When we see people survive cataclysmic natural disasters, or even simple car accidents, we are almost always confronted by the religious amongst us, attributing the survival as being, "A Miracle", brought about by an interventionist god protecting these survivors, alone.

Now, just as a matter of enquiry, I was wondering if any religions have ever done a statistical analysis of unlikely events of survival, and broken down the results to identify whether those claimed to have been miraculously saved, shared any particular attributes?

I mean, if you really want to believe in an interventionist god, it would be worth knowing if he favours one group of people over another.

Does he intervene to save christians, or muslims, or moonies?
Does he ignore religious groupings altogether and choose people by worth, or potential, like, that guy always gives to charity, so I will save him, but that other guy spends his money on prostututes and alcohol and drugs, so he can die, or that baby will grow up to be a rapist, but that other one will cure diseases, so I will save him, that sort of thing.

So, do any theists know of any evidence which may give us a clue as to just why god performs these miracles that they claim?

If they do not have any evidence, can they explain what criteria they use to claim the occurrence of miracles? I for one am a little confused on this issue, even though I have heard the claim many times in my lifetime, I can discern no pattern or reason to it.

You go and do the research for yourself, Mozz. You can start here:


For a cure to be recognised as medically inexplicable, certain facts require to be established:

The original diagnosis must be verified and confirmed beyond doubt
The diagnosis must be regarded as "incurable" with current means (although ongoing treatments do not disqualify the cure)
The cure must happen in association with a visit to Lourdes, typically while in Lourdes or in the vicinity of the shrine itself (although drinking or bathing in the water are not required)
The cure must be immediate (rapid resolution of symptoms and signs of the illness)
The cure must be complete (with no residual impairment or deficit)
The cure must be permanent (with no recurrence)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Medical_Bureau

http://www.lourdes-france.org/index.php?goto_centre=ru&contexte=en&id=491&id_rubrique=491

No thanks, just thinking about lourdes makes me sad.
As a child, I felt there was something inherently cruel and evil about those images of the infirm and dying queing up to be accepted or rejected by god as being worthy of receiving a miracle.

I recall it was one of my first times actually thinking about the stuff that we were being told, and concluding it was not good.
As a kid you tend not to over analyse things, but the pervading feeling I kept getting was that this stuff is pretty sick.

You wanted to know how they verify miracles - or the unexplained - so there it is. Read the proicess and see if it is rigorous enough for ya.




Here is my understaning of miracles:

Morris was driving down the street in a sweat because he had an important meeting and couldn't find a parking place.

Looking up to heaven he said, God take pity on me. If you find me a parking place I will go to the synagogue every day for the rest of me life and give up sneaking non kosher food. Miraculously, a parking place appeared.

Morris looked up again and said, "Never mind, I found one."

mozzaok wrote on Apr 5^th, 2010 at 10:56am:

No thanks, just thinking about lourdes makes me sad. As a child, I felt there was something inherently cruel and evil about those images of the infirm and dying queing up to be accepted or rejected by god as being worthy of receiving a miracle. I recall it was one of my first times actually thinking about the stuff that we were being told, and concluding it was not good. As a kid you tend not to over analyse things, but the pervading feeling I kept getting was that this stuff is pretty sick.

Now that's a very good point.

Who weeps for those whom 'god' rejects as unworthy of a miracle?

Who tells the cancer-ridden 10 year old, writhing in pain, that "god just doesn't love you enough"?

Do the faithful just stare and turn their faces away? Maybe they hope that through medical science there will soon be a cure for the evil of disease that afflicts the young child... And deep down, I'm sure, they know that this kind of hope is not in vain.

I love that joke soren, ;D, I guess we may be approaching it's meaning from different angles, but I got a great laugh from it, which just goes to show that we do not all have to be in perfect step, to still enjoy the dance.

soren - hahahah

helian - that's a good query. course, there is an answer

Yeah we know sprint.

There were two guys walking down the street when they saw the strangest thing, a man across the road was rolling around on the ground, then skipping backwards then doing reverse somersaults as he went down the street.
One guy looked to his mate and said, "he must be insane"
To which his mate replied, "nah, that's god. He moves in mysterious ways".

Many writers on heaven, from Philo of Alexandria onwards, are inclined to stress the intellectual delights of heaven. Philo seems to think that all the saved will be able to indulge in philosophy seminars, making heaven a kind of Oxford graduate college, like All Souls. My own favourite is the image of some medieval rabbis, who saw heaven as a vast, quiet, peaceful library, where books jumped down from the shelves when you nodded to them, and soft-footed librarians dispersed cooling mint drinks.


http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/johnson_04_10.html

Other, er, writers imagine booze and girlies...

Yes it is interesting, and pretty obvious, that most people will think of heaven in terms relative to their own personal tastes.
Personally I have always thought the terms heaven and hell were misunderstood by people as pertaining to an existence they will never experience, and would be better confined to provide context to their actual existence, for well we know the pleasures and satisfactions that may be found in this life we live, and also we know the horrors that so many face which is almost beyond our comprehension, and that is a big enough concept of heaven and hell for me.

A FREAK wave saved a man's life after he plunged off The Gap at Watsons Bay last night.

The 45-year-old man who fell 200m was washed back on to dry land unharmed shortly after 9pm.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/freak-wave-saves-man-in-suicide-spot/story-e6freuy9-1225852516468

AND

Forty years on, Vatican tells Beatles: We love you, yeah, yeah, yeah


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1265220/Forty-years-Vatican-tells-Beatles-We-love-yeah-yeah-yeah.html#ixzz0kqP98TJ1