Well we have heard Mr Abbott announcing spending here, and spending there, in his attempt to buy a few extra votes, and he has even told the mining companies he does not want their Billions of dollars in taxes, so he will give those back.
He also says he will get the budget back in surplus.

Now how do you spend more, take less, and get the budget back in the black?
You don't, obviously, even Mr Abbott knows that much, the thing that Mr Abbott is keeping very quiet is just where he plans to get the extra money to put things back in the black.

Well how about a rerun of a little hit from the past, GST?

Yes, how about 15%?
Not enough?
Nope, OK let's make it 17%, just to make the accountants work harder.

Am I the only person that thinks if Abbott gets in that the first thing he will do is raise the GST to 17% or higher, and all the time say, we are really sorry, but this was forced on us by Labor's economic mismanagement, so we are sticking our hands even deeper into your pockets.

I would like to see the sportsbet odds about the Libs raising the GST if they win this election, because they have already committed to handing back the 6 or 7 billion in taxes  to the mining companies, to put with the rest of their windfall profits, so somebody has top make up the shortfall.
I guess it will be us, with every tank of fuel, loaf of bread, and bottle of milk.

Hands up all those who do not believe the Libs will raise the GST.

Anyone?

he has said he will stop the nbbn , amongst a few other alp outgoings.

Quote:

Am I the only person that thinks if Abbott gets in that the first thing he will do is raise the GST to 17% or higher

No, I'm afraid you're not, darwin said yesterday he expects them to raise it to 20%.
It makes sense that is what they will do, they have to get the money from somewhere, and the Lib supporters either refuse or just cant answer where the money is coming from, its a fair bet Abbott will raise the GST.
I'll bet he doesn't cut income tax when he does it either, under an Abbott government the people of Australia will do it as tuff as they did during the depresion, men women and children living on the streets hand to mouth while Australia burns.

mozzoak,  skippy and darwin would do very well writing imaginative children's literature.  

I love the way the try to second guess what the libs will do,  how about having a go at who get the next Labor knife in the back,  or who is leaking stories,  or where all the money Julia is tossing around is coming from.  Lots and lots of ideas there for you to be creative with.

                                            ::)

nichy wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 12:49pm:

mozzoak,  skippy and darwin would do very well writing imaginative children's literature.   I love the way the try to second guess what the libs will do,  how about having a go at who get the next Labor knife in the back,  or who is leaking stories,  or where all the money Julia is tossing around is coming from.  Lots and lots of ideas there for you to be creative with.                                             ::)

Maybe you can explain how Abbott is going to fund his promises and return Australia to surplus then niche, because so far all the other Lib brigade have run off and hidden under a rock when asked the question.
I'll try it with you, how is Abbott going to fund everything?

It has to be GST or ETS. The debt will not be paid back by wishful thinking.

Or maybe not pay it back like Iceland.

Well nichy the thing about Labor's proposals is that they are all funded, no guesswork needed.

We know the Libs introduced the GST in the first place, and they have always maintained, at least privately, that it should be higher, most agree that around the 17% mark is what they consider the right mark.

Of course the Labor states would go along with it, because they just want more money, so the only people currently protecting us from this inflationary tax grab is Gillard's government.

Personally I am far happier seeing mining companies pay a little more from the untold billions they are reaping from our country's resources, than seeing pensioners and all the others who live from week to week, struggling to get by as prices start their inexorable rise under a raised GST.

What always goes hand in hand with rises like these is profiteering and price gouging from immoral companies who look upon the confusion that flows from such changes as an opportunity to exploit the public.
Yay Libs, screw over the average aussie in favour of billionaire mining companies, way to go.

You really are a desperate lot at times!  ABbott has identified savings to cover all his policies. and at least he HAS some policies unlike the idiotic labor party!

Quote:

I would like to see the sportsbet odds about the Libs raising the GST if they win this election, because they have already committed to handing back the 6 or 7 billion in taxes  to the mining companies

You cant 'hand back' something that hasnt even been collected yet! or passed thru the parliament!

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 1:06pm:

You really are a desperate lot at times!  ABbott has identified savings to cover all his policies. and at least he HAS some policies unlike the idiotic labor party!

please supply them, we have been asking the Lib lot here to supply Abbotts policy for returning us to surplus for days but you keep ignoring it or cant answer it I suspect, and replying with the same old sh1t, how will Abbott return us to surplus?

skippy et al, I don't know how the libs will right the good ship Aussie that the alp have steered towards the rocks.

all their figures are costed by treasury.

i gave my answer, also, GST cannot be changed unless every state and the senate agree.
Given that most states are almost bankrupt due to alp state mismanagement, gst is more likely to rise under a big spending alp  than a small efficient lib team.

Abott will probably cycle to work

Quote:

skippy et al, I don't know how the libs will right the good ship Aussie

Well at least sprint is honest, he admits he doesn't know how Abbott will do what he says he will ,but sprint doesn't care, he will vote for Abbott as he rides a pushbike to work. 8-)

:) :) :), thanks skippy

I don't know how the libs will get us under control again.
I do know that the alp rode us out of control from an ideal position, with little to show for it.
I do know our debt is rising daily, it is not an issue this week, but it will become one. excessive debt is what sunk the US and europe.

from experience, I know the libs are the ones for financial control and the ALP are useless at business.
if anything, the alp have got worse.


I do know abbott gets results. he is a performer.

This is exactly the reason as why Abbott is by passing the economic debate .

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 1:37pm:

:) :) :), thanks skippy I don't know how the libs will get us under control again. I do know that the alp rode us out of control from an ideal position, with little to show for it. I do know our debt is rising daily, it is not an issue this week, but it will become one. excessive debt is what sunk the US and europe. from experience, I know the libs are the ones for financial control and the ALP are useless at business. if anything, the alp have got worse. I do know abbott gets results. he is a performer.

Sprint you still cant show us how Abbott will do any better if not worse.
Like it or not at least the ALP have there policies out there and costed, like it or not the ALP plans to have a mining tax to get us into surplus.
Thankyou for at least having a go though, none of the others want to talk about what Abbott will do and how he'll fund it.

wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 1:40pm:

This is exactly the reason as why Abbott is by passing the economic debate .

No it's not.  Ms Gillard was given the option of THREE debates by Abbott, as was Rudd before he was rolled,  Gillard REFUSED POINT BLANK , can't remember whether Rudd was going to oblige or not.  She is only carrying on about it now to deflect from the fact that she has no real policies,  just a lot of "gunnas" and "wannas" (you really listen to her) .   She had her chance and wimped out so tough titties Julia !


:P

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 1:06pm:

You really are a desperate lot at times!  ABbott has identified savings to cover all his policies. and at least he HAS some policies unlike the idiotic labor party!

I don't know if you saw this Longy but I wouldn't really be holding Abbott up as a financial manager.

Tony Abbott is offering Australia a faith-based economics policy - because there's such a lack of vital detail that it requires deep belief in Abbott and his team.

And that's hard, because none of the Coalition economics team has even one day's experience managing a national economy.

Together with national defence, managing the economy is one of the two great responsibilities that fall uniquely to the federal government.

Abbott chants a sacred daily mantra: "End the waste, pay back the debt, stop the big new taxes and stop the boats."

Yet when he was asked yesterday when he would return the budget to surplus, he had no answer. Pressed by a reporter - "You don't know when the country will be back in surplus under a Coalition government?" - he dodged.

Abbott told a news conference in Brisbane that he couldn't nominate a time because, "I don't know what I will inherit" from Labor.

Two problems. First, it's unconvincing. If he wins and discovers Labor has lied about the public accounts, he need only say so and he would be held blameless.

Second, his answer is very odd because on the same day, Joe Hockey told reporters in another part of Queensland: "It's the Coalition that will deliver a surplus in three years' time, a real surplus."

In fact, it's point one in Abbott's "Action Contract" with the Australian people: "Restore the budget surplus within three years".

So is Abbott abandoning his Action Contract? Or does he not know his own policy? Is "pay back the debt" not really a policy, just a slogan?

The relentless media attention on the Labor Party's woes has allowed the Opposition Leader to come within three weeks of winning power just skating on economic policy.

Abbott promises to "end the waste''. OK, but what policy framework would he impose? Where will the discipline come from?

The government has committed itself to a limit of 2 per cent annual growth in real spending as it restores the budget.

The opposition has not committed to match this, nor has it proposed any other fiscal rule. So "ending the waste" is just a slogan, too.

What about the third economic leg of the Abbott mantra, "stop the big new taxes?"

Abbott has promised to dump the government's proposed mining tax, projected to raise $10.5 billion in its first two years. But he is also promising a new tax on larger companies, a 1.5 per cent levy, raising $6.1 billion in the first two years, to help pay for his paid parental leave scheme. Isn't that a big new tax?

Ah, says Abbott, but it's only temporary: "Once the budget position has been restored, we will reduce the levy and eventually abolish it," says the Liberal policy published yesterday.

OK, and when will the budget position be restored? This takes us back to Abbott's first answer. If he won't say, we can't know.

Or if his Action Contract is really Liberal policy, it will be in 2013. Which is exactly when the corporate levy kicks in.

So in this case, the levy will be redundant even as it kicks in. Not only a big new tax, but an unnecessary one, according to the Liberals' own policy.

So Abbott is either renouncing his Action Contract, or he is proposing an unnecessary new $6.1 billion tax.

And even the faithful would have trouble believing that this mess is sound economic policy.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/surplus-blunder-reveals-coalitions-econom...

mozzaok wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 12:36pm:

Hands up all those who do not believe the Libs will raise the GST. Anyone?

http://greengaged.com/images/uploads/blog/hands_up_survey.jpg

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 12:43pm:

he has said he will stop the nbbn , amongst a few other alp outgoings.

NBN is a great investment, comparable to the Snowy Mountain Scheme in importance and scale. The whole ski industry in NSW is a by product of the SMS, the spin offs and by products of the NBN will be staggeringly vast.

And the NBN is not a regular outgoing or revenue item, its cancellation would not help the Budget bottom line by a dollar.

That the Libs will raise the GST to 20% is a poorly kept secret. Their announced savings don’t amount to a hill of beans so they need funds from somewhere else.

Sprint doesn't care about the NBN him and Abbott still rely on carrier pidgion.

Or maybe thats budgie.

Darwin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 2:30pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 12:43pm: he has said he will stop the nbbn , amongst a few other alp outgoings. NBN is a great investment, comparable to the Snowy Mountain Scheme in importance and scale. The whole ski industry in NSW is a by product of the SMS, the spin offs and by products of the NBN will be staggeringly vast. And the NBN is not a regular outgoing or revenue item, its cancellation would not help the Budget bottom line by a dollar.

Your idiotic posts make skippy look rational and reserved. you are close to being totally wrong in every post. you are as dumb as a bag of hammers!

Mozz, why would the government increase the GST to pay of debt when the GST goes to the states?

Sorry Mozz but this is just fear mongering at its best, much like when SLR over at yahoo was saying the same thing about the ALP increasing the GST.

Verge wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 2:37pm:

Mozz, why would the government increase the GST to pay of debt when the GST goes to the states?

This GST furphy is typical of the desperate labor supporters on here. neither abbot or Gillard have even mentioned the GST and the possibility of raising it. it is nothing more than a desperate smear by a group of supporters unwilling to accept that labor are on the nose and could possibly lose this election.

Anyone here remember the Chaser stunt? Telstra broadband, a carrier pigeon in a race to deliver a 600Mb file. the carrier pigeon won.

NBN is vital! Telstra has neglected its copper network so a completely new network is needed. FTTH is the fastest way of transferring information and the NBN will be delivering for at least 50 years.

What exactly is wrong in the above?

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 2:39pm:

Verge wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 2:37pm: Mozz, why would the government increase the GST to pay of debt when the GST goes to the states? This GST furphy is typical of the desperate labor supporters on here. neither abbot or Gillard have even mentioned the GST and the possibility of raising it. it is nothing more than a desperate smear by a group of supporters unwilling to accept that labor are on the nose and could possibly lose this election.

Bah! GST is federal legislation and the Libs could amend it the day Parliament first sits unless Mr X opposed it and who knows how that media tart would vote. Can’t you Libs put forward some decent arguments?

Quote:

Anyone here remember the Chaser stunt? Telstra broadband, a carrier pigeon in a race to deliver a 600Mb file. the carrier pigeon won

Thats why Abbott is dropping the NBN, he can issue every school age child with a budgie(pidgions are sooo British) to be kept inside their undies, it also reduces the effects of radiation from mobiles ect.

Darwin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 2:41pm:

Anyone here remember the Chaser stunt? Telstra broadband, a carrier pigeon in a race to deliver a 600Mb file. the carrier pigeon won. NBN is vital! Telstra has neglected its copper network so a completely new network is needed. FTTH is the fastest way of transferring information and the NBN will be delivering for at least 50 years. What exactly is wrong in the above?

A) what was the distance for this already admitted 'stunt'
B) was does 'fastest' have to necessarily be an advantage? so that  dopes like you can download more pirate movies twice as fast? FTTH wil give 24Mbs (not 100 as promised) and the average ADLS2+ speed is 12Mbs. So forty billion dollars to double the speed? and it wil be here by well.... 2020?? and howards braodband of national ADSL2+ woudl have been here already.
C) 50 years??? 50 years ago none of our current comms infrastruture was even indevelopment. I doubt very much that 2060 will see us ussing comms built in 2010. anyone who belives that is 12 years old.

Quote:

Bah! GST is federal legislation and the Libs could amend it the day Parliament first sits unless Mr X opposed it and who knows how that media tart would vote

as could have labor in the last 3 years. you sound stupider as you go on.

Darwin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 2:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 2:39pm: Verge wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 2:37pm: Mozz, why would the government increase the GST to pay of debt when the GST goes to the states? This GST furphy is typical of the desperate labor supporters on here. neither abbot or Gillard have even mentioned the GST and the possibility of raising it. it is nothing more than a desperate smear by a group of supporters unwilling to accept that labor are on the nose and could possibly lose this election. Bah! GST is federal legislation and the Libs could amend it the day Parliament first sits unless Mr X opposed it and who knows how that media tart would vote. Can’t you Libs put forward some decent arguments?

Why when the money goes to the states?

GST isnt moving, unless you have actual PROOF that it is?

Just actually listen to Tone, critically assess his spending and saving and a big bump up of the GST is the only way he can do half of what he is promising. The first 10% can go to the states, the second 10% to the Feds, a minor amendment to the GST Bil is all that is needed you know.

Why don’t you Libs know these everyday facts?

On the Lib Party website they are flying a kite re bumping up the GST: what is the point of bumping it to 12%? Might as well take it to 20%! Another pointer, one of the brilliant Lib economic brains did let slip that europe (and now the UK) had 20$ VAT so why didn’t we?

If the betting agencies offer as a bet that if Tone wins the GST would be hiked I would put $1000 on it!

Verge wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:

Darwin wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 2:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 2:39pm: Verge wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 2:37pm: Mozz, why would the government increase the GST to pay of debt when the GST goes to the states? This GST furphy is typical of the desperate labor supporters on here. neither abbot or Gillard have even mentioned the GST and the possibility of raising it. it is nothing more than a desperate smear by a group of supporters unwilling to accept that labor are on the nose and could possibly lose this election. Bah! GST is federal legislation and the Libs could amend it the day Parliament first sits unless Mr X opposed it and who knows how that media tart would vote. Can’t you Libs put forward some decent arguments? Why when the money goes to the states? GST isnt moving, unless you have actual PROOF that it is?

Forget him. Darwin is very obviously a troll. Gillard could legalise bestiality and this twit would support it. dnot bother with his rubbish any more. there are better labor supporters to debate with - the ones with brains.

Longy, you wanted to debate me on this issue but time and again you show that you have not even the first idea what you are talking about.

The idea of optical fibre being redundant in fifty years is common sense, if you vote liberal, but sticking with copper, a technology from THE NINETEENTH CENTURY!!!! is the Liberal Plan we should have faith in?

People are just being silly opposing fibre, it has to happen, it is the only viable choice.
How far the fibre goes, and what areas it goes into is relevant, and I agree that for many rural communities fibre would not be a good choice, but copper can carry the load in those areas for the final run.
I tested one of Telstras advanced copper options, and it was quite good, but what people who complain about the broadband network ignore is that we will be receiving everything online, TV, phone, media home control and security, games, all that and more, and speed and bandwidth will be imperative.
Speed and bandwidth only fibre can deliver.
Sure Labor's plan is not perfect, but it is a perfect example of what you get from Labor, as compared to the Libs.
Labor invested in world class infrastructure to serve Aussie families and businesses for decades to come.
Liberals suggested we make do with technology already over a hundred years old, just "tweak" it a bit and she'll be apples.
They could have paid for the whole thing with the money they sent over to the USA for their Super Fund investments, wasn't that a stroke of economic genius?

So while luddites can whinge that they already get their emails fast enough, the rest of the world will be moving full tilt into the digital age, and unless we are a part of that, we will be left behind.

Darwin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 3:03pm:

Just actually listen to Tone, critically assess his spending and saving and a big bump up of the GST is the only way he can do half of what he is promising. The first 10% can go to the states, the second 10% to the Feds, a minor amendment to the GST Bil is all that is needed you know. Why don’t you Libs know these everyday facts?

So increasing the state coffers will pay of federal debt, and you know this from the tone of his voice.

Wow, you are so wasted on a message board when you could be selling this Saturdays lotto numbers instead.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 3:04pm:

Longy, you wanted to debate me on this issue but time and again you show that you have not even the first idea what you are talking about. The idea of optical fibre being redundant in fifty years is common sense, if you vote liberal, but sticking with copper, a technology from THE NINETEENTH CENTURY!!!! is the Liberal Plan we should have faith in? People are just being silly opposing fibre, it has to happen, it is the only viable choice. How far the fibre goes, and what areas it goes into is relevant, and I agree that for many rural communities fibre would not be a good choice, but copper can carry the load in those areas for the final run. I tested one of Telstras advanced copper options, and it was quite good, but what people who complain about the broadband network ignore is that we will be receiving everything online, TV, phone, media home control and security, games, all that and more, and speed and bandwidth will be imperative. Speed and bandwidth only fibre can deliver. Sure Labor's plan is not perfect, but it is a perfect example of what you get from Labor, as compared to the Libs. Labor invested in world class infrastructure to serve Aussie families and businesses for decades to come. Liberals suggested we make do with technology already over a hundred years old, just "tweak" it a bit and she'll be apples. They could have paid for the whole thing with the money they sent over to the USA for their Super Fund investments, wasn't that a stroke of economic genius? So while luddites can whinge that they already get their emails fast enough, the rest of the world will be moving full tilt into the digital age, and unless we are a part of that, we will be left behind.

ok now that you actually want to debate details maybe we can go ahead. Im no against fiber at all - quite the contrary. fiber to the node is an excellent and cost-effective solution and will give excellent and reliable results for most home owners. it is also a quater of the cost of fibre to the home. fibre to the home is superior in every measurment other than cost effectiveness. very very very few homes will need it or utilise if a fractions of its bandwidth. most hardly stretch ADSL2+ now either.

so the simple and far cheaper solution is fibre to the node followed up by optional (and separately costed) fiber to the home or business as required. it is scalable, vastly cheaper and with virtually no reduction in actual usefulness.

What I said was, changing the GST Bill was just a vote in parliament away. the all the GST money going to the states is not part of the Constitution you know! It just takes a minor amendment to change "GST monies will go to the States. . .” to “GST monies up to 10% or as the Treasurer decides will go to the States. . .”

This stuff about the GST going to the States is not cast in stone!

Darwin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 3:09pm:

What I said was, changing the GST Bill was just a vote in parliament away. the all the GST money going to the states is not part of the Constitution you know! It just takes a minor amendment to change "GST monies will go to the States. . .” to “GST monies up to 10% or as the Treasurer decides will go to the States. . .” This stuff about the GST going to the States is not cast in stone!

Care to show me where this is the Libs plan, as opposed to just fear and smear on your behalf?

Quote:

They could have paid for the whole thing with the money they sent over to the USA for their Super Fund investments, wasn't that a stroke of economic genius?

Is that the best you can do? spend OTHER PEOPLES MONEY (federal public servants superannuation) on a govt project? If I spent my employees superannuation on a company project I would be fined and rightly so.

FTTN is way inferior, why would anybody do such a halfhearted scheme? When Labor was calling the first tender Conroy and Rudd were advised by those that know that it had to be FTTH.

Anyway, I doubt the savings would be very real. Telstra as owner of the copper would screw the system to make an extra buck or a hundred anyway. I remember reading all this way back when.

The NBN is just so revolutionary, would unleash so much innovation, new services, new applications it would boost the economy for a long time.

Quote:

When Labor was calling the first tender conroy and Rudd were advised by those that know that it had to be FTTH.

actually they were advised the complete opposite but dont let a fact get in the way of you positing!

No they weren’t! If they were advised the complete opposite they would have proceeded with the FTTN.

Darwin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 3:15pm:

No they weren’t! If they were advised the complete opposite they would have proceeded with the FTTN.

I think you are trying to imply LOGIC into a govt process. the original tender process was for FTTN and then they suddenly overnight changed theire mind and virtually every ISP and telecoms company said it was the wrong decision.

Quote:

virtually every ISP and telecoms company said it was the wrong decision.

Errrrrr no, they didn’t! Sure, a few did, the ones whose networks were considered inadequate for folding into the NBN. I reckon I could count all the telcos/ISPs opposing the NBN on the fingers of one hand. ISPs are certainly selling their services in the areas where the NBN has already been rolled out in Tassie.

We need the NBN to improve business productivity, educational and health services and I will hammer micron thin the stupid wireless broadband dongle I rely on now, s l o w !

Darwin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2010 at 3:42pm:

Quote: virtually every ISP and telecoms company said it was the wrong decision. Errrrrr no, they didn’t! Sure, a few did, the ones whose networks were considered inadequate for folding into the NBN. I reckon I could count all the telcos/ISPs opposing the NBN on the fingers of one hand. ISPs are certainly selling their services in the areas where the NBN has already been rolled out in Tassie. We need the NBN to improve business productivity, educational and health services and I will hammer micron thin the stupid wireless broadband dongle I rely on now, s l o w !

you just keep hammering those total lies and misrepresentations. a few other morons wil beleive you as well.

I was loathe to debate the facts with you Longy, because you seem to be utterly bereft of them.


Quote:

it is also a quater of the cost of fibre to the home. fibre to the home is superior in every measurment other than cost effectiveness. very very very few homes will need it or utilise if a fractions of its bandwidth. most hardly stretch ADSL2+ now either. so the simple and far cheaper solution is fibre to the node followed up by optional (and separately costed) fiber to the home or business as required. it is scalable, vastly cheaper and with virtually no reduction in actual usefulness.

OK, FTTN a quarter the cost??
God knows where you pulled that figure from, the Liberal Party Big Book Of Bull, I expect.

The simple fact is the old copper wires do not cut it, and even the high speed copper that I trialled entailed Telstra running new copper to the node, then Cat 6 to my home, and to get high speed, and decent bandwidth out of copper, that is what they would have done, so please do no believe the BS that just putting fibre to the node would make the system fast and reliable, it would be better, but still a half done job.

Next comes your assertion that copper does the job now, and ADSL2+ is more than adequate.
Sorry, wrong again, I am on 2+ now, and it is slower than my cable service of five years ago.
What you fail to understand, or accept, is that all media will soon be provided digitally, and the fibre network is the only way to effectively deliver that.
The new TV's will have processors and normal TV shows as well as movies, education, and anything else you now get on the net will be available on your telly.
That will need a lot of bandwidth, as high def movies are multiple gigabytes, not a few hundred meg.

This is infrastructure developed for a changing and developing society, you know, the sort of thing that Liberals never do, they always let Labor do the heavy lifting, whilst acting as spoilers all the time, but when it is part of our everyday life they will try and find some way of claiming they helped instead of hindered.

The whole scheme will end up cheaper now that the mad mexican has gone, and Telstra are on board with the project, and the idea of having all the techs and equipment in the area and not wire it up is crazy, as is suggesting they come back and wire up businesses and houses on an individual basis, some time in the future.

I know Libs find it hard to get behind any Nation Building ideas, they are far too busy spending our money on high class welfare, the shysters.