I feel ashamed and embarrassed that Australia and the Australian people have became an international joke. We have a PM that goes cap in hand to East Timor asking for assistance in processing refugees only to be rejected.  Australia sent military personnel to ET to help them when their country was on the brink of civil war; not to mention the $970 million of aid the Australia tax payers have provided them over the past decade.

If they don’t want to help us that’s fine, but lets bring the Australian troops home, and no more free tax payer aid.

This is the thanks the Australian people get for helping a crappy little Asian country from imploding.  Maybe this should be a valuable lesson learnt about Australia offering help and assistance to similar countries who have no intentions of reciprocating our physical and financial help.  

Could it also be that East Timor  simply don’t want Muslims in their country disrupting their culture, considering what’s happened to countries in Europe and in Australia. After all, East Timor has been a predominantly Roman Catholic Country for the past 3 decades.

Quote:

I feel ashamed and embarrassed that Australia and the Australian people have became an international joke.

Really, can you supply your evidence that Australia is seen as an international joke? or are you just making it up? and stating YOUR OPINION rather than fact?

And we're off...

Yairs... A brave lot we are ... Off to fight wars with uber-mighty mega-nations... And now we get to kick around a micro-nation... Let's see if we end up proving we can't wait to stick the boot in for their not helping us with our hysterical obsession - Prison Islands and Boat people.

Quote:

And now we get to kick around a micro-nation... Let's see if we end up proving we can't wait to stick the boot in for their not helping us with our hysterical obsession

So true, the xenophobic hysterical obsession with boat people that the Libs and now Labor are showing makes me ashamed to be an Aussie.
When are these tards going to get it through their tiny little brains that being a refugee is not illegal, and that over 97% of illegals fly in on a plane. But the truth doesn't suit these xenophobic tards.

Well really they should be more grateful to the Gods of Natural Resourses and Money. Otherwise Australia would have continued to sit on the sidelines (ok it's not really the sidelines when you supply economic and military support to a murderous regime) while Indonesians killed more and more East Timorese.

You have to understand that they are actually grateful but they probably prefer not to be rogered and abused again. Fancy that.

Now since we are such hero's (no disrespect for out Aussie soldiers) why don't we grow a pair and send the SAS to arm and train West Papuan in their struggle with Genocidal Indonesia....LONG LIVE THE OPM.

Where's our Charlie Wilson???? Oh where oh where is our Charlie Wilson?

Could somebody explain to me why we don't just process them on one of our own islands? We have a lot.

Might be a silly question, but frankly this issue is so inconsequential. Democratic governments do an excellent job of distracting the public with trifling, unimportant matters while serious issues are going on directly under our noses.

imp, or immediateky put them on a plane back to where they came from.

Or that. Doesn't matter that much to me as long as they're going home at some point. Get out of this treaty too.

aikmann4 wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 12:11pm:

Democratic governments do an excellent job of distracting the public with trifling, unimportant matters while serious issues are going on directly under our noses.

Refugees arriving by boat is a national neurotic obsession.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 12:13pm:

imp, or immediateky put them on a plane back to where they came from.

Simplistic sh!t typical of immigrants who for whatever reason need to appear more Aussie than Aussies.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 12:44pm:

aikmann4 wrote on Jul 14th, 2010 at 12:11pm: Democratic governments do an excellent job of distracting the public with trifling, unimportant matters while serious issues are going on directly under our noses. Refugees arriving by boat is a national neurotic obsession.

Because our governments and their media compatriots obsess over it. It's pretty easy to get the mob to think what you want them to think. Wouldn't be hard to get Australians to start caring about the ones that arrive by plane either. Aussies aren't aware of what's going on at all.

Politicians get to appear "tough on immigration" thus appealing to people who don't really like immigration by taking on boat people. Meanwhile, legal immigration continues unfettered, as well as the intake of all the other refugees. Macca and Joe down at the BP garage outside of Newcastle think that their vote is going to satisfy their wants. Mainstream politics is mainly about an argument over a multitude of trifling matters that serve as a smokescreen with a mostly multiparty, corporate oriented consensus going on behind it.

Shocker.

aikmann4 wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 12:48pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 14th, 2010 at 12:44pm: aikmann4 wrote on Jul 14th, 2010 at 12:11pm: Democratic governments do an excellent job of distracting the public with trifling, unimportant matters while serious issues are going on directly under our noses. Refugees arriving by boat is a national neurotic obsession. Because our governments and their media compatriots obsess over it. It's pretty easy to get the mob to think what you want them to think.

No, it's what we, collectively, obsess over. Certain (particularly right-wing) politicians may have used it as a distraction, but the trick only works because we're neurotic about the issue.

Seems pretty odd, but alright. The inhabitants of an island continent terrified of boats and the boat people. ;D

skippy. wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

Quote:    I feel ashamed and embarrassed that Australia and the Australian people have became an international joke. Really, can you supply your evidence that Australia is seen as an international joke? or are you just making it up? and stating YOUR OPINION rather than fact?

I'd guess the international joke would be the notion of Australians wanting to pack refugees on ships and transport them to an island upon which we will build a detention facility (prison)... I guess it's harder to see our own irony when we must live it as opposed to a perspective of detached observation.

Australia needs to remember that they owe East Timor a debt, not the other way around. >:( Our friends in East Timor should have this nations respect.

Why should we (or any other micro-nation) feel obliged to foot the bill or accommodate what stupid labor saw fit to meddle with,  (former immigration/border policies and laws)  in order to suit themselves?

A plane fair would work out cheaper in the long run, this and deter other would be queue-jumpers arriving illegally in our country, be it by boat or plane.

How about 3rd class sea-worthy barges to tow them out of Australian waters?

We don't have the infrastructure to accommodate anymore here at present, and they are breaking the law & jeopardising the prospects of future generations of Australians to come including those who do wish to immigrate here lawfully,  when entering our nations boarders illegally, end of story.

When they can learn to stop arriving like rude uninvited arrogant guests, this and learn to immigrate ethically, lawfully, then perhaps their lawful applications should be considered.

It's our way or no way, it's our country, no theirs afterall.

Our grandfathers didn't risk their lives defending this country for these shameless free loaders to lumber themselves upon us like rude demanding guests.

Yes, we are the laughing stock of the world, especially Europe who have already walked a mile in our shoes, this and know what the outcome of this stupidity will be ...this and know only too well our politicians are not operating in accordance with what's really in our nations best interests.

Before even arriving here they demonstrate their unwillingness to adhere to our laws, so what makes you think that when granted residency, they would conduct themselves any differently.

I say we toss them a food-hamper then tow them out of Australian waters, and if their boats begin to break up out at sea, then tough luck.

Charity should begin at home.

Why continue positively reinforcing their illegal behaviour simply to score minority votes?

Because this is what Labors doing.

Australians have woken up to this fact and know Labor are not at all serious about delivering any meaningful population policies in order to 'sustain' future generations of law biding Australians to come...preferring to 'sustain' illegal immigrants for political advantage instead.

Sorry, but this is not what past generations of Australians worked their guts out for, and I'm sure if any of them had have seen this coming, they wouldn't have enlisted to defend their shores to begin with, as what would have been the point?

And I think what sickens me most is their overall disrespect for our nations people, our laws and culture, we are infidels apparently.

But we aren't infidels when they are lining up at Centrelink demanding benefits are we...  funny that! >:(



Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Wake up Australia, we really need to crack down on people entering our country illegally, irrespective of why they they see fit to do so.

You come up with our grandfathers fought... but those who say that also say that Indigenous Australians should stop living in the past.

Deborahmac09 wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 6:13pm:

You come up with our grandfathers fought... but those who say that also say that Indigenous Australians should stop living in the past.

What???!!

Indigenous Australians defended our shores, this and went to war also.

8-)...

Try again deb.

;)

Think about what I said Millie.

I hear it a lot.  It is nothing to do with them going to war. It is about what they have lost. We tell them to stop living in the past, and then someone makes a statement like you did.
Our grandfathers fought... Both are in the past, are they not?

Deborahmac09 wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 6:22pm:

Think about what I said Millie. I hear it a lot.  It is nothing to do with them going to war. It is about what they have lost. We tell them to stop living in the past, and then someone makes a statement like you did. Our grandfathers fought... Both are in the past, are they not?

What has this got to do with the subject of immigration?

 ;)...  and before jumping to conclusions, this and showering Labor with gratitude, take a look at this article...

Immigration stands to further disadvantage our already disadvantaged Australians, and this includes those who were promised the world and given an atlas, by yours truly, none other than a Labor government.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/06/04/closing-the-gap-rudd-overpromised-on-indigenous-unemployment/

The more who come here, the less you get.

You will not get an argument from me re: immigration,

But you are the one who bought our grandfathers into it. What is going on today is little to do with them or what they did. We live in a different world than they did.

In any case, this thread is Should East Timor have considered helping us?
As I said, they owe us nothing.

I am not sure that our immigration system makes me laugh or cry.

We have a friend who during WW II was in the Australian Army, he gets an Australian pension. He bought his family up over here.
When his wife was dying, he took her back to Scotland. Because of this he is not allowed to live here, regardless of being paid an Australian Pension.
So there are definatly huge holes in our system.

Friday, 4 June 2010

Rudd overpromised on indigenous unemployment
by Professor Jon Altman and Dr Nicholas Biddle from the Australian National University

Yesterday, employment data for 2008 and 2009, the first two years of the Rudd government, were released. And the figures suggest that rather than delivering on their ‘closing the gap’ pledge, the Australian government might have exacerbated the expansion of the indigenous unemployment gap it has committed to halve.

________________________________

Indigenous Australians are at risk of being cast aside once again given they are pandering to a new minority group now, one which takes precedence over Indigenous Australians as their votes matter more to them than yours.

Why do you think Muslims are keen on converting Indigenous Australians to Islam?

Because you are their naive competition as they step in place and claim your minority status for themselves.

You are what is the traditional landowners, and if they side you off with them, play westerners off against our Indigenous Australians then they have made 1st base, in terms of cashing in on what would otherwise go towards improving existing indigenous communities rather is being redirected into accommodating a sprawling Australia.

They only want to convert Indigenous Australians to shut them up, as you are their rival minority.

8-) White people gave you alcohol, now the middle east will bring you Islam to keep you subserviently content with your having been taken for the ride of your lives as your communities continue to regress as has been demonstrated by this governments failure to improve your standard of living "Close the gap"...  Yep, Rudd has good reason to be sorry, and you know, I think this may have been why he started to cry when he came to this point in his closing speech. Perhaps he now realises how if anything he has made things much worse for Indigenous Australians.
Low employment = more crime, poverty, disadvantage, misery, poor health loss of opportunity.

The buck can only stretch so far, and at present, we are funnelling money into accommodating what has arrived here illegally.

Existing Australians votes don't really matter anymore...it's the migrant vote they want.

Rudd went funny after these stats went public, perhaps up until this point, he had no idea how he himself had actually made things much worse in terms of widening the gap for indigenous Australians?

Irresponsible immigration stands to disadvantage all Australians, more so the already disadvantaged as they are forced to endure job shortages and compete with immigrants for a dog-pood minimal wage.

There have been Indigenous Muslim Australians for hundreds of years.

Why do you think Muslims are keen on converting Indigenous Australians to Islam?
___________________________

My question would be. If an Indigenous Australian converts to Islam, could they still save what is left of their own native culture? A culture they tell us is important to them. It depends on how hard core their new beliefs are I suppose.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 7:14pm:

There have been Indigenous Muslim Australians for hundreds of years.

yes Annie, but they would not be considered hard core.

Afghan camel drivers were adopted by Indigenous groups, just as some Dutch survivors were years before Cook.

Not sure adopted was the right word.

Islam in Australia went back before Afghani camel drivers.

And of course they won't lose their culture. Are adherents of Christianity monocultural? Why should Muslims be any different?

Quote:

but they would not be considered hard core.

Are all Arab or Asian Muslims hardcore?

Annie, parts of their culture were lost.

As I said, it depends how hardcore their beliefs are.

Christianity did not do them any favours. Should I say more correctly the churches did not do them any favours.

Hardcore beliefs destroy.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 7:29pm:

Quote: but they would not be considered hard core. Are all Arab or Asian Muslims hardcore?

No, but some are, and so are some christian groups. There are wackos in every religion tree.

Quote:

Annie, parts of their culture were lost. As I said, it depends how hardcore their beliefs are. Christianity did not do them any favours. Should I say more correctly the churches did not do them any favours. Hardcore beliefs destroy.

Yes, they do destroy.

The difference is, Indigenous Australians are converting because they want to, not because it's being rammed down their throats. I think in some cases Islam may even help preserve their culture.

Well said Annie.

Not being rammed down their throats?

The bloke who lives at the end of my street is a prison officer, this and advised how Muslim 'activists' regularly visit in-mates (particularly indigenous in-mates)...this and bring them cigarettes snacks and reading material to indulge in.

Now, when your only visitor is a Muslim activist baring gifts,are you going to say no?

:)

Furthermore, why do Muslims refer to their sharing their faith as activism, this opposed to simply breeching or sharing their faith?

As though Islam were a right, an entitlement, not only a religion.

We couldn't care less if you believed in little green men from the planet Gribonoti, so why the need to refer to yourselves as 'activists', as though you are some sort of in-mate advocate/ societal support system, crotch, for misunderstood under-represented victims of our western criminal justice system.. is this how you see yourselves?

As saviours/activists?

Or is there a bit more to it..... 8-)

And don't you get tired of playing victim in the mist,  in what will always be a western nation founded on both traditional indigenous and Christian values?

I think Our indigenous Australians have their own faith, this and are quite happy with it.... so why prey on those who would do anything for a visitor and a cigarette in prison?

And why only hand out smokes to those prepared to engage in prayer session on your magic carpets?

And do you really need an international Islamic prayer day, when you guys pull that magic carpet out several times a day, often expecting workplaces to pander to your beliefs and right to take regular prayer breaks?

:) And is Allah a smoker?

Christians hand out bibles, Muslim activists hand out smokes...better than petrol I guess....things could be worse I suppose, but is it not still condescending and degrading?

When you know all they really want is a smoke, not to listen to you spool your "activism" as though it were more than just a belief system.

How demoralising, are you trying to bribe them the way white people did when they first jumped off the first fleet?

No prises for second best, sorry.

;)...  I think they have come along way since then, and think we all have in fact.

Or else a majority who accept your smokes in prison would be returning to your mosques when they get released.

Give Allah my regards, and let him know he has his work cut out for him when explaining how it's possible that there may still be such things as Muslim virgins on earth, when clearly no less than 72 per male are all up in heaven waiting for a root.

So, for every Muslim male there are 72 female virgins awaiting his humble arrival in Allah's kingdom?

Wow, talk about a man drought!
...So statistically, should you conceive 73 children, only one of them will be male according to Allah's divine preaching?

Not a bright lot are you...I would have thought you'd figured this out yourselves.

Where the hell do all these virgins come from?

8-)...Look, all faiths have their faults, (I'm atheist btw)...but really, 72 virgins for each Muslim man?

....

Pulease, and are they recyclable?

What next, will Muslims be demanding land-rights?

Our indigenous Australians didn't come down with the last shower, they know a false profit baring gifts when they see one.

They have their own culture, one they are quite proud of or else they would be converting to Islam in droves, are you suggesting their culture is less significant than the Islamic faith?

:)

A count of hands please...

Hands up everybody who has been rudely-interrupted by:

1. Xtians

2. Muslims

Peddling their faith door-to-door?

You can put up both hands if you've been imposed upon by both...



My answer is [1. Xtians] - and I expect that the same would apply to the vast majority of Australians!

Xtian nutjobs, of various denominations, have prowled all of the city and regional streets in which I have lived - typically several times a year!

Millie doesn't know the difference between wacko and normal apparently.
News Millie, most people from all walks are normal not wacko.  :o

You are right thy, I have never had a muslim come to my door to annoy me by peddling their beliefs.

I'm sure that most Muslim men would be as obsessed, with the promise of 72 virgins, as Western propagandists are - if they hadn't all found a way to die a premature death when their adolescent hormones were raging at their peak...

Why do Muslims consider those who are not of the Muslim faith infidels?

And why do Muslim refugees sort refuge in western nations among infidels?

Ok, you might not be banging on our doors, but you intrude and make monetary demands in other ways,'uninvited'  is our not having to accommodate your belief systems a form of temple tax?

Given we are who helped build your mosques and Islamic schools afterall?

I think we have been overly accommodating, to a fault even.

And I think you know this too.

8-)

Quote:

Why do Muslims consider those who are not of the Muslim faith infidels?

Same reason christians called those not of their faith and sometimes other christians heathen and/or infidel.
Same reason we call those with different beliefs derogatory names.
like Rightard and leftard to name only two others.

Furthermore, Muslims 'activists' frequent social networking sites, this and have a tendency to take over message boards spooling Pro-Muslim propaganda the way you are now...

Is this not a form of door knocking, when all I came here for was to discuss Australian politics, though some how or another find myself interacting with Muslims whenever the subject of immigration comes up?

What about my right to engage in non-religious diatribe, given I don't believe in any sort of god, faith full stop.

From my experience online, the difference between Christian and Muslim religious zealots are as follows...

Christians will almost take pity on your soul for not believing in god, this and genuinely go out of their way to save you...as annoying as this can be at times, their hearts appear to be in the right place......whereas Muslims will condemn you, insult you, go so far as  to flame you off any given site, this and become very politically involved,  mixing their politics with their faith, as though the two work hand in hand.

Christians generally give up, this and accept the fact that despite your not being a Christian, you are still entitled to an opinion, whereas Muslims generally target and hound you, make it very clear your opinions, views  don't count, this and generally express contempt for those who appear to challenge them on any number of views, particularly if they are non-Muslims (infidels) and or female, as females are generally considered vessels for reproduction, are not generally considered educated learned beings entitled to an opinion,  least not on the subject of politics.

Know any female Muslim politicians from  the following Muslim majority nations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries

Or is it that these woman know their place, this and wouldn't dream of imposing their views on a more superior male?

Self destructive regressive barbarians.

8-)

No Millie, it isn't a form of door knocking.
This nation has freedom of religion, so deal with it!
Islam has been in this country since before we were federated.

Christians do not take pitty on your soul, they condemn it!
If you do not believe what we say, you will face fire and brimstone.
But if you believe, no matter what you do, you will be saved.

Deborahmac09 wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 9:28pm:

No Millie, it isn't a form of door knocking. This nation has freedom of religion, so deal with it! Islam has been in this country since before we were federated.

Garbage!



Stop bank rolling your faith on Indigenous Australians entitlements, they are our traditional landowners, not Muslims.

 8-) And converting them to Muslim will not make you any more entitled to this country, as we only need to see what Islam has done to your own abandoned-nations you claim to seek asylum/refuge from as a matter of life and death, to realise the disadvantages of a prejudice, sexist oppressive country founded or disrupted by Islamic law.

If Islam was the better faith and the way forward, then why are you all trying to seek asylum in western nations ruled by infidels?

8-) You may dominate and grandstand over your woman, but to us, you are just a race of people who didn't progress/evolve the way the west have.

Muslims have no cultural/historical connection/entitlement to Australia what so ever....
8-)
Just because we have a desert, doesn't mean it's yours.

mellie wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 9:21pm:

Furthermore, Muslims 'activists' frequent social networking sites, this and have a tendency to take over message boards spooling Pro-Muslim propaganda the way you are now... Is this not a form of door knocking, when all I came here for was to discuss Australian politics, though some how or another find myself interacting with Muslims whenever the subject of immigration comes up? What about my right to engage in non-religious diatribe, given I don't believe in any sort of god, faith full stop. From my experience online, the difference between Christian and Muslim religious zealots are as follows... Christians will almost take pity on your soul for not believing in god, this and genuinely go out of their way to save you...as annoying as this can be at times, their hearts appear to be in the right place......whereas Muslims will condemn you, insult you, go so far as  to flame you off any given site, this and become very politically involved,  mixing their politics with their faith, as though the two work hand in hand. Christians generally give up, this and accept the fact that despite your not being a Christian, you are still entitled to an opinion, whereas Muslims generally target and hound you, make it very clear your opinions, views  don't count, this and generally express contempt for those who appear to challenge them on any number of views, particularly if they are non-Muslims (infidels) and or female, as females are generally considered vessels for reproduction, are not generally considered educated learned beings entitled to an opinion,  least not on the subject of politics. Know any female Muslim politicians from  the following Muslim majority nations? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries Or is it that these woman know their place, this and wouldn't dream of imposing their views on a more superior male? Self destructive regressive barbarians. 8-)

1. Have you ever considered that you might NOT be interacting with Muslims - and instead debating some of your fellow Aussies, who are responding to your un-Australian bigotry by playing devil's advocate!?

2. I see that you are worried about females being under-represented in the Muslim world - so Soren's pic below should reassure you, since this Cairo University class of 2004 is dominated by burqua-wearing women...


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1277162118/335#335


Soren wrote on Jul 13^th, 2010 at 8:39pm:

muso wrote on Jul 11th, 2010 at 12:01pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 11th, 2010 at 10:50am: I would be happy to bet that as second and third generation women from families who have traditionally worn the Burqa grow up the Burqa will totally disappear from western countries and it will become a distant memory. In 10 -20yrs time the next generation of women from these families will be staying out all night, shagging, drinking, smoking and wearing revealing clothing with the rest of their Aussie friends.   :) I agree. In many cases they already are. Whenever I give a speech on Islam, some or other complacenik always says, "Oh, but they haven't had time to Westernize. Just you wait and see. Give it another 20 years, and the siren song of Westernization will work its magic." This argument isn't merely speculative, it's already been proved wrong by what's happened over the last 20 years. Compare the Cairo University class of 1959 with those of the 21st century, and then see if you can recite your inevitablist theories of social evolution with a straight face. The idea that social progress is like the wheel or the internal combustion engine — once invented, it can never be uninvented — is one of the laziest assumptions of the Western Left.(Mark Steyn)

Quote:

1959

http://muddlingtowardmaturity.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c511153ef012877567508970c-pi




Quote:

2004

http://muddlingtowardmaturity.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c511153ef0120a8542b94970b-pi

If you are so concerned about indigenous Australians, what do you know about them? Do you at least know that they are peoples not a people.


as for what I said being garbage.
People of muslim faith have been here since before Federation.
Some integrated into Indigenous groups. Just as some Dutch survivors did before Cook got here.

Quote:

2. I see that you are worried about females being under-represented in the Muslim world - so Soren's pic below should reassure you, since this Cairo University class of 2004 is dominated by burqua-wearing women...

Thy Equitist

Now I do not know if it was merely a slip, or like my wife, , and many others out there, the plain old wraparound scarf thingy, is not a burqa.
When I said I thought Burqas should be banned, she thought I was referring to the scarf thing, that leaves the face visible, and only when I explained that it is "only" the burqa, the tent with the fly screen left up, and the niqab, the letter box look, which people like myself were concerned about, and could not care less about them wearing scarves around their heads (the hijab, I think) if they want to.

Now that pic has no masked women that I can see, and I fear that many people who think banning is extreme, do not realise that only masks are being targeted.

It is a small, but relevant distinction.

My GP is a Muslim female, and she is the first to express concern for the country she and her cousin fled in order to receive an education here in Australia, a country oppressed by Muslim law.

She still wears a veil, (not a burqa) this and refers to herself as being a Muslim, though is not of the extreme nature.

I don't think any religion which ostracises or condemns others who are not of the same belief are a beneficial attribute to our progressive western nation and neither does she.

:) It's these extremists, irrespective of faith that give religion a bad name, this and tend to persuade people like me to abandon religion all together.

Enjoy your evening.

mozzaok wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 9:59pm:

Quote: 2. I see that you are worried about females being under-represented in the Muslim world - so Soren's pic below should reassure you, since this Cairo University class of 2004 is dominated by burqua-wearing women... Thy Equitist Now I do not know if it was merely a slip, or like my wife, , and many others out there, the plain old wraparound scarf thingy, is not a burqa. When I said I thought Burqas should be banned, she thought I was referring to the scarf thing, that leaves the face visible, and only when I explained that it is "only" the burqa, the tent with the fly screen left up, and the niqab, the letter box look, which people like myself were concerned about, and could not care less about them wearing scarves around their heads (the hijab, I think) if they want to. Now that pic has no masked women that I can see, and I fear that many people who think banning is extreme, do not realise that only masks are being targeted. It is a small, but relevant distinction.

Well put.

:)...  My GP wears a scarf too, not a burqa.

mozzaok wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 9:59pm:

Quote: 2. I see that you are worried about females being under-represented in the Muslim world - so Soren's pic below should reassure you, since this Cairo University class of 2004 is dominated by burqua-wearing women... Thy Equitist Now I do not know if it was merely a slip, or like my wife, , and many others out there, the plain old wraparound scarf thingy, is not a burqa. When I said I thought Burqas should be banned, she thought I was referring to the scarf thing, that leaves the face visible, and only when I explained that it is "only" the burqa, the tent with the fly screen left up, and the niqab, the letter box look, which people like myself were concerned about, and could not care less about them wearing scarves around their heads (the hijab, I think) if they want to. Now that pic has no masked women that I can see, and I fear that many people who think banning is extreme, do not realise that only masks are being targeted. It is a small, but relevant distinction.

You are quite correct, Moz - my apologies for buying into the misinformation...

Quote:

It's these extremists, irrespective of faith that give religion a bad name, this and tend to persuade people like me to abandon religion all together.

Exactly Millie, extremists, we can all do without extremists from all walks of life.

Goodnight.

BTW I wonder if the majority of peoples of France are fully aware of that distinction...

Ditto re those who are calling for the banning of the burqa here!?

The reason I ask, is that (as I have mentioned previously) my 12 year old son and me witnessed a violent and bloody incident at a service station earlier this year - which started with a white yobbo verballing a traditionally-robed and scarf-clad Muslim woman, before he physically attacked her male companion...

Deborahmac09 wrote on Jul 14^th, 2010 at 6:02pm:

Australia needs to remember that they owe East Timor a debt, not the other way around. >:( Our friends in East Timor should have this nations respect.

Can you explain that further?

Quote:

I would be happy to bet that as second and third generation women from families who have traditionally worn the Burqa grow up the Burqa will totally disappear from western countries and it will become a distant memory. In 10 -20yrs time the next generation of women from these families will be staying out all night, shagging, drinking, smoking and wearing revealing clothing with the rest of their Aussie friends.

Yeah.. goody. More classy ladettes to have around. ::)

mellie

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It's these extremists, irrespective of faith that give religion a bad name, this and tend to persuade people like me to abandon religion all together. Enjoy your evening.

agreed

If you feel compelled to abandon religion because of the behavior of some of its practitioners, perhaps you were never really religious to begin with?

locutius wrote on Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:58am:

Deborahmac09 wrote on Jul 14th, 2010 at 6:02pm: Australia needs to remember that they owe East Timor a debt, not the other way around. >:( Our friends in East Timor should have this nations respect. Can you explain that further?

They helped us, when they helped our wounded at great risk to themselves. (It was helping our soldiers that got many of them killed) Where was Aussie when they needed help when Indonesia invaded. Our government even turned their backs on our own over there.

Sorry, that would be living in the past =)
But then we are suppose to learn by history right?

Deborahmac09 wrote on Jul 15^th, 2010 at 11:09am:

locutius wrote on Jul 15th, 2010 at 9:58am: Deborahmac09 wrote on Jul 14th, 2010 at 6:02pm: Australia needs to remember that they owe East Timor a debt, not the other way around. >:( Our friends in East Timor should have this nations respect. Can you explain that further? They helped us, when they helped our wounded at great risk to themselves. (It was helping our soldiers that got many of them killed) Where was Aussie when they needed help when Indonesia invaded. Our government even turned their backs on our own over there. Sorry, that would be living in the past =) But then we are suppose to learn by history right?

Are you refering to WW2?

I agree, but I doubt they would have done well under the Japanese in the long run anyway.

The Japanese only played the oriental vs occidental card as a matter of expediency.

Yes they deserved our help decades ago as do the Western Papuans now. And both for the same reasons.

Partly for the reason you have given but even more importantly because we should support the self determination of other people, support and encourage democracy and undermine totalitarian regimes at every opportunity whether they be left or right wing. And ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS undermine and sabotage regimes that practice genocide as the Indonesians have done.

Australia has failed for the sake of market share and the US has failed because East Timor and Western Papua served no strategic import.

I thing you are giving the East Timorese way to much credit Deb, considering they were not the only people who helped Aussie soldiers during the many wars they fought in.

Considering ET is a predominately Catholic country, I personally believe the word “humanitarianism” is being used as a ruse by ET because they see how Muslim refugees have stuffed other countries and they don’t want the same thing happening to theirs.

I do understand their psychology is a way, but it seems very disrespectful not to help a country that’s given them $billions in tax payer aid over the decades.

Why doesn’t Australia open a refugee processing office over in Indonesia where refugees can apply for refugee asylum in Australia?  Wouldn’t that shut the door on them arriving here illegally by boat?

How do you think we'd all react if the US requested and required Australia to transfer the Guantanamo Holding Pen to mainland Australia.

Wonder if there'd be echoes of another era were Britain to request a detention centre to be set up for their "illegals" in say, Tasmania.

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Know any female Muslim politicians from  the following Muslim majority nations?

Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Egypt, Turkey, Afghanistan, Malaysia and Palestine have all had prominent female politicians. That's off the top of my head - I'm sure most of the other countries have too.

In deference to our own tortured history with regard to prisoners or those detained by the state, it is our duty to ensure we never be the proponent of, or a party to, the establishment of island prisons.