In accordance with Viktor Frankl, the founder of the third Vienna school of Psychoanalysis, there are three way of achieving the meaning in the life:

1.      By loving someone
2.      By creative work
3.      By meaningful abiding


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy

Logotherapy was developed by neurologist and psychiatrist Viktor Frankl. It is considered the "Third Viennese School of Psychotherapy"[1] after Freud's psychoanalysis and Adler's individual psychology. It is a type of existentialist analysis that focuses on a will to meaning as opposed to Adler's Nietzschean doctrine of will to power or Freud's will to pleasure. Rather than power or pleasure, logotherapy is founded upon the belief that it is the striving to find a meaning in one's life that is the primary, most powerful motivating and driving force in humans. A short introduction to this system is given in Frankl's most famous book, Man's Search for Meaning, in which he outlines how his theories helped him to survive his Holocaust experience and how that experience further developed and reinforced his theories.

The notion of Logotherapy was created with the Greek word logos  ("meaning"). Frankl’s concept is based on the premise that the primary motivational force of an individual is to find a meaning in life. The following list of tenets represents the basic principles of logotherapy:

   * Life has meaning under all circumstances, even the most miserable ones.
   * Our main motivation for living is our will to find meaning in life.
   * We have freedom to find meaning in what we do, and what we experience, or at least in the stand we take when faced with a situation of unchangeable suffering.

The human spirit is referred to in several of the assumptions of logotherapy, but the use of the term spirit is not "spiritual" or "religious". In Frankl's view, the spirit is the will of the human being. The emphasis, therefore, is on the search for meaning, which is not necessarily the search for God or any other supernaturalbeing.
Frankl also noted the barriers to humanity's quest for meaning in life. He warns against

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EIxGrIc_6g&feature=related

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/bestsellers-2006/860-1.jpg



I could be wrong but my brief understanding of his theory is as follows:

Victor Frankle discovered unexpected phenomena when compared Holocaust survives and Vietnam war veterans.
The majority of Concentration camps surveyors were living normal long lives without signs of post traumas in spite of the fact that, they, as victims, experienced all sort of horrific situations.
On the other hand large number of Vietnam war veterans had relatively high percentage of post traumatic disorders, suicides and other mental problems.
Basicly Victor Frankl concluded that if the victimized person managed to find meaning in his suffering then he actually transforms from the victim to a hero and turn his tragedy in to personal triumph.
Consequently it means that in the most miserable situations in life human can withstand suffering if he finds the meaning in it.

T = S - M

T - Tragedy
S = Suffering
M = Meaning

"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing; the last of the human freedoms—to choose one's attitude"
Victor Frankl

Soren wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 11:28am:

"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing; the last of the human freedoms—to choose one's attitude" Victor Frankl

Man's Search for Meaning is an incredible book. it recounts Frankl's development of logotherapy during his time in a concentration camp and it's a very powerful story. i'd recommend it to pretty much anyone, actually. i'd especially recommend it for those who are philosophically inclined or those who may be depressed or dissatisfied with their life (or as Frankl puts it, experiencing "existential suffering").
Really great man and psychologist Victor Frankl.

The meaning of life:

1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.
2. the sum of the distinguishing phenomena of organisms, esp. metabolism, growth, reproduction, and adaptation to environment.
3. the animate existence or period of animate existence of an individual: to risk one's life; a short life and a merry one.
4. a corresponding state, existence, or principle of existence conceived of as belonging to the soul: eternal life.
5. the general or universal condition of human existence: Too bad, but life is like that.

6. 42 (according to Douglas Adams)

the meaning of life is manifesting thought

I'm sure it's 42...

The comparison between holocaust survivors and vietnam vets is interesting, and I think it could be pretty easily summed up as being attributable to guilt, and innocence.

The Viet vets know on some level, that what they were involved in was wrong, stupid, and dirty, and if they fail to associate the blame for their involvement with evil and corrupt politicians, and internalise the guilt, well they will be pretty much ferked.

The same thing is going to happen post Iraq Afghanistan for many, it is unfortunate to see history repeating it's worst mistakes.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 16^th, 2010 at 7:48am:

The comparison between holocaust survivors and vietnam vets is interesting, and I think it could be pretty easily summed up as being attributable to guilt, and innocence. The Viet vets know on some level, that what they were involved in was wrong, stupid, and dirty, and if they fail to associate the blame for their involvement with evil and corrupt politicians, and internalise the guilt, well they will be pretty much ferked. The same thing is going to happen post Iraq Afghanistan for many, it is unfortunate to see history repeating it's worst mistakes.

I guess you are right. It’s difficult to find meaning in going thousand kilometers away from your country to kill innocent people who you’ve newer seen in your life.
Some of Vietnam war veterans from USA and Australia are involved in charity work in Vietnam that will help them to heal their post traumatic disorders.
http://www.vietnamfriendship.org/fmn.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/24/us/veterans-returning-to-vietnam-to-end-a-haunting.html

See especially 2.06 to 2.42.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnLMs8J_KTo&feature=related

Gosh .. just read through this topic .. very impressive stuff!

"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing; the last of the human freedoms—to choose one's attitude"
Victor Frankl


- posted earlier by Soren

A profoundly true and worthy statement!

Why does Human Life have a meaning to be discovered and not all life? What makes the human 'special' in this regard?

Sappho wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 7:21pm:

Why does Human Life have a meaning to be discovered and not all life? What makes the human 'special' in this regard?

the thinking. and the articulation of the thinking.

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 7:44pm:

Sappho wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 7:21pm: Why does Human Life have a meaning to be discovered and not all life? What makes the human 'special' in this regard? the thinking. and the articulation of the thinking.

Oh... I understand... the meaning of life has nothing to do with life and everything to do with thinking.

So um... what's the meaning of thinking then? Why is human thinking and its articulation more 'special' in this regard?

Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?"

That for which you are prepared to suffer
Is that which defines your life's meaning.

Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?"

That for which you are prepared to suffer
Is that which defines your life's meaning.

- Helian

Oooh now you've got me thinking .. VERY well said!

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 8:56pm:

Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?" That for which you are prepared to suffer Is that which defines your life's meaning. - Helian Oooh now you've got me thinking .. VERY well said!

More and more in the west people are also recognizing EQ but in particular SQ (Spiritual intelligence).

Spiritual Intelligence
Definitions

  1. Spiritual Intelligence is the ultimate intelligence which we address and solve problems of meaning and value, the intelligence with which we can place our actions and our lives in a wider, richer, meaning-giving context, the intelligence with which we can assess that one course of action or one life path is more meaningful than another (Zohar & Marshall).
  2. Spiritual Intelligence is not necessarily religious or even dependent upon religion as its foundation. It can be defined against or observed through some telling criteria such as: truthfulness, compassion, respect for all levels of consciousness, constructive empathy, a sense of being a player in a large whole, generosity of spirit and action, a seeking of being 'in tune' with or 'in synch' with nature of the universe, and being comfortable with being alone without being lonely (Clive Simpkins).
  3. Those who have Spiritual Intelligence: have the capacity for transcendence; have heightened consciousness; have the capacity to endow everyday activity with a sense of the sacred; use spiritual resources on practical problems; engage in virtuous behaviour (forgiveness, gratitude, humility, compassion and wisdom (Robert A. Emmons).
  4. The characteristics of Spiritual Intelligence are: awareness of others; wonder, awe, a sense of the numinous (astronomy, microbiology, cosmology); wisdom (proverbs, sages); perspective, ability to listen: "Be still and know that I am God"; comfort with chaos, dichotomy, paradox; commitment, dedication, faith; holds the promise or hope fulfilment (Illini Christian Faculty).
  5. Spiritual Intelligence is the ultimate way of knowing. We use it to envision unrealized possibilities and to transcend the methodical plod of life. We use it also to understand pain, to answer the basic philosophical questions about life and to find meaning both temporally and existentially (Cynthia R. Davis).

There is no meaning to life itself.
The only thing which does have meaning is the  realisation that
we as humans are actually manifestations of a Universe able
to look upon itself.
This implies that the universe has consciousness via us
or any other intelligent beings - who may be out there.

The meaning of life will be whatever the individual wants it to be. No, this isn't a 'feelgood' description, rather, people will find purpose in the smallest or superfluous things just to stave off existential anxiety.  

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 8:46pm:

Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?" That for which you are prepared to suffer Is that which defines your life's meaning.

Not bad, not bad at all.

Wow .. some very insightful posts happening in here tonight.

You've all got me thinking hard again lol :)

Sappho wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 7:21pm:

Why does Human Life have a meaning to be discovered and not all life? What makes the human 'special' in this regard?

How do you know that all other life doesn't ponder the meaning of life too????

Just because we can't ask them, doesn't mean they don't....

post deleted

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 10:35pm:

The meaning of life will be whatever the individual wants it to be. No, this isn't a 'feelgood' description, rather, people will find purpose in the smallest or superfluous things just to stave off existential anxiety.

That’s exactly what Ivan Frankl said. The meaning of our life has to be figured out by each of us.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 8:46pm:

Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?" That for which you are prepared to suffer Is that which defines your life's meaning.

That affords meaningful 'meaning' to the very few Helian... to the De Sades, the Voltaires, the Adam Smiths, the Galileos etc...

But for the rest of us, the answer to that question is merely to sacrifice for our genetic heritage. In other words, most of us would sacrifice our life to save the life of our children.

So the continuance of DNA is the meaning of life for the bulk of humanity... and every other bloody species on this planet. How enlightening.... not!

Otherwise... it sounds pretty in a shallow kind of way... no wonder the others are suckered by it.

Now Soren on the other hand... he has addressed something that could actually have merit. He would say that it is Human thinking and its expression that gives meaning to Human life. There is something intrinsically meaningful in the act of thinking for Soren, but what that is... and how it differs from other thinking in other species that makes human thought intrinsically meaningful and others not.... is yet to be addressed.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 7:48am:

Sappho wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 7:21pm: Why does Human Life have a meaning to be discovered and not all life? What makes the human 'special' in this regard? How do you know that all other life doesn't ponder the meaning of life too???? Just because we can't ask them, doesn't mean they don't....

You are asking the wrong person Gizmo... comprehension that has let you down. It is Soren to whom I address my questions and to whom you should have addressed yours.

Sappho wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 1:52pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 7:48am: Sappho wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 7:21pm: Why does Human Life have a meaning to be discovered and not all life? What makes the human 'special' in this regard? How do you know that all other life doesn't ponder the meaning of life too???? Just because we can't ask them, doesn't mean they don't.... You are asking the wrong person Gizmo... comprehension that has let you down. It is Soren to whom I address my questions and to whom you should have addressed yours.

Are you sure...looked like your post....
'reply #12, 7.21pm yesterday'???

Quote:

[quote][quote]How do you know that all other life doesn't ponder the meaning of life too???? Just because we can't ask them, doesn't mean they don't....

You are asking the wrong person Gizmo... comprehension that has let you down. It is Soren to whom I address my questions and to whom you should have addressed yours. [/quote]
Are you sure...looked like your post....[/quote]

Maybe if you didn't take it out of context, as you did, you would not be so confused about who said what to whom, as you are. Moreover, you treat my questions as though they are statements of opinion and they are not. They are definitely questions, asked as questions and using all the conventions of grammar required of questions. How you manage to glean some kind of opinion from a question is beyond me.

Here is the full post, found at the bottom of page one, from which you took one quote of mine then assumed a universe of possibilities.  


Sappho wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 8:42pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 7:44pm: Sappho wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 7:21pm: Why does Human Life have a meaning to be discovered and not all life? What makes the human 'special' in this regard? the thinking. and the articulation of the thinking. Oh... I understand... the meaning of life has nothing to do with life and everything to do with thinking. So um... what's the meaning of thinking then? Why is human thinking and its articulation more 'special' in this regard?

Is it clear to you now what is going on? If not, please explain what difficulties, specifically, you are having with English comprehension and I will try and assist.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 10:35pm:

The meaning of life will be whatever the individual wants it to be. No, this isn't a 'feelgood' description, rather, people will find purpose in the smallest or superfluous things just to stave off existential anxiety.

Nothing like a bit of existential futility in life to cause the hoards to run in the direction of self denial and build meaning stored in a house of cards.

the meaning of this life?

this experience in the 3rd

order of density dimension in the state of duality?

is to do that which would bring you joy

so be it

namaste

-:)

Sappho wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 3:29pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 10:35pm: The meaning of life will be whatever the individual wants it to be. No, this isn't a 'feelgood' description, rather, people will find purpose in the smallest or superfluous things just to stave off existential anxiety.   Nothing like a bit of existential futility in life to cause the hoards to run in the direction of self denial and build meaning stored in a house of cards.

Yes, it's amazing the coping mechanisms people construct to deal with their insecurities.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 4:21pm:

Sappho wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 3:29pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 10:35pm: The meaning of life will be whatever the individual wants it to be. No, this isn't a 'feelgood' description, rather, people will find purpose in the smallest or superfluous things just to stave off existential anxiety.   Nothing like a bit of existential futility in life to cause the hoards to run in the direction of self denial and build meaning stored in a house of cards. Yes, it's amazing the coping mechanisms people construct to deal with their insecurities.

'copying mechanisms?' I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Sappho wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 4:24pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:21pm: Sappho wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 3:29pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 10:35pm: The meaning of life will be whatever the individual wants it to be. No, this isn't a 'feelgood' description, rather, people will find purpose in the smallest or superfluous things just to stave off existential anxiety.   Nothing like a bit of existential futility in life to cause the hoards to run in the direction of self denial and build meaning stored in a house of cards. Yes, it's amazing the coping mechanisms people construct to deal with their insecurities. 'copying mechanisms?' I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Coping, not copying.

To escape harsh realities some will flee into the transcendent.

Others will say "everything happens for a reason". That one always gives me a laugh.

'Meaning' is a human term. Other species have life - only we have meaning.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 4:30pm:

Sappho wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:24pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:21pm: Sappho wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 3:29pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 10:35pm: The meaning of life will be whatever the individual wants it to be. No, this isn't a 'feelgood' description, rather, people will find purpose in the smallest or superfluous things just to stave off existential anxiety.   Nothing like a bit of existential futility in life to cause the hoards to run in the direction of self denial and build meaning stored in a house of cards. Yes, it's amazing the coping mechanisms people construct to deal with their insecurities. 'copying mechanisms?' I'm not quite sure what you mean. Coping, not copying. To escape harsh realities some will flee into the transcendent.

Ah yes... sorry about that. Completely agree. Transcendence is the promise of meaning and eternity and so serves as a very nice pacifier.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 8:46pm:

Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?" That for which you are prepared to suffer Is that which defines your life's meaning.

My 9 year old is completely unwilling to suffer, let alone bleed, for anything. Does that make his life meaningless?

:'(

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 4:32pm:

Others will say "everything happens for a reason". That one always gives me a laugh.

Hmmm.... they are not necessarily wrong in their claim, given cause and effect.

Soren wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 4:39pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 8:46pm: Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?" That for which you are prepared to suffer Is that which defines your life's meaning. My 9 year old is completely unwilling to suffer, let alone bleed, for anything. Does that make his life meaningless? :'(

Why don't you ask him.

For what would his father suffer and bleed?

Others will say "everything happens for a reason". That one always gives me a laugh.

___________________

because truth is laughable to your belief system?

'Meaning' is a human term. Other species have life - only we have meaning.

____________

other species have life?

what is life without meaning?

if your existence here is to experience this 3rd dimension

as a taxable asset and bloodbag,if this brings you joy,so be it.

if another would seek to expand his/her consciousness and discern

meaning from this,derive truth.

these dear ones are lost if they not apply apathy?

should these ones just pay tax and be robbed by elites?

if this brings you comfort so be it.

do not be discomforted that many millions now see what they

did not before -:)

and so it is

Ah yes... sorry about that. Completely agree. Transcendence is the promise of meaning and eternity and so serves as a very nice pacifier.

_____________

i would suggest that with self loathing many seek to bring everyones

expectations in line with their hopelessness.

this is not the true nature of what is happening on your world.

many great things are happening with grace and for the good of all.

you are simply experiencing the birth pangs of what is about to

manifest upon your dear mother earth.

it is for you to experience this ascension process as this linear time

aspect you currently reside in is about to transmute to the higher

dimensions

does this comfort you?

are you ready for these ever increasing energies that do come forth

and assist in raising your individual ViBrAtIoN?

enjoy -:)

Sappho wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 4:39pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:32pm: Others will say "everything happens for a reason". That one always gives me a laugh. Hmmm.... they are not necessarily wrong in their claim, given cause and effect.

That's one way of looking at it.
I was thinking, though, in regards to those who think there's some kind of divine plan or some new age mystical spirit driving all behaviour. It's kind of a 'feelgood'  way of dealing with things that don't go their way.

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 4:12am:

Others will say "everything happens for a reason". That one always gives me a laugh. ___________________ because truth is laughable to your belief system?

No. It's a contemptuous laugh.

athos wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 10:12am:

That’s exactly what Ivan Frankl said. The meaning of our life has to be figured out by each of us.

OK, that's fine from the point of view of one person.

Is there such a thing as a collective meaning of life?

Does life only have meaning from the point of view of an individual? What about those things that concern the survival of the gene or the species?

If people have shared concepts on what makes life meaningful, should these somehow take precidence over personal aspects?

What is the significance of having a meaning in life if it's harmful to other people for example ?

Let's suppose that the thing that really gives meaning in life to one person's life is anathema to another person.  Right 'Eric' has  thought about it deeply and contemplated his navel and made lots of ooom noises, and finally decided that Midget bowling is his raison d'être.

Now a midget might have a problem with Eric exercising the right to find meaning in his life.


Quote:

this experience in the 3rd order of density dimension in the state of duality? is to do that which would bring you joy

Eric's joy comes from bowling midgets.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_6nbPzHvZZQw/SHYBotk1tZI/AAAAAAAAABI/dugT7b6oqm0/s400/midget-bowling2.jpg

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 10:05am:

Sappho wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:39pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:32pm: Others will say "everything happens for a reason". That one always gives me a laugh. Hmmm.... they are not necessarily wrong in their claim, given cause and effect. That's one way of looking at it. I was thinking, though, in regards to those who think there's some kind of divine plan or some new age mystical spirit driving all behaviour. It's kind of a 'feelgood'  way of dealing with things that don't go their way.

Yeah... again, they are starting to link that kind of stuff into quantum happenings. Who knows... it's all too wishy washy for my tastes. And anyways... I have no problem saying... "I don't know and I suspect most if not all don't know either. I shall wait and see what happens at death. Meanwhile, I'll subscribe no meaning to life, merely live it and learn it well doing what I can to increase the pleasure of those I influence whilst reducing the suffering in same."

muso wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 10:45am:

athos wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 10:12am: That’s exactly what Ivan Frankl said. The meaning of our life has to be figured out by each of us. OK, that's fine from the point of view of one person. Is there such a thing as a collective meaning of life? Does life only have meaning from the point of view of an individual? What about those things that concern the survival of the gene or the species? If people have shared concepts on what makes life meaningful, should these somehow take precidence over personal aspects? What is the significance of having a meaning in life if it's harmful to other people for example ? Let's suppose that the thing that really gives meaning in life to one person's life is anathema to another person.  Right 'Eric' has  thought about it deeply and contemplated his navel and made lots of ooom noises, and finally decided that Midget bowling is his raison d'être. Now a midget might have a problem with Eric exercising the right to find meaning in his life. Quote: this experience in the 3rd order of density dimension in the state of duality? is to do that which would bring you joy Eric's joy comes from bowling midgets. http://bp3.blogger.com/_6nbPzHvZZQw/SHYBotk1tZI/AAAAAAAAABI/dugT7b6oqm0/s400/midget-bowling2.jpg

This is one of the contradictions of liberal theory; that it places the individual above the collective but still maintains a basic application of the "harm principle" enshrined in law. That is, the individual can't do what it wants when it wants regardless of any 'individual rights' rhetoric.

It's an interesting question you pose of "can there be a collective meaning of life?" Metaphysical absolutes no longer have any tenable grounding, so I would say that they have little grounding beyond pragmatism. Shared interests based on mutual benefit seems to be the only reasonable way to base a collective meaning.

Sappho wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 2:04pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 1st, 2010 at 10:05am: Sappho wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:39pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:32pm: Others will say "everything happens for a reason". That one always gives me a laugh. Hmmm.... they are not necessarily wrong in their claim, given cause and effect. That's one way of looking at it. I was thinking, though, in regards to those who think there's some kind of divine plan or some new age mystical spirit driving all behaviour. It's kind of a 'feelgood'  way of dealing with things that don't go their way. Yeah... again, they are starting to link that kind of stuff into quantum happenings. Who knows... it's all too wishy washy for my tastes. And anyways... I have no problem saying... "I don't know and I suspect most if not all don't know either. I shall wait and see what happens at death. Meanwhile, I'll subscribe no meaning to life, merely live it and learn it well doing what I can to increase the pleasure of those I influence whilst reducing the suffering in same."

I'll have to read up on quantum stuff then.

yes do that

learn about max plank length theory

and the fibonacci sequence facts

those that do not have the care are not abliged to listen

namaste

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtPdc-aUcRo&feature=sub

http://lightworkers.org/channeling/115590/st-germain-and-hilarion-feel-new-energies-within



I welcome myself to your presence - those who will read or feel this.

You understand we vary standard English grammar to assist in transmitting the real feeling and meaning of the words, as outside of 3D, thinking and communicating are more buoyant and without much of the struggle feeling of 3D world.

In 3D, you must be this or that.

outside of 3D, we are everything, are we not?

and can be anything??

The channel inwardly asked what physical beings on earth at this time can do to ease their transition in a way that actually encourages opening and contributes to continual and deeper awakening.

First,

I recommend the word WAIT.

WAIT.

don't do anything.

don't do anything.

stop.

stop.

At that point you may find, feel that part of the greater reality and freedom that you seek is there vibrating inside of you or inside of your spine, even now!

We cannot assume that partial schism between each persons physical and non-physical light selves precludes the reality that new energies are entering anyway.

So we seek to become aware.

Now, you may begin to feel a blending an alchemy of the physical and non-physical energies.

Much is going on behind the screen of the mind.

gently waiting, and stopping assists us to step behind the screen of that which we know and register.

Now we are within!

here we may feel an expanded sense of our own being.

This we call the rhythm and vibration of ourself.

follow this rhythm!

Follow this vibration!

Open to the all through this vibration within you.

Then you know you are getting an alchemy that truly speaks of going within to go out, and in this way avoiding the pitfall of abandoning your own resonation.

For if we cannot bear (wear) our own resonation than we will have difficulty transforming our own substance by the use of our own energy and light.

We may need rest occasionally, but the push is on to join with our complete self in this ascension cycle.

Yes be expectant!

But also remember, expect these changing realities to be registered by you right in your very self.

This registration is part of what we call awakening!

Yours,

As Always,

St. Germain and Hilarion

-:)

muso wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 10:45am:

athos wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 10:12am: That’s exactly what Ivan Frankl said. The meaning of our life has to be figured out by each of us. OK, that's fine from the point of view of one person. Is there such a thing as a collective meaning of life? Does life only have meaning from the point of view of an individual? What about those things that concern the survival of the gene or the species? If people have shared concepts on what makes life meaningful, should these somehow take precidence over personal aspects? What is the significance of having a meaning in life if it's harmful to other people for example ?

Does the 'collective' have a pov? No. Its pov is attributed to it by an individual who, having a pov, can imagine other entities as if they, too, had a pov. ( The idea of a personal god is a projection in this sense.)

Hence your questions about the survival of genes an species. These have no meaning of their own because they have no sense of 'self' and hence no pov that could formulate 'meaning'. Chesterton's quip applies here: those who stopped believing in god do not believe in 'nothing' - they believe in anything (such as the interests of genes).


The 'Eric' example is just silly. You don't need midget-tossing to introduce the idea of competing interests.

Hence your questions about the survival of genes an species. These have no meaning of their own because they have no sense of 'self' and hence no pov that could formulate 'meaning'.

__________

genes and dna replicate do they not?

to a certain frequency invoked from the observer/the one experiencing

their individual experience.

these have a memory and replicate that which you do create

knowing or unknowingly this is the case.

so when you realize this you may have the care to actively

invoke that which would bring you comfort and joy

and so it is

namaste

-:)

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 5:38pm:

Hence your questions about the survival of genes an species. These have no meaning of their own because they have no sense of 'self' and hence no pov that could formulate 'meaning'. __________ genes and dna replicate do they not? to a certain frequency invoked from the observer/the one experiencing their individual experience. these have a memory and replicate that which you do create knowing or unknowingly this is the case. so when you realize this you may have the care to actively invoke that which would bring you comfort and joy and so it is namaste -:)

Never mind discovering the meaning of life ....  We have a more immediate puzzle with the above post.

muso wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 10:45am:

athos wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 10:12am: That’s exactly what Ivan Frankl said. The meaning of our life has to be figured out by each of us. OK, that's fine from the point of view of one person. Is there such a thing as a collective meaning of life? Does life only have meaning from the point of view of an individual? What about those things that concern the survival of the gene or the species? If people have shared concepts on what makes life meaningful, should these somehow take precidence over personal aspects? What is the significance of having a meaning in life if it's harmful to other people for example ? Let's suppose that the thing that really gives meaning in life to one person's life is anathema to another person.  Right 'Eric' has  thought about it deeply and contemplated his navel and made lots of ooom noises, and finally decided that Midget bowling is his raison d'être. Now a midget might have a problem with Eric exercising the right to find meaning in his life. Quote: this experience in the 3rd order of density dimension in the state of duality? is to do that which would bring you joy Eric's joy comes from bowling midgets. http://bp3.blogger.com/_6nbPzHvZZQw/SHYBotk1tZI/AAAAAAAAABI/dugT7b6oqm0/s400/midget-bowling2.jpg

I think it’s more likely that good quality and free individuals will make a good democratic society.
Communism tried to make good individuals by creating a good society but it didn’t quite work.

Soren wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 5:34pm:

Does the 'collective' have a pov? No. Its pov is attributed to it by an individual who, having a pov, can imagine other entities as if they, too, had a pov. ( The idea of a personal god is a projection in this sense.)

That's pretty close to what I think.


Quote:

Hence your questions about the survival of genes an species. These have no meaning of their own because they have no sense of 'self' and hence no pov that could formulate 'meaning'. Chesterton's quip applies here: those who stopped believing in god do not believe in 'nothing' - they believe in anything (such as the interests of genes).

Which particular god do they have to believe in to avoid believing in 'anything'?  

Will Lord Ganesha do? - or Tuchulcha?

or will my practice of being a Catholic every Friday (because I enjoy the fish) avoid these particular mauvaises pensées? or would you perhaps propose that I try self flagellation and cold showers?


Quote:

The 'Eric' example is just silly. You don't need midget-tossing to introduce the idea of competing interests.

Silly concepts sometimes make a point. I'd hate to plague you with humour.

I guess if such 'meaning' only has a selfish individualistic implication, is there a place for it?

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 5:26pm:

yes do that learn about max plank length theory

Is that like the two short planks theory ?

Reads back and laughs at Soren's and Muso's posts lol :)

Soren wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 6:45pm:

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 1st, 2010 at 5:38pm: Hence your questions about the survival of genes an species. These have no meaning of their own because they have no sense of 'self' and hence no pov that could formulate 'meaning'. __________ genes and dna replicate do they not? to a certain frequency invoked from the observer/the one experiencing their individual experience. these have a memory and replicate that which you do create knowing or unknowingly this is the case. so when you realize this you may have the care to actively invoke that which would bring you comfort and joy and so it is namaste -:) Never mind discovering the meaning of life ....  We have a more immediate puzzle with the above post.

;D  Well, I'm only on my thrid glass of red, but I do find some meaning within IITL's POV.
Your genes are part of yourself. Although they may have no conscious sense of self as understood with our minds, they do have the ability to remember and react where you are blissfully unaware within your thinking.

Let's say for example: A sector of humans split fom their original tribe and eventually migrated to an entirely different climate and environment which required very different practises in order to survive successfuly.

Within a few short generations, they would be displaying some different charateristics to those of their original tribe.
Over thousands of generations, they would be noticably different in appearance and thinking. And even without interbreeding, they may more resemble those of their current land than their former.

Let's say for example: A sector of humans split from their original tribe and eventually migrated to an entirely different climate and environment which required very different practices in order to survive successfully.

Within a few short generations, they would be displaying some different characteristics to those of their original tribe.
Over thousands of generations, they would be noticeably different in appearance and thinking. And even without interbreeding, they may more resemble those of their current land than their former.

- Amadd


Hmm interesting.

In my particular family/extended family experience .. it's taken just TWO GENERATIONS to see such changes.

A brief outline may assist here ...

Original migrants to Oz came from Greece and Italy back in 1960 .. all sisters and brothers had dark hair, dark eyes and olive skin etc. To this day these family members have retained their original distinct Mediterranean appearance,customs,cultural practices, language, values and other such traditions. The English currently spoken remains heavily accented (in typical ESL fashion).

Fast forward to 2010 .. ALL grandchildren (2nd gen Aussies) have fair to olive skin, blonde hair, blue eyes, Anglo Celtic surnames .. and speak English as their 1st language. Italian and Greek language skills STILL feature but only at 2nd/3rd language level. As such, these skills are now at basic conversational level in terms of competence.

As regards retaining Mediterranean customs/cultural practices, language, values etc .. all that remains is a sense of familiarity thanks to grandparent/grandchild interaction.

Some general history of their grandparent migrant experiences have been imparted through the grandparents and parents .. and as a result all grandchildren presently identify as dinky di Aussies who've had Mediterranean born and bred grandparents and Aussie born and bred parents.

It will be interesting (as a 1st gen Aussie in this scenario) to see what happens at 3rd gen Aussie level lol :)

Regards

Lisa

Soren wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 6:45pm:

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 1st, 2010 at 5:38pm: Hence your questions about the survival of genes an species. These have no meaning of their own because they have no sense of 'self' and hence no pov that could formulate 'meaning'. __________ genes and dna replicate do they not? to a certain frequency invoked from the observer/the one experiencing their individual experience. these have a memory and replicate that which you do create knowing or unknowingly this is the case. so when you realize this you may have the care to actively invoke that which would bring you comfort and joy and so it is namaste -:) Never mind discovering the meaning of life ....  We have a more immediate puzzle with the above post.

Indian Philosophy is challenging, but worth the effort.

Basically he is saying that positive attitudes influence all aspects of your life and that of those around you in positive ways... only he is taking it down into the quantum reality. There is evidence of this... too late for me now to research and link, but science have found that long term mediation has a lasting impact on the brain patterns and chemical balance... producing more (dopimine spell check... chemical check) than in those who do not meditate. Mediation then is proven to promote well being and contentment. Or, in Indian terms, mediation causes you to vibrate at a higher level and so bring you closer to nirvana.

What I noticed whilst travelling Europe was that there seems to be a lot of traditions that are held onto here which seem to have changed over there, in th urban areas anyway.
Maybe I was just noticing a difference between urban and rural dwellers, or maybe it was also to do with traditions that have been handed down here where they have shifted somewhat over there.


I think that physical changes can occur quite quickly depending on environment and practises, but how long that takes to entrench itself into genetics I'm not sure.

During the week I attended a Greek Orthodox funeral (a close friend of the family). He was born here, and by far the majority of his aquaintances were English speaking, so it was a little bemusing as to why he requested a service where a lot of the crowd couldn't understand what was being said.
Jeez, those Greeks just love to listen to themselves don't they  ;D

I think a lot of people went away from the service feeling somewhat insulted in that it didn't reflect them as being part of his life because the service had no relevance to them and their relationship with the person that they knew.
But, if they could understand how people revert back to their earliest memories when they lose their faculties, it was only at this stage when the tough 'ol bugger submitted himself to the reality of passing on.
What he summoned from himself in order to continue to relate and keep giving of himself was truly amazing.
My perception is, that it is yet more food for thought that he has given to me. The words do not matter nearly as much as the feeling conveyed.

I think all races of people like to listen to themselves, hence their devotion to diaryism, be it through biblical text or art..we humans do cherish the concept of our mortality being evident long after we have expired.

8-) Not a race in this world contradicts this narcissistic egocentric fact.


Quote:

I think a lot of people went away from the service feeling somewhat insulted in that it didn't reflect them as being part of his life because the service had no relevance to them and their relationship with the person that they knew.

...

It wasn't supposed to be about you, it was supposed to be about them

.... their experience of life.

8-) Sorry you weren't the centre of attention at someone else's funeral... I mean, how dare they right?

An no, I doubt others took away from this funeral, what you did.

Because most normal balanced people just don't see other peoples funerals, being all about them.

Next time request Karaoke,

Until then....Night.

8-)

Communism tried to make good individuals by creating a good society but it didn’t quite work.

_________

freemasons invented communism

for the people to get behind to oppose the facist idealism.

ying yang much?

they have created this reality you now exist here in the 3rd

order of density dimension in the state of duality

this life is an illusion yes a test to see if when you are cut off from

the divinity the knowing aspect of this within you,

to see if you have the care to rush back to that essence which doth

reside within you.....................................................................

it it the LIGHT

-:)

namaste

enjoy -:)

;D  Well, I'm only on my thrid glass of red, but I do find some meaning within IITL's POV.
Your genes are part of yourself. Although they may have no conscious sense of self as understood with our minds, they do have the ability to remember and react where you are blissfully unaware within your thinking.

Let's say for example: A sector of humans split fom their original tribe and eventually migrated to an entirely different climate and environment which required very different practises in order to survive successfuly.

Within a few short generations, they would be displaying some different charateristics to those of their original tribe.
Over thousands of generations, they would be noticably different in appearance and thinking. And even without interbreeding, they may more resemble those of their current land than their former.

____________

dear one

and so it is

this knowledge and wisdom comes from within you

i honour the LIGHT within you and observe you as sacred

and divine

does this comfort you?

Let's say for example: A sector of humans split from their original tribe and eventually migrated to an entirely different climate and environment which required very different practices in order to survive successfully.

Within a few short generations, they would be displaying some different characteristics to those of their original tribe.
Over thousands of generations, they would be noticeably different in appearance and thinking. And even without interbreeding, they may more resemble those of their current land than their former.

- Amadd


Hmm interesting.

In my particular family/extended family experience .. it's taken just TWO GENERATIONS to see such changes.

A brief outline may assist here ...

Original migrants to Oz came from Greece and Italy back in 1960 .. all sisters and brothers had dark hair, dark eyes and olive skin etc. To this day these family members have retained their original distinct Mediterranean appearance,customs,cultural practices, language, values and other such traditions. The English currently spoken remains heavily accented (in typical ESL fashion).

Fast forward to 2010 .. ALL grandchildren (2nd gen Aussies) have fair to olive skin, blonde hair, blue eyes, Anglo Celtic surnames .. and speak English as their 1st language. Italian and Greek language skills STILL feature but only at 2nd/3rd language level. As such, these skills are now at basic conversational level in terms of competence.

As regards retaining Mediterranean customs/cultural practices, language, values etc .. all that remains is a sense of familiarity thanks to grandparent/grandchild interaction.

Some general history of their grandparent migrant experiences have been imparted through the grandparents and parents .. and as a result all grandchildren presently identify as dinky di Aussies who've had Mediterranean born and bred grandparents and Aussie born and bred parents.

It will be interesting (as a 1st gen Aussie in this scenario) to see what happens at 3rd gen Aussie level lol  

Regards

Lisa

___________

good observation

you have my LOVE always and the LOVE of the higher dimensions

that exist within you

it is the LIGHT

-:)

namaste

Quote:

It wasn't supposed to be about you, it was supposed to be about them .... their experience of life.

Gee smellie, you wouldn't have a clue.
Do you think I expected a personal song and a dance? You have no human perception of the situation, so best you just shut up. Nowonder even your cat wants to leave you.

My point was that I was not insulted by not being included within the majority of his life, but many others were.
The first ten years of his life max. were Greek Orthodox. Other than that, he had no care for religion of any kind.
Greek Orthodox was not his life. His life was his work, friends and family.

I was also alluding to the fact that when one loses their faculties, they revert to their early memories. It happended to you a long time ago smellie.

Indian Philosophy is challenging, but worth the effort.

Basically he is saying that positive attitudes influence all aspects of your life and that of those around you in positive ways... only he is taking it down into the quantum reality. There is evidence of this... too late for me now to research and link, but science have found that long term mediation has a lasting impact on the brain patterns and chemical balance... producing more (dopimine spell check... chemical check) than in those who do not meditate. Mediation then is proven to promote well being and contentment. Or, in Indian terms, mediation causes you to vibrate at a higher level and so bring you closer to nirvana.

___________

cant research yet knows this to be true

and so it is the case dear ones

that when your dna replicates it does so at the command of

the human organism and the frequency ViBrAtIoN that dear one

would reside within at that particular moment within the linear time

aspect attached to the 3rd order of density dimension.

you are that which you create

this is also within as it is the case you shed skin every

night  where does the incoming energies originate from that

would replicate to the tune of trillions of times a second?

the fact is that it does enter this dimension in the microcosm

so at this mathematical equasion

it does manifest

when useing an electron microscope down down down in magnifaction

the equasion

1.6 x 10 to the negative 35th meter

all points of matter lose locality

that is

they become omnipresent.

this is another dimension that you do originate from which why

i may declare factually unto you that yes

you are a multidimensional aspect of GOD.

this is the aspect i speak of when i refer to the state of

duality.

and so it is whether you would have the care to notice this

or watch footy and suck down pies with pig snout and chicken lips

enjoy -:)

namaste

Well, I didn't really want to encourage that crap from IITL, and neither did anybody want to encourage the garbage of the Orthodox priest who hung around like a a putrid bad smell thinking it was all about him and his painful singing that went on foreveer.

No, the loss of faculties of the deceased were understood by the nearest and dearest, but the up himself clown priest thought it was all about him.

Smellie, you have no clue at all. It was not about anybody attending the funeral, it was about a true reflection of his life. The Greek Orthodox thing was way way off the mark.

you have had trouble with priests rfom your past?

yes many many millions have been abused by religious zealots

which are mostly freemasons

jesuits and such

They are all up themselves idiots who devise a continuation of their own sin through a guise of righteousness. That is the only holy path for them.


Prententious beings who want for control beyond their control.

with ignorance and lack of truth

itis within all beings here and now within this current paradigm.

you may now start to,if you have the care,to release your

LIGHT BODY from the physical body

research astral projection travel lucid dreaming

for when you do realize that you only occupy this human organism

it is then you know that you may experience that multidimensional

aspect waiting for you to invoke -:)

with LOVE and forgiveness

namaste

My light-body projection is to kill those bastards who demand trust, who demand faith, and who deliver only garbage.

That is their projection, they will receive just as they ordered.

Namaste.

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 4:40am:

Indian Philosophy is challenging, but worth the effort.

Well Indian philosophy is a collection of very diverse ideas.

If Indian philosophy was likened to a genuine Rajma Chawal curry cooked and consumed in Amritsar, then IITL's version is canned in a factory in Mascot, but they substituted a few ingredients and  watered it down for Western consumption.

My light-body projection is to kill those bastards who demand trust, who demand faith, and who deliver only garbage.

________

forgiveness is granted

Ahh Amadd .. I enjoyed reading your posts! You possess much insight I see lol :)

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 11:14pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 30th, 2010 at 4:39pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 29th, 2010 at 8:46pm: Ask yourself, "For what would I bleed? For what would I sacrifice my life?" That for which you are prepared to suffer Is that which defines your life's meaning. My 9 year old is completely unwilling to suffer, let alone bleed, for anything. Does that make his life meaningless? :'( Why don't you ask him. For what would his father suffer and bleed?

Would he suffer in aid of maintaining his status with peers? Or to gain the approval (or disapproval) of his parents? Or to maintain a sense of integration or hope?

If he truly refuses to suffer through struggle (the price of challenge) for anything, then how would he know what is meaningful to him and what is not?

Soren wrote on Sep 30^th, 2010 at 4:37pm:

'Meaning' is a human term. Other species have life - only we have meaning.

Actually animals also think but only HOW TO LIVE and not why they live.  
In spiritually primitive materialistic, Social Darwinistic and consumer societies majority of humans also only think how to live and not why they live.
This brings them back to the caves of frustrated human animals full of self inflicted anxiety disorders.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/u/5/L6qxMdYwn6M

___________

an interpretation..david icke on alex jones channel

part 1 of 5 -:)

if you have the care

namaste