When they cant find anything to say they all pander to one unverisal mistruth.

Tony Abbott and supporters are racist. never mind THE FACT THE first aboriginal elected to parliament was from the liberal party.

Whenever these scum dogs run out of words they come up with the old racism line DESPITE Julia's policy being on boat people being similar to Abbott she's not a racist but Abbott is?

Lies come easy to them.  We constantly see examples here, of delusion, denial, deflection, and dishonesty.  They readily accept "convenient" disinformation.

There was always the option to do the same as  Fraser, Hawke and Keating and to just leave the card in the deck.

In the Howard era they found that playing the card was worth votes.

You must be joking mate.....if anyone has ever played the race card it is Howard and his protégé Abbott.....the Liberal faithful have nothing to be proud of with their comments about minorities and immigration......Australia has shown it is insecure and self serving in every respect.....I think it is time the Coalition stopped playing to the lowest element in society!!!

:)

I agree philperth, and Labor lost votes to the Greens because people did not respect their pathetic pandering to all those seeking to demonise refugees, led by Tony Abbott.

My wife asked me, "How the heck do the Libs think they can promise to stop the boats?"
I told her they just had to return to treating refugees like the worst criminals in society, and locking them up in maximum security hellholes for years, like they used to, because the refugees won't want to come to a place that treats them so cruelly and unfairly.

All the Lib voters are fine with cruelty being directed at refugees, because it works, and they can justify it to themselves by believing that refugee=terrorist.

It is a very tough call to make, because the cruelty policy works, people just have to decide if they are prepared to accept their share of the responsibility for promoting that cruelty?

Most intelligent people realize a few thousand people coming by boat a year will have no affect on their lifestyle what so ever.....Australia would be doing it's bit to alleviate the refugee problems facing our neighbors and show some compassion.....However when their are votes to be won in domestic politics the major parties use refugees as an election issue to attack their opponent demonizing the innocent.....Australia deserves to be labeled racist....it is a fact!!!

:-[

mozzaok wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 8:56am:

I agree philperth, and Labor lost votes to the Greens because people did not respect their pathetic pandering to all those seeking to demonise refugees, led by Tony Abbott. My wife asked me, "How the heck do the Libs think they can promise to stop the boats?" I told her they just had to return to treating refugees like the worst criminals in society, and locking them up in maximum security hellholes for years, like they used to, because the refugees won't want to come to a place that treats them so cruelly and unfairly. All the Lib voters are fine with cruelty being directed at refugees, because it works, and they can justify it to themselves by believing that refugee=terrorist. It is a very tough call to make, because the cruelty policy works, people just have to decide if they are prepared to accept their share of the responsibility for promoting that cruelty?

Re : "How the heck do the Libs think they can promise to stop the boats?"
Look at it this way, these poor asylum seekers are presently very few in number, but if allowed to continue, the numbers have a high likelihood of growing massively.  These people are displaced, without representation or protection, and prone to being brutalised and taken advantage of, they are being placed on boats that are considered disposable in Indonesia etc.  These boats are death traps. The people smuggling business has the potential to become the "Armada of Death", they are not seaworthy.

Do you want this on your conscience?  Wouldn`t you rather try to save the lives of many by discouraging this horrible practice?  A hard line is needed here, once the news of the futility of this practice gets out, the people smuggling business will all but dry up.

Well That is a BEEEEEEAAAUUUUUTTTTYYYY>
That post is going straight on the mantlepiece in the poolroom.

Let me paraphrase if I may, the position that aussiefree3ride is seemingly making,

IF these poor people had better boats, we would LOVE them to come, but we are too worried for their safety to let them risk their lives in unseaworthy craft.

Perhaps you are right, and if there is an iota of honesty in your post, I suppose we can expect to see Tone send a flotilla of seaworthy craft to guarantee the safe passage of these guests that Lib supporters welcome so openly, and whose safety is so paramount to them.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 9:51am:

Well That is a BEEEEEEAAAUUUUUTTTTYYYY> That post is going straight on the mantlepiece in the poolroom. Let me paraphrase if I may, the position that aussiefree3ride is seemingly making, IF these poor people had better boats, we would LOVE them to come, but we are too worried for their safety to let them risk their lives in unseaworthy craft. Perhaps you are right, and if there is an iota of honesty in your post, I suppose we can expect to see Tone send a flotilla of seaworthy craft to guarantee the safe passage of these guests that Lib supporters welcome so openly, and whose safety is so paramount to them.

;D ;D ;D And here`s me thinking that lead was dense!!! :D :D :D

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 9:44am:

Look at it this way, these poor asylum seekers are presently very few in number, but if allowed to continue, the numbers have a high likelihood of growing massively.  These people are displaced, without representation or protection, and prone to being brutalised and taken advantage of, they are being placed on boats that are considered disposable in Indonesia etc.  These boats are death traps. The people smuggling business has the potential to become the "Armada of Death", they are not seaworthy. Do you want this on your conscience?  Wouldn`t you rather try to save the lives of many by discouraging this horrible practice?  A hard line is needed here, once the news of the futility of this practice gets out, the people smuggling business will all but dry up.

Australians hostility towards asylum seekers arriving on boats is not motivated towards stopping them due to any fear or concern for their seaworthiness, it is motivated by an hysterical and irrational fear of invasion by cultural foreigners, atavistic of the Yellow Peril hysteria, for which the only solutions our politicians can offer is incarceration in deserts or transportation to remote islands, both themselves atavistic of another 19th century practise with which Australia has a unique experience.

[quote author=helian link=1282420237/0#9 date=1282441366]
Australians hostility towards asylum seekers arriving on boats is not motivated towards stopping them due to any fear or concern for their seaworthiness, it is motivated by an hysterical and irrational fear of invasion by cultural foreigners, atavistic of the Yellow Peril hysteria, [quote]


That is completely untrue.
The point is that these people who arrive on boats have no skills, no wealth, no education - therefore nothing to offer to benefit this country.

I was of the same view in Britain regarding the Romanians, Poles and Hungarians - they are the same colour as us.

Race or colour is irrelevant.

It is about keeping out poo people who offer nothing.

If they want to come to Australia as economic migrants, there is a process in place.

If they are genuine refugees, there are a shedload of countries closer to where they have come from.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 9:44am:

Do you want this on your conscience?  Wouldn`t you rather try to save the lives of many by discouraging this horrible practice?  A hard line is needed here, once the news of the futility of this practice gets out, the people smuggling business will all but dry up.

Abbott has talked about firing warning shots at them, the way they do with the illegal fishermen.

How is firing shots at terrified families in leaking boats going to help them? Not all of them are politically savvy and won't have a clue about this new policy of turning them back.

There will be even more drownings under this cruelty.

[quote author=philperth2010 link=1282420237/0#5 date=1282431961]Most intelligent people realize a few thousand people coming by boat a year will have no affect on their lifestyle what so ever.....!![/quote]


Tell that to the thousands of homeless living in cars when illegals get 4 star motels hot food shopping trips and free medical?????

Your delusional and is precisely why labor got baseball batted.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 11:42am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 9:44am: Look at it this way, these poor asylum seekers are presently very few in number, but if allowed to continue, the numbers have a high likelihood of growing massively.  These people are displaced, without representation or protection, and prone to being brutalised and taken advantage of, they are being placed on boats that are considered disposable in Indonesia etc.  These boats are death traps. The people smuggling business has the potential to become the "Armada of Death", they are not seaworthy. Do you want this on your conscience?  Wouldn`t you rather try to save the lives of many by discouraging this horrible practice?  A hard line is needed here, once the news of the futility of this practice gets out, the people smuggling business will all but dry up. Australians hostility towards asylum seekers arriving on boats is not motivated towards stopping them due to any fear or concern for their seaworthiness, it is motivated by an hysterical and irrational fear of invasion by cultural foreigners, atavistic of the Yellow Peril hysteria, for which the only solutions our politicians can offer is incarceration in deserts or transportation to remote islands, both themselves atavistic of another 19th century practise with which Australia has a unique experience.

There is no possibly of a sensible debate or discussion with this kind of irrelevant, neurotic rambling.  Emotive, exagerative hysteria can make good comedy, but it`s a pointless WOFTAM most of the time.

mantra wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 11:47am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 9:44am: Do you want this on your conscience?  Wouldn`t you rather try to save the lives of many by discouraging this horrible practice?  A hard line is needed here, once the news of the futility of this practice gets out, the people smuggling business will all but dry up. Abbott has talked about firing warning shots at them, the way they do with the illegal fishermen. How is firing shots at terrified families in leaking boats going to help them? Not all of them are politically savvy and won't have a clue about this new policy of turning them back. There will be even more drownings under this cruelty.

mantra, you really are dumber than crab pot bait.

I'm just sick of non-white immigrants and immigrants in general. I've been toying with the idea of an ethnic status quo that mandates that we are allowed to take in non-white immigrants as long as the proportions in which they arrive cannot change the current ethnic balance of the country. I don't know what should be done about the boat people; it's a tricky situation, but I really don't like the idea of keeping them locked up. Allowing them provisional asylum until it is safe for them and their families to return home seems like the best answer for them, but even that is a problematic solution. The boat people aren't really a big blip on my radar screen though.

Certain groups should just not be allowed to arrive here, period, even if their arrival would not upset the ethnic status quo. Africans in particular fall under this category.

I don't trust our current government at all on this issue. Free debate is essentially banished on discussing these matters, and I've gpt a feeling that our officials are covering up or deliberately providing us with misleading statistics on the crime rates of certain groups.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 12:50pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 11:42am: aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 9:44am: Look at it this way, these poor asylum seekers are presently very few in number, but if allowed to continue, the numbers have a high likelihood of growing massively.  These people are displaced, without representation or protection, and prone to being brutalised and taken advantage of, they are being placed on boats that are considered disposable in Indonesia etc.  These boats are death traps. The people smuggling business has the potential to become the "Armada of Death", they are not seaworthy. Do you want this on your conscience?  Wouldn`t you rather try to save the lives of many by discouraging this horrible practice?  A hard line is needed here, once the news of the futility of this practice gets out, the people smuggling business will all but dry up. Australians hostility towards asylum seekers arriving on boats is not motivated towards stopping them due to any fear or concern for their seaworthiness, it is motivated by an hysterical and irrational fear of invasion by cultural foreigners, atavistic of the Yellow Peril hysteria, for which the only solutions our politicians can offer is incarceration in deserts or transportation to remote islands, both themselves atavistic of another 19th century practise with which Australia has a unique experience. There is no possibly of a sensible debate or discussion with this kind of irrelevant, neurotic rambling.  Emotive, exagerative hysteria can make good comedy, but it`s a pointless WOFTAM most of the time.

Spruiking the image of Australians en masse troubled by the safety of arriving by boat from Indonesia is indicative of a duplicitous agenda. Little, if any, noise (outside of political rhetoric) has been about genuine concern for safety.

A senior Australian politician making it part of his platform "I will stop the boats" was about evoking a past generational Australian fear of invasion which has eaten its way into the cultural psyche. For Australians not to see the 'solution' to this problem - being transportation to a remote island - as evoking the spectre of a 19th century solution to a 19th century problem, indicates that we Australians are somewhat blind to our cultural responsibility.

When asked last week why he was banging on about boat people (as if it were the Spanish Armada), Abbott's first line was "Because Australians want the boats stopped"... That's why Abbott exploited the issue. He simply manipulated an innate Australian cultural paranoia to his perceived advantage... "Frighten them and they will run to the safety that I'm offering" - Repulsing the "invasion".

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 12:55pm:

I'm just sick of non-white immigrants and immigrants in general. I've been toying with the idea of an ethnic status quo that mandates that we are allowed to take in non-white immigrants as long as the proportions in which they arrive cannot change the current ethnic balance of the country. I don't know what should be done about the boat people; it's a tricky situation, but I really don't like the idea of keeping them locked up. Allowing them provisional asylum until it is safe for them and their families to return home seems like the best option for everybody, but even that is a problematic solution. The boat people aren't really a big blip on my radar screen though. Certain groups should just not be allowed to arrive here, period, even if their arrival would not upset the ethnic status quo. Africans in particular fall under this category. I don't trust our current government at all on this issue. Free debate is essentially banished on discussing these matters, and I've gpt a feeling that our officials are covering up or deliberately providing us with misleading statistics on the crime rates of certain groups.

Ausralia is by population, a very small country, without the potential to support a big population. We can only make a token gesture for assylum seekers, the number of people Australia can support is too insignificant.  I believe you to be right re the misleading statistics.

Saying that we have a cultural responsibility to foreign aliens like the boat people has about as much foundation as me saying that we have a primary responsibility to white Australians not to let them in in the first place. We're really just talking about what we want here. The lives of the boat people don't have much value to me but I do sympathize with themto the extent that I don't want to have them locked up, nor do I want to send them to die.


Quote:

Ausralia is by population, a very small country, without the potential to support a big population. We can only make a token gesture for assylum seekers, the number of people Australia can support is too insignificant.  I believe you to be right re the misleading statistics.

Yes, I don't really see why we need a bigger population either. If we are going to have an annual intake of immigrants it should be very small, and at the least, should be designed in such a way that does not upset the ethnic status quo. I really need to make a very lengthy article explaining why I think this but I have other responses pending elsewhere that are hard enough for me to provide a response to (due to a paucity of information presently available to me).

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 12:55pm:

I'm just sick of non-white immigrants and immigrants in general. I've been toying with the idea of an ethnic status quo that mandates that we are allowed to take in non-white immigrants as long as the proportions in which they arrive cannot change the current ethnic balance of the country. I don't know what should be done about the boat people; it's a tricky situation, but I really don't like the idea of keeping them locked up. Allowing them provisional asylum until it is safe for them and their families to return home seems like the best answer for them, but even that is a problematic solution. The boat people aren't really a big blip on my radar screen though. Certain groups should just not be allowed to arrive here, period, even if their arrival would not upset the ethnic status quo. Africans in particular fall under this category. I don't trust our current government at all on this issue. Free debate is essentially banished on discussing these matters, and I've gpt a feeling that our officials are covering up or deliberately providing us with misleading statistics on the crime rates of certain groups.

Representative, I'm sure, of Australian anti-boaters.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:13pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 12:50pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 11:42am: aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 9:44am: Look at it this way, these poor asylum seekers are presently very few in number, but if allowed to continue, the numbers have a high likelihood of growing massively.  These people are displaced, without representation or protection, and prone to being brutalised and taken advantage of, they are being placed on boats that are considered disposable in Indonesia etc.  These boats are death traps. The people smuggling business has the potential to become the "Armada of Death", they are not seaworthy. Do you want this on your conscience?  Wouldn`t you rather try to save the lives of many by discouraging this horrible practice?  A hard line is needed here, once the news of the futility of this practice gets out, the people smuggling business will all but dry up. Australians hostility towards asylum seekers arriving on boats is not motivated towards stopping them due to any fear or concern for their seaworthiness, it is motivated by an hysterical and irrational fear of invasion by cultural foreigners, atavistic of the Yellow Peril hysteria, for which the only solutions our politicians can offer is incarceration in deserts or transportation to remote islands, both themselves atavistic of another 19th century practise with which Australia has a unique experience. There is no possibly of a sensible debate or discussion with this kind of irrelevant, neurotic rambling.  Emotive, exagerative hysteria can make good comedy, but it`s a pointless WOFTAM most of the time. Spruiking the image of Australians en masse troubled by the safety of arriving by boat from Indonesia is indicative of a duplicitous agenda. Little, if any, noise (outside of political rhetoric) has been about genuine concern for safety. A senior Australian politician making it part of his platform "I will stop the boats" was about evoking a past generational Australian fear of invasion which has eaten its way into the cultural psyche. For Australians not to see the 'solution' to this problem - being transportation to a remote island - as evoking the spectre of a 19th century solution to a 19th century problem, indicates that we Australians are somewhat blind to our cultural responsibility. When asked last week why he was banging on about boat people (as if it were the Spanish Armada), Abbott's first line was "Because Australians want the boats stopped"... That's why Abbott exploited the issue. He simply manipulated an innate Australian cultural paranoia to his perceived advantage... "Frighten them and they will run to the safety that I'm offering" - Repulsing the "invasion".

You are stranded o your own dogmatic treadmill.  Like a pet mouse, you are incapable of exploring any other course, or train of thought.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:17pm:

Saying that we have a cultural responsibility to foreign aliens like the boat people has about as much foundation as me saying that we have a primary responsible to white Australians not to let them in in the first place. We're really just talking about what we want here. The lives of the boat people don't have much value to me but I do sympathize with them to the extent that I don't want to have them locked up or send them to die.

We have a cultural responsibility not to evoke the image of a dark chapter in Australian history - Incarceration of the destitute in desert and remote island prisons.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:21pm:

You are stranded o your own dogmatic treadmill.  Like a pet mouse, you are incapable of exploring any other course, or train of thought.

You are a conscious liar.

Quote:

Representative, I'm sure, of Australian anti-boaters.

???

Do Australian "anti-boaters" actually have views similiar to mine, in that they would prefer them not to be locked up or sent back home unless it was safe to do so?

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:23pm:

Quote: Representative, I'm sure, of Australian anti-boaters. ??? Do Australian "anti-boaters" actually have views similiar to mine, in that they would prefer them not to be locked up or sent back home unless it was safe to do so?

Meant to quote only the opening sentence.


Quote:

I'm just sick of non-white immigrants and immigrants in general.

Fair enough, I'm not disputing that. I don't really "hate" anybody though.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:29pm:

I don't really "hate" anybody though.

Too close to love? ;D

:P :P :P

I just like to think that my opinions on this, obviously highly controversial and incendiary theme, are a little more nuanced than those of Macca and Dave's down at the BP Garage outside of Wollongong (despite the fact that they are ultimately similiar in their objectives :P).

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:37pm:

:P :P :P I just like to think that my opinions on this, obviously highly controversial and incendiary theme, are a little more nuanced than those of Macca and Dave's down at the BP Garage outside of Wollongong (despite the fact that they are ultimately similiar in their objectives :P).

Akin to many Germans (and Poles) who, while being somewhat disconcerted by the early pogroms against Jews, nonetheless imagined what a nice place it would be if all the Jews somehow disappeared...

And a politician ultimately obliged them.

One can imagine Hitler, upon being asked why he was banging on about Jews Out, replying "Because the German people want the Jews out".

And he was right, they did. Anti-Semitism was/is an ancient cultural disease in Western Europe.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:17pm:

Saying that we have a cultural responsibility to foreign aliens like the boat people has about as much foundation as me saying that we have a primary responsibility to white Australians not to let them in in the first place. We're really just talking about what we want here. The lives of the boat people don't have much value to me but I do sympathize with themto the extent that I don't want to have them locked up, nor do I want to send them to die. Quote: Ausralia is by population, a very small country, without the potential to support a big population. We can only make a token gesture for assylum seekers, the number of people Australia can support is too insignificant.  I believe you to be right re the misleading statistics. Yes, I don't really see why we need a bigger population either. If we are going to have an annual intake of immigrants it should be very small, and at the least, should be designed in such a way that does not upset the ethnic status quo. I really need to make a very lengthy article explaining why I think this but I have other responses pending elsewhere that are hard enough for me to provide a response to (due to a paucity of information presently available to me).

I agree 100%, we should only be taking in limited numbers, and ONLY people from compatible backgrounds.  I don`t care tf they`re black, brown, green, or yellow, providing they don`t pose a future threat to stability and internal peace.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:49pm:

I agree 100%, we should only be taking in limited numbers, and ONLY people from compatible backgrounds.  I don`t care tf they`re black, brown, green, or yellow, providing they don`t pose a future threat to stability and internal peace.

Are you going to define 'compatible backgrounds' and what you mean by 'a future threat to stability and internal peace' (as if anyone advocates immigration by those who do pose those threats)., such that you're clearly not referring to those 'black, brown, green, or yellow' (always like the inclusion of a non-racial colour... an attempt at feigning racial colour-blindness).

You're a dog whistling liar.

I don't want anybody to "disappear". Merely immigration to be brought near to a grinding halt. The totterring, ricketty edifice we've put together over the past thirty or forty years, that tower of guilt-mongering, endless special pleading and tedious, petty, identity politics, simply needs to be deconstructed and put to death. Ordinary Australians are sick to death of it.

Bringing up the Holocaust is just cheap.


Quote:

Are you going to define 'compatible backgrounds' and what you mean by 'a future threat to stability and internal peace' (as if anyone advocates immigration by those who do pose those threats). You're a dog whistling liar.

I have a feeling he feels the same way I do. I wish more people would just be honest about this sort of thing. There's no shame in it.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:55pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:49pm: I agree 100%, we should only be taking in limited numbers, and ONLY people from compatible backgrounds.  I don`t care tf they`re black, brown, green, or yellow, providing they don`t pose a future threat to stability and internal peace. Are you going to define 'compatible backgrounds' and what you mean by 'a future threat to stability and internal peace' (as if anyone advocates immigration by those who do pose those threats). You're a dog whistling liar.

And you are a silly as a wet dream if you can`t understand the simplest statement.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:57pm:

I don't want anybody to "disappear". Merely immigration to be brought near to a grinding halt. The totterring, ricketty edifice we've put together over the past thirty or forty years, that tower of guilt-mongering, endless special pleading and tedious petty, identity politics, simply needs to be deconstructed and put to death. Ordinary Australians are sick to death of it. Bringing up the Holocaust is just cheap. Quote: Are you going to define 'compatible backgrounds' and what you mean by 'a future threat to stability and internal peace' (as if anyone advocates immigration by those who do pose those threats). You're a dog whistling liar. I have a feeling he feels the same way I do. I wish more people would just be honest about this sort of thing. There's no shame in it.

Thank you Imp, I just want the best future for Australia.

I want the best for my family, my extended family, my ethnic interests and my nation. All matter to me; and none are entirely separate from each other.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 2:06pm:

I want the best for my family, my extended family, my ethnic interests and my nation. All matter to me; and none are entirely separate from each other.

That`s it.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:57pm:

I don't want anybody to "disappear". Merely immigration to be brought near to a grinding halt. The totterring, ricketty edifice we've put together over the past thirty or forty years, that tower of guilt-mongering, endless special pleading and tedious petty, identity politics, simply needs to be deconstructed and put to death. Ordinary Australians are sick to death of it. Bringing up the Holocaust is just cheap.

Read biographies of Germans who found themselves culpable by their silence... They were driven initially not by fear of Nazis, but by the more innate and culturally ancient fears of anti-Semitism and xenophobia. They certainly did not advocate violence or the forced removal of anyone... But wouldn't it be nice if 'the others' just one day weren't there.

Our propensity towards passivity in the face of injustice is founded on what frightens us... In that respect our greatest moral enemy is fear itself.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 1:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:55pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:49pm: I agree 100%, we should only be taking in limited numbers, and ONLY people from compatible backgrounds.  I don`t care tf they`re black, brown, green, or yellow, providing they don`t pose a future threat to stability and internal peace. Are you going to define 'compatible backgrounds' and what you mean by 'a future threat to stability and internal peace' (as if anyone advocates immigration by those who do pose those threats). You're a dog whistling liar. And you are a silly as a wet dream if you can`t understand the simplest statement.

No definitions then?

Of course not. They would undermine the point of dog whistling.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 2:09pm:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:58pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:55pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:49pm: I agree 100%, we should only be taking in limited numbers, and ONLY people from compatible backgrounds.  I don`t care tf they`re black, brown, green, or yellow, providing they don`t pose a future threat to stability and internal peace. Are you going to define 'compatible backgrounds' and what you mean by 'a future threat to stability and internal peace' (as if anyone advocates immigration by those who do pose those threats). You're a dog whistling liar. And you are a silly as a wet dream if you can`t understand the simplest statement. No definitions then? Of course not. They would undermine the point of dog whistling.

Buy a dictionary, work it out for yourself.

Quote:

Read biographies of Germans who found themselves culpable by their silence... They were driven initially not by fear of Nazis, but by the more innate and culturally ancient fears of anti-Semitism and xenophobia. They certainly did not advocate violence or the forced removal of anyone... But wouldn't it be nice if 'the others' just one day weren't there. Our propensity towards passivity in the face of injustice is founded on what frightens us... In that respect our greatest moral enemy is fear itself.

I don't know how this relates to what I'm saying at all. All political views and attitudes can be abused in some way; I'm not suggesting that what I desire can't potentitally be very harmful.. but only a naive person could hold an opinion and not think that it couldn't be potentially harmful. When I attempted to distinguish myself from "Macca & Dave" I meant that my opinions are motivated by things beyond a mere visceral, emotional fear and dislike of foreigners (not that "Macca & Dave" are entirely like that either).

I could never support the ascension of a demagogue or tyrant like those of the last century; but attempting to slander every single politician who attempts to address or stand up for sentiments like those of "Macca & Dave" as potential little Hitlers goes too far and is unfair. Hitler made his views explicit from day one -- everything he was going to do in the Second World War was spelled out in capital letters in Mein Kampf. Anti-immigration, nationalist commentators like Jared Taylor, Steve Sailer, etc don't resemble Hitler in the slightest. Yet they are treated as if they do every time the media talks about them. I stopped buying into the rhetoric a long time ago.

aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 2:15pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 2:09pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:58pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:55pm: aussiefree2ride wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:49pm: I agree 100%, we should only be taking in limited numbers, and ONLY people from compatible backgrounds.  I don`t care tf they`re black, brown, green, or yellow, providing they don`t pose a future threat to stability and internal peace. Are you going to define 'compatible backgrounds' and what you mean by 'a future threat to stability and internal peace' (as if anyone advocates immigration by those who do pose those threats). You're a dog whistling liar. And you are a silly as a wet dream if you can`t understand the simplest statement. No definitions then? Of course not. They would undermine the point of dog whistling. Buy a dictionary, work it out for yourself.

A petulant spat... What a surprise  ::)

Duplicitous rhetoric, undefined emotive terms designed to evoke fears of destruction within an atmosphere of paranoia - a sense of invasion by the alien - You are the worst kind of liar... One who would deter us from further developing a sense of self-confidence, founded on courage, by appealing to our basest insecurities.

v

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 2:22pm:

Quote: Read biographies of Germans who found themselves culpable by their silence... They were driven initially not by fear of Nazis, but by the more innate and culturally ancient fears of anti-Semitism and xenophobia. They certainly did not advocate violence or the forced removal of anyone... But wouldn't it be nice if 'the others' just one day weren't there. Our propensity towards passivity in the face of injustice is founded on what frightens us... In that respect our greatest moral enemy is fear itself. I don't know how this relates to what I'm saying at all. All political views and attitudes can be abused in some way; I'm not suggesting that what I desire can't potentitally be very harmful.. but only a naive person could hold an opinion and not think that it couldn't be potentially harmful. When I attempted to distinguish myself from "Macca & Dave" I meant that my opinions are motivated by things beyond a mere visceral, emotional fear and dislike of foreigners (not that "Macca & Dave" are entirely like that either). I could never support the ascension of a demagogue or tyrant like those of the last century; but attempting to slander every single politician who attempts to address or stand up for sentiments like those of "Macca & Dave" as potential little Hitlers goes too far and is unfair. Hitler made his views explicit from day one -- everything he was going to do in the Second World War was spelled out in capital letters in Mein Kampf. Anti-immigration, nationalist commentators like Jared Taylor, Steve Sailer etc don't resemble Hitler in the slightest. Yet they are treated as if they do every time the media talks about them. I stopped buying into the rhetoric a long time ago.

Then why, exactly, are you "just sick of non-white immigrants and immigrants in general".

Do you not intuit any fraternity with those 1920's Germans who were just sick of Jews, Gypsies and auslanders in general?

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Then why, exactly, are you "just sick of non-white immigrants and immigrants in general".

I've been meaning to write it out actually. I've been constructing a site over the past several months that explains all the nuances of my views, but it'll take a while to finish.

I'm not up to that bit yet. If somebody here has access to JSTOR or any other academic database please private message me.


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Do you not intuit any fraternity with those 1920's Germans who were just sick of Jews, Gypsies and auslanders in general?

I do. That doesn't necessarily mean that I desire the same thing as Hitler did. And I don't think any Australian and "anti-boater" does either. This does not mean however that the views of said Germans were exactly founded upon anything substantial; but this does not mean that it logically follows that my, or anybody else's views of the present day, are likewise without founding.

Maybe you should think about what the people who run this country desire for us; they're not exactly benign forces either. The people who ridicule the supposed xenophobes and "white trash" (a term you love and use so contemptuously all the time) disgust me to a great extent at times.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 2:43pm:

Quote: Then why, exactly, are you "just sick of non-white immigrants and immigrants in general". I've been meaning to write it out actually. I've been constructing a site over the past several months that explains all the nuances of my views, but it'll take a while to finish. I'm not up to that bit yet. [quote]Do you not intuit any fraternity with those 1920's Germans who were just sick of Jews, Gypsies and auslanders in general?

I do. That doesn't necessarily mean that I desire the same thing as Hitler did. And I don't think any Australian and "anti-boater" does either.

Maybe you should think about what the people who run this country desire for us; they're not exactly benign forces either. The people who ridicule the supposed xenophobes and "white trash" (a term you love and use so contemptuously all the time) disgust me to a great extent at times.[/quote]
More to the point... Maybe we should all think why it is that people who run this country think the way they do. Our politicians reflect back at us what they believe we are projecting.


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I do. That doesn't necessarily mean that I desire the same thing as Hitler did. And I don't think any Australian and "anti-boater" does either.

And neither did 99% of 1920's Germans who were sick of Jews, I'd bet... And yet...

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And neither did 99% of 1920's Germans who were sick of Jews, I'd bet... And yet...

Should have paid more attention. The agenda of the Nazis was fairly obvious; explicit, in fact.

I try not to make inferences too distantly from what people say and make personally clear. Saying that journalists, pundits and politicians like Steve Sailer et al have sinister motives, on the magnitude of those of a certain German dictator, just from having a "really bad feeling about them", or misrepresenting or disfiguring their actual statements into grotesque travesties of themselves, appears to be nothing more to me (not specifically referring to you) than a deliberate attempt to shut down and defame anybody who disagrees with a certain political and philosophical orthodoxy. I think it's sick and I'll have no part in it, thank you.

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aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 3:00pm:

Quote: And neither did 99% of 1920's Germans who were sick of Jews, I'd bet... And yet... Should have paid more attention. The agenda of the Nazis was fairly obvious.

The rhetoric of the Nazis was out there (and even that they moderated when expedient)... Few in 1920's Germany believed that a crime unprecedented in thousands of years of human history could have sprung from "good old-fashioned European anti-Semitism"


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I try not to make inferences too distantly from what people say and make personally clear. Saying that journalists, pundits and politicians like Steve Sailer et al have sinister motives, on the magnitude of those of a certain German dictator, just from having a "really bad feeling about them" appears to be nothing more to me (not specifically referring to you) than a deliberate attempt to shut down and defame anybody who disagrees with a certain political and philosophical orthodoxy. I think it's sick and I'll have no part in it, thank you.

My point is that our acts of omission and commission, born of what we fear, have undesirable consequences beyond that which we would intend or, more to the point, can control.

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My point is that our acts of omission and commission, born of what we fear, have undesirable consequences beyond that which we would intend.

I don't dispute that at all. Every view we hold, and every statement we make (especially as we are prone as human beings to comment on things that are vastly beyond our comprehension or personal knowledge) have both negative and positive consequences.

Though given how little we all actually know, the negatives usually outweigh the positives by a wide margin.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 3:15pm:

Quote: My point is that our acts of omission and commission, born of what we fear, have undesirable consequences beyond that which we would intend. I don't dispute that at all. Every view we hold, and every statement we make (especially as we are prone as human beings to comment on things that are vastly beyond our comprehension or personal knowledge) has both negative and positive consequences.

All the more more incumbent on us then to be sure we do not project our personal fears, lest they be misused by those among us who crave personal power before the greater good.

Is anybody else having problems with the OzPol site dropping out a lot today?

There's always a risk there though; in that our fears and anxieties may in fact be urgent and legitimate, and thus warranting of a seeing to. Whether you are entirely right, or I am entirely right, or we're both a little bit right or both entirely wrong, whatever route that we take is inevitably going to result in us being bombarded by a host of trifling as well as severe problems.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 3:32pm:

There's always a risk there though; in that our fears and anxieties may in fact be urgent and legitimate

Name them... Your urgent fears (or those things that require immediate remediation to restore your sense of ontological security), such that they require national attention... Would one of them really be - boats arriving from Indonesia or non-white immigration?

All politicians need platforms - a soap box - upon which they reflect back at us what we're sometimes only vaguely aware we have projected. Their rhetoric is often dangerous in that it can give legitimacy to radical or (in case of the boat people issue) 19th century solutions to 21st century problems.

I'm not afraid of the boat people, no. I'm not sure "afraid" is the word I would use to describe my sentiments on non-white immigration either.

If I lived in the United States, yes, I would have a sense of fear for the potential (and, current, palpable) implications of its totally self-destructive, suicidal, immigration policy. If I lived in Europe, particularly, a country like France, yes, I would "fear" what the future of my country would look like under a Muslim majority population, or even a sizable Muslim minority. I don't think even you would disagree with the last one. Australia's situation is more complicated and I feel may require deeper investigation before I can make any (proper) moderately strong statements on it, in one way or another.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 3:49pm:

I'm not afraid of the boat people, no. I'm not sure "afraid" is the word I would use to describe my sentiments on non-white immigration either.

And it's in those moments when we're verbalising (intellectualising) our fears, or what we mean by them, that certain politicians intuit what really drives our insecurities, transforming them into a platform... Hence "I will stop the boats".

The whole boat people situation has provided a convenient niche for politicians who want to appear tough and appeal to anti-immigration sentiments, without actually opposing the bulk of immigration. It's a precarious tight-rope walk between the bogans and our corporate overlords (who always have an insatible thirst for immigrants).