Well I saw the three independents interviewed tonight, and was impressed by both Tony Windsor, and Rob Oakshott, who both seemed decent guys who will do their best to help provide a stable government, if the right deal can be struck, that satisfies them that they will be fairly representing their electorates.
Bob Katter was very keen to see the three of them joining forces, and working together as a unified group, but I hope that the other two are sensible enough to reject that option, and instead choose to support the ALP in forming a minority government with the two greens members.
That would give them a likely number of 77 seats, enough to run a stable government.

Both Bob Katter, and Tony Windsor, were scathing in their criticisms of the Nationals, and most especially Barnaby Joyce, whom Tony Windsor declared , "A FOOL", and I think the majority of Australians can certainly agree with those comments.

The only way I could see either Windsor or Katter supporting a Coalition Minority would be on the guarantee that Joyce be relegated to coventry in the backseats, and certainly nowhere near any Ministry in a Coalition government.

It was interesting to see the types of people here who applauded his buffoon like behaviour on the channel 9 election panel, and Tony Abbott must be thinking that with friends like that, who needs enemies.

As Rob Oakshott was determined to reinforce, in his interview tonight, he sees this as an opportunity to really show the Australian people just how valuable true representative politics can work for the betterment of both the local communities, and the country as a whole, and I think a lot of people respect that message greatly.

So I hold on to the hope that these two fine independents may choose to broker a deal with the Gillard government to form a new government that may deliver bi-partisan outcomes for the nation that none of us have ever before seen, and I wish them well in that endeavour if they do choose that route.

If they go with Abbott I expect to see them as being significant moderators of any extreme actions he may have wished for, and if anything that would help him to carve a place for himself away from the far right, where he has entrenched himself in the past, so that will be good for both Abbott and the country.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 10:29pm:

Well I saw the three independents interviewed tonight, and was impressed by both Tony Windsor, and Rob Oakshott, who both seemed decent guys who will do their best to help provide a stable government, if the right deal can be struck, that satisfies them that they will be fairly representing their electorates. Bob Katter was very keen to see the three of them joining forces, and working together as a unified group, but I hope that the other two are sensible enough to reject that option, and instead choose to support the ALP in forming a minority government with the two greens members. That would give them a likely number of 77 seats, enough to run a stable government. Both Bob Katter, and Tony Windsor, were scathing in their criticisms of the Nationals, and most especially Barnaby Joyce, whom Tony Windsor declared , "A FOOL", and I think the majority of Australians can certainly agree with those comments. The only way I could see either Windsor or Katter supporting a Coalition Minority would be on the guarantee that Joyce be relegated to coventry in the backseats, and certainly nowhere near any Ministry in a Coalition government. It was interesting to see the types of people here who applauded his buffoon like behaviour on the channel 9 election panel, and Tony Abbott must be thinking that with friends like that, who needs enemies. As Rob Oakshott was determined to reinforce, in his interview tonight, he sees this as an opportunity to really show the Australian people just how valuable true representative politics can work for the betterment of both the local communities, and the country as a whole, and I think a lot of people respect that message greatly. So I hold on to the hope that these two fine independents may choose to broker a deal with the Gillard government to form a new government that may deliver bi-partisan outcomes for the nation that none of us have ever before seen, and I wish them well in that endeavour if they do choose that route. If they go with Abbott I expect to see them as being significant moderators of any extreme actions he may have wished for, and if anything that would help him to carve a place for himself away from the far right, where he has entrenched himself in the past, so that will be good for both Abbott and the country.

You really need to get a bit of real-politic into your thinking. Take a good look at the votes in each of these seats. Given that labor supporters are about as plentiful as snow on Uluru can you imagine what wil happen to them if they support a labor govt? Their careers wll be gone, their reputations will be gone andin FNQ whose to say that is all they will lose! They will get a very good deal from Abbott to support him while knowing that they dont have a choice anyhow.

There has been some conjecture, here and elsewhere, as to whether Turnbull might defect and become an Independent...

Here is how his electorate of Wentworth voted yesterday http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/went.htm: -

---

Conjecture?, or just mischief making?
I seriously doubt that anyone in a blue ribbon Liberal seat would be likely to defect, but the possibility is there for some one to cross the floor, my goodness that would be a sight to see.

Anyone remember Senator Albert Field?

Of course anyone who does knows that, duplicitous deceitful, and ignoble actions may still be in the minds of some political deal makers.

Very interesting days ahead, indeed.

Quote:

You really need to get a bit of real-politic into your thinking. Take a good look at the votes in each of these seats. Given that labor supporters are about as plentiful as snow on Uluru can you imagine what wil happen to them if they support a labor govt? Their careers wll be gone, their reputations will be gone andin FNQ whose to say that is all they will lose! They will get a very good deal from Abbott to support him while knowing that they dont have a choice anyhow.

longy

You make too many assumptions longy, and only Katters seat, in deepest darkest redneck country is liable to throw up any real protest against siding with a Gillard government, which is another reason not to want him as part of a minority government, but not the primary one, he should just stay as an independent, like he has been, as that role suits him best.

I am guessing you do not spend a lot of time in regional australia if you think they are all far right wing idiots who would rise up against anyone who does not share their right wing views, because the larger majority are not politically motivated at all, and will happily support anyone that will deliver the best outcomes for their communities.

The massive falling off of the Nats in the bush shows that they do not think that a single party alone will deliver those results, and I can see both Oakshott's and Windsor's electorates rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of having their local concerns put front and centre in a new government.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 7:53am:

Conjecture?, or just mischief making? I seriously doubt that anyone in a blue ribbon Liberal seat would be likely to defect, but the possibility is there for some one to cross the floor, my goodness that would be a sight to see. Anyone remember Senator Albert Field? Of course anyone who does knows that, duplicitous deceitful, and ignoble actions may still be in the minds of some political deal makers. Very interesting days ahead, indeed.

Why don't Gillard make Turnbull speaker then he could make it hard for the liberals that back stabed him and it would be one less vote for the opposition.

Having a speaker fom the opposition does make things a bit harder in the house, and I don't think Turnbull would wish to take on that role anyway, as The Speaker's role usually goes to a loyal backbencher with little hope of holding a Ministry.

The idea of Bob Katter having a substantial say in any future government is scary. The guy is a feral.

I'd far sooner see Abbott and Gillard pool their resources and govern as a coalition that is representative of what the public at large really want. After all, their policy differences are trivial and they have a great deal of talent between them.

I agree muso, I would not want Katter anywhere near government, let him stay as an independent.
I was really impressed by the other two guys, especially Tony Windsor, he seemed a really decent bloke.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 7:53am:

Conjecture?, or just mischief making?

Nah, I'm serious - there's been a lot of bad blood between the Party and Turnbull, including on these very boards...

As I suggested before the election: reluctant though Abbott may be, he will need to offer Turnbull a prominent role on the front bench - because Turnbull will have contingency plans...

I remind everyone that: Abbott got an extraordinarily pissy 5% swing towards him in his own electorate - and that Turnbull got a massive endorsement of a 12% swing...

Seriously, for an Opposition/Govt leader, Abbott's 5% personal swing in his own electorate has gotta rate right down the bottom in historical terms - does anybody have access to the relevant stats!?

As for Turnbull's 12% swing - that is a resounding endorsement of him as an individual pollie!

If Abbott reneges on his public promises to reward Turnbull, then, he will give Turnbull the perfect excuse to defect and sit on the cross-benches...

the squirming bullying leftards wriggle around still.

suck it up bullying losers.

what independantt wants to tie themselves to the losing alp ship on the way down ?
a coy that has fallen so far so fast on the results of their own failures and inetpness

judas has backstabbed and not answered any questions.

Tony has risen and been honest.

Quote:

I remind everyone that: Abbott got an extraordinarily pissy 5% swing towards him in his own electorate - and that Turnbull got a massive endorsement of a 12% swing...

I agree that Turnbull is a man of substance. He needs to be in the political forefront.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 8:43am:

the squirming bullying leftards wriggle around still. suck it up bullying losers. what independantt wants to tie themselves to the losing alp ship on the way down ? a coy that has fallen so far so fast on the results of their own failures and inetpness judas has backstabbed and not answered any questions. Tony has risen and been honest.

Crikey, SC - sometimes I wonder what planet you right whingers live on....

The standard MO of the born-to-rule Libs is to: dogmatically deceive, bully, demean, divide, conquer and destroy. Hence, they typically create a lot of bad blood along the way. They are also infamous for whinging and chucking mega tantrums when they don't get their way.

Abbott is one of the most cunning and dishonest pollies around. He lets slip occasionally, on his real agenda -and then cleverly gets around his slips by claiming to be 'honest'. To the objective observer (not necessarily moi), Abbott is too smart by halves!

Like Howard, Abbott tries to use a lot of conflicting doublespeak but he lacks the subtlety of Howard, who typically used other people to get the electorate talking about controversial matters.

I repeat: Abbott is an impatient attack-dog pollie - he's cut out to run, compete and fight and he fundamentally lacks the capacity to negotiate, compromise and co-operate.

Some pollies are brilliant agitators - who ought never be elevated to leadership. Abbott is a great agitator - not a great leader! Ironically, he cannot provide harmony and stability in government because he is consistently erratic!

It remains to be seen, however, whether the Independents will give the Abbott Libs a chance to try to govern - if so, it will be a case of giving them enough rope by default...

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 8:03am:

Quote: You really need to get a bit of real-politic into your thinking. Take a good look at the votes in each of these seats. Given that labor supporters are about as plentiful as snow on Uluru can you imagine what wil happen to them if they support a labor govt? Their careers wll be gone, their reputations will be gone andin FNQ whose to say that is all they will lose! They will get a very good deal from Abbott to support him while knowing that they dont have a choice anyhow. longy You make too many assumptions longy, and only Katters seat, in deepest darkest redneck country is liable to throw up any real protest against siding with a Gillard government, which is another reason not to want him as part of a minority government, but not the primary one, he should just stay as an independent, like he has been, as that role suits him best. I am guessing you do not spend a lot of time in regional australia if you think they are all far right wing idiots who would rise up against anyone who does not share their right wing views, because the larger majority are not politically motivated at all, and will happily support anyone that will deliver the best outcomes for their communities. The massive falling off of the Nats in the bush shows that they do not think that a single party alone will deliver those results, and I can see both Oakshott's and Windsor's electorates rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of having their local concerns put front and centre in a new government.

I am referring to the indisputable fact that these three seats have some of the smallest labor votes in the country. so small in fact that they barely register on the scale. That these seats are massive conservative seats is not in question and the notion of them supporting labor is ridiculous. Take a look at Peter Lewis the Liberal independant - and lunatic - in SA some years ago. 24hrs after standing as a Liberal he decided to support a minoritylabor govt. at the next election he was crushed mercilessly by his electorate. the same fate awaits any of these 3 independants who want to bypass the wishes of their electorates.

Equitist wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:05am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 8:43am: the squirming bullying leftards wriggle around still. suck it up bullying losers. what independantt wants to tie themselves to the losing alp ship on the way down ? a coy that has fallen so far so fast on the results of their own failures and inetpness judas has backstabbed and not answered any questions. Tony has risen and been honest. Crikey, SC - sometimes I wonder what planet you right whingers live on.... The standard MO of the born-to-rule Libs is to: dogmatically deceive, bully, demean, divide, conquer and destroy. Hence, they typically create a lot of bad blood along the way. They are also infamous for whinging and chucking mega tantrums when they don't get their way. Abbott is one of the most cunning and dishonest pollies around. He lets slip occasionally, on his real agenda -and then cleverly gets around his slips by claiming to be 'honest'. To the objective observer (not necessarily moi), Abbott is too smart by halves! Like Howard, Abbott tries to use a lot of conflicting doublespeak but he lacks the subtlety of Howard, who typically used other people to get the electorate talking about controversial matters. I repeat: Abbott is an impatient attack-dog pollie - he's cut out to run, compete and fight and he fundamentally lacks the capacity to negotiate, compromise and co-operate. Some pollies are brilliant agitators - who ought never be elevated to leadership. Abbott is a great agitator - not a great leader! Ironically, he cannot provide harmony and stability in government because he is consistently erratic! It remains to be seen, however, whether the Independents will give the Abbott Libs a chance to try to govern - if so, it will be a case of giving them enough rope by default...

Whatever drugs you are taking, you are taking too many or not enough. Your fantasies get more ridiculous every day.

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:17am:

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 8:03am: Quote: You really need to get a bit of real-politic into your thinking. Take a good look at the votes in each of these seats. Given that labor supporters are about as plentiful as snow on Uluru can you imagine what wil happen to them if they support a labor govt? Their careers wll be gone, their reputations will be gone andin FNQ whose to say that is all they will lose! They will get a very good deal from Abbott to support him while knowing that they dont have a choice anyhow. longy You make too many assumptions longy, and only Katters seat, in deepest darkest redneck country is liable to throw up any real protest against siding with a Gillard government, which is another reason not to want him as part of a minority government, but not the primary one, he should just stay as an independent, like he has been, as that role suits him best. I am guessing you do not spend a lot of time in regional australia if you think they are all far right wing idiots who would rise up against anyone who does not share their right wing views, because the larger majority are not politically motivated at all, and will happily support anyone that will deliver the best outcomes for their communities. The massive falling off of the Nats in the bush shows that they do not think that a single party alone will deliver those results, and I can see both Oakshott's and Windsor's electorates rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of having their local concerns put front and centre in a new government. I am referring to the indisputable fact that these three seats have some of the smallest labor votes in the country. so small in fact that they barely register on the scale. That these seats are massive conservative seats is not in question and the notion of them supporting labor is ridiculous. Take a look at Peter Lewis the Liberal independant - and lunatic - in SA some years ago. 24hrs after standing as a Liberal he decided to support a minoritylabor govt. at the next election he was crushed mercilessly by his electorate. the same fate awaits any of these 3 independants who want to bypass the wishes of their electorates.

The outcome of this election will make and break quite a few careers, in the long run.

8-) Australia has already decided who they would prefer to be their PM, and if any of these Independents go against the wishes of a nation, then I cant see their futures being terribly bright.

Not in the long run! 8-)

longweekend - and as an independant, you'ld have to klook at the promaries.

libs - 46%
alp - 35 %

the peolpe say, LIBS

I agree with your contention for Katter's electorate longy, and that is one of the reasons why I think that Gillard should not try and conscript his vote as part of a minority government.

judas should just cry to her "hair dresser " bf and give up.

lol, one good thing about this process is that the Lib supporters will have to accept that they do not have the independents as mindless coalition lackeys as they had hoped.

Whoever forms government will have to deliver real benefits to the communities of these members if they want their support.
Rob Oakeshott made the point time and again in his interview, that he hoped this outcome might work to show the people of Australia the value of true local political representation, and I think he is right on the money.

Most of us vote for a Party, because we think it is the only way to see any worthwhile policies delivered, but if we do get a workable minority government, I can see both Major parties losing a lot more votes to independents at the next election.

As of this morning both parties are on 72 seats each, the Greens have said they'll go with Labor thats 73 plus Labor could still win the Tassie seat, if not the independent GREEN will most likely go with Labor, thats 74 seats.
The best the Libs can do is 73 seats plus maybe the three independents equals 76, BUT they need a speaker thats 75 votes on the floor so a majority of one.
BUT, they need a foreign minister who never leaves the country while parliament sits and no one can be sick during parliament or a no confidence motion could be moved.
The best thing for Australia is the independents to side with Labor.

skippy - you are safe here. bullyboy mozza will never censure you.

leftards of a cowardly feather .........

The best thing for Australia is for them to be able to decide the fate of their own nations leadership, not for this decision to be left up to a few career climbing Independents and or the mother-in-law of a Labor front bencher GG Quentin Bryce.

This isn't democracy, it's Quentocracy.

I believe the Australian people have already spoken.

Labor truly have no respect for the Australian people, are more or less deciding their votes for them, well, are giving it their best shot.

It wont wash.

8-)

Yes the tight numbers will mean that we will be likely to see a No Confidence vote sooner or later, due to unavoidable absences, which will mean that we will all be going back to the polls much sooner than we would like, but I for one hope that the people of Australia get to see the two independents, Windsor, and Oakeshott, performing well as part of a minority government, to inspire even more people to run as independents, and more people to vote for them.

Imn recent time we have seen most independents as single issue extremists that attract few votes from normal aussies, but really moderate, politically centrist independents seeking to represent their local electorate, and the nation, could make a great improvement to our parliament.

Keep it up sprint and you will be getting a real ban.

Try and make some political comments that involve an actual political opinion, and not just persist with your idiotic Liberal fanboy sloganeering.

I honestly cannot think of one intelligent post that I have seen from you this whole campaign, so grow up and stop sooking like a little baby, you are embarrassing yourself.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:47am:

Yes the tight numbers will mean that we will be likely to see a No Confidence vote sooner or later, due to unavoidable absences, which will mean that we will all be going back to the polls much sooner than we would like, but I for one hope that the people of Australia get to see the two independents, Windsor, and Oakeshott, performing well as part of a minority government, to inspire even more people to run as independents, and more people to vote for them. Imn recent time we have seen most independents as single issue extremists that attract few votes from normal aussies, but really moderate, politically centrist independents seeking to represent their local electorate, and the nation, could make a great improvement to our parliament.

I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote...why should a Labor government be allowed to desperately squander more money in order to grapple for a leadership they clearly don't deserve?

It's the only sensible thing to do.

Because should we head back to the polls, it's clear, the Labor party wont win anyway.

The only thing Labor had going for them were the Greens how-to-vote cards...without these, they wouldn't have stood a chance.

Would have been a Liberal victory.

Again, the Australian people have already decided, Gillard reminds me of one of those 'red faces' performers who have been gonged off the stage, though keep on performing.

Booo, hiss, Booo, take a hint ALP!

Australia don't want you.

Not even your own want you...being the dysfunctional little arrangements that you be.

the ALP  is a sham.i

mellie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:56am:

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:47am: Yes the tight numbers will mean that we will be likely to see a No Confidence vote sooner or later, due to unavoidable absences, which will mean that we will all be going back to the polls much sooner than we would like, but I for one hope that the people of Australia get to see the two independents, Windsor, and Oakeshott, performing well as part of a minority government, to inspire even more people to run as independents, and more people to vote for them. Imn recent time we have seen most independents as single issue extremists that attract few votes from normal aussies, but really moderate, politically centrist independents seeking to represent their local electorate, and the nation, could make a great improvement to our parliament. I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote...why should a Labor government be allowed to desperately squander more money in order to grapple for a leadership they clearly don't deserve? It's the only sensible thing to do. Because should we head back to the polls, it's clear, the Labor party wont win anyway. The only thing Labor had going for them were the Greens how-to-vote cards...without these, they wouldn't have stood a chance. Would have been a Liberal victory. Again, the Australian people have already decided, Gillard reminds me of one of those 'red faces' performers who have been gonged off the stage, though keep on performing. Booo, hiss, Booo, take a hint ALP! Australia don't want you. Not even your own want you...being the dysfunctional little arrangements that you be. the ALP  is a sham.

If the public wanted Abbott he'd have won, he didn't.
It doesn't matter who forms gov, neither will have a mandate and we'll be back at the polls in months not years.
That said its interesting to hear the Libs whine about preferences, the coalition are made up of four parties against Labors one.

I wanna see Abbott govern with no advantage. I'm hoping the libs get in now.
He's crowed about Labour not being able to govern without a 17 seat advantage. The libs need that and more.

Let's see him bring back workchoices, let's see him deny spending for the future of Australia to bring about a false government profit, let's see him bring about the true liberal idealism.
What other policy did he have? Oh he didn't talk about foreign debt did he? Hospitals, they are stuffed, you pay. Education, you pay. Roads, you pay.
Geez it seems so simple to bring about a "Government" surplus when all that you do is collect taxes.
But he'll be able to employ dial-up broadband I'm sure  ;D
Too bad you're gonna be held to account Tony. Now you are also responsible for climate change, and the farmers, and everthing else.. not just business making profits. The finish line is 3 marathons away.
Better raise those taxes hey?

Quote:

I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote..

The absolute disingenuousness of the Coalition supporters on this issue is staggering.
If the positions were reversed, they would most definitely not be making these arguments, which means they have no actual principle they support, just a party.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:06am:

Quote: I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote.. The absolute disingenuousness of the Coalition supporters on this issue is staggering. If the positions were reversed, they would most definitely not be making these arguments, which means they have no actual principle they support, just a party.

Either way, it should come down to the majority primary vote..not a few bribable well-connected power-brokers.



And as a Liberal supporter who herself refused to place any preferences, (refer to my how did you voter thread)....I made my stance on the preference system itself quite clear, even before going to the polls...so you may not place me in this category.

Re- if the roles were reversed thingy.



8-).....Again, I believe Australia has already cast their vote, now should Labor which has the support of a few power-brokers and chamber suck-holes choose to go against the wishes of an overwhelming majority Australian vote, Labor as a party will have spat in the face of democracy,'once again'  this and will never live it down.

Labor, a chamber full of "caucus" suck-holes and deep-throats, as per their own partys leaders confessions.

A most dysfunctional lot...we will all be glad to see the back of, once they can chisel show bag-Shorten off his soapbox.


Quote:

"Oh mummy Quentin dearest, I though knocking up your daughter and screwing around behind my wife's back then dumping her at the football would boost my political career, what's happening here?"

8-)

FFS, peoples!


mellie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:56am:

I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote...why should a Labor government be allowed to desperately squander more money in order to grapple for a leadership they clearly don't deserve? It's the only sensible thing to do. Because should we head back to the polls, it's clear, the Labor party wont win anyway. The only thing Labor had going for them were the Greens how-to-vote cards...without these, they wouldn't have stood a chance. Would have been a Liberal victory. Again, the Australian people have already decided, Gillard reminds me of one of those 'red faces' performers who have been gonged off the stage, though keep on performing. Booo, hiss, Booo, take a hint ALP! Australia don't want you. Not even your own want you...being the dysfunctional little arrangements that you be. the ALP  is a sham.

This is not about who "deserves" to win nor who should be "allowed" to rule - this is about who is most trusted to serve the public!

Oh, and please don't dare to presume, to think or speak for the approximately 50% of Aussies, who chose NOT to trust your beloved Libs to serve in their best interests - ta!

Equitist wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:24am:

FFS, peoples! Oh, and please don't dare to presume, to think or speak for the approximately 50% of Aussies, who chose NOT to trust your beloved Libs to serve in their best interests - ta!

The people have spoken and indicated that roughly 49.33% are in favour of a Lib Coalition government and 50.67% are in favour of an ALP government after preferences.

So given that their policies are almost identical (the differences are trivial compared to the US for example), why can't they work together? Isn't that the real mandate?

There is enough talent on both sides to form a cabinet, and a pretty talented one at that.

If either the Libs or the ALP go it alone with the support of the Greens and the independants, it would be less representative of the mandate of the electorate than if they worked together.

They might actually achieve great things together.  The people have spoken. Both sides ran obnoxious negative campaigns, and now they owe it to the electorate to work with the other side.

The alternative of allowing a loose cannon feral crook like Bob Katter some power is unspeakable.

Equ, if the Australian people trusted Labor more, then tell me why is it that an overwhelming majority of their primary votes went to a Liberal party?

I think this speaks for itself, don't you?

Preferences Bill Shorten a few crummy independents and Quentin Bryce aside.

This is about what Australians want, not what Labor commands.

::)

mellie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:38am:

Equ, if the Australian people trusted Labor more, then tell me why is it that an overwhelming majority of their primary votes went to a Liberal party? I think this speaks for itself, don't you? [...] This is about what Australians want, not what Labor commands. ::)

What your post tells me, Mellie is that: you are subjectively prone to selectivity and exaggeration!

http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseStateFirstPrefsByPartyByVoteType-15508-NAT.htm

---

Thy..it is useless aguing with Libs.   They are so one eyed and immoveable that they cannot see past the champers goblets

LET THEM HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They want government so bad - take it sweetie!!!!!!!!!!

Now

about the boats
surplus
health

i await....

LOL

GO TONY

What a great graphic, I guess some folks will have to invent a new deeply held principle or conviction to uphold after seeing that. ;)

Hey, check this out: -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/23/2990674.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201008/r624614_4215770.jpg


Quote:

They said it Three blokes from the backblocks: Bob Katter, Rob Oakeshott, and Tony Windsor Sometimes colourful, sometimes controversial, Australia's new political stars are three blokes from the backblocks who aren't afraid to call it as they see it. Here are Bob Katter, Rob Oakeshott, and Tony Windsor in their own words. On forming a government "Many times I've gone to bed as a cockle doodle doo and woke up the next morning as a feather duster - this might be one of those times." - Independent Queensland MP Bob Katter "She hasn't done that before." - Independent New South Wales MP Tony Windsor on Julia Gillard calling him to congratulate him on Saturday's win "He sounded a bit frantic really." - Tony Windsor on receiving a late night phone message from Tony Abbott "We have similar backgrounds and we've agreed that we simply book in a room, close the door and not be taken advantage of by all you cunning media people and determine a responsible course of conduct to which we can move forward." - Bob Katter "If it's up to me, then the gong goes to whoever's going to give us the right to survive and I couldn't care less whether they're the Labor Party, the Liberal Party or the callithumpian mongoloid party." - Bob Katter "I've worked with people that I loathe and detest, I've worked with them in the past - whatever can get a good outcome for our areas." - Bob Katter "I don't have to pick a red team or a blue team, I don't have to pick Julia or Tony." - Independent New South Wales MP Rob Oakeshott "We can make this work I think if the major parties actually move away from this dog against dog attitude that they've had through the election campaign and look to the national interest on this." - Tony Windsor "The burden is heavy and there are many factors in the choices that are going to have to be made." - Rob Oakeshott On the Nationals "I've never been in parliament as a National, I gave up smoking about the same time [and] I've rid myself of two cancers." - Tony Windsor "I won't get into the antics of what went on then." - Tony Windsor on his Nationals pre-selection battle in 1991 "The National Party is a dying party." - Tony Windsor "You got about two hours?" - Bob Katter, when asked why he left the Nationals "I was a square peg in a round hole from day one." - Rob Oakeshott on his time in the National Party Friends and enemies Saturday's stoush During Saturday's election coverage, Nationals leader Warren Truss told ABC Radio that Mr Katter had reserved most of his venom in the past for the Nationals. He also said Mr Katter was an unreliable parliamentarian who missed more divisions than he attended. Mr Katter has been quick to bite back: "Warren Truss was the leader - he attacked me personally last night and Barnaby Joyce in a similar piece of incredible unfortunateness as far as the Liberal Party goes, very unfair to them." "I thought the provocations by Barnaby Joyce and Warren Truss were not very clever." "The National Party leader made a personal attack upon me and I think if Tony Abbott was watching he would have had a very big difficulty with what was said and Julia Gillard would have had a smile on her face ... I can almost see Tony Abbott grinding his teeth - with friends like these who needs enemies?" Tony Windsor versus Barnaby Joyce "I don't deal with fools terribly lightly, and I think under any definition the man's a fool." - Tony Windsor on Barnaby Joyce "I won't be dealing with him, I don't like the guy. The way in which he was trying to give gratuitous advice in terms of a hung parliament [on Saturday], when he had the balance of power in the Senate [in 2005] and then sold the country out on the sale of Telstra was an indication of just where he stands in terms of country issues." - Tony Windsor on Barnaby Joyce "Well, they're in a position of incredible strength so that being the case they have a shooting licence to say whatever they like at the moment." - Barnaby Joyce on Tony Windsor On rural survival "We're not allowed to fish much at all. We're not allowed to go camping or shooting - or even boiling the billy. We've got a terrible problem with deadly flying foxes. They're going to kill many more people than taipan snakes do in Australia. Rural Australia is closing down." - Bob Katter "Now the boot will be on the other foot, maybe, as far as I'm concerned. There's no point having power if you don't use the power." - Bob Katter on getting a better deal for his rural constituents On broadband "[It's] written on the back of a cigarette paper." - Tony Windsor on Labor's NBN policy "A privatised broadband, I mean, please, don't even talk about it, privatised Telstra has been absolutely disastrous for rural Australia." - Bob Katter

FYI, the 4 key independents are currently speaking at the National Press Club - at a Get-Up sponsored event that was organised prior to the election...

For coverage, turn to ABC24...

Equitist wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 12:54pm:

FYI, the 4 key independents are currently speaking at the National Press Club - at a Get-Up sponsored event that was organised prior to the election... For coverage, turn to ABC24...

These blokes make a lot of sense, even Katter to an extent.
I think they're right too, the old two party system with one running the coffers and the other waiting their turn is over.

skippy. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 1:29pm:

Equitist wrote on Aug 25th, 2010 at 12:54pm: FYI, the 4 key independents are currently speaking at the National Press Club - at a Get-Up sponsored event that was organised prior to the election... For coverage, turn to ABC24... These blokes make a lot of sense, even Katter to an extent. I think they're right too, the old two party system with one running the coffers and the other waiting their turn is over.

I suspect not.

This situation, as it is, is unworkable.  I believe, and posted this on my forum after the weekend, that we should return to the polls and give a party a mandate to govern.  Which ever that may be.

While all four independents will do the best they can (and should) for their electorates, party politics is often required for big picture governing.

This is the long established principle of the cabinet.

The major reason the GALP failed so miserably in the election was due to the maniacal policies pumped out in short order without consultation with cabinet.  The 'gang of four' were so out of touch withe community at large, and out of touch even with their parliamentary colleagues.

But while Bob Katter is focussed on his tarrifs (or whatever is bouncing around inside his bonce) it may be hard to get a policy on, say, asylum shoppers, through parliament.

deepthought wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 1:54pm:

skippy. wrote on Aug 25th, 2010 at 1:29pm: Equitist wrote on Aug 25th, 2010 at 12:54pm: FYI, the 4 key independents are currently speaking at the National Press Club - at a Get-Up sponsored event that was organised prior to the election... For coverage, turn to ABC24... These blokes make a lot of sense, even Katter to an extent. I think they're right too, the old two party system with one running the coffers and the other waiting their turn is over. I suspect not. This situation, as it is, is unworkable.  I believe, and posted this on my forum after the weekend, that we should return to the polls and give a party a mandate to govern.  Which ever that may be. While all four independents will do the best they can (and should) for their electorates, party politics is often required for big picture governing. This is the long established principle of the cabinet. The major reason the GALP failed so miserably in the election was due to the maniacal policies pumped out in short order without consultation with cabinet.  The 'gang of four' were so out of touch withe community at large, and out of touch even with their parliamentary colleagues. But while Bob Katter is focussed on his tarrifs (or whatever is bouncing around inside his bonce) it may be hard to get a policy on, say, asylum shoppers, through parliament.

I'm not going to bother to address your usual rants about the GALP,as you call it deepy.
But, what I will say is that at first I agreed with you that the best option was to return to the polls for a majority gov, but a lot of what the independents say is true.
Australia is unusual in that we do only have a one party gov, even Britain have a coalition now days, and I see it as a way to get what the people of this country want, not what Labor or the coalition want.
I'm even warming to the idea of oakshot to have a blended ministery of the best on offer out of the 150 sitting in parliament, I thought that idea was crazy yesterday, but today I'm not so sure.
Think about it, a blended gov doing what the people want instead of what their part ideology says the people want.
True democracy deepy, I'm sure you'll disagree.

I just read your link deepy, could you let nefi know that those GREENS voters are not going to change their mind if we go back to the polls.
In fact I'm starting to think if we go back to the polls the result could well be the same.
Oh and give her my love. :-*

Each of us who voted on Saturday was voting for the election a local candidate or party to represent locals in the Lower House and for a candidate or party to represent our State in the Senate...

This is what our system of democracy is about!

If the numbers don't stack up for the benefit of the LibLabs, then stiff shyte!

Independents letter stating what they want:


Quote:

TO JULIA GILLARD and TONY ABBOTT Requests for information 1. We seek access to information under the ‘caretaker conventions’ to economic advice from the Secretary of the Treasury Ken Henry and Secretary of Finance David Tune, including the costings and impacts of Government and Opposition election promises and policies on the budget. [My emphasis] 2. We seek briefings from the following Secretaries of Departments: 1. Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy 2. Health and Ageing 3. Education, Employment and Workplace Relations 4. Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government 5. Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry 6. Climate Change, Energy Efficiency and Water 7. Defence 8. Resources, Energy and Tourism 3. We seek briefings from caretaker Ministers and Shadow Ministers in the above portfolio areas to discuss their program for the next three years. 4. We seek advice as soon as possible on their plans to work with the Clerks of the Parliament to improve the status and authority of all 150 local MP’s within parliamentary procedures and structures. In particular, we seek advice on timelines and actions for increasing the authority of the Committee system, private members business and private members bills, matters of public importance, 90 second statements, adjournment debates, and question time. 5. We seek a commitment to explore all options from both sides in regard “consensus options” for the next three years, and a willingness to at least explore all options to reach a majority greater than 76 for the next three years. Included in these considerations is advice on how relationships between the House of Representatives and the Senate can be improved, and a proposed timetable for this to happen. 6. We seek a commitment in writing as soon as possible that if negotiations are to take place on how to form Government, that each of these leaders, their Coalition partners, and all their affiliated MP’s, will negotiate in good faith and with the national interest as the only interest. In this same letter of comfort, we seek a written commitment that whoever forms majority Government will commit to a full three year term, and for an explanation in writing in this same letter as to how this commitment to a full term will be fulfilled, either by enabling legislation or other means. 7. We seek advice as soon as possible on a timetable and reform plan for political donations, electoral funding, and truth in advertising reform, and a timetable for how this reform plan will be achieved in co-operation with the support of the House of Representatives and the Senate. The three non-aligned MP’s will now be heading home to families, electorate duties, and a long-standing appointment with the Governor-General (unrelated to this political deadlock). We have agreed to be back in Canberra on Monday for the full week of meetings in relation to the above. We expect all the above information to be made available through best endeavours as soon as possible, so that formal negotiations with all stakeholders can begin by Friday 3rd September – if, based on final counts, negotiations are indeed needed at all.

Hah! The Opposition costings! Oh man! Will Robb & Hockey come clean on their costings finally? Wouldn’t bet the house on it, I doubt they even know their own costings. Be interesting to see what comes out of tho.