What is it about Western societies that causes kids to so often get guns and murder several people like this? It seems to be happening more and more, and honestly I can't say I've ever seen/heard of it happening in other societies. When will Western society wake up and realise it is sick? It needs help, it needs reform, it needs a moral re-awakening.

---

French teenager kills parents, brothers in Corsica

From correspondents in France, Agence France-Presse, August 14, 2009 07:07am

Family killed in Corsica
Family slain ... a police forensic expert leaves the home where the killings occurred / AFP

   * Parents, twin brothers dead
   * Used fathers shotgun
   * Wandered streets after murder

A FRENCH teenager has shot and killed his parents and twin brothers, apparently while they were asleep in their home on the island of Corsica, police say.

The 16-year-old boy was arrested after he told a friend who then alerted police about the quadruple homicide.

The teenager used his father's shotgun to kill both his parents, aged 43 and 45, and 10-year-old brothers at the house in the town of Albitreccia in southern Corsica yesterday.

Investigators said they had yet to establish a motive for the crime.

"He has not given any explanation, he is tired and in shock,"  police colonel Hubert Deininger said.

The teenager did provide investigators with information allowing them to recover the gun that belonged to his father.

Investigators were looking at the teenager's psychological profile.

Deininger noted he had "no criminal record, lived with his parents, in an average family".

The boy turned up with a relative at a police station in the early hours yesterday after apparently wandering the streets of the Porticcio area, meeting several people including a friend to whom he confessed, said deputy prosecutor Valerie Tavernier.

"Police immediately went to the scene and discovered the four bodies in the house with its shutters closed," Tavernier said.

Source: News.com.au

Quote:

What is it about Western societies that causes kids to so often get guns and murder several people like this? It seems to be happening more and more, and honestly I can't say I've ever seen/heard of it happening in other societies. When will Western society wake up and realise it is sick? It needs help, it needs reform, it needs a moral re-awakening.

Children aren't intimidated by their parents anymore in Western society and many of them are very spoilt. When their money supply is cut off - they can quite easily slaughter their parents in anger.

But child killing is probably more prevalent in other societies. Children are killed for all sorts of reasons, or sold by their parents. There is definitely an imbalance in family relationships wherever we look.

Quote:

But child killing is probably more prevalent in other societies. Children are killed for all sorts of reasons, or sold by their parents

You may have a point there mantra, but usually in those societies, they're sold because of extreme poverty. And even in Western societies where these kinds of horiffic crimes do occur against children, they are usually not committed due to poverty or necessity. Like the Baby P case I mentioned in another thread.

Western society seem to be suffering from 'having it too good', that people have nothing left to strive for, so they kill and maime and oppress and torture one another just for the sheer shock factor of it, it would seem.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 16^th, 2009 at 5:21pm:

Quote: But child killing is probably more prevalent in other societies. Children are killed for all sorts of reasons, or sold by their parents You may have a point there mantra, but usually in those societies, they're sold because of extreme poverty. And even in Western societies where these kinds of horiffic crimes do occur against children, they are usually not committed due to poverty or necessity. Like the Baby P case I mentioned in another thread. Western society seem to be suffering from 'having it too good', that people have nothing left to strive for, so they kill and maime and oppress and torture one another just for the sheer shock factor of it, it would seem.

Yes I'm sure thats the reason Abu, would have nothing to do with cultural upbringing now would it?..Just kill for the fun of it thats what dysfunctional inferior Westerners do?

So tell me how poverty relates to a child being sold..ie the morals and values that the parents in these families place upon that life of their own flesh..someone was hungry, had to buy a goat, needed gas for the car perhaps..?

What makes these crimes against humanity any different/less grave than in Western Culture..?

Quote:

would have nothing to do with cultural upbringing now would it?

Actually it's everything to do with culture. It's a product of a failed and wayward culture that has lost it's moral compass and just seems to feed of outstripping the previous generation in how 'bad' it can be.

Since it is your culture, I know you're going to find this hard to stomach, and I don't blame you for defending it.. but, there comes a time when people have to realise their culture is going downhill. I thank God that I was given such an opportunity.


Quote:

So tell me how poverty relates to a child being sold

That usually only occurs in countries like Laos or some African countries, where people are really sunk into poverty. They literally don't have money or belongings to feed themselves. It doesn't make it acceptable, but living in the comfort of the West, it's hard for us to judge them for it, really.


Quote:

What makes these crimes against humanity any different/less grave than in Western Culture..?

One is doing it out of necessity, through survival instinct perhaps? The other is just doing it out of boredom/psychological instability.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 16^th, 2009 at 6:23pm:

Quote: would have nothing to do with cultural upbringing now would it? Actually it's everything to do with culture. It's a product of a failed and wayward culture that has lost it's moral compass and just seems to feed of outstripping the previous generation in how 'bad' it can be. Since it is your culture, I know you're going to find this hard to stomach, and I don't blame you for defending it.. but, there comes a time when people have to realise their culture is going downhill. I thank God that I was given such an opportunity.

God, you are a prick.


"TUNISIA: WOMAN KILLS SON IN ORDER TO GET MARRIED
(ANSAmed) - TUNIS, AUGUST 12 - In order not to lose her fiancé a Tunisian women killed her 8-year-old son with the help of the man and another friend, then threw the boy's body down a well, reported Le Temps today. The victim, born out of wedlock, represented an obstacle to the couplés marriage and the woman's boyfriend required the mother to get rid of the child. The trio then decided to kill the boy, first beating and then strangling him. The women, who confessed to the crime, is in jail awaiting trail. Her accomplices are still fleeing from authorities. (ANSAmed). "


OR

"Illegal call traders held; two maids claim ‘rape’  
Kuwait : A man in charge of a maid recruiting agency has accused a Kuwaiti citizen of raping two Eritrean maids recruited by him, reports Al-Shahid.

OR

"Nepali maid dies after female sponsor bangs head with tile  
Kuwait : A Nepali housemaid died after her Kuwaiti female employer hit her on the head with a bathroom tile in Umm Al-Haiman, reports Al-Seyassah daily."

OR

"70-year-old hakeem rapes 80-year-old woman

LAHORE: A 70-year-old ‘hakeem’ allegedly raped an 80-year-old woman in his clinic after intoxicating her in Kot Lakhpat police precincts on Wednesday.

Kot Lakhpat police registered an FIR against the accused Ahmed Din and arrested him on the elderly woman’s complaint. The police registered an FIR on charges of rape, unnatural offence and intoxication.

The complainant, Fateh Bibi, in her application submitted that she went to Ashraf Dawakhana in Awami Colony for getting a medicine for her headache. She said the hakeem gave her some medicine and advised her to take it right then, saying that it would relieve her of pain immediately."


You can indeed thank Allan for being given the opportunity to belong to this shining and examplary culture. We are all looking for a way in, rest assured.


I don't know what trauma you had as a young person but by god, you are paying dearly if your penance is the burden of this culture. Alternatively, you must have had a monstrous life before your conversion if this is the culture that represents a relief in your life.

Those crimes are against Islamic culture, not for it.

The decadence of Western culture is a fundamental part of it. And since it is ever-changing, and permits pretty much anyhting to occur (so long as the plebs vote for it), then it just continues to get more and more decadent. Not so long ago adultery was forbidden, now it's fine, and rampant all through society, then homosexuality, what next? Take your pick, incest, paedophilia or bestiality... these are the three contenders on the horizon for the next taboo to be broken.

Killing of a child has NEVER been permitted in Islam for any reason whatsoever, I don't doubt it will one day be voted for in Western society, and in fact some would argue it already has (abortion). Might take some time, but it'll work it's way onto the books.

In the same way, the crime you indicated in Corsica are against their culture.
As per usual, there is no recommendation for that in the Bible.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 16^th, 2009 at 2:58pm:

What is it about Western societies that causes kids to so often get guns and murder several people like this? It seems to be happening more and more, and honestly I can't say I've ever seen/heard of it happening in other societies. When will Western society wake up and realise it is sick? It needs help, it needs reform, it needs a moral re-awakening.

Absolutely!




Exodus 20:1
And God spake all these words, saying,
2  I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3  Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6  And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7  Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12  Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13  Thou shalt not kill.
14  Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15  Thou shalt not steal.
16  Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17  Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Quote:

In the same way, the crime you indicated in Corsica are against their culture. As per usual, there is no recommendation for that in the Bible.

Doesn't stop people posting such things and trying to blame them on Islam.

So you can consider this a little taste of your own medicine.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 17^th, 2009 at 12:19am:

Those crimes are against Islamic culture, not for it. The decadence of Western culture is a fundamental part of it. And since it is ever-changing, and permits pretty much anyhting to occur (so long as the plebs vote for it), then it just continues to get more and more decadent. Not so long ago adultery was forbidden, now it's fine, and rampant all through society, then homosexuality, what next? Take your pick, incest, paedophilia or bestiality... these are the three contenders on the horizon for the next taboo to be broken. Killing of a child has NEVER been permitted in Islam for any reason whatsoever, I don't doubt it will one day be voted for in Western society, and in fact some would argue it already has (abortion). Might take some time, but it'll work it's way onto the books.

Everything bad in the West is due to  - Western culture.
Everything bad in Muslim places is also due to Western culture.

Muslims who do good have resisted the great tempter, the West
Muslims who do eviil have not resisted the great tempter, the West.

This is why Mohammedans like you are treated like petulant, emotionally incontinent children and get smacked more than anybody else. You are incapable of taking responsibility for your conduct.

Soren wrote on Aug 17^th, 2009 at 2:17pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 17th, 2009 at 12:19am: Those crimes are against Islamic culture, not for it. The decadence of Western culture is a fundamental part of it. And since it is ever-changing, and permits pretty much anyhting to occur (so long as the plebs vote for it), then it just continues to get more and more decadent. Not so long ago adultery was forbidden, now it's fine, and rampant all through society, then homosexuality, what next? Take your pick, incest, paedophilia or bestiality... these are the three contenders on the horizon for the next taboo to be broken. Killing of a child has NEVER been permitted in Islam for any reason whatsoever, I don't doubt it will one day be voted for in Western society, and in fact some would argue it already has (abortion). Might take some time, but it'll work it's way onto the books. Everything bad in the West is due to  - Western culture. Everything bad in Muslim places is also due to - Western culture. Muslims who do good have resisted the great tempter, the West Muslims who do eviil have not resisted the great tempter, the West. This is why Mohammedans like you are treated like petulant, emotionally incontinent children and get smacked more than anybody else. You are incapable of taking responsibility for your conduct.

LOL

That is succinct.

And a very true observation,        ....according to Mohammedan's that is!          :D

Quote:

Killing of a child has NEVER been permitted in Islam for any reason whatsoever, I don't doubt it will one day be voted for in Western society, and in fact some would argue it already has (abortion). Might take some time, but it'll work it's way onto the books.

Women have abortions for lots of reasons, many of them are raped or even gang raped, what happens in Muslim countries when women are gang raped, are they made to have the baby?

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 17^th, 2009 at 12:19am:

Killing of a child has NEVER been permitted in Islam for any reason whatsoever, I don't doubt it will one day be voted for in Western society, and in fact some would argue it already has (abortion). Might take some time, but it'll work it's way onto the books.

Lies, from a good moslem.





Proof.....

“Honor Killing” is Absolutely Islamic!
by Syed Kamran Mirza
01 Jul, 2005 (Updated 16 Jan, 2008)
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm




Google,
hadith justifies children "honour killing"
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=hadith+justifies+children+%22honour+killing%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=




Google,
site:http://www.jihadwatch.org/ hadith justifies "honour killing"
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2F+hadith+justifies+%22honour+killing%22&btnG=Search&meta=

wrote on Aug 17^th, 2009 at 3:59pm:

Quote: Killing of a child has NEVER been permitted in Islam for any reason whatsoever, I don't doubt it will one day be voted for in Western society, and in fact some would argue it already has (abortion). Might take some time, but it'll work it's way onto the books.     Women have abortions for lots of reasons, many of them are raped or even gang raped, what happens in Muslim countries when women are gang raped, are they made to have the baby?

skip,

They get 200 lashes for their unlawful 'promiscuity', and/or, they are often "honour" killed by their own families.

TRUTH


Google,
saudi rape victim
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=saudi+rape+victim&btnG=Search&meta=

Quote:

Women have abortions for lots of reasons, many of them are raped or even gang raped, what happens in Muslim countries when women are gang raped, are they made to have the baby?

Skippy, I'm not interested in "Muslim countries" since none of them actually implement the Islamic laws (some of them permit abortion for rape, some do not). But according to Islam, no she cannot abort the child. The child did not commit the crime and should not be punished by losing it's chance at life.

Do you think it's fair to punish the unborn baby?

Just because they haven't been born doesn't make them any less of a life, or deserving of life.

Quote:

Do you think it's fair to punish the unborn baby?

Yep.I don't give a toss about something not yet born.
Who are you to tell a woman she should keep a bastard baby from a gang rape just because it suits your fairy tale belief? you are very arrogant.

One wonders if the women gained control over muslim nations if the level of misogynist rules would be changed ?

At times I feel this is the most likely way islam will break from its past.


The degree of repression, oppression, totalitarism, decepetion, aggression shown from the islamic regions gives us all a BIG warning.

Skippy,


Quote:

Yep.I don't give a toss about something not yet born.

That's not a very humane attitude to take. Perhaps you'd like to have been spoken about that when you were still in utero?


Quote:

Who are you to tell a woman she should keep a bastard baby from a gang rape just because it suits your fairy tale belief? you are very arrogant.

Someone who believes life is too sacred to just 'discard' like that.

Sprint,


Quote:

One wonders if the women gained control over muslim nations if the level of misogynist rules would be changed ?

Not too clued up on world events are you?

In 1988, Benazir Bhutto became the first head of a modern "Muslim state". She served twice as Prime Minister.

Bangladesh has had two different female prime ministers during the past 20 years. Khaleda Zia served 3 consecutive terms, and Sheikah Hasina has served a few times I think.

When was Australia's first female PM again... ? Or America's first female President??

The first recorded female head of state in the Islamic world was Sultanah Shajra ad-Durr, who was appointed Sultanah in 1250. When was the first female elected to a Western government again???

The rules of Islam are the rules of Islam, and would be implemented by male or female Muslims alike. However, the things you are attacking are usually not part of Islam. Like the oppressive systems in Afghanistan which have no basis or precedent in Islam whatsoever.

Quote:

That's not a very humane attitude to take

Neither is suicide bombing.
It's not my right nor yours to tell a woman what to do with her body and the rest of her life after she has been raped.
What I do know is that in Australia a woman not only has a choice of what to do, she isn't subjected to a stoning or even death because of a group of mens actions.

Quote:

Neither is suicide bombing

The fact you resorted to such a baseless argument indicates you've really got nothing else worth saying. Nowhere have I said I support suicide bombings.


Quote:

It's not my right nor yours to tell a woman what to do with her body and the rest of her life after she has been raped.

But it's not her body, it's her unborn child's body. She has no right to terminate that life.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 18^th, 2009 at 2:37pm:

Quote: Neither is suicide bombing The fact you resorted to such a baseless argument indicates you've really got nothing else worth saying. Nowhere have I said I support suicide bombings.

You don't have to abu.

We all know that you are a good moslem.

And good moslems support the 'struggle' against 'unbelievers', until they convert, submit to ISLAM, or are killed for their rebellion against Allah.


ALL MOSLEMS who refuse to participate in the Jihad are called 'hypocrites' [unbelievers, non-moslems] by Mohammed.

I'm sure that i can dig up a Hadith verse that clearly states that.







Quote:

[quote]It's not my right nor yours to tell a woman what to do with her body and the rest of her life after she has been raped.

But it's not her body, it's her unborn child's body. She has no right to terminate that life.
[/quote]

Quote:

The fact you resorted to such a baseless argument indicates you've really got nothing else worth saying. Nowhere have I said I support suicide bombings

No need to sound soooooooooo defensive, you said I had an inhumane attitude, unborn babies should not take precedence over human beings that are already born.
I'm glad you don't support suicide bombing, so do you support the death penalty?  as that would be an inhumane attitude and you'd sound like a hypocrite.

Quote:

No need to sound soooooooooo defensive

If you don't resort to false arguments (which really had nothing to do with the topic at hand anyway), then I would have no need to point out that your mentioning of such things is out of place.


Quote:

you said I had an inhumane attitude, unborn babies should not take precedence over human beings that are already born.

The outcome you're proposing means taking a life. the outcome I am proposing doesn't take any life... unless of course you consider that raising a child takes your life? It would seem some today consider it to be like this... I don't.

Every life is a blessing, even if it came about through the wrong circumstances.


Quote:

I'm glad you don't support suicide bombing, so do you support the death penalty?  as that would be an inhumane attitude and you'd sound like a hypocrite.

That's a little different. The one who takes life, does not deserve to have life. Tbe unborn child, who you're proposing should have their life taken away didn't commit any crime, they are 100% pure innocence.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 18^th, 2009 at 2:37pm:

Nowhere have I said I support suicide bombings.

Nowhere have you said that you do NOT support suicide bombing.

You condone it, you accept it as justified. You defend the thinking behind it. You defend the peope whose tactic it is and whose goals you believe it furthers.  

You could not bring yourself to condemning it because that would mean condemning Muslims against infidels and you would never do that.

In this you are a perfect Mohammedan - primitive, tribal supremacist, pagan.

Quote:

Nowhere have you said that you do NOT support suicide bombing.

And nowhere have you said that you do NOT support African Christians performing voodoo on albinos and killing them for their body parts...

Shall we conclude from that you support them? and their practises?

Likewise nowhere have you said you do NOT support Orthodox Jews spitting all over Aussie journalists and kicking them in the head, shall we conclude you also support that?


Quote:

You defend the peope whose tactic it is and whose goals you believe it furthers.

I defend the right of people not to have foreigners from all around the world come into their country, boot them from their homes and herd them into refugee camps, yes. Doesn't mean I support every solitary act they carry out in resisting that tyranny.

You on the other hand clearly support that tyranny.


Quote:

primitive, tribal supremacist, pagan

Quite rich coming from someone who bows down and worships a human being, and probably has statues of him around.

Nowhere have I supported anything even remotely tribal. Islam clearly condemns tribalistic practises, and Muhammad (pbuh) clearly said "Whoever calls for tribalism or fights for tribalism or dies for tribalism, dies a death of pre-Islamic ignorance". You are judging Islam, based on the actions of ignorant people who've regressed from Islamic belief, back to their pre-Islamic practises.

Quote:

That's a little different.

Yep, I was right you're a hypocrite.  I'm glad we dont have to live by your  standards, why are god botherers soooooooo retard in their views?. You and your fictional beliefs are a danger to society.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 7:02am:

Quote: Nowhere have you said that you do NOT support suicide bombing. And nowhere have you said that you do NOT support African Christians performing voodoo on albinos and killing them for their body parts... Shall we conclude from that you support them? and their practises? Likewise nowhere have you said you do NOT support Orthodox Jews spitting all over Aussie journalists and kicking them in the head, shall we conclude you also support that?

But the very point, Bozo (may I call you Bozo?) is that by western standars ALL are equal before the law. In Mohamedanism, there are a fascist hierarchies everywhere - based on confession, sex, language. To me, a man's religion is never an issue for judging his acts. To you, it is the first principle.

That is the point, and your reflex attempt at equivocation is of no use.


Quote:

I defend the right of people not to have foreigners from all around the world come into their country, boot them from their homes and herd them into refugee camps, yes. Doesn't mean I support every solitary act they carry out in resisting that tyranny.

OK, give us an example where you condemn a Muslim for what he has done in the name of Islam against a non-muslim.  
( Got that? Three variables:
1. A Muslim doing a bad thing
2. Says he has done it in the name of Islam, as a Muslim
3. He has done it against non-Muslims)

Quote:

But the very point, Bozo (may I call you Bozo?)

You can call me whatever you like soren, whatever childish little nickname you choose will reflect more on your character (or lack thereof) than it will on me.


Quote:

To me, a man's religion is never an issue for judging his acts

This has gotta be the biggest load of crap I've ever seen you type.

You constantly accuse myself, and every other Muslim on the face of the earth of every little thing you can think of simply because of our religion. I have no doubt that if a light bulb goes out in your house, the first thing that pops into that sparsely populated cranium of yours is "I bet a Muhammaden made this light bulb!!".


Quote:

OK, give us an example where you condemn a Muslim for what he has done in the name of Islam against a non-muslim.

Not supporting something doesn't automatically mean condemning it. I know that might be hard for you to fathom as you are only capable of thinking in black and white.. in extreme opposites.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 7:02am:

Nowhere have I supported anything even remotely tribal. Islam clearly condemns tribalistic practises, and Muhammad (pbuh) clearly said "Whoever calls for tribalism or fights for tribalism or dies for tribalism, dies a death of pre-Islamic ignorance". You are judging Islam, based on the actions of ignorant people who've regressed from Islamic belief, back to their pre-Islamic practises.

Abu you have every right to defend your religion, but it’s a losing battle because the “extremists” demanding power have corrupted Islam in the public view. The ideology of Islam as the media portrays it is murderous, even though WW1, WWII, Vietnam, Afghanistan & Iraq were created by Christians and Jews.  

There are plenty who are suspicious of the events of 9/11, but the puppet governments and media directed us into believing that Bin Laden was responsible for the most sophisticated terror attack in modern history. War was planned in Afghanistan & Iraq long before 9/11 and someone had to be held accountable.

In regard to black Christians in Africa – many of their practises are abhorrent, but they’ve forgotten who their true God is thanks to western intervention. It’s the same with Islam – it's corrupted by western interference. Nothing is going to change until extremists from either side are wiped out and that’s not going to happen.

yes abu, you have every right to defend your belief, because you are in a free society.

in many muslims countries, there is NO rights for nonmuslims.

Your belief sucks bad. every nonmuslim dislikes muslims the more we learn of it.

Quote:

Abu you have every right to defend your religion, but it’s a losing battle

Well I always like to remain optimistic mantra. I never give up hope that people will eventually wake up to the reality and see things as they are. And if I can contribute in countering the false image of Islam, then I'll try my best to do so. But you could be right in that many here are not interested in knowing. They base their beliefs on their prejudices and seek out anything that can confirm or validate them, whilst completely overlooking anything to the contrary.


Quote:

The ideology of Islam as the media portrays it is murderous, even though WW1, WWII, Vietnam, Afghanistan & Iraq were created by Christians and Jews.

Although this was largely the case at the beginning of the "war on terror", the tables have turned a lot since then. There are plenty of 'alternative' media outlets, such as al-Jazeerah and PressTV now broadcasting in English all over the world, so people are seeing that what their media reports is not always the full story. Even our own ABC and a lot of the time the BBC are also giving a lot more balanced coverage too. So the content is there, for those who are not just content with the propaganda of the major Western media outlets.


Quote:

It’s the same with Islam – it's corrupted by western interference. Nothing is going to change until extremists from either side are wiped out and that’s not going to happen.

It is definitely true that the West had a major hand in creating and arming and training the resistance groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan who have now turned on them, but as Michael Scheuer (former head of the CIA's bin Laden unit) notes, the "extremist" Muslims appear extreme because they're resisting our invasions into their land, they were never the "unthinkable, gotta wipe them out before they destroy the whole world, extremists" we now proclaim them to be, when they were fighting the Soviets on our behalf. So perhaps they're not as extreme as we're led to believe. All of the 'evidence' used to show us they are extreme is based on their reactions to our invasions of their lands... surely the one defending his own home has a right to be a little 'extreme'? I hardly think any of the good Aussie Nationalists here would be sitting at home watching the cricket whilst the Chinese stormed into Australia to invade it.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 10:38am:

All of the 'evidence' used to show us they are extreme is based on their reactions to our invasions of their lands... surely the one defending his own home has a right to be a little 'extreme'?

Lovely. So the Taliban is defending its homeland by killing other Muslims. Brilliant.
What's a 'little' extreme and misdirected violence between Muslims, eh? It's all one ummah.

As you are so fond of saying, it's OK, they are only Muslims. Well, the bearded monsters don't seem to be bothered and you, having a beard, seem to also be cool with a bit of 'extreme' Mulism killing by other Muslims as long as you can waive the hand and say it's all in defence of the fatherland against invading infidels.

abu -
Quote:

......such as al-Jazeerah ..........

was that the tv station run by islamics showing their kiddies how cartoon characters want them to be martyers???

yes, yes, I can see why the free world finds your belief repugnant.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 10:38am:

.....surely the one defending his own home has a right to be a little 'extreme'?

abu,

You didn't make that argument when Aussies in Cronulla decided that enough was enough, and decided to defend their women, from the constant abuse by local moslems, at local beaches.

soren,


Quote:

Lovely. So the Taliban is defending its homeland by killing other Muslims. Brilliant.

Resistance forces are fighting those who assist the invaders... I'm sure you'd offer the same courtesy to any fellow Aussies that decided to assist China invading Australia.. would you not? Or you'd sit down with them and say "We're all Aussies here, I'll go out and resist the Chinese, and you can assist them, but we won't fight one another" Yeh right.

sprint,


Quote:

was that the tv station run by islamics showing their kiddies how cartoon characters want them to be martyers???

I think not.

Never mind though, it matches the rest of your 'information' about Muslims quite nicely :)

Yadda,


Quote:

You didn't make that argument when Aussies in Cronulla decided that enough was enough

I didn't? I don't believe we ever conversed during the Cronulla riots...

Never mind though, just form my supposed opinion for me, based on my religious profile... should be enough to fuel your blind hatred for a little longer.

you are quite right abu.
it was a hamas tv station that did it
another bunch of islamic terrorists/murderers

typical of you to only partially answer a query. quite deceptive.

yes, here is the islamics abu so refuses to speak out agianst.


Quote:

Hamas TV has a new children's show which features a Mickey Mouse look-alike. But this Mickey does not romp about with Pluto, he teaches his young viewers to fight the "Zionist Occupation" and dream of a world dominated by Islam. The show, called "Tomorrow's Pioneers", features a giant black-and-white Mickey Mouse-like character, called "farfour," or butterfly in Arabic. The program made headlines worldwide because the character has preached against Israel and the US and praised armed resistance. According to Palestinian Media Watch , "using a character based on an appealing, world-famous and beloved icon like Mickey Mouse to teach Islamic supremacy and resistance as Islamic duty is a powerful and effective way to indoctrinate children." The program encourages participation by child viewers, who phone in to the show and recite poems with images of hate and violence; for example, "We will destroy the chair of the despots, so they will taste the flame of death," and, in another poem, "Rafah sings ‘Oh, oh.' Its answer is an AK-47. We who do not know fear, we are the predators of the forest."

typically islamic

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 2:15pm:

Yadda, Quote: You didn't make that argument when Aussies in Cronulla decided that enough was enough I didn't? I don't believe we ever conversed during the Cronulla riots... Never mind though, just form my supposed opinion for me, based on my religious profile... should be enough to fuel your blind hatred for a little longer.

abu,

Based on your religious profile, i know that moslems NEVER cause wars, and are NEVER responsible for violence.

Non-moslems cause wars/violence, by resisting ISLAM and its 'peace'.
/sarc off





Islam 101: A Lexicon for Dummies.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34806



July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels
......The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of "opening" the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur'an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, creating obstacles for the da'wa, are blamed for this state of war, for the da'wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it. In other words, those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them.
......It's "oppression" when Muslim immigrants in the West must live by the same, secular laws as the native infidels, [and] not sharia,
......The Saudi deputy minister of religious endowments, Abd Al-Rahman Al-Matroudi, stated in an interview on Saudi TV in July 2005 that "the definition of terrorism that concerns us is that it is any act or statement that contradicts the Koran or Sunna, whether in thought or action." He also said that Muslims should "impose their culture," and that peaceful ways should be pursued only when they were not strong enough to do this....
.....Aggression is something only infidels do.
.....it is not seen as aggression or war when Muslims attack non-Muslims. On the contrary, it is seen as aggression when non-Muslims resist the Islamization of their lands and thus "place obstacles in the way" of the spread of Islam. They are defying the will of Allah. Since subjugation to Islam alone can bring peace, Muslims consider themselves to be "spreading peace"...
......[To the muslim mind,] Aggression: [Is...] When non-Muslims do anything to preserve their culture and resist the Islamization of their country. Even when this "aggression" is non-violent, such as publishing a cartoon critical of Islam, this intolerable insult to Islamic supremacy on earth can be answered with violence by Muslims. Since a refusal to submit to sharia is a rebellion against Allah, the very existence of non-Muslim communities can be viewed as an act of aggression.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 10:29am:

yes abu, you have every right to defend your belief, because you are in a free society. in many muslims countries, there is NO rights for nonmuslims. Your belief sucks bad. every nonmuslim dislikes muslims the more we learn of it.

It does make me wonder why some one who hates what this country stands for and its moderate law system would want to live here. Australia seems to be everything you dont like in life abu.

Yadda,


Quote:

Based on your religious profile, i know that moslems NEVER cause wars, or are responsible for violence.

Then why even question it? Since you already know my position ahead of time..

sprint,


Quote:

yes, here is the islamics abu so refuses to speak out agianst.

I spoke about al-Jazeerah, a Qatar based News channel, which is certainly not "islamist". They might offer a different view to what you're used to, but they certainly are not pushing any Islamist agenda. Most of their female presenters don't even wear hijab. They are a purely secular Arabic-based news network, and are famous for their independant reporting, a rarity in the region.

Why you need to try and divert everything off topic always with some rant/link to what Hamas or someone else does, is beyond me. The ironic thing is, you then love to call me a deflector  ;D

Quote:

Australia seems to be everything you dont like in life abu.

I think you're going overboard a bit there Skippy. I don't like some of the policies of the Australian government, neither do a lot of other Australians. Does that mean it's "everything I don't like in life"?? Hardly.

wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 2:38pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 19th, 2009 at 10:29am: yes abu, you have every right to defend your belief, because you are in a free society. in many muslims countries, there is NO rights for nonmuslims. Your belief sucks bad. every nonmuslim dislikes muslims the more we learn of it. It does make me wonder why some one who hates what this country stands for and its moderate law system would want to live here. Australia seems to be everything you dont like in life abu.

Moslems are irrational persons.

The technical term for their mental condition is, 'stark raving bonkers'....

extermists too extreme for extremists
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1250479466/5#5



Moslems tolerance / encouragement of violence against innocent people, to me, is an indication of insanity.

Quote:

The technical term for their mental condition is, 'stark raving bonkers'....

Quite amusing coming from you Yadda :)

I doubt there's a single poster here who doesn't consider you a raving loon.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 2:41pm:

Yadda, Quote: Based on your religious profile, i know that moslems NEVER cause wars, or are responsible for violence. Then why even question it? Since you already know my position ahead of time..

abu,

I want every non-moslem that i can reach, to understand, what ISLAM / moslems represent in this world.

What ISLAM / moslems represents, disgusts me.

And i would like everyone to share my knowledge of ISLAM / moslems.



ISLAM / moslems = = lies, deception, violence.

ISLAM, is a sickness, and an evil political tyranny.

abu - question is, does yaddas belief promote violence against those who disagree with him?

Answer is no.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 2:49pm:

Quote: The technical term for their mental condition is, 'stark raving bonkers'.... Quite amusing coming from you Yadda :) I doubt there's a single poster here who doesn't consider you a raving loon.

abu,

I am proud to say that i follow 'another' path.

I am NOT a herd animal.




Me, ........normal??

Lord, i hope not!!

Just look at this world!!!

And look at the conduct of all of the 'normal' people, in countries like Australia!!

'Normal' people, today, are irrational, many are insane!




I thank my God,
I am, definitely, not normal!







Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8  For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9  Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10  Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11  If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12  Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Hebrews 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.






Not 'normal'...

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18  I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19  Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21  He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


Psalms 25:12
What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13  His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14  The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Quote:

I want every non-moslem that i can reach, to understand, what ISLAM / moslems represent in this world.

I'd say it's more about you being envious of Islam. That it is seeing a huge revival amongst it's followers, whilst your own religion is being swept into obscurity. And Christians today think they can use that to leverage their own religion back into a more prominent position in the former Christian societies. You think by attacking Islam, and ranting and raving about how evil it is, people will think they need Christianity. News, nothing is going to save Christianity, it's followers dwindle more and each day.

Quote:

abu - question is, does yaddas belief promote violence against those who disagree with him?

I'd have to disagree. I'd say someone like Yadda, and probably yourself also, are prime candidates for whackjobs, who'd go around committing violence against others, just because they happened to be from a certain religion, for instance.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 3:22pm:

Quote: I want every non-moslem that i can reach, to understand, what ISLAM / moslems represent in this world. I'd say it's more about you being envious of Islam. That it is seeing a huge revival amongst it's followers, whilst your own religion is being swept into obscurity. And Christians today think they can use that to leverage their own religion back into a more prominent position in the former Christian societies. You think by attacking Islam, and ranting and raving about how evil it is, people will think they need Christianity. News, nothing is going to save Christianity, it's followers dwindle more and each day.

abu, abu,

You are so mistaken.

I have no such qualms as you describe.

I am, certainly, not envious of ISLAM.

To suggest such a thing is ludicrous.


I do not believe that there will be any great 'revival' within Christianity.

Men are vain.

Men are proud.

Christianity, has corrupted itself.

Only a remnant will be redeemed [i believe].






abu,

My God is the God of righteousness [quality],
.....not the God of mammon, or the God of 'plenty', or the God of quantity.


Matthew 5:6
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
....10  Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11  Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.


Jeremiah 9:23
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24  But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.








Why do i post here?

Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 9:58am:

Quote: To me, a man's religion is never an issue for judging his acts This has gotta be the biggest load of crap I've ever seen you type. You constantly accuse myself, and every other Muslim on the face of the earth of every little thing you can think of simply because of our religion.

Ah ah. I accuse you on the basis of what yoiu say and do. Your co-religionists are committing outrages daily in the name of Islam.

They are saying that. They are justifying their deeds in the name of Islam. You do your forum jihad in the name of Islam.

You are tyhe ones who bring islam into everything, very act, every thought, every argument. Everything. You cannot be separated from it, you do not WANT to be separated from  it. You act and speak Islamically and you say so yourselves.

So don't come the stupid human right activist to me, equivocating AS IF you believed in equality.

Quote:

Ah ah. I accuse you on the basis of what yoiu say and do.

No, usually just on the basis I'm a Muslim and some other Muslim is doing something you don't like, so therefore I must be responsible for him.


Quote:

Your co-religionists are committing outrages daily in the name of Islam.

Precisely.


Quote:

very act, every thought, every argument. Everything. You cannot be separated from it, you do not WANT to be separated from  it. You act and speak Islamically and you say so yourselves.

I wish I was as pious as you describe, but alas I am not.

Yes I want to submit to my creator in everything I do, of course. What sincere soul would not?

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 8:53pm:

Quote: Ah ah. I accuse you on the basis of what yoiu say and do. No, usually just on the basis I'm a Muslim and some other Muslim is doing something you don't like, so therefore I must be responsible for him. [quote]Your co-religionists are committing outrages daily in the name of Islam.

Precisely.


Quote:

very act, every thought, every argument. Everything. You cannot be separated from it, you do not WANT to be separated from  it. You act and speak Islamically and you say so yourselves.

I wish I was as pious as you describe, but alas I am not.

Yes I want to submit to my creator in everything I do, of course. What sincere soul would not?
[/quote]


Please do not pretend to be so thick. Move your lips if you must:
in the name of Islam.

You can't really miss the pertinent point every time, can you?

It doesn't matter if they do it in the name of Charles Dickens, you still _DO_ judge people based don their religion, and your misconceptions about it. Something you claim you do not do.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 9:33pm:

It doesn't matter if they do it in the name of Charles Dickens, you still _DO_ judge people based don their religion, and your misconceptions about it. Something you claim you do not do.

OK, go ahead, DO pretend that you are so thick and don't understand. We'll just stand around and snigger, as usual.

I know, I know  - judging socialism by North Korea's example is a misconception just as judging Islam by the reality of actual Muslim countries is a misconception. True islam is in your head, not in the actual real world. You are a dangerous fantasist, like the terrorists and fantasists before you, so well depicted by joseph Conrad over a 100 years ago.

Nothing cahnges. A bolshevik one century, an Islamist the next. The fantasy remains.

Quote:

I know, I know  - judging socialism by North Korea's example is a misconception just as judging Islam by the reality of actual Muslim countries..

Unlike North Korea and socialism, Islam has been implemented, for over 1300 years, so we do have a real example of it's implementation. It is not a pipedream, it is not an elusive fantasy that can't be seen in implementation, it can.

Therefore your post is nothing but the usual tripe.

abu - I was under the impression you had said a true islam state does not exist and had never existed

If it has, where and when ?
What happened to it ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 20^th, 2009 at 8:22am:

abu - I was under the impression you had said a true islam state does not exist and had never existed If it has, where and when ? What happened to it ?

sprint,

A perfect ISLAMIC society cannot exist, until the last Zionist [all jews] are killed by moslems.

The only reason there is no perfect ISLAMIC state already today, is due to all of the Zionist plots, which are destroying felicity in ISLAMIC societies.
/sarc off





http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200908/r420911_1999877.jpg
Those Zionists are at it again in Baghdad!!
/sarc off


2009-08-20
At least 95 people have been killed and more than 500 injured in a series of bomb blasts and mortar attacks in central Baghdad.
The co-ordinated attacks saw at least six truck and car bombs, as well as mortars, exploding at various high-profile targets in the heart of the city.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/19/2661003.htm








http://www.jihadwatch.org/PATV300307.jpg
April 13, 2007
Hamas Spokesman: Genocide of Jews remains Hamas goal
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016038.php






But it is strange, how all societies with sizeable moslem communities, seem to be the ones racked by social division and violence.

Quote:

abu - I was under the impression you had said a true islam state does not exist and had never existed

Like with most of your assumptions sprint it is false.

I've stated quite clearly many times that an Islamic society, implementing Islam existed for around 1250 years.


Quote:

If it has, where and when ? What happened to it ?

When: From the time of it's establishment in the 7th. century, until 1924 when it was officially abolished.

Where: It began with it's capital in Medinah, and ended with it's capital in Constantinople.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 3:22pm:

[quote]News, nothing is going to save Christianity, it's followers dwindle more and each day.

Yes, if you don't count the Africans and the Chinese. But if you do, then - watch out, behind you!!

Africans are embracing the religion of food (that you hand out in little parcels with your Bibles).

Chinese are embracing the religion of money... which goes hand in hand with the consumerist culture of the Christian West, you know Christmas, Easter and all that jazz.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19^th, 2009 at 2:15pm:

soren, Quote: Lovely. So the Taliban is defending its homeland by killing other Muslims. Brilliant. Resistance forces are fighting those who assist the invaders... I'm sure you'd offer the same courtesy to any fellow Aussies that decided to assist China invading Australia.. would you not? Or you'd sit down with them and say "We're all Aussies here, I'll go out and resist the Chinese, and you can assist them, but we won't fight one another" Yeh right.

This shows just how alien you are.  Those 'invaders' want to give a say to all people in how their country is run (men and women), without corruoption, nepotism, without tribal feuding. These invaders want to get them al out of the pre-medieval mindset that they and you seem to rejoice in. But to you and all the other blood-curdling bearded monsters, it is anathema because it is not the 7th century Mohammedan mental framework.



Yet, when it suits your Squealer propaganda purposes you don't mind deploying a bit of modern human rights rhetoric and liberation speak and all that stuff you cannot and do not believe.


Two faced doesn't even begin to describe it. And the thing is, you are not the first of these Mohamedan deceivers , there is plenty of historical examples of what you are doing. You even have your Arabic word for it. It is only the Mantras and Gaybries of this world who are still sucked in by it because, deep down they want to be dominated by strong hairy barbarians. They have jungle fever.

Soren wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 9:12pm:

Two faced doesn't even begin to describe it. And the thing is, you are not the first of these Mohamedan deceivers , there is plenty of historical examples of what you are doing. You even have your Arabic word for it. It is only the Mantras and Gaybries of this world who are still sucked in by it because, deep down they want to be dominated by strong hairy barbarians. They have jungle fever.

I don't think so Soren ::) - although I can't speak for Gaybriel.  I've read a few books recently by female Muslim authors living in the ME and I wouldn't trade places with them for all the cash in the world. I've got a book written by a male Muslim now, which I'll begin this w/e and look at Islam from his perspective, although I doubt I'll be impressed - unless he's a liberated moderate.

If I'd been born in a predominantly Muslim society - I would have been murdered by now. Muslim women in western countries are the lucky ones and can usually walk away if they really want to.

mantra wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 9:49pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 21st, 2009 at 9:12pm: Two faced doesn't even begin to describe it. And the thing is, you are not the first of these Mohamedan deceivers , there is plenty of historical examples of what you are doing. You even have your Arabic word for it. It is only the Mantras and Gaybries of this world who are still sucked in by it because, deep down they want to be dominated by strong hairy barbarians. They have jungle fever. I don't think so Soren ::) - although I can't speak for Gaybriel.  I've read a few books recently by female Muslim authors living in the ME and I wouldn't trade places with them for all the cash in the world. I've got a book written by a male Muslim now, which I'll begin this w/e and look at Islam from his perspective, although I doubt I'll be impressed - unless he's a liberated moderate. If I'd been born in a predominantly Muslim society - I would have been murdered by now. Muslim women in western countries are the lucky ones and can usually walk away if they really want to.

Fine, I take it back. I am sorry if I misconstrued your outlook.

Apologies.

Quote:

Fine, I take it back. I am sorry if I misconstrued your outlook.

I didn't think you were that serious, but I do agree with Abu's general political view on the situation in the ME, especially in regard to the Palestinians and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Fighting for women's rights in places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran etc. would be futile as the males hold so much power.

mantra - it's not that they are males.
it's that they are rabid muslims.

what a completely buggered belief.
no wonder the whole of the rest of the informed world wants them all to off themselves.

abu - praised your paedophile pants prophet with the rest of your intolerant creeps?

mantra wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 10:14pm:

Quote: Fine, I take it back. I am sorry if I misconstrued your outlook. I didn't think you were that serious, but I do agree with Abu's general political view on the situation in the ME, especially in regard to the Palestinians and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Fighting for women's rights in places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran etc. would be futile as the males hold so much power.

Interesting.

Well, if you think you can separate their politics and the misonygy then you are an even bigger fool than I first thought.

If so, I take back the taking back.

Soren wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 10:49pm:

mantra wrote on Aug 21st, 2009 at 10:14pm: Quote: Fine, I take it back. I am sorry if I misconstrued your outlook. I didn't think you were that serious, but I do agree with Abu's general political view on the situation in the ME, especially in regard to the Palestinians and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Fighting for women's rights in places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran etc. would be futile as the males hold so much power. Interesting. Well, if you think you can separate their politics and the misonygy then you are an even bigger fool than I first thought. If so, I take back the taking back.

Well, soren should know all about being a fool, he's an expert at it.

Soren wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 10:49pm:

Interesting. Well, if you think you can separate their politics and the misonygy then you are an even bigger fool than I first thought. If so, I take back the taking back.

They don’t hate women Soren, but have been taught they are protecting them. Modesty and domesticity might have suited the Prophet’s wives but it doesn’t suit the women today - unfortunately for them.

We might not agree with some of the Koran’s primitive philosophy, but it hasn’t been necessary to inflict even more suffering on those who are innocent by violently invading their countries on lies.

There is always the excuse of 9/11, but if we weren’t so dumbed down – we would have questioned this a little more intensely.

mantra wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 9:00am:

Soren wrote on Aug 21st, 2009 at 10:49pm: Interesting. Well, if you think you can separate their politics and the misonygy then you are an even bigger fool than I first thought. If so, I take back the taking back. Quote: They don’t hate women Soren, but have been taught they are protecting them. Modesty and domesticity might have suited the Prophet’s wives but it doesn’t suit the women today - unfortunately for them. It's not hating women, it's considering women as property thats the problem, not independent people that have their own free will. [quote]We might not agree with some of the Koran’s primitive philosophy, but it hasn’t been necessary to inflict even more suffering on those who are innocent by violently invading their countries on lies.

Afghanistan was no lie. They killed 3000 people in the US and declared war. That's just too bad.

As for Iraq, Saddam Hussein had killed about 500,000 to 1 million of his own people during his regime. He was in power with the most evil of regimes that rivalled the Third Reich for depravity. He committed genocide on the marsh arabs by draining their swamps, and killed people by grinding them up in wood chippers and plastic recycling machines that he watched videos of for his amusement. Another favourite was to give thirsty prisoners petrol to drink.

If I was living in Iraq, I would have preyed for anyone to come remove Saddam. The removal of Saddam was worthwhile, the same as removing Hitler was worthwhile. Yes the public was sold lies as to the reason why they were doing it, but the public ARE ALWAYS SOLD LIES. Just the little bit I see behind the scenes, demonstrates that the lies are continual and audacious, and the public does not want to know the truth.


Quote:

There is always the excuse of 9/11, but if we weren’t so dumbed down – we would have questioned this a little more intensely.

The public is too dumbed down to ever understand the reasons why things are done, and it cannot be explained to them because they do not have the inclination, patience or ability to understand the solutions to difficult problems. Even me trying to explain it, people go blah blah blah too hard.

There is just right and wrong, and some things such as the rights of women, are not negotiable.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 20^th, 2009 at 7:20am:

.....Unlike North Korea and socialism, Islam has been implemented, for over 1300 years, so we do have a real example of it's implementation. It is not a pipedream, it is not an elusive fantasy that can't be seen in implementation, it can.

For all of its history, ISLAM, has been a leech, upon the jugular of mankind.

Nothing more.

Yadda wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 3:23pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 20th, 2009 at 7:20am: .....Unlike North Korea and socialism, Islam has been implemented, for over 1300 years, so we do have a real example of it's implementation. It is not a pipedream, it is not an elusive fantasy that can't be seen in implementation, it can. For all of its history, ISLAM, has been a leech, upon the jugular of mankind. Nothing more.

Quote:

"The River War: An Account of the Reconquest of Sudan", Churchill wrote on pages 248-250 of the second volume: ""How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. "Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

http://www.islam-watch.org/AdrianMorgan/Winston-Churchill-Islamism.htm

Islam is a parasitic philosophy built on slavery. Its societies cannot exist on their own, without the crutch of petroleum. Wherever there is no petroleum (or diamonds, and sometimes even where there is) the adherents of Islam are desperately poor. It is a religion based on plunder and banditry, which needs dhimmis to do the work and make the money. Part of the dhimmitude tax or jizya now is all of the foreign aid we give these islamic countries. Unable to stand on their own two feet, because of their flawed bone idle superstitious nonsense prevents them from being productive, creative and prosperous like ssecular democracy.

wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 8:38am:

Soren wrote on Aug 21st, 2009 at 10:49pm: mantra wrote on Aug 21st, 2009 at 10:14pm: Quote: Fine, I take it back. I am sorry if I misconstrued your outlook. I didn't think you were that serious, but I do agree with Abu's general political view on the situation in the ME, especially in regard to the Palestinians and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Fighting for women's rights in places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran etc. would be futile as the males hold so much power. Interesting. Well, if you think you can separate their politics and the misonygy then you are an even bigger fool than I first thought. If so, I take back the taking back. Well, soren should know all about being a fool, he's an expert at it.

Yes, all I have to ever ask: what would skippy say? and the I know what the fool's answer is for whatever dilemma I may be facing.
This is the royal road to expertise in fools. Recommend it highly. Even to you, skippy. Whatever your heart or instioct says - say the opposite. You'll be surprised how successful and admired you will become in quite a short time. It will be a novel experience but go on, risk it.

Quote:

Whatever your heart or instioct says - say the opposite. You'll be surprised how successful and admired you will become in quite a short time. It will be a novel experience but go on, risk it.

I figured you must have done that, no bodies brain could be as damaged to think of the s hit that you write.

Quote:

Whatever your heart or instioct says - say the opposite

Run out of things to say now soren? That you're taking your ideas from Seinfeld episodes? And from Costanza no less  ;D

Soren wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2009 at 8:45pm:

Quote: Well, soren should know all about being a fool, he's an expert at it. Yes, all I have to ever ask: what would skippy say? and the I know what the fool's answer is for whatever dilemma I may be facing. This is the royal road to expertise in fools. Recommend it highly. Even to you, skippy. Whatever your heart or instioct says - say the opposite. You'll be surprised how successful and admired you will become in quite a short time. It will be a novel experience but go on, risk it.

;D       ;D       ;D

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 24^th, 2009 at 10:26am:

Quote: Whatever your heart or instioct says - say the opposite Run out of things to say now soren? That you're taking your ideas from Seinfeld episodes? And from Costanza no less  ;D

Ah yes! The anti-George!

"Hi, my name is George. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents"  ;D ;D ;D

Yet another mass shooting in a Christian nation.

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Gun attack kills eight in Mexico

Eight people died when gunmen opened fire on a crowd partying in a Mexican coastal town, police say.

The shooting took place in a boulevard in Navolato, Sinaloa state, said to be a popular weekend gathering place for young people.

Local media said most of the victims were aged between 15 and 20.

Sinaloa, which lies on Mexico's northern Pacific coast, is a drug trafficking hotspot and a stronghold for the notorious Sinaloa cartel.

State spokesman Martin Robles said the gunmen fired into the crowd with AK-47 rifles on Saturday night.

He said the motive for the shooting was not yet known.

At least three other people were reported to have been injured.

Source: BBC