Aquinas' fervent blessing. And Christian magistrates executed between 50,000 and 100,000 witches, that is, suspected adepts of the old pagan nature-religion. Ancient Israel, if we believe the Hebrew Bible, entered the Land of Canaan with precise instructions to exterminate several of the pagan peoples they encountered.

This seems harsh, but given the sad experience of the 20th century, one can only wish that Christian Europe had done a more thorough job of extirpating paganism. When it returned under the swastika, paganism perpetrated horrors unimagined by the bloodthirstiest crusader. The petty wars of tribe and clan, as Nicholas Wade informs us in Before the Dawn, killed two-fifths of the males of every generation during 40,000 years of prehistory. When men worship themselves rather than a universal God, they have no qualms about murdering their neighbors - and that includes the Athens of Socrates and Aristotle.

Just what is paganism? It is the social order that underlies idolatry: the primacy of the animal ties of ancestry, in which the family is a small clan, the clan is a small tribe, and the tribe is a small nation. Pagans worship their own blood and soil at the altar of their nation. The attraction of self-worship is so strong that ancient Israel again and again fell back into pagan practices, while the self-styled "new Israel" of the Church was gutted in its home continent of Europe. America, a new people composed of people who abandoned ethnic allegiance, survived as the last home of Christianity in the industrial world.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LH24Ak01.html

Soren wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:17pm:

When it had the power to do so, Christianity employed drastic methods to suppress the reappearance of pagan elements that threatened to undermine the Christian order. Twelfth-century crusaders killed up to a million people in the parts of southern France held by the Albigensian heresy, with Aquinas' fervent blessing. And Christian magistrates executed between 50,000 and 100,000 witches, that is, suspected adepts of the old pagan nature-religion. Ancient Israel, if we believe the Hebrew Bible, entered the Land of Canaan with precise instructions to exterminate several of the pagan peoples they encountered. This seems harsh, but given the sad experience of the 20th century, one can only wish that Christian Europe had done a more thorough job of extirpating paganism. When it returned under the swastika, paganism perpetrated horrors unimagined by the bloodthirstiest crusader. The petty wars of tribe and clan, as Nicholas Wade informs us in Before the Dawn, killed two-fifths of the males of every generation during 40,000 years of prehistory. When men worship themselves rather than a universal God, they have no qualms about murdering their neighbors - and that includes the Athens of Socrates and Aristotle. Just what is paganism? It is the social order that underlies idolatry: the primacy of the animal ties of ancestry, in which the family is a small clan, the clan is a small tribe, and the tribe is a small nation. Pagans worship their own blood and soil at the altar of their nation. The attraction of self-worship is so strong that ancient Israel again and again fell back into pagan practices, while the self-styled "new Israel" of the Church was gutted in its home continent of Europe. America, a new people composed of people who abandoned ethnic allegiance, survived as the last home of Christianity in the industrial world. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LH24Ak01.html

Wow, so nutjob Christians are just like nutjob Muslims. It's good to have this information from a believer.

freediver wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 11:40am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 11:15am: aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 8:17am: The arguments for Christianity don`t persuade me to join them.  However, the  arguments AGAINST Christianity are invariably, no more convincing than any other navel gazing dribble. The basic code of common decency, and dignity that  Christianity calls for is far better than the hollowness of self adoration practiced by the anti Christs.  In a pampered society such as ours, the most feeble minded people will always indulge themselves. Christianity, for all the faults of it`s practitioners, is the historical instigator and nurturer of the freedoms we enjoy today.  To tissy fit over Christianity not allowing onne to "marry"one`s bum buddy, or whatever other trivial reason, is quite pathetic, and small minded in the overall scheme of things. hope this helps So why did they burn witches at the stake and torture people to death for over 600 years ? Because they thought the witches were casting spells on them?

Because they wanted land.

So the witches were the plantation owners of the time?

Soren wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 8:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:09pm: We should burn all religious book including the Bible. Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy That inherent even-handedeness, to your great surprise and discomforty (I hope), is a very Christian trait in you. You are more Christian in your values and outlook than you realise. That you are completely unaware of if it is called a paradox.

I'd say that inherent even-handedness pre-exists Christianity by a long shot. And you last post suggests that it railed against it in the extreme.

freediver wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:56pm:

So the witches were the plantation owners of the time?

Just adding to your comment not contradicting it.

Christendom rarely did anything without a profit or power motive.

locutius wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:55pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 12:17pm: When it had the power to do so, Christianity employed drastic methods to suppress the reappearance of pagan elements that threatened to undermine the Christian order. Twelfth-century crusaders killed up to a million people in the parts of southern France held by the Albigensian heresy, with Aquinas' fervent blessing. And Christian magistrates executed between 50,000 and 100,000 witches, that is, suspected adepts of the old pagan nature-religion. Ancient Israel, if we believe the Hebrew Bible, entered the Land of Canaan with precise instructions to exterminate several of the pagan peoples they encountered. This seems harsh, but given the sad experience of the 20th century, one can only wish that Christian Europe had done a more thorough job of extirpating paganism. When it returned under the swastika, paganism perpetrated horrors unimagined by the bloodthirstiest crusader. The petty wars of tribe and clan, as Nicholas Wade informs us in Before the Dawn, killed two-fifths of the males of every generation during 40,000 years of prehistory. When men worship themselves rather than a universal God, they have no qualms about murdering their neighbors - and that includes the Athens of Socrates and Aristotle. Just what is paganism? It is the social order that underlies idolatry: the primacy of the animal ties of ancestry, in which the family is a small clan, the clan is a small tribe, and the tribe is a small nation. Pagans worship their own blood and soil at the altar of their nation. The attraction of self-worship is so strong that ancient Israel again and again fell back into pagan practices, while the self-styled "new Israel" of the Church was gutted in its home continent of Europe. America, a new people composed of people who abandoned ethnic allegiance, survived as the last home of Christianity in the industrial world. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LH24Ak01.html Wow, so nutjob Christians are just like nutjob Muslims. It's good to have this information from a believer.

If you had looked at the whole article you would have seen that it was written by jew.




locutius wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 1:03pm:

I'd say that inherent even-handedness pre-exists Christianity by a long shot. And you last post suggests that it railed against it in the extreme.

You could say anything but there is no basis for what you'd say. The article I referred to shows that they railed against paganism, not even-handedness. If anything, it shows they railed against all forms of paganism - Islam, heretics, witches - even-handedly. Very Anglican in their even-handedness, in fact.

locutius wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 1:08pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 12:56pm: So the witches were the plantation owners of the time? Just adding to your comment not contradicting it. Christendom rarely did anything without a profit or power motive.

Which "....dom" or "...ism" has ever been different? You can say the same about secularism, even hippy-dom.

Soren wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 12:17pm:

This seems harsh, but given the sad experience of the 20th century, one can only wish that Christian Europe had done a more thorough job of extirpating paganism. When it returned under the swastika, paganism perpetrated horrors unimagined by the bloodthirstiest crusader. ]

;D ;D ;D ;D

It never ceases to amaze me how much scholarly elucidation we get from this board and some of the regular contributors here.  Relax - I'm not talking about you Soren.

You know, It didn't occur to me for one moment that Adolf Hitler actually visited Obersalzberg so that he could dance around trees in the altogether and make offerings to the Earth Goddess along with Eva Braun. We learn something new every day.  

What a lot of apologist rot. Adolf Hitler was a Catholic. OK, some Catholics make the argument that he was really an Atheist because they don't want to associate with him these days.  Maybe some will argue that he was really a Jew or a Buddhist (a Muslim maybe?) - anything  but a Christian.

I mean, it's  good enough for most people that when somebody is baptised as a Catholic and confirmed as a Catholic and never excommunicated, then they are probably Catholic.  If Hitler had ever filled in a census form, I'm sure he would have described his religion as Roman Catholic, and he would have been registered for all posterity as a Left Footer.  It would have even been enough to convince the ABS had he lived in Australia.

So what's the basis of this argument - the Pagan one? The fact that Hitler liked Wagner and all these Valkyries and other flighty creatures from Germanic mythology?

Well I don't mind Wagner myself.  ::) Come to thing about it, Old Bill Shakespeare had a bit of a thing for Roman mythology, but was he a pagan? - oh no! He might hathaway from time to time with Anne but not certainly not enough for retrospective ex-communication.

Totally piss weak. It reminds me of some of the apologist arguments that Abu makes for Osama Bin Laden.  

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 11:15am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 8:17am: The arguments for Christianity don`t persuade me to join them.  However, the  arguments AGAINST Christianity are invariably, no more convincing than any other navel gazing dribble. The basic code of common decency, and dignity that  Christianity calls for is far better than the hollowness of self adoration practiced by the anti Christs.  In a pampered society such as ours, the most feeble minded people will always indulge themselves. Christianity, for all the faults of it`s practitioners, is the historical instigator and nurturer of the freedoms we enjoy today.  To tissy fit over Christianity not allowing onne to "marry"one`s bum buddy, or whatever other trivial reason, is quite pathetic, and small minded in the overall scheme of things. hope this helps So why did they burn witches at the stake and torture people to death for over 600 years ?

I think they may have been missing a couple of Christian points there, just as you are obviously missing the point here.  When we consider that the people you refer to were totally uneducated, and had an average life expectancy of about 12 yrs, it`s not surprisinng that they were a bit "quaint".

What`s your excuse?
;D

locutius wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 1:03pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:16pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:09pm: We should burn all religious book including the Bible. Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy That inherent even-handedeness, to your great surprise and discomforty (I hope), is a very Christian trait in you. You are more Christian in your values and outlook than you realise. That you are completely unaware of if it is called a paradox. I'd say that inherent even-handedness pre-exists Christianity by a long shot. And you last post suggests that it railed against it in the extreme.

I don`t think so.

Quote: Bobby

Quote:

I saw it in a doco once on TV. The compare showed a photo of the Catholic school gate where Hitler had his early education. There it was - right above the gate. A Catholic symbol for all the kids to see & admire.

Freediver

Quote:

Was it put there before or after Hitler attended?

The Swastika was there on the school gates at the time
Hitler attended that Catholic school.
As a good Catholic boy he used that symbol.

Nail.

Quote:

So why did they burn witches at the stake and torture people to death for over 600 years ?

They had lots of good reasons which all came from the Bible.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 1:44pm:

locutius wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 1:03pm: Soren wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:16pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:09pm: We should burn all religious book including the Bible. Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy That inherent even-handedeness, to your great surprise and discomforty (I hope), is a very Christian trait in you. You are more Christian in your values and outlook than you realise. That you are completely unaware of if it is called a paradox. I'd say that inherent even-handedness pre-exists Christianity by a long shot. And you last post suggests that it railed against it in the extreme. I don`t think so.

Yes it does.....It's originally from one of the Greek philosphers...
But that's no surprise.....most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well....

Are we all satisfied now that humans will rally violently for a cause be it in the name of a theology, philosophy or plain ol' human nature? You should be. There is enough evidence in this thread and others for you to draw this very sensible and factual conclusion.

As dear ol' Time would say... it is the inherent fear of the 'other' and their potential influence, given enough slack, as well as our need for power over our own and the 'other', that drives us.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 3:58pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 1:44pm: locutius wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 1:03pm: Soren wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:16pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:09pm: We should burn all religious book including the Bible. Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy That inherent even-handedeness, to your great surprise and discomforty (I hope), is a very Christian trait in you. You are more Christian in your values and outlook than you realise. That you are completely unaware of if it is called a paradox. I'd say that inherent even-handedness pre-exists Christianity by a long shot. And you last post suggests that it railed against it in the extreme. I don`t think so. Yes it does.....It's originally from one of the Greek philosphers... But that's no surprise.....most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well....

No linear connection though,  so no relevance.

Quote:

most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well

Isn't that just a reflection of who had the most history books written about them?

No!

So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards?

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 5:58pm:

So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards?

Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.

Our Western, humanitarian system originated in the ethics of Christianity.  There was more than enough crime comitted against humanity in the name of Christianity, and we are constantly reminded of that fact.  We don`t often hear about the positive aspects of our heritage though.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 6:03pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm: So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards? Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.

Why not?

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 6:03pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm: So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards? Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.

So we should not teach children about moral values in a time of war? Isn't it then that they are most important?


Quote:

Our Western, humanitarian system originated in the ethics of Christianity.  There was more than enough crime comitted against humanity in the name of Christianity, and we are constantly reminded of that fact.  We don`t often hear about the positive aspects of our heritage though.

It is always interesting to watch extremist atheists blame religion for everything, proclaim a completely irreligious spring for all morals, then demand they get their hands on other people's children so they can re-educate them and stamp out all opposing doctrines.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 6:03pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm: So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards? Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.

Morals are something a parent should be teaching their child at home...

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 4:38pm:

Before bagging other religions and burning other Bibles, Christians should read their own Bible properly and objectively to see how much religious intolerance that their own Bible promotes. For example:-

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
- - YOU ARE MAKING A FALSE AND ERRONEOUS CONCLUSION FROM THAT BIBLE TEXT

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
- - YOU ARE MAKING A FALSE AND ERRONEOUS CONCLUSION FROM THAT BIBLE TEXT

Kill False Prophets
- - TRUE

+++
thelastnail,

The inference, the implication you make [in the OT verses you quoted], would lead a reasonable person to believe that the God of Israel was commanding the ancient Hebrews to be xenophobes, and / or homicidal maniacs.
My determination is that, if what you knew about the God of Israel and OT law was dynamite, it wouldn't blow your brains out.

Some PROOF, from bible texts...
What the Hebrew Torah [law] said about strangers ['unbelievers']...

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Leviticus 25:47-49 [these verses clearly speak of Hebrews becoming bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...


Strangers ['unbelievers'] were permitted to live among the ancient Hebrews, but [because strangers were regarded as 'unclean' before God] strangers were not permitted to participate in many of the [regarded as holy] Hebrew religious ceremonies.

+++
Those laws and judgements [which you quoted] applied to the Hebrews people.
i.e.
A people who had entered into an agreement [covenant] with their God.

Hebrews could leave their nation, and be 'cut off' from the congregation, i.e. become gentiles.
But individual Hebrews were not permitted to be wilful law breakers, and at the same time live among the covenant people.
Even strangers were bound by many of the societal laws that the Hebrews had to follow.
And, stranger who lived among the Hebrews, and tried to entice any Hebrew to worship another God would be killed.
But strangers who lived among the Hebrews, were [clearly] not killed, because they themselves, were 'unbelievers'.


The obligations of the covenant people...

'...And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do....'
Exodus 19:5-8

Leviticus 20:22
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23  And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
24  But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.

Leviticus 20:26
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.



The God of Israel also commanded the Hebrew people to kill the inhabitants of the land [they were given, in possession, by their God].
To cleanse the land of their [the inhabitants] wickedness.
Harsh?
Yes.

Wicked?
The bible reveals that among other things, the original inhabitants of the land roasted their own children, in fires, in sacrifice to their false gods.

Leviticus 18:21
Leviticus 20:1-5
Deuteronomy 12:28-31

And as Jesus looked down from upon the Cross
unto his Jewish People who had sacrificed him
he said
"Wait till me little brother Hitler gets yas!!"

and so it was, 2000 years later
a little Jew (not really a Catholic ...but then again Nostrodamus was a French Jew - Catholic) called Hitler (who really did look like a Jew)
...got revenge.

Long ago, a little French Christian called Mohommed said "Kill my People!"
...what goes around  ::)
will come around ...maybe thats why France was testing Nukes in French-Polynesia  ;)


------------------------------------------------------------------

Catholic Priests: Tend to be celibate but wear really cool clothes.
Protestan Priests: Tend to root around a lot, but dress poorly.
Orthodox Priests: Wear cool clothes and root around.
Pagans: well they're the poor f'ukers who are buried in the ground (south) and hold up the others of the Cross (West,East,North).

...I'm so glad I'm Pagan ad live in a Culturally Backwards Australia ;)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Christianity - was a Religious 'reflection' or de-script-ion of Europe from out of the Middle-East.
Islam was a Religious 'reflection' of Africa, as is Israel of Asia.

You could almost say that each Holy Book was a 'licence' to conquer that area or state of being on behalf of the Middle-East. Also, it was aslo an expression of 'learning' from that part of the world. The Moslems learned much about the 'Land, Mathematics and even Slavery' from the Africans (and even the other Blacks - India).

Sadly, all the very Medically orientated Druids, Witches and others around Europe that 'lived' the true European way were supressed and corrupted by Religion that emerged out of the Middle-East. From then on, things became twisted and suddenly, Europe became 'Medi-Eval' rather than Medi-Good.
Nowadays, Europe is finding a sense of cultural vibrancy as Religion falls away back to the Middle-East like 3 blind mice falling down a drain.
Medicine seems to be the one Industry that is taking European nations forward in leaps and bounds as the World's best and progressive.

After the Moslems do to the French what the Germans did to the Jews, will the Italians put their faith in Religion in the face of a combined Israel/Islam wrath or will they go down like a soccer player and call a sickie for the Medical Industry to save em ?

Eventually there will be more 'positive' Religions that emerge from Namerica, Oceania and Samerica that set a better example of 'co-existence' and cohesion on behalf of the Middle-East than what the Religions of Africa, Europe and Asia did (because they went 'across' the grain in carpentry ;)).
But then again - Africa, Europe and Asia tend to have more Musical cohesion for that 'other' region of the world in the midst of the New Worlds. ;)

----------------------------------------------------------
As I said to all 'Christian' Nurses when working in the Hospitals
"Here - you can do the bloody paperwork!!!"
;D

freediver wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 10:37pm:

Quote: most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well Isn't that just a reflection of who had the most history books written about them?

No, not really.....The reason the Greek culture has had so many books written about it is because it was such a huge influence on European culture....

You must also bear in mind that the Greek Philosophers where influenced by other cultures as well.....It's just the Greeks were pretty much the first ones to write it down....

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 1:21am:

Leviticus 18:21 Leviticus 20:1-5 Deuteronomy 12:28-31

Welcome back Yadda ! ;D

- but you're wasting your time with these two. They are of the true faithful  :D

freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2010 at 5:28pm:

It is always interesting to watch extremist atheists blame religion for everything, proclaim a completely irreligious spring for all morals, then demand they get their hands on other people's children so they can re-educate them and stamp out all opposing doctrines.

Do you think that moderate (ie the majority of) atheists would let them?

Apart from the odd post on forums like this, is there really a viable movement to restrict freedom of religion in Australia?

I think Julia Gillard's stance on religion is about as far as it will go, and she's almost a defacto Christian.

However to some extent, I agree with your sentiments, and the growth of "in your face" extreme atheism is one of the reasons I no longer apply the label of atheist to myself. Instead, I embrace all religions for their cultural and heritage values.

Quote:

Before bagging other religions and burning other Bibles, Christians should read their own Bible properly and objectively to see how much religious intolerance that their own Bible promotes. For example:-

Actually lastnail, the bible seems to be very contradictory. In other parts it tells us to tolerate those with different beliefs.

This stands out as most contradictory to what the church teaches.

Romans 2:15-16


"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

Quote:

Do you think that moderate (ie the majority of) atheists would let them?

It's a new trend. Who knows how far it will go? They seem to have successfully re-written the history of science and religion to suit their agenda.

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:14pm:

Quote: Do you think that moderate (ie the majority of) atheists would let them? It's a new trend. Who knows how far it will go? They seem to have successfully re-written the history of science and religion to suit their agenda.

Certainly the Bible is no place to find morality doctrines.
Just look at the examples already quoted from the Old Testament.
Those old laws are already not accepted in any countries accept
as used by Muslims using Sharia law.
Remember that according to Jesus himself - the old laws still apply.

We have already thrown out the Old Laws - why not the rest of it?
I am sick of hearing about the Catholic church trying to teach morality
while their priests fiddle with little kids.

Remember that according to Jesus himself - the old laws still apply???


Huh???

The BIBLE clearly states that we are no longer under the old law ( of Moses ) but under the grace ( of Jesus ).

Kind regards

Lisa

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:48pm:

Remember that according to Jesus himself - the old laws still apply??? Huh???

Lisa - you need to read your Bible.
Matthew 5:

Quote:

[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:

Quote:

[17] And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

I am sick of hearing about the Catholic church trying to teach morality
while their priests fiddle with little kids.

- Bobby

Most religions have had issues in this regard .. unfortunately .. and many paedophiles are also Agnostic and Atheist.

It's a sickness and scourge which pervades society across all religious and other belief systems.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:57pm:

I am sick of hearing about the Catholic church trying to teach morality while their priests fiddle with little kids. - Bobby Most religions have had issues in this regard .. unfortunately .. and many paedophiles are also Agnostic and Atheist. It's a sickness and scourge which pervades society across all religious and other belief systems.

True - but did you read my post above about the Law?

Bobby .. I have read my Bible .. MANY times as it so happens.

Jesus ministry as reflected in the Holy Bible IS based on grace and love.

Having said this .. he wanted to contextualise his teachings (in effect he ensured that people didn't get the wrong idea and think they could take advantage of his grace and love).

If you're truly a Christian .. you are required to respect and live according to the code of conduct as expounded and demonstrated by Christ himself.

In effect this means you don't base your life on trying to get around the law of Moses ie the 10 Commandments and all that these laws imply .. and in doing so take advantage of Christ's love and grace.

Many supposed "Christians" unfortunately do think they can circumvent and thus undermine the intention underlying Jesus' ministry. This makes them despicable hypocrites in God's eyes. And the Bible clearly states that such hypocrites have a due reward <-- not a good one.

Double judgment awaits those paedophile priests Bobby. That's what the Bible stipulates in any event .. because they have NO EXCUSE ( they know the truth and deliberately misuse it).  

Ultimately .. the basic tenet of Christianity may be summed up as follows: Live as Christ did. He observed all laws .. Moses et al .. otherwise don't bother calling yourself a Christian .. coz you're fooling yourself and others if you think you are.

Hope this brief overview makes sense.

Yes Lisa,
I never thought that you & I would be doing Bible studies -
but here we are   :)

LOL Bobby!

Apologies for my somewhat simplistic overview.

These days I prefer to live a simple life or ...

KISS <-- Keep It Simple n Safe

Kind regards

Lisa

The point is actually that the Bible is quite contradictory.

e.g.
- my argument about the Law falls down when Jesus helps
a women who is about to be stoned to death &
also advises people about the Sabbath where you are  supposed to abstain from work.

The point is actually that the Bible is quite contradictory.

e.g.
- my argument about the Law falls down when Jesus helps
a women who is about to be stoned to death ...

- Bobby

Not at all .. Jesus intervened here .. because he was able to successfully expose the hypocrisy of those who wished to stone the woman for breaking the law of Moses (the would be "stoners" themselves had also broken the law in a similar regard if not worse than the would be "stonee").

If you read that section of the Bible carefully .. you will see that Jesus challenged these hypocrites ever so successfully .. so that not 1 person was left standing afterwards. As a result .. the woman's life was spared.

Cool stuff hey :)

Lisa.

Quote:

Cool stuff hey

One of the very great stories.
The Bible is full of wonderful stories which still
captivate people today.