Does this simply mean if
Labor say yes
Liberal say no

The 2-3 seats of the  in the senate Greens decide if the legislation passes through.

And if that is the case how come Rudd couldn't get the ETS through with support from the greens and his own party?

The majority have already decided, the important thing now is for a coin-operated Gillard to know when her puppeteers are risking her own reputation to serve themselves.

...  I know for a fact, she herself knows how risky this would be.

... But, if she insists...

May the better man or woman win.

You know, I think I dislike Bill now more than ever, that's 2 lives he's stuffed in one term.

8-)..It comes down to principle.

no, it will probably come down to a legal decision by the High Court. If they don't do that, or even if they do, it will probably come down to a fight. Great. Bring it on.

Guys was after definitions not party lines but go on! :D

Rudd's gone, so is the ETS; Gillard is gone, she's at the ATM doing an EFT. Savvy?

No wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 2:57am:

Does this simply mean if Labor say yes Liberal say no The 2-3 seats of the  in the senate Greens decide if the legislation passes through. And if that is the case how come Rudd couldn't get the ETS through with support from the greens and his own party?

Not exactly. I think one leader must go to the governer general and say I have control of the lower house, I am the PM. So they need to negotiate with the Greens and independents before then. We can't have both major parties alternating the leadership. So there will be some very difficult negotiations in the coming days, out of which will come our government, which will only hold onto power if they can maintain whatever coalition they form.

Adam Bandt and Andrew Wilkie will side with Labor, while Tony Windsor, Robert Oakeshott and Bob Katter will side with the Coalition. That gives Labor plus 2 and the Coalition plus 3 on their projected seats of 72 and 73 respectively. So the Coalition will be able to govern with 76. The only thing that can change that is if Labor somehow woo two of the ex-Nat independents. Apparently that's somewhat possible because they each hold a grudge against the Nationals. But I think their constituents would be very angry if they help Labor form government. The types of voters who vote for an ex-Nat would not want a Labor government. So the balance of power tips in favour of the Coalition as far as I can tell.

I'm not sure whether Windsor, Oakeshott and Katter will side with the Coalition. There has been a lot of animosity between a couple of them and the Nationals.

The Independents have all virtually said that in the 12 years under the Coalition, nothing was done for the farmers. In Labor's 3 years - the same has occurred but there could be some hope there as they've only had one term to prove themselves.

Wasn't the bush promised a good internet service by the coalition around the time Telstra was divided up and being sold? That never happened.

mantra wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 10:45am:

I'm not sure whether Windsor, Oakeshott and Katter will side with the Coalition. There has been a lot of animosity between a couple of them and the Nationals. The Independents have all virtually said that in the 12 years under the Coalition, nothing was done for the farmers. In Labor's 3 years - the same has occurred but there could be some hope there as they've only had one term to prove themselves. Wasn't the bush promised a good internet service by the coalition around the time Telstra was divided up and being sold? That never happened.

Good points, Mantra - and there is a lot of bad blood due to the contempt with which the LNP have treated these Independents in the past...

These Independents have won their seats on a platform of independence (obviously) and integrity - and there is so much mutual distrust with the LNP that these Independents won't be easily bought-off by cynical and tokenistic LNP carrots...

Certainly, they'll not readily grasp an LNP olive branch - and it would be unrealistic to expect that all (if any) of them would gain a Ministry...

Well I personally think that all those who are saying the current seat projections are not going to change, are getting ahead of themselves, with so many seats so close, I know that parties will be searching frantically for any inconsistencies they might find, and that could see potential legal action in some seats.

It is far from a settled result, just yet.

If we cannot get an agreement between the independents, and the major parties, we may be doing this all again sooner than we think.

mantra wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 10:45am:

I'm not sure whether Windsor, Oakeshott and Katter will side with the Coalition. There has been a lot of animosity between a couple of them and the Nationals.

BOB KATTER JNR - KENNEDY

He is a climate change sceptic and has been an opponent against enacting legislations to control emissions. "I mean, if you could imagine 20 or 30 crocodiles up there on the roof, and if all that roof was illumination, and saying that we wouldn't see anything in this room because of a few croco-roaches up there," he continued stating that "Are you telling me seriously that the world is going to warm because there's 400 parts per million of CO2 up there?"


Can you see Katter siding with an ETS believing Labor???

There is one thing for sure (other than the hilarious spectacle of Labor kicked out of office after one term) - and that is a carbon scheme is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!!!

Good times!!!!

Well done Tony!

I think we'll have another election within 3 months.

Any government formed will be too unstable.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 10:59am:

I think we'll have another election within 3 months. Any government formed will be too unstable.

Bobby we've got a Conservative minority Government in Britain right now and it's proving to be a damn sight better for people than the majority Labour Government it replaced!!!

No sign of an election in the UK and it's been well over 3 months now.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 10:59am:

mantra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 10:45am: I'm not sure whether Windsor, Oakeshott and Katter will side with the Coalition. There has been a lot of animosity between a couple of them and the Nationals. BOB KATTER JNR - KENNEDY Can you see Katter siding with an ETS believing Labor??? There is one thing for sure (other than the hilarious spectacle of Labor kicked out of office after one term) - and that is a carbon scheme is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!!! Good times!!!! Well done Tony!

Don't be too confident just yet Andrei.


Quote:

Mr Katter also pointed out today that Nationals leader Warren Truss had attacked him personally on election night. “Warren Truss was the leader and he attacked me personally last night,” Mr Katter said. “And Barnaby Joyce, in a similar piece of incredible unfortunateness.” Mr Katter said improving the ethanol industry and broadband infrastructure were high on his agenda. “A privatised broadband, I mean, please, don't even talk about it, privatised Telstra has been absolutely disastrous for rural Australia,” he said. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/barnaby-joyce-urges-independent-mps-to-make-quick-decision-on-forming-government/story-fn59niix-1225908429310

I think he means privatised wireless.

Oh well, looks like there will be more handouts for farmers, whoever wins.

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 11:48am:

Oh well, looks like there will be more handouts for farmers, whoever wins.

Given the farming community along with the miners, drives Australia.

I am not sure I see that as a bad thing.

I am very much a city person, always have been, but the Nationals win so much support out in places there for a reason.

I'm not sure all farmers get handouts, but it is the FTA which appears to affect many of them (and of course drought).

Our exports are subject to tariffs, but many of our agricultural imports from the US and China aren't.

There doesn't seem that much we can do about either of the above.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 11:01am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 10:59am: I think we'll have another election within 3 months. Any government formed will be too unstable. Bobby we've got a Conservative minority Government in Britain right now and it's proving to be a damn sight better for people than the majority Labour Government it replaced!!! No sign of an election in the UK and it's been well over 3 months now.

Hi Andrei,
I hope Abbott can do the same.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 11:50am:

freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 11:48am: Oh well, looks like there will be more handouts for farmers, whoever wins. Given the farming community along with the miners, drives Australia. I am not sure I see that as a bad thing. I am very much a city person, always have been, but the Nationals win so much support out in places there for a reason.

Farming no longer drives this country. If anything they are becoming parasitic. This country has a strong emotional connection to rural australia, but the reality is quite different. Unfoprtunately in politics we tend to be guided by that emotional connection. Farmers and politicians milk it for all it's worth. They feel no shame in demanding that Australians pay more for our food so that they don't have to change the way they do things, so that they can continue running a business the same way their ancestors did 100 years ago.

The nationals do well out there for one reason - self interest.

FYI, peoples: this arvo's special post-election edition of the Drum has just started on ABC24...

FYI...Tony Abbott is conducting a press conference on ABC24 right now...

Equitist wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 3:54pm:

FYI...Tony Abbott is conducting a press conference on ABC24 right now...

Well, that was quick - and rude!

About 3 minutes - and very evasive - before he just abruptly turned around and took off...

Not looking very statesmanlike!!!