http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26459978-953,00.html

This is the leader of the Liberal Party who is saying that. It's an OMG moment  ;D ;D ;D ;D

If it wasn't for the fact that it's tragic to see the Libs go back to the dark ages, it would be funny. What have they done to my party?

You are not Penny's love-child are you?
I mean both her and you seem to have misquoted and reinterpreted what Abbott actually has supposedly said.

Surely your side wouldn't lie about stuff would they?   ;D ;D ;D

What's my side? - The side of reason?


"Notwithstanding the dramatic increases in man-made CO2 emissions over the last decade, the world's warming has stopped" - Tony Abbott

Direct quote - source Macquarie Radio

Grendell - we actually had some intelligent debate on this board.  Is this the interval, and are you the cabaret?

What's your follow-up act. Do you spin plates on the end of your nose?

listen up Abuso...

Penny said...  and I quote

"He is out there publicly talking about the world cooling when we have so many world leaders ... going to Copenhagen because they are concerned about climate change," she said.

"We see Mr Abbott talking about the globe cooling as the rest of the world is trying to work its way to tackling climate change."

tsk tsk, tsk...  I know what he said.
I know what Penny said....
pssst...  they ain't the same things.
Oh and BTW...  warming cooling or stagnating....  no proof so far that man made emissions are causing any form of catastrophic warming.

Oh dear did you get sucked in by the emotive propaganda film at the start of the environmental nazi convention?

Now that was sad.

http://www.lookandlearn.com/blog/images/A003283.jpg

Temperatures, go no further!

Quote:

Antarctic temperatures disagree with climate model predictions COLUMBUS , Ohio – A new report on climate over the world's southernmost continent shows that temperatures during the late 20th century did not climb as had been predicted by many global climate models. This comes soon after the latest report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that strongly supports the conclusion that the Earth's climate as a whole is warming, largely due to human activity. It also follows a similar finding from last summer by the same research group that showed no increase in precipitation over Antarctica in the last 50 years. Most models predict that both precipitation and temperature will increase over Antarctica with a warming of the planet. David Bromwich, professor of professor of atmospheric sciences in the Department of Geography, and researcher with the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State University, reported on this work at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science at San Francisco. "It's hard to see a global warming signal from the mainland of Antarctica right now," he said. "Part of the reason is that there is a lot of variability there. It's very hard in these polar latitudes to demonstrate a global warming signal. This is in marked contrast to the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula that is one of the most rapidly warming parts of the Earth." Bromwich says that the problem rises from several complications. The continent is vast, as large as the United States and Mexico combined. Only a small amount of detailed data is available – there are perhaps only 100 weather stations on that continent compared to the thousands spread across the U.S. and Europe . And the records that we have only date back a half-century. "The best we can say right now is that the climate models are somewhat inconsistent with the evidence that we have for the last 50 years from continental Antarctica . "We're looking for a small signal that represents the impact of human activity and it is hard to find it at the moment," he said. Last year, Bromwich's research group reported in the journal Science that Antarctic snowfall hadn't increased in the last 50 years. "What we see now is that the temperature regime is broadly similar to what we saw before with snowfall. In the last decade or so, both have gone down," he said. In addition to the new temperature records and earlier precipitation records, Bromwich's team also looked at the behavior of the circumpolar westerlies, the broad system of winds that surround the Antarctic continent. "The westerlies have intensified over the last four decades of so, increasing in strength by as much as perhaps 10 to 20 percent," he said. "This is a huge amount of ocean north of Antarctica and we're only now understanding just how important the winds are for things like mixing in the Southern Ocean." The ocean mixing both dissipates heat and absorbs carbon dioxide, one of the key greenhouse gases linked to global warming. Some researchers are suggesting that the strengthening of the westerlies may be playing a role in the collapse of ice shelves along the Antarctic Peninsula. "The peninsula is the most northern point of Antarctica and it sticks out into the westerlies," Bromwich says. "If there is an increase in the westerly winds, it will have a warming impact on that part of the continent, thus helping to break up the ice shelves, he said. "Farther south, the impact would be modest, or even non-existent." Bromwich said that the increase in the ozone hole above the central Antarctic continent may also be affecting temperatures on the mainland. "If you have less ozone, there's less absorption of the ultraviolet light and the stratosphere doesn't warm as much." That would mean that winter-like conditions would remain later in the spring than normal, lowering temperatures. "In some sense, we might have competing effects going on in Antarctica where there is low-level CO2 warming but that may be swamped by the effects of ozone depletion," he said. "The year 2006 was the all-time maximum for ozone depletion over the Antarctic." Bromwich said the disagreement between climate model predictions and the snowfall and temperature records doesn't necessarily mean that the models are wrong. "It isn't surprising that these models are not doing as well in these remote parts of the world. These are global models and shouldn't be expected to be equally exact for all locations," he said.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-02/osu-atd021207.php

Quote:

Eco-warriors and media hype aside, the fact is, as we head into 2009, that the world's ice mass has been expanding not contracting. Which will surprise evening news junkies fed a diet of polar bears floating about on ice floes and snow shelves falling into the oceans. But if a whole series of reports on ice growth in the Arctic, the Antarctic and among glaciers are right, then it is truth in the mainstream media (MSM) that's in meltdown not the polar ice caps. The problem for the MSM is that it long ago nailed its colors to the climate alarmist mast. No ice cap meltdown, no rising waters. No disappearing islands, no reason for alarm. No alarm, no story. Worst of all having called yet another global apocalypse wrong: No credibility. So the MSM has a significant stake in running highly selective warm-mongering headlines. Not to mention disparaging those scientists who have the temerity to disagree as 'holocaust deniers' and 'pseudo-scientists'. There's nothing more the climate alarmist media loves than a 'melting Arctic' ice cap story. So why not stories from the far larger expanse of ice that is the 'melting' Antarctic? Well it might have something to do with the fact that the Antarctic ice grew to record levels in 2007 - and continues to grow. The Antarctic Climate scientist Dr Ben Herman, past director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics and former head of Atmospheric Sciences at the University of Arizona, notes that for the media, "What happens in the Arctic may be an indicator of what will happen in the rest of the world. How about what happens in the Antarctic then? Since its ice area has been increasing, is this also an indicator of what might be happening in the rest of the world?" The FACT is that the majority of Antarctica has cooled over the past 50 years and ice coverage has grown to record levels. Take the well-publicized collapse of a 160 square mile block of the Wilkins Ice Shelf in Antarctica in March 2008. For the alarmist media this was conclusive proof of the dramatic global warming effects. The Los Angeles Times ran, 'Antarctica Collapse' referring to the "rapid melt of the Wilkins Shelf". The Sydney Morning Herald ran 'Ice Shelf Hangs By a Thread' and the Salon online news site had the absurd headline 'Bye-bye Antarctica?'  But Joseph D'Aleo, first Director of Meteorology at The Weather Channel and Chief Meteorologist at Weather Services International, was more prosaic.  On his IceCap website, D'Aleo wrote that the collapse was the equivalent, given the enormity of Antarctica, of "an icicle falling from a snow and ice covered roof." He added, "The latest satellite images and reports suggest the ice has already refrozen around the broken pieces. In fact the ice is returning so fast, it is running an amazing 60 percent ahead of last year when it set a new record." Noting the ludicrous media hype, D`Aleo laments, "Yet the world is left with the false impression Antarctica's ice sheet is also starting to disappear."   Dr Herman adds an apposite footnote: "It is interesting that all of the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) stories concerning Antarctica are always about what's happening around the western peninsula, which seems to be the only place on Antarctica that has shown any warming." Herman asks, "How about the rest of the continent, which is probably about 95 percent of the land mass, not to mention the record sea ice coverage recently." Former Colorado State Climatologist and current senior scientist at the University of Colorado in Boulder, Dr Roger Pielke Sr is severely critical of the "typical bias that many journalists have." Pielke notes, "The media has ignored the increase in Antarctica sea ice cover in recent years, with at present, a coverage that is one million square kilometres above average." In December 2006, Dr Duncan Wingham, Professor of Climate Physics at University College London and Director for Polar Observation and Modelling, presented evidence that showed "Antarctic thinning was no more common than thickening". Wingham and his colleagues found that 72 percent of the Antarctica ice sheet was growing at the rate of 5 millimetres per year. Most significantly, Dr Wingham commits media heresy when he states: "That makes Antarctica a sink, not a source, of ocean water. According to their best estimates, Antarctica will 'lower global sea levels by 0.08 mm' per year." Sacrilege. Statistician Dr Bjorn Lomborg, author of The Skeptical Environmentalist and professor at the Copenhagen Business School, observes the media covers only the "2 percent of Antarctica [that] is dramatically warming and ignores the 98 percent that has largely cooled over the past 35 years." Lomborg also rounds on Al Gore who "points to shrinking sea ice in the Northern Hemisphere, but doesn't mention that sea ice in the Southern Hemisphere is increasing."

tbc

Quote:

Statistician Dr Bjorn Lomborg, author of The Skeptical Environmentalist and professor at the Copenhagen Business School, observes the media covers only the "2 percent of Antarctica [that] is dramatically warming and ignores the 98 percent that has largely cooled over the past 35 years." Lomborg also rounds on Al Gore who "points to shrinking sea ice in the Northern Hemisphere, but doesn't mention that sea ice in the Southern Hemisphere is increasing." And for those for whom the UN IPCC is the last word on all things climate, Dr Madhav L. Khandekar, retired Environment Canada scientist and an expert IPCC reviewer, says, "In the Southern Hemisphere, the land-sea mean temperature has slowly but surely declined in the last few years." He adds, "Several other locations in the Southern Hemisphere have experienced lower temperatures in the last few years" the result of "surface temperatures over world oceans slowly declining since mid-1998." Interestingly the very year the mean global temperature itself began a decline. Fair enough. But the Arctic is melting, right? Sorry, it just ain't that simple. October 2008 saw the fastest Arctic sea ice extent growth ever recorded. The Arctic During October and November 2008 the extent of Arctic ice was 28.7 percent greater than during the same period in 2007. According to data published by the International Arctic Research Center (IARC/JAXA) October 2008 saw "the fastest ever growth" of Arctic Sea ice since records began. Not good news for doomsayers like Dr Mark Serreze of the National Snow and Ice Data Center. Dr Serreze had predicted an ice-free North Pole in the summer of 2008. The Arctic has indeed undergone some warming in some areas, especially Greenland, a warming that culminated in a summer temperature high of 5 degrees C in 2007. The gradual melt has opened up the prospect of newly navigable seaways - and a rush for the Arctic's energy-rich deepwater reserves. The reality is, however, warming periods are nothing new to the Arctic. When the Vikings settled Greenland they grew crops in temperatures higher than those of today. The media has also made much of the potential opening of the Northwest Passage. But it rarely mentions that similar weather patterns prevailed in the 1930s when two boats, the Nascopie and Aklavik, famously met up in the Passage in 1937. In October 2008, a study by Ohio University confirmed that current Arctic warming patterns mimic those in the 1920s-1940s. By July 2008 the Arctic ice had increased by nearly half a million square miles over the same first half year period in 2007. A NASA study published in the peer-reviewed Geophysical Research Letters in October 2007 had already noted that thinning Arctic ice was more likely the result of "unusual winds" that had blown "older thicker" ice into warmer southern waters. In other words, the Arctic warming experienced more recently could well be the result of the unusual strength of winds, not man-made warming. According to the National Snow and Ice Data Center's own figures, world sea ice in April 2008 reached "unprecedented" levels for the month of April. The World Meteorlogical Organization (WMO) went to declare 2008 the coolest since 2000. Moreover, the WMO reports that the fall in the global mean temperature since 1998 is not just affecting the polar ice caps either, it is also affecting glaciers elsewhere. The Glaciers In October 2008, after a particularly bitterly cold Alaskan summer, glaciologists began reporting that Alaskan glaciers, particularly those at Glacier Bay where the shrinkage had mainly been had begun advancing for the first time in years. Glaciologist Bruce Molnia of the US Geological Survey said, "In mid-June, I was surprised to see snow still at sea level in Prince William Sound." He adds "On the Juneau Icefield, there was still 20 feet of new snow on the surface in late July. At Bering Glacier, a landslide I am studying did not become snow free until early August." In short, 2008 was the first time since record began that Alaskan glaciers did not shrink during the summer months. In late November 2008, reports from Norway showed that Alaska's glacier experience was being replicated there too. Hallgeir Elvehoy of the Norwegian Water Resources and Energy Directorate (NVE) reported that the magnitude of glacial growth appears to have been underway for two years. Glacier growth has also been reported from Canada and New Zealand. The facts adduced here represent just the tip of an under-reported iceberg (no pun intended). The fact that the world's ice mass is expanding not contracting is plainly of seismic importance in the climate debate. But, in many of its parts, the Western media appears to have a stake in freezing out the truth - having sold its journalistic soul for a mess of warm-mongering alarmist pottage.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/media_credibility_not_ice_caps_1.html

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 10^th, 2009 at 11:30am:

[quote]Antarctic temperatures disagree with climate model predictions COLUMBUS , Ohio – A new report on climate over the world's southernmost continent shows that temperatures during the late 20th century did not climb as had been predicted by many global climate models.

Ok Sprint - Do you know when that report came out? I do, but I just want to see if you can find out. Do you realise that there have been new studies since then that show a worrying reduction in ice even in Eastern Antarctica?

muso - first sentence says


Quote:

.........as we head into 2009, that the world's ice mass has been expanding not contracting ........

Do not take this the wrong way sprint, I am not trying to be condescending, just pointing out something that may not have passed your desk before.
We see an expectation from some quarters that global warming will be just like an oven, with temperature gradually rising relatively evenly over time, which is why some denialists say just adapt, make the best of it, etc.
But the effects predicted to occur because of the "WHOLE" planet heating up are not going to be even, and incremental, there will be events which trigger weather reactions which could include severe local cold areas when natural cycles we have become used to get interrupted.

Their is a chance that water from melting polar caps could alter sea temperature and currents such as the Gulf Stream could be adversely effected, which could then lead to a severe drop in temperature for the northern hemisphers countries whose weather is somewhat moderated away from extremes by that particular warm current.

Yes, even something we would already consider cold, like an ocean current, when even changed a small amount, could trigger extreme weather events that could produce severe local cooling for quite some time.

The unfortunate fact is that because of the success of Denialists, scientists are afraid to be seen as, or labeled as "Alarmists", but the possible consequences of continued Global Warming are certainly far more dire than the public appreciates.

muso wrote on Dec 11^th, 2009 at 11:58am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 10th, 2009 at 11:30am: [quote]Antarctic temperatures disagree with climate model predictions COLUMBUS , Ohio – A new report on climate over the world's southernmost continent shows that temperatures during the late 20th century did not climb as had been predicted by many global climate models. Ok Sprint - Do you know when that report came out? I do, but I just want to see if you can find out. Do you realise that there have been new studies since then that show a worrying reduction in ice even in Eastern Antarctica?

"Do you realise that there have been new studies since then that show a worrying [your pet worry here]   ..."

Yes, there have been new studies every minute, showing that red wine is good/not good for you, that you should jog more/less, eat more/less chocolate, fish, nuts, stay more/less in the sun, set/don't set boundaries for your children, that sharks, bats, whales, two-fingered sloths are/are not dying out, Australia should have more/fewer people and so on, and on and on, ad infinitum.

mozzaok wrote on Dec 11^th, 2009 at 12:54pm:

Do not take this the wrong way sprint, I am not trying to be condescending, just pointing out something that may not have passed your desk before. We see an expectation from some quarters that global warming will be just like an oven, with temperature gradually rising relatively evenly over time, which is why some denialists say just adapt, make the best of it, etc. But the effects predicted to occur because of the "WHOLE" planet heating up are not going to be even, and incremental, there will be events which trigger weather reactions which could include severe local cold areas when natural cycles we have become used to get interrupted. Their is a chance that water from melting polar caps could alter sea temperature and currents such as the Gulf Stream could be adversely effected, which could then lead to a severe drop in temperature for the northern hemisphers countries whose weather is somewhat moderated away from extremes by that particular warm current. Yes, even something we would already consider cold, like an ocean current, when even changed a small amount, could trigger extreme weather events that could produce severe local cooling for quite some time. The unfortunate fact is that because of the success of Denialists, scientists are afraid to be seen as, or labeled as "Alarmists", but the possible consequences of continued Global Warming are certainly far more dire than the public appreciates.

I have recently seen The Day After Tomorrow with the kids, too. Not as good as the Fifth Element.

Melanie Phillips has a good pointer to the The smoking iceberg:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5620571/the-smoking-iceberg.thtml


It has links to other sites as well. One shows how the data is (ahem) adjusted.

ANd in Copenhagen, the true nature of this whole climate warming/cooling/changing/justice/shakewdown is revealed: gissa job more moolah, man, or you are a racists carbon colonialist!!

mozzaok - I'm disappointed you won't be condescending to me.
There is probably hardly a person on the globe you would have more cause to be condescending to !!!!!!


What's to become of me if Mozzaok won't be condescending ?

O woe is me !

I can't help it sprint, even though you infuriate me at times when you say something particularly tasteless about racial issues, I still just like you, even though I shouldn't, you are just about the exact opposite to me in every political view, lol.
I guess I think that I see past the silly stuff you say sometimes and see a person I think would always do good rather than bad, if he could, and I rate that as a pretty important, positive charcter trait.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 11^th, 2009 at 12:21pm:

muso - first sentence says Quote: .........as we head into 2009, that the world's ice mass has been expanding not contracting ........

OK,

I was referring to the first cut and paste.  The link shows that it's February 2007. (pub_releases/2007-02/osu-atd021207.php)

THere have been reports issued since then that show that Antarctica is losing a significant mass of ice.

The increase in sea ice is consistent with an increased flow of ice off the landmass. It's a complex situation, but it can all be rendered as simplistic as you want - just add a few quotes from Lomborg and other self-styled experts, and quote the real experts out of context.