Please outline your reasons for preferring one way or the other. 8-)

You're missing the "who gives a toss" option.

I'll vote for 'who gives a toss' with my 2nd preference going to 'no I'm not going to change the flag just for the sake of appeasing some whinging leftys'

Jaykaye_09 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:24pm:

You're missing the "who gives a toss" option.

Well, I would have thought your not contributing to this thread itself would be indicative of your not particularly caring either way?

8-)

mellie wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:29pm:

Jaykaye_09 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 1:24pm: You're missing the "who gives a toss" option. Well, I would have thought your not contributing to this thread itself would be indicative of your not particularly caring either way? 8-)

More than not caring, it's more indicative of my dislike of this issue taking precedence over anything, including what I may or may not have for lunch.

Actually, wait. No.

I just don't care.

... wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:28pm:

I'll vote for 'who gives a toss' with my 2nd preference going to 'no I'm not going to change the flag just for the sake of appeasing some whinging leftys'

I believe tradition and continuity is crucial for the overall moral of any given nation,(unless radical change is absolutely necessary).. particularly a nation as young as ours who's current fanciful left-wing government is enduring some sort of belated identity crisis.

Which Julia Gillard will declare our nation a republic, the new or the old one?

Or will a GG-appointed son-in-law Bill Shorten steal her lime-light once again?


8-)

Can any pro-republican actually out-line the advantages of our becoming a republic, and or changing our Australian flag?

Didn't think so.

8-)... Because this was always more about appealing to specific minority's and targeted focus-groups, than the act of becoming independent itself.

Bill Shorten wants to become Australia's first president, just ask him yourself, he makes no bones about disclosing this fact.

......Though in order to do so, he needed to ride the immigrant/minority vote home, because we wont become a republic without enough of what he requires voting for a republic at his next planned referendum.

His own father-in-law Michael Bryce (GG's hubby)..will be who judges/decides our next Australian flag, as he was last time when they had the temerity of holding an New Australian flag designer contest several months before the referendum, back in 1999 when a majority of Australians opposed it. Thank god!

This is why Labor have been sucking up to minority's, our Indigenous,Greens and immigrants ....  Sorry Bob Brown, there wont be room in a Catholic Bill Shortens administration for a gay senator, contrary to what's been promised by a 'current' Labor government.

Besides, you aren't family, and as we all know, republican administrations like to keep it in the family.


8-)...Think of Australia as though it were a giant Monopoly board game under a foreign-investor bank-rolled Commonwealth Labor government currently in the early transition phase of becoming a Bryce-Shorten (republic) administration.

New flag, new anthem, new style of governance, and possibly even a new name for our country which will only be appreciated by the ruling class, who have their fingers in all manner of things, allowing our nation to more than double it's population by 2050...as per schedule.

If you thought Gillard was serious about a "sustainable Australia", not a "big Australia", then ask yourself, where is her sustainable population policy which was supposed to be drafted by her 'newly appointed' pre-electoral Sustainable Populations minister Tony Burke?

Did it go to the same place as her independent climate forum/panel?

Another pie-crust promise, easily made, easily broken.

This is your ALP

::)...They promise the world, then give you an atlas once they've passed go and collected their $200.


Enjoy~!i

mellie wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 2:40pm:

Can any pro-republican actually out-line the advantages of our becoming a republic, and or changing our Australian flag? Didn't think so. 8-)... Because this was always more about appealing to specific minority's and targeted focus-groups, than the act of becoming independent itself. Bill Shorten wants to become Australia's first president, just ask him yourself, he makes no bones about disclosing this fact. ......Though in order to do so, he needed to ride the immigrant/minority vote home, because we wont become a republic without enough of what he requires voting for a republic at his next planned referendum. His own father-in-law Michael Bryce (GG's hubby)..will be who judges/decides our next Australian flag, as he was last time when they had the temerity of holding an New Australian flag designer contest several months before the referendum, back in 1999 when a majority of Australians opposed it. Thank god! This is why Labor have been sucking up to minority's, our Indigenous,Greens and immigrants ....  Sorry Bob Brown, there wont be room in a Catholic Bill Shortens administration for a gay senator, contrary to what's been promised by a 'current' Labor government. Besides, you aren't family, and as we all know, republican administrations like to keep it in the family. 8-)...Think of Australia as though it were a giant Monopoly board game under a foreign-investor bank-rolled Commonwealth Labor government currently in the early transition phase of becoming a Bryce-Shorten (republic) administration. New flag, new anthem, new style of governance, and possibly even a new name for our country which will only be appreciated by the ruling class, who have their fingers in all manner of things, allowing our nation to more than double it's population by 2050...as per schedule. If you thought Gillard was serious about a "sustainable Australia", not a "big Australia", then ask yourself, where is her sustainable population policy which was supposed to be drafted by her 'newly appointed' pre-electoral Sustainable Populations minister Tony Burke? Did it go to the same place as her independent climate forum/panel? Another pie-crust promise, easily made, easily broken. This is your ALP ::)...They promise the world, then give you an atlas once they've passed go and collected their $200. Enjoy~!

No, we should not become a republic!

Yes we should be a republic, our interests lie more with the US and Asia than England, an England giving preference to Europeans over Australians. Mostly symbolic, a clearly independent Australia will stand taller in SE Asia.

Without any ties to the UK crown we need to lose the union jack from our flag—something like the Canadian flag, nice and simple and clean design.

If we are to be a republic our President, who would have the same powers as the GG, has to be elected. No, this won’t be like the US, our Pres is not the head of the executive branch of govt.

I think the canadian flag is tacky.

A comparable australian one would have the boxing kangaroo on it...not a good look.

Nope keep it as it is.

I don't want Australia becoming involved with Asia other than on an arm's length basis for trading.

Asians are not our natural allies, they have little in common with us other than the coincidence of geography and we are more suited to the common cultural ties we have with Britain.

I am proud of being Australian, I am proud of being British.
Both completely in sync and long may that continue.

Pearson's pennant is a piece of sh*t. Canada isn't an imitatable model for anything.

Darwin wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 3:16pm:

Yes we should be a republic, our interests lie more with the US and Asia than England, an England giving preference to Europeans over Australians. Mostly symbolic, a clearly independent Australia will stand taller in SE Asia. Without any ties to the UK crown we need to lose the union jack from our flag—something like the Canadian flag, nice and simple and clean design. If we are to be a republic our President, who would have the same powers as the GG, has to be elected. No, this won’t be like the US, our Pres is not the head of the executive branch of govt.

Why is it only republicans and the flag haters believe that we are inextricably tied to 'mother england'?

We are an independant country and have been for some time now, you people need to come to that realisation, it'll make you happier in the long run.

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 3:27pm:

Darwin wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 3:16pm: Yes we should be a republic, our interests lie more with the US and Asia than England, an England giving preference to Europeans over Australians. Mostly symbolic, a clearly independent Australia will stand taller in SE Asia. Without any ties to the UK crown we need to lose the union jack from our flag—something like the Canadian flag, nice and simple and clean design. If we are to be a republic our President, who would have the same powers as the GG, has to be elected. No, this won’t be like the US, our Pres is not the head of the executive branch of govt. Why is it only republicans and the flag haters believe that we are inextricably tied to 'mother england'? We are an independant country and have been for some time now, you people need to come to that realisation, it'll make you happier in the long run.

Who on this site believes Hawaii is permanently tied to Great Britain?

See how absurd the flag argument is?

We need to retain our identity, before a Bryce_shorten administration makes anymore changes to our existing constitution and finally has it's way.

A Governor General Quentin Bryce should be replaced due to her being in breech of her own oath, and familial conflicts of interest.

We are effectively paying her to destabilise our patriotic country and install a republican Shorten-administration.

And what was her oath again?

....... 8-)...meanwhile, in the background, her son-in-law Bill Shorten sets about transforming us into a republic, as her designer husband Michael Bryce forms part of a judging panel to decide what will be our next Australian flag, minus the Union Jack.

It doesn't get much more disloyal and un-patriotic as this.

Oath of Office

I, QUENTIN ALICE LOUISE BRYCE, do swear that I will well and truly serve Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors according to law, in the office of Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia, and I will do right to all manner of people after the laws and usages of the Commonwealth of Australia, without fear or favour, affection or ill will. SO HELP ME GOD!

(Quentin Alice Louise Bryce)

Sworn, declared and subscribed by the abovenamed Quentin Alice Louise Bryce at Canberra in the Australian Capital Territory before me on 5 September 2008


(Robert French)
Chief Justice of Australia


http://www.gg.gov.au/content.php/page/id/16/title/oath-of-office

mellie wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 3:33pm:

We need to retain our identity, before a Bryce_shorten administration makes anymore changes to our existing constitution and finally has it's way. A Governor General Quentin Bryce should be replaced due to her being in breech of her own oath, and familial conflicts of interest. We are effectively paying her to destabilise our patriotic country and install a republican Shorten-administration. And what was her oath again? ....... 8-)...meanwhile, in the background, her son-in-law Bill Shorten sets about transforming us into a republic, as her designer husband Michael Bryce forms part of a judging panel to decide what will be our next Australian flag, minus the Union Jack. It doesn't get much more disloyal and un-patriotic as this.

If you swear allegiance, then that is exactly what you do, the treasonous moll.

mellie wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 3:33pm:

We need to retain our identity, before a Bryce_shorten administration makes anymore changes to our existing constitution and finally has it's way. A Governor General Quentin Bryce should be replaced due to her being in breech of her own oath, and familial conflicts of interest. We are effectively paying her to destabilise our patriotic country and install a republican Shorten-administration. And what was her oath again? ....... 8-)...meanwhile, in the background, her son-in-law Bill Shorten sets about transforming us into a republic, as her designer husband Michael Bryce forms part of a judging panel to decide what will be our next Australian flag, minus the Union Jack. It doesn't get much more disloyal and un-patriotic as this. Oath of Office I, QUENTIN ALICE LOUISE BRYCE, do swear that I will well and truly serve Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors according to law, in the office of Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia, and I will do right to all manner of people after the laws and usages of the Commonwealth of Australia, without fear or favour, affection or ill will. SO HELP ME GOD! (Quentin Alice Louise Bryce) Sworn, declared and subscribed by the abovenamed Quentin Alice Louise Bryce at Canberra in the Australian Capital Territory before me on 5 September 2008 (Robert French) Chief Justice of Australia http://www.gg.gov.au/content.php/page/id/16/title/oath-of-office

You do make a good point Mellington.  Is the penalty for treason still execution by firing squad?

mellie wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:18pm:

Please outline your reasons for preferring one way or the other. 8-)

You don't have a viable option for my preference.

My preference is for a federation , similar to the Swiss Federation, as opposed to a Republic. A monarchy is anachronistic and we have the situation where foreign heads of state pay their respects to our head of state - The Queen, or even worse, King Charles and Queen Camilla.  

My option is not to change the system much. We don't need an actual president. We have enough layers of government as it is.  All we need is a presiding council with a representative from each state with powers similar to the current GG.

On the subject of the flag, perhaps it's an opportunity to transition to a new flag that reflects the joint values of a Federation.

Perhaps we could retain the Southern Cross, and increase the size of the Federation star. It's a suggestion. Maybe we should have a competition.

I don't mind this one:

Boxing kangaroos are crass.

---

That looks shyte.

Looks like a fking African flag.

muso wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 3:51pm:

mellie wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 1:18pm: Please outline your reasons for preferring one way or the other. 8-) You don't have a viable option for my preference. My preference is for a federation , similar to the Swiss Federation, as opposed to a Republic. A monarchy is anachronistic and we have the situation where foreign heads of state pay their respects to our head of state - The Queen, or even worse, King Charles and Queen Camilla.   My option is not to change the system much. We don't need an actual president. We have enough layers of government as it is.  All we need is a presiding council with a representative from each state with powers similar to the current GG. On the subject of the flag, perhaps it's an opportunity to transition to a new flag that reflects the joint values of a Federation. Perhaps we could retain the Southern Cross, but superimpose the combined floral emblems of each of the States. It's a suggestion. Maybe we should have a competition. Boxing kangaroos are crass.

Muso, the reason I didn't provide you with this option, is because neither of our leading party's have.

As far as Labor are concerned, it's their way or no way.


They want their republic, this and made it a covert election issue when they sprung this on us just days before an election.

Much like their covert censorship issue, they don't feel at liberty to discuss either, despite Gillard herself advising reporters that censorship would be an election issue back in 2008 when they enquired about the mandatory filter then.

Another 'non-discussion' is the islamification of our country, and Labor immigrating those who they know will vote in favour of their political objectives.

Muslim immigration should have been an election also, though it wasn't.

We need to start talking about these issues, PC or not.

And no thanks Muso, I find the flag you put up rather, dreary and glum. It's design is OK...(for someone else's flag I mean)...I like the look of it, but it looks dull, dreary and weathered.

I like our existing Australian flag, and will fly this flag until the day I die.

... wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:28pm:

I'll vote for 'who gives a toss' with my 2nd preference going to 'no I'm not going to change the flag just for the sake of appeasing some whinging leftys'

Ditto

Are you aware socialist scum-bags have even referred to our Australian flag as being racist?

Julia Gillards radical-socialist roots are quite apparent in her politics I think.

http://www.sa.org.au/component/content/article/59-edition-113/126-the-australian-flag-is-a-symbol-of-racism

As are her watermelon (vote-for-me) policies.

I see no advantage in a republic, but do consider the flag an anachronism. If we (non-Aboriginal Australians) earn the right, I'd like to see us adopt the Aboriginal flag.

why the f*ck would we make the emblem of a conquered people into our national symbol lmao

we earned the right to this land by defeating aboriginals

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT

# wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:23pm:

I see no advantage in a republic, but do consider the flag an anachronism. If we (non-Aboriginal Australians) earn the right, I'd like to see us adopt the Aboriginal flag.

You'd be a friggen small group that would want to throw our flag out for the abbo flag.

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:25pm:

why the f*ck would we make the emblem of a conquered people into our national symbol ...

Because it's a superior design.

I'm definitely pro-republic and I'm thinking that I would like a new Aussie flag - perhaps with the Southern Cross overlaid onto (or otherwise incorporated into) the Aboriginal flag...

# wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:23pm:

I see no advantage in a republic, but do consider the flag an anachronism. If we (non-Aboriginal Australians) earn the right, I'd like to see us adopt the Aboriginal flag.

Should we adopt petrol sniffing, abuse children and belt the living daylights out of women too?

Who gives a toss about the Abos?

I sure as hell don't.

A wasteful, useless group of people if ever there were any.

# wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:27pm:

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:25pm: why the f*ck would we make the emblem of a conquered people into our national symbol ... Because it's a superior design.

You have an extremely wrong sense of aesthetics.

The Aboriginal flag is okay though; I'm not disputing that it is an effective aesthetic design. The Australian flag actually violates various vexillological rules but it doesn't really matter as it looks great.

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:25pm:

why the f*ck would we make the emblem of a conquered people into our national symbol lmao

Because that's exactly what this would-be new flags symbolises...their having conquered a monarchy, become a republic,  .... and think this flag would appeal to specific anti-monarchical focus groups also.

::) I agree with you re- what this flag represents, and how it's too similar to conquered others.

# wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:27pm:

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:25pm: why the f*ck would we make the emblem of a conquered people into our national symbol ... Because it's a superior design.

Well if it is pretty you are looking for maybe we should get a couple of sydney h0m0s to knock something up, the more minority input the better.  ;D

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:29pm:

...The Aboriginal flag is okay though; I'm not disputing that it is an effective aesthetic design. The Australian flag actually violates various vexillological rules but it doesn't really matter as it looks great.

I disagree. Our current flag is  a mess.

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:33pm:

# wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:27pm: aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:25pm: why the f*ck would we make the emblem of a conquered people into our national symbol ... Because it's a superior design. Well if it is pretty you are looking for maybe we should get a couple of sydney h0m0s to knock something up, the more minority input the better.  ;D

Why Sydney h0m0s? don't you have artistic gays in Townsville?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:29pm:

Who gives a toss about the Abos? I sure as hell don't. A wasteful, useless group of people if ever there were any.

LOL...so sayeth the egogentric (sic) country-shopping tax-evading alien gypsy - and amoral henchman for hire!?

I'm not sure you quite get it. Integrating the Aboriginal flag into our national flag is simply insulting and cheapens what was the greatest thing to ever occur to the Australian continent; it's colonization and conquest by Anglo-Saxon peoples. It's like the Romans invading Gaul and then replacing the Eagle with the Boar on their imperial standard. It's a celebration of weakness, a failed culture, and a capitulation of the strong to the impotent. It's enormously offensive on so many levels.

Vae victis.

skippy. wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:36pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:33pm: # wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:27pm: aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:25pm: why the f*ck would we make the emblem of a conquered people into our national symbol ... Because it's a superior design. Well if it is pretty you are looking for maybe we should get a couple of sydney h0m0s to knock something up, the more minority input the better.  ;D Why Sydney h0m0s? don't you have artistic gays in Townsville?

I don't know, might have to pop down to the Sov' and ask them if they want to break out their sewing machines and have go.

I just thought the sydney mob could get together after madi gras and come up with something fabulous and sassy.  ;D

There is no republic nation that is as good as Australia. So why lower our standards to a republic?

Didn't we have a Referendum on this issue years ago?

Our Australian flag is absolutely beautiful, crisp, vibrant and young.
Just like our country.

And I think it's in poor taste that Australian primary schools students are yet again being encouraged to design new Australian flags, as though defacing our existing flag formed part of the school curriculum.

::) We have an Australian flag, if you don't like it, then leave.

Yog wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:44pm:

Didn't we have a Referendum on this issue years ago?

As you would know, the wording was was cynically designed by Howard & Co, so as to be a self-defeating pseudo-referendum!

I seem to recall that a former Lib Leader was rather scathing of a certain former Lib PM over this...

We may as well keep the flag, there's way too many out there already for a change to be worthwhile. But if we do change the flag, I'd prefer it if we kept the design simple - like just a single colour. A plain blue flag would be nice and practical as it would just mean painting over the Union Jack and the stars on the existing ones.

But definately a big yes to becoming a republic one day.....

....but only if we can change the name from the quite boring "Australia" to something a bit more impressive like "The Democratic Republic of the Freedom Loving People of that Great Southern Land Australia" - or DRFLPGSLA for short.

It always comes back to 'Howard & Co' with you, doesn't it? ::)

It's going to rain tomorrow. I'm sure Howard had something to do with it.

Equitist wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:52pm:

Yog wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:44pm: Didn't we have a Referendum on this issue years ago? As you would know, the wording was was cynically designed by Howard & Co, so as to be a self-defeating pseudo-referendum! I seem to recall that a former Lib Leader was rather scathing of a certain former Lib PM over this...

Well, I voted Yes, regardless of how it was worded.  ;)

Yog wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:59pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:52pm: Yog wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:44pm: Didn't we have a Referendum on this issue years ago? As you would know, the wording was was cynically designed by Howard & Co, so as to be a self-defeating pseudo-referendum! I seem to recall that a former Lib Leader was rather scathing of a certain former Lib PM over this... Well, I voted Yes, regardless of how it was worded.  ;)

I voted no also regardless of how it was worded.

And it was not the wording which was the problem but that most people did not want it. It was not only beaten in the referendum it was smashed and would probably do worse today.

We have one of the worlds best flags.

.

Quote:

I voted no also regardless of how it was worded. We have one of the worlds best flags.

I was having a bad day that referendum Saturday.  ;)  I do not want the flag changed.  >:(

The yellow section on that flag was meant to be a stylised boomerang. This one is less subtle. I don't like this one, but the idea is getting there.  

---

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:33pm:

# wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:27pm: ... it's a superior design. Well if it is pretty you are looking for maybe we should get a couple of sydney h0m0s to knock something up ...

I'd go for elegant over pretty. While I respect your preference for homosexuals, I don't believe the sexuality of the designer(s) would affect the quality of the design. Our current flag is overly complex and unbalanced. The union jack and the Aboriginal flag are both good designs. The latter has an advantage in its simplicity.

I reckon the Aboriginal flag would be a good starting point for a new Australian flag.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 6:20pm:

... We have one of the worlds best flags.

Until Whitlam, we had two flags. Our national anthem was not what it is today, either.

Bear in mind that things change. Many Australians fought and died under the Union Jack, not the blue ensign.

I like our Australian flag just the way it is...and would Indigenous Australia's approve of our defacing their Aboriginal flag to suit ourselves?

Hardly, and who could blame them.

And did Indigenous Australians have their own national flag before the British founded Australia?

I like our flag as it is now.

What it signifies is of lesser importance than it's aesthetic appeal to me.
It's a nice look. I haven't seen any better option for a new flag, and a new flag won't change dix as far as "independence" goes.
So why bother with it?

What is it that you think may change with a new flag?
There may be a minority in the world who may ask, "Oh what is that new country?" The rest don't give a stuff. Why should they?

If Lithuania changed their flag, would you be interested at all? You probably don't even know what their current flag is.
Get over your self-importance. It's not important.
Puhlease..go overseas, read their papers, watch their TV, and realise how bloody insignificant we are compared to the rest of the world. Get off your bloody high horse.

We have a recognisable flag now. Don't take that for granted.


I don't think that you can fathom that nobody really cares. Well, they care about as much as you do when you hear of another suicide bombing in Iraq. Can you empathise with that? Probably not.

Nobody cares about Australia except Australians, get it through your frikin scones!!

mellie wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:18pm:

Please outline your reasons for preferring one way or the other. 8-)

I'll go with the 'If it ain't broke, why fix it??' reason....

Amadd wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 9:31am:

... a new flag won't change dix as far as "independence" goes ...

I disagree. The Jack in the corner implies that we're still in short pants, tied to mummy's apron strings.

I guess that's also an argument for a Republic, but I find the Commonwealth connection comforting. The constant visual reminder on the flag, I find obnoxious. Doesn't make a lot of sense, I know, but that's the way of it for me. Add to that the fundamentally flawed design of our current flag and change is in order.

Quote:

I disagree. The Jack in the corner implies that we're still in short pants, tied to mummy's apron strings.

The simple fact is that nobody cares. Go overseas to any nation and you will see how insignificant we are.

Granted, if we wan't to feel more independent within ourselves then we only have ourselves to please.

I'm not afraid at all of the union jack. It's part of ourselves, part of our short history as a nation. I like it.

I'm not really a monarchist but I don't mind the monarchy at all. They're quite nice.
The British monarchy has agreed to self-reliance, they don't enforce anything much at all nowadays. They lead by example, and that's all that I could ever ask for.
I'm proud to have the union jack within our flag, and I'm proud of the monarchy.

mellie wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 9:25am:

... would Indigenous Australia's approve ...

I'll be interested to hear what they say when you ask.

# wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:23pm:

... If we (non-Aboriginal Australians) earn the right, I'd like to see us adopt the Aboriginal flag.

Like I said, if we earn the right.

What about, Yes, but it is not the right time?

Our Flag

Author: Unknown

 Our Flag wears the stars that blaze at night,
In our Southern skies of blue,
And a little old flag in the corner,
That’s part of our heritage too.

It’s for the English, the Scots and the Irish,
Who were sent to the ends of the earth,
The rogues and schemers, the doers and dreamers,
Who gave modern Australia its birth.

And you, who are shouting to change it,
You don’t seem to understand,
It’s the flag of our laws and our language,
Not the flag of a faraway land.

Though there are plenty of people who'll tell you,
How when Europe was plunged into night,
That little old flag in the corner,
Was their symbol of freedom and light.

It doesn’t mean we owe allegiance,
To a forgotten imperial dream,
We’ve the stars to show where we’re going,
And the old flag to show where we’ve been.

It’s only an old piece of bunting,
It’s only an old piece of rag,
But there are thousands who’ve died for its honour,
And shed of their blood for OUR FLAG.

An acquaintance has suggested the Japanese civil flag as a basis. Just change the background to gold. The image will be familiar to anyone who has gone through a bushfire (or a dust storm).

mellie wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 9:25am:

I like our Australian flag just the way it is ...

Amadd wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 9:31am:

I like our flag as it is now. ...

We're all most comfortable with the familiar. That's probably why I don't support a Republic.

Have either of you tried thinking outside your comfort zones?

# wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 1:52pm:

An acquaintance has suggested the Japanese civil flag as a basis. Just change the background to gold. The image will be familiar to anyone who has gone through a bushfire (or a dust storm).

Yes, that would a great comfort to ALL the families who lost relatives in World War 2.....wouldn't it?????

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:04pm:

# wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 1:52pm: An acquaintance has suggested the Japanese civil flag as a basis. Just change the background to gold. The image will be familiar to anyone who has gone through a bushfire (or a dust storm). Yes, that would a great comfort to ALL the families who lost relatives in World War 2.....wouldn't it?????

you didn't expect anything better, did you gizmo

They don't put their brain into gear

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:04pm:

# wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 1:52pm: An acquaintance has suggested the Japanese civil flag as a basis. Just change the background to gold. The image will be familiar to anyone who has gone through a bushfire (or a dust storm). Yes, that would a great comfort to ALL the families who lost relatives in World War 2.....wouldn't it?????

I think you're confusing the civil flag with the military rising sun battle flag.

Quote:

We're all most comfortable with the familiar.

Has the thought ever occured to you that some people might just like the Union Jack and original flag because they like it? I always find it so presumptious when liberals always get up on their little soapbox and chastise people for liking things the way they are and ascribe the reason for this due unequivocally to the fact that these things are "familiar". Your Aboriginal flag idea sucks because it is gay.

# wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:06pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 2:04pm: # wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 1:52pm: An acquaintance has suggested the Japanese civil flag as a basis. Just change the background to gold. The image will be familiar to anyone who has gone through a bushfire (or a dust storm). Yes, that would a great comfort to ALL the families who lost relatives in World War 2.....wouldn't it????? I think you're confusing the civil flag with the military rising sun battle flag.

No, the Rising Sun Battle Flag was used by Australia....not Japan..

The Imperial Japanese Navy flag was this one
http://www.japanorama.com/images/navy_army_ww2_flag.gif

Which isn't all that different to the current flag...
And the 'Red Sun on White' was used by the Imperial Army Forces...

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:09pm:

Quote: We're all most comfortable with the familiar. Has the thought ever occured to you that some people might just like the Union Jack and original flag because they like it? I always find it so presumptious when Liberals always get up on their little soapbox and chastise people for liking things the way they are and ascribe the reason for this due unequivocally to the fact that these things are "familiar". Your Aboriginal flag idea sucks because it is gay.

that's funny I thought was a labor PEOPLE GET presumptions

IM JESUS Christ liberal and I like my flag and the aboriginal flag sUCks


. So leave the flag alone

;)

Small case "liberal", not "Liberal".

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:15pm:

... No, the Rising Sun Battle Flag was used by Australia....not Japan.. ...

I think you're confusing the Australian rising sun badge with the Japanese flag.

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:17pm:

Small case "liberal", not "Liberal".

you lost me on that one


;)

# wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 2:15pm: ... No, the Rising Sun Battle Flag was used by Australia....not Japan.. ... I think you're confusing the Australian rising sun badge with the Japanese flag.

No I am NOT....The Japanese flag, with a red ball surrounded by red lines 'shooting' out is the Japanese Navay Flag..

The red ball on a white background is the Japanese Army flag...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:24pm:

# wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 2:19pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 2:15pm: ... No, the Rising Sun Battle Flag was used by Australia....not Japan.. ... I think you're confusing the Australian rising sun badge with the Japanese flag. No I am NOT....The Japanese flag, with a red ball surrounded by red lines 'shooting' out is the Japanese Navay Flag.. The red ball on a white background is the Japanese Army flag...

So "the Rising Sun Battle Flag was used by Australia" where?

# wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:31pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 2:24pm: # wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 2:19pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 2:15pm: ... No, the Rising Sun Battle Flag was used by Australia....not Japan.. ... I think you're confusing the Australian rising sun badge with the Japanese flag. No I am NOT....The Japanese flag, with a red ball surrounded by red lines 'shooting' out is the Japanese Navay Flag.. The red ball on a white background is the Japanese Army flag... So "the Rising Sun Battle Flag was used by Australia" where?

The Rising Sun was used on Australian Army badges, that's true...
Ok, I'll give you the 'Rising Sun Battle Flag'
I should have said Rising Sun emblem.....
The 'Rising Sun' flag was Navy, Marine and Navy fighters only...

But the red dot on white background was the Imperial Army flag, and flew over Japanese ground troops going into battle and over POW camps and captured cities/islands.....

It still wouldn't be acceptable to a large number of Aussies as a flag....even IF the colours were varied....

It's been pointed out that gold could look like urine stain. That might make the Japan-phobic happy, but would hardly be appropriate for a national flag.

By the way, my father served in what is now Indonesia. He had no problem with the Japanese. In fact, he once showed me correspondence, to him from a former Japanese soldier who served in the same theatre. It seems prejudice is a luxury of those who don't know.

# wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:54pm:

It's been pointed out that gold could look like urine stain. That might make the Japan-phobic happy, but would hardly be appropriate for a national flag. By the way, my father served in what is now Indonesia. He had no problem with the Japanese. In fact, he once showed me correspondence, to him from a former Japanese soldier who served in the same theatre. It seems prejudice is a luxury of those who don't know.

Tell it to my father's two brothers WHO were prisoners of the Japanese for
2 1/2 years

>:(

# wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:54pm:

It's been pointed out that gold could look like urine stain. That might make the Japan-phobic happy, but would hardly be appropriate for a national flag. By the way, my father served in what is now Indonesia. He had no problem with the Japanese. In fact, he once showed me correspondence, to him from a former Japanese soldier who served in the same theatre. It seems prejudice is a luxury of those who don't know.

And MY Father served in New Guinea, along Kokoda.....
And it took us 10 years to get him to agree to eat in a Chinese restaurant...and 20 years to go to a Japanese one.....

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 2:09pm:

Quote: We're all most comfortable with the familiar. Has the thought ever occured to you that some people might just like the Union Jack and original flag because they like it? I always find it so presumptious when liberals always get up on their little soapbox and chastise people for liking things the way they are and ascribe the reason for this due unequivocally to the fact that these things are "familiar". Your Aboriginal flag idea sucks because it is gay.

Mindless resistance to change being a conservative characteristic, don't you have that backward?

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:38pm:

I'm not sure you quite get it. Integrating the Aboriginal flag into our national flag is simply insulting and cheapens what was the greatest thing to ever occur to the Australian continent; it's colonization and conquest by Anglo-Saxon peoples. It's like the Romans invading Gaul and then replacing the Eagle with the Boar on their imperial standard. It's a celebration of weakness, a failed culture, and a capitulation of the strong to the impotent. It's enormously offensive on so many levels. Vae victis.

A delusion of grandeur, of the kind that often drives ethnic Europeans to make fools of themselves when they visit Europe... Raving on about history in an unEuropean way, which in the end turns out to be not from a love for Europe and Europeans but rather from an obsession with power.

The Current Australian flag is a great flad as is the Aboriginal flag.

I would prefer to see the Australian flag kept as is and the Aboriginal flag recognised as an official flag of Australia as well.

Seperatly they are both good flags merged they would be rubbish.

Comment on the Vote tally.

I find it interesting that this vote somewhat mirrors the original debate results.

when you add it all up it is about 50 - 50 but when you look into it about half confidently want to keep what we have and the other 50% want a change but can not make up their collective mind about exactly what result they want.


This is the reason that when the republicans now talk about having another attempt they strongly argue for a process which would rig the result, they are not interested in a fair process.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 9:02am:

The Current Australian flag is a great flad as is the Aboriginal flag. I would prefer to see the Australian flag kept as is and the Aboriginal flag recognised as an official flag of Australia as well. Seperatly they are both good flags merged they would be rubbish.

Yes, we could have two flags, a public one that we show the rest of the world and a private one that we keep to ourselves.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:29pm:

Who gives a toss about the Abos? I sure as hell don't. A wasteful, useless group of people if ever there were any.

That's a rather judgmental attitude to have toward the natives isn't it? I'm not sure if it's right to criticise and do nothing to help them or to be an agent/catalyst in a process of reform.

If you want to talk about being wasteful, it depends on what criteria you use to judge what is a proper, rational and appropriate lifestyle and what would qualify as a "non-waste" of one's life.

A Western society has the benefit of science and technology -- in the form of machines, equipment and capital goods that enable us to extract and acquire energy and resources to improve, increase or maximise our quality of life. Australia has one of the highest carbon emission and energy consumption rates per capita in the world. This rate of energy and resource usage is held up in an effort to maintain economic activity, done for the purpose of maximising profits. This may not seem like a problem when we live in relative comfort and when relative demand in developing countries is still not high enough to compete with our's. If developing countries had more money to buy the world's resources we wouldn't be able to use as much energy as we did now. We are living in relative comfort.

The world either reached peak oil several years ago, or is no longer able to keep up with demand. If the criterion for wastefulness is the rate of energy and resource usage, then I don't think the natives are as wasteful as the rest of us. The kind of lifestyle enabled by technology would be foreign to the traditional Aboriginal cultures.

Maybe the reason why they are doing so badly is because they are not wasteful enough.


aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:38pm:

I'm not sure you quite get it. Integrating the Aboriginal flag into our national flag is simply insulting and cheapens what was the greatest thing to ever occur to the Australian continent; it's colonization and conquest by Anglo-Saxon peoples. It's like the Romans invading Gaul and then replacing the Eagle with the Boar on their imperial standard. It's a celebration of weakness, a failed culture, and a capitulation of the strong to the impotent. It's enormously offensive on so many levels. Vae victis.

I'm not sure which is more offensive, conquering or being conquered. :D

Having an aboriginal flag isn't necessarily offensive. If you focus on their supposed "failings" it may well seem repulsive. But most people, especially outsiders, don't know anything about these "failings." In a post-colonial culture, people tend to look negatively upon conquest as the strong imposing their pompous agenda on the weak. As ironic as it may seem, an aboriginal flag would be a statement of humility and the conquerors can take credit for their humility. Humility is an honourable virtue. The guests would be pleased.

I think today's aboriginals are caught between two worlds, the native culture and the new one enhanced by technological infrastructure. They are the one ancestry that receives less demands to assimilate because they are native. Their social problems are a result of an identity crisis. They're just not very good at being Western.

Not actually advocating our side, just a comment.

EDIT: I meant "either side" not "our side" on the last line.

Quote:

I think today's aboriginals are caught between two worlds, the native culture and the new one enhanced by technological infrastructure. They are the one ancestry that receives less demands to assimilate because they are native. Their social problems are a result of an identity crisis. They're just not very good at being Western.

Saying sorry and a new flag should fix it

That tokenism worked well for Kevvy.

He pissed off almost everyone but the latte sipping chattering classes.  Their backs got a jaunty clapping.

It is a sign of utter immaturity to be chasing after novelty all the time - which is what the republic and new flag caper is all about. And a massive dose of Oyrish resentment, of course. That's what fuels the Aboriginal industry and that's what stokes the fires of this republic/flag boosterism.

I don't mind the Union Jack in the corner of a flag but wouldn't have a sook if it disappeared. I certainly do not want to see anything like a kangaroo or any such thing. I think that the eureka flag is also a excellent option for a national flag.

I cannot stand the Aboriginal flag but for me it is more about the colours than the design, although even the design doesn't inspire me. So collectively I do not like it. For me keeping the deep blue and the Southern Cross are essential.

Personally I think the US flag is actually the best looking flag in the world. And not crediting the things done under them, but German flags of WW2 are also very cool. The European Union flag also very appealing.

We should become a Republic if there is a corresponding advantage for the citizens of Australia and I would not say no to a new flag if I liked the design and it had dignity.

I didn'y vote as none of the options suit me.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:07am:

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 4:38pm: I'm not sure you quite get it. Integrating the Aboriginal flag into our national flag is simply insulting and cheapens what was the greatest thing to ever occur to the Australian continent; it's colonization and conquest by Anglo-Saxon peoples. It's like the Romans invading Gaul and then replacing the Eagle with the Boar on their imperial standard. It's a celebration of weakness, a failed culture, and a capitulation of the strong to the impotent. It's enormously offensive on so many levels. Vae victis. A delusion of grandeur, of the kind that often drives ethnic Europeans to make fools of themselves when they visit Europe... Raving on about history in an unEuropean way, which in the end turns out to be not from a love for Europe and Europeans but rather from an obsession with power.

In my case, it's both. Like I can be compared to those so lacking in awareness of the last fifty years of Western history to actually think that the attitudes that I just expressed would receive any sort of welcoming or popular reception in the European continent. Puhleeze, Helian.

Might makes right. Prussian values NEVER die.

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:19pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 5th, 2010 at 9:02am: The Current Australian flag is a great flad as is the Aboriginal flag. I would prefer to see the Australian flag kept as is and the Aboriginal flag recognised as an official flag of Australia as well. Seperatly they are both good flags merged they would be rubbish. Yes, we could have two flags, a public one that we show the rest of the world and a private one that we keep to ourselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_flags

List of Australian flags - note: some of these are not official flags of Australia but many are or were.

.

Firstly..get our own royal family..force Prince Harry to marry Kylie Minogue and make them our king and queen.
Then we can simply drop the union jack from the corner of our flag and just leave it as it is.

Problem solved..   :)

Funny how the republicans get hung up on the insignificant things like flags.

There is plenty of ways we could improve our democracy through reform. A new flag or a new label won't do anything.

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2010 at 3:56pm:

Might makes right. Prussian values NEVER die.

Prussia? Prussia?  That defunct German state?

It died.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 9:02am:

The Current Australian flag is a great flad as is the Aboriginal flag. I would prefer to see the Australian flag kept as is and the Aboriginal flag recognised as an official flag of Australia as well. Seperatly they are both good flags merged they would be rubbish.

I couldn't agree more.

:)