Finally somone's beginning to talk some sense...

---

UK MPs urge talks with Hamas

British legislators have urged the government to talk to moderates within Hamas, saying the West's policy of shunning the Palestinian group was showing little sign of success. Russia is the only member of the Quartet of Middle East peace brokers, which also comprises the United States, the United Nations and the European Union, talking to Hamas. The British parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee said in a report on Sunday it stood by a recommendation it first made two years ago that the government should engage politically with moderate elements within Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip.

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Images//2009/6/5/200965212413143360_5.jpg Brown's government says it is open to talks with  Hezbollah, but not with Hamas [Reuters]

"We conclude that there continue to be few signs that the current policy of non-engagement is achieving the Quartet's stated objectives," the committee said.

"We further conclude that the credible peace process for which the Quartet hopes, as part of its strategy for undercutting Hamas, is likely to be difficult to achieve without greater co-operation from Hamas itself."

Incentives

The committee, made up of MPs from all the main political parties, said it was dismayed that, six months after the end of fighting in Gaza, there was still no ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas.

There had been little change to several issues that contributed to the conflict, it said.

"We conclude that this situation makes for an ongoing risk of insecurity and a renewed escalation of violence," it said.

The committee said it was concerned the Quartet was failing to provide Hamas with greater incentives to change its position.

It said Britain should talk to Hamas moderates as a way of encouraging the group to meet the Quartet principles.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown's government changed policy in March by saying it was open to talks with the political wing of Lebanon's Iranian-backed Hezbollah, but it remains opposed to talking to Hamas.

Israel invaded Gaza on December 27, 2008 and fighting continued until January 18, 2009, killing more than 1,000 people.

Source: al-Jazeerah

Yes, appeasement of evil, is always a good policy.

And of course, we all know that surrendering your principles, to soothe bullies, always works.
/sarc off

Dictionary,
appease = = placate (someone) by acceding to their demands.


Dictionary,
placate = = calm, pacify, or appease.




Lets not kid ourselves, the aggression of evil men, is not overcome by surrender to their aggression and demands.

Surrendering again, and again, to such aggression, will ultimately result in your enslavement to those evil men.

If you give a thug, what he wants, he will come back to intimidate you again, and again, and eventually he will take from you, everything that you own.

And the last thing the bully / the thug, will take from you, is your life.






http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/chamberlain-hitler2.jpg
See! - Appeasement works, We can all be good friends.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fq-guE2EUAg/SOlZik3TfyI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/x9a8BZla58A/s320/Neville_Chamberlain.JPG
The fruits of appeasement, "Peace in our time".






NOT A PLEASANT IMAGE - DO NOT CLICK ON THIS NEXT IMAGE LINK,
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/belson_3.jpg
The fate of many of those, whom the Nazis hated - European Jews







http://www.jihadwatch.org/PATV300307.jpg
Moslems are NOT our enemies!!
/sarc off

"Hamas Spokesman: Genocide of Jews remains Hamas goal"
"As Hamas seeks international recognition by softening its tone in English, in Arabic it continues the calls for genocide of Jews."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016038.php






http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-05/12/xin_06050112085844514911.jpg
Nick Berg, moments before his beheading.......
........BY MOSLEM 'IMPERSONATORS'

The Koran.....
"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/001.qmt.html#001.001

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.123

The past 25 years of Hamas' existence have seen the Zionists and their Western benefactors hitting their heads against a brickwall. They are not succeeding in wiping out the Palestinians and taking the rest of their land and homes, and they are not getting the "peace" they thought they'd eventually get back when they first began dispossessing the Palestinians of their homes in 1948...

Some people like to keep banging their heads against brickwalls, others realise that it's gotta be done another way.

You seem like a bit of a headbanger to me Yadda.

The Muslims will _NEVER_ relinquish al-Quds nor one single dunum of the surrounding land...

You can either spend 100 years finding this out again (as your ancestors the Crusaders found out), or you can realise you made a mistake, and return the Zionists back to their homes in USA, UK, Lithuania, Russia etc. There are _NO_ other outcomes possible. 1.6 billion Muslims will make sure of it. Israel will _NEVER_ exist in Palestine in a normal state of affairs... it will always exist as a foreign cancer-like entity that will constantly be fought against. The pipe dream of the early 20th. century that they can establish themselves there and then "ride it out" until they get accepted ain't gonna happen, not now not ever.

Be a realist..

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 27^th, 2009 at 5:50pm:

.....The Muslims will _NEVER_ relinquish al-Quds nor one single dunum of the surrounding land... You can either spend 100 years finding this out again (as your ancestors the Crusaders found out), or you can realise you made a mistake, and return the Zionists back to their homes in USA, UK, Lithuania, Russia etc. There are _NO_ other outcomes possible. 1.6 billion Muslims will make sure of it. Israel will _NEVER_ exist in Palestine in a normal state of affairs... it will always exist as a foreign cancer-like entity that will constantly be fought against. The pipe dream of the early 20th. century that they can establish themselves there and then "ride it out" until they get accepted ain't gonna happen, not now not ever. Be a realist..

'......The Muslims will _NEVER_ relinquish al-Quds [Jerusalem] '


I know abu, i know!!!         ;)


Interesting, that you used the word 'Muslims' above, and not the word 'Palestinians'.

You are slipping abu.           ;D





All Moslems claim that Jewish people have no connection to the land of Israel, and that ancient Israel was a moslem land.

And you have heard of all of those ancient moslems, haven't you [those biblical personalities which ISLAM cliamsn for itself]?
/sarc off
.....Abraham, Ishmael, Hagar, King David, Jesus, ......all good moslems, according to ISLAM.




More moslem 'proof', that Jewish people have no connection to the land of Israel.....

".....JERUSALEM – The Jewish Temples never existed, the Western Wall really was a tying post for Muhammad's horse.........The Palestinian cleric denied the validity of dozens of digs verified by experts worldwide revealing Jewish artifacts from the First and Second Temples throughout Jerusalem, including on the Temple Mount itself; excavations revealing Jewish homes and a synagogue in a site in Jerusalem called the City of David; or even the recent discovery of a Second Temple Jewish city in the vicinity of Jerusalem."

"23 proofs of Israel's defeat in the 23-day war"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1234280536/9#9

"Exploring ISLAMIC 'mindsnap'"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1227051349/0#0

"WOULD YOU DEFY A BAN ON CRITICISING ISLAM?"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1227427198/35#35





Exploring further the PRINCIPAL characteristic of ISLAM,
.....a culture in complete denial of all observable truths, if they contradict ISLAMIC 'truth',

Part 067 - Dilemma of Muhammadan Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dd7adRI5q4


Part 068 - Hagar and Ishmael
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb1NZBsZyxg


Part 048 - Male Muhammadan Characteristics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6YOzjx5ZzM

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 27^th, 2009 at 5:50pm:

You seem like a bit of a headbanger to me Yadda. ......The Muslims will _NEVER_ relinquish al-Quds nor one single dunum of the surrounding land... .....Be a realist.

CANDID MOSLEMS......HERE, EXPOSING THE MOSLEM CULTURE OF LYING, AND DECEPTION, WHEN 'ENGAGING' WITH THE NON-MOSLEM WORLD....

YOUTUBE....
Palestinian MP Dahlan: Arafat deceived the world when condemning terror
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr3-Vileiew


Palestinian Authority official crows that Arafat deceived the world when he condemned terror
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027035.php





AND, I JUST REMEMBERED THIS FURTHER YOUTUBE PRESENTATION,

Fatah official - Our goal has never been peace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc-7GK6F4RI





Yadda,   ......the 'head banger',    ....but grounded in reality.







+++++++++++iPsalms 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
2  God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3  Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4  Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.
5  There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.
6  Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.

Quote:

Interesting, that you used the word 'Muslims' above, and not the word 'Palestinians'.

The land is a Muslim land. There's no concept of Palestine, or Lebanon or Iraq or Saudi Arabia in Islam. I've made this absolutely clear many times before. Under Islam, the region of Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan was always known as Bilad ash-Shaam, for the 1200 years it was ruled by Islam.

If I believed it was supposed to be a Palestinian nation, seperate from the Islamic nation, then I wouldn't care less about their plight would I? That's why I can't understand your passion for the Zionist cause. They are not of you, and you are not of them. They'll bomb you tomorrow if they think it'll get them more weapons and support, and they've done so before.... You're a bit of a sucker, if you ask me.


Quote:

All Moslems claim that Jewish people have no connection to the land of Israel, and that ancient Israel was a moslem land

Not true at all. Again a false claim by you about the beliefs of Muslims (you've made quite a few of these lately). Our books clearly attest to their history in the region. But the key word here is "ancient". It was ancient history, and has nothing to do with today. They have no more right to the land than I do to Germany, because a coupla thousand of years ago my ancestors lived there...


Quote:

The Jewish Temples never existed

Again, there's no denying they existed, they are also mentioned in the Islamic texts. Interesting fact though, Masjid al-Aqsa has stood in al-Quds for longer than both Jewish temples combined...

And you think the Muslims are just going to walk away and leave it? You are a dreamer, and one who is just prolonging peoples suffering, on your side and the other.


Quote:

Yadda,   ......the 'head banger',    ....but grounded in reality.

The reality is Muslims will not leave or surrender it, so this conflict will just continue as long as the West stubbornly continues to prop them up... when the West becomes unable, or disinterested in doing so... they will be washed away with the waves...

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 2:47pm:

The land [Israel, 'Judea', Samaria] is a Muslim land. There's no concept of Palestine, or Lebanon or Iraq or Saudi Arabia in Islam. I've made this absolutely clear many times before. Under Islam, the region of Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan was always known as Bilad ash-Shaam, for the 1200 years it was ruled by Islam. If I believed it was supposed to be a Palestinian nation, seperate from the Islamic nation, then I wouldn't care less about their plight would I? That's why I can't understand your passion for the Zionist cause. They are not of you, and you are not of them.

abu,

You can't see it, can you?

There are lessons to be learnt, by us, here [in the physical].

God has set these things [spiritual TRUTHS] before us, but for most of us, the world [the physical] beguiles us.

We are 'lost', in the world.


Dictionary,
beguile = = charm or enchant. Ø trick into doing something.

You'll see.

We all will.





abu,

ISLAM, has beguiled you.

Q.
Why is that?
Do you have a gaining in mind, in expectation?
Or are you truly sincere, devout?

A.
Only you yourself, know that answer.







Quote:

They'll bomb you tomorrow if they think it'll get them more weapons and support, and they've done so before.... You're a bit of a sucker, if you ask me.

Right back at ya, abu!!!

hehe





Quote:

[quote]The Jewish Temples never existed

Again, there's no denying they existed, they are also mentioned in the Islamic texts.

[/quote]

abu,

You must take this, your assertion, up with your 'brothers', who disagree with your position on this reality.

It is they, the ISLAMIC scholars, it is they who insist, that the Jewish Temples never existed.







Quote:

And you think the Muslims are just going to walk away and leave it? You are a dreamer, and one who is just prolonging peoples suffering, on your side and the other. [quote]Yadda,   ......the 'head banger',    ....but grounded in reality.

The reality is Muslims will not leave or surrender it, so this conflict will just continue as long as the West stubbornly continues to prop them up... when the West becomes unable, or disinterested in doing so... they will be washed away with the waves...

[/quote]


The 'West', the world, will abandon the state of Israel to its 'fate'.
....in fact this scenario is has been unfolding for several years.

Israel will smash a future [combined] moslem assault [i believe].

And then, the 'West', the world community [sponsored by the UN?], will decide to fight Israel [i believe], to relieve the enormity of moslem defeat [i believe].

We'll see.

Quote:

ISLAM, has beguiled you.

You're the one suporting people mass immigrating from all around the world into someone elses land, kicking them out of their homes, razing them and building settlements on top, in the process killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Yes we know the Palestinians _dare_ to fight back... how evil of them....

If anyone has been enchanted or duped by something here, it's you, by the apocalyptic fantasies of putting the Jews back into the holy land....


Quote:

It is they, the ISLAMIC scholars, it is they who insist, that the Jewish Temples never existed.

This just highlights how truly gullible you are. What they are disputing is that the Western wall (the one where Jews go and rock themselves into a frenzy) is part of the original temple. Many archaeologists have also disputed this, non-Muslims as well. They do not doubt such a temple existed.


Quote:

Israel will smash a future [combined] moslem assault [i believe]. And then, the 'West', the world community [sponsored by the UN?], will decide to fight Israel [i believe], to relieve the enormity of moslem defeat [i believe].

This is all just vague and obscure interpretations of your corrupted books. The West will not turn against  Israel, they support her unconditionally, but they may lose the ability to support her eventually, or they may realise that maintaining her is too costly in other ways.. But they've already armed her with the deadliest weapons known to man... just to ensure that armageddon does actually happen I guess...

Someone sure wants the end of the world, but it ain't the Muslims.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 2:47pm:

....I can't understand your passion for the Zionist cause. They are not of you, and you are not of them. They'll bomb you tomorrow if they think it'll get them more weapons and support, and they've done so before.... You're a bit of a sucker, if you ask me.

abu,

I know that you do not see.



But i will explain.....

The Jews, the 'Zionists', are not special, the Jewish people are not especially spiritual, or faultless.

They are men and women, like us.

Exactly, like us.

The Jews were not chosen by God, because they were, or are, a special people, or because they have/had any special worthy characteristic.

But, the Jews [and the whole house of Israel] are special, because they were chosen, by God, to be an example to man.

That is/was their 'work'.

And willingly, or unwillingly, the Jewish people were selected, by God, to suffer, and to be blamed.

The Jewish people, were selected, by God, to be a group of 'scapegoats', among men.






Deuteronomy 4:27
And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.


Deuteronomy 28:37
And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.


Deuteronomy 28:65
And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:


Why?

Because, God has his purpose, for all mankind.

And we, including the Jewish people, are but his 'clay', to form us, and use us as he will.

If you think that is unjust, read the Bible, these things are explained.






But, the Jewish people are a blessed people, BECAUSE THEY BEAR THE BURDEN OF BEING GOD'S WORKMEN AMONG MANKIND.


Deuteronomy 30:1
And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2  And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3  That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4  If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5  And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.




Men are dumb,
.....but our God is wise, and just, and righteous!!



Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
......
8  And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9  And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10  Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Quote:

But, the Jews [and the whole house of Israel] are special, because they were chosen, by God

_were_ being the keyword here.

They were chosen, I agree, but they broke the covenant too many times, slayed too many prophets (pbut), and then attempted to slay the Messiah (pbuh) and so they were stripped of their chosen status.

Today they are just a misguided and misguiding people. They don't even follow their original religion anymore, most of what they follow was invented no more than about 300 years ago. Their 'religious garb' is in imitation of a Polish aristocrat, their practises and beliefs are mostly invented and innovated, and have little to do with the religion of Moses (pbuh). About the only thing they have in common with the ancient Children of Israel is their genes, and even that is debateable in a large % of them, since most of them (the Ashkenazim especially) are clearly not genetically Middle Eastern. Even their language was lost, the modern 're-invention' is a poor imitation. Most "Jews" can't even pronounce the Semitic letters anymore, since their tongues are completely germanicised. Arab-Israelis speak Hebrew much better than them, and laugh at their inability to even produce half the sounds.

But since your religion is based around their race, you can't give up on them. They are your salvation, not the Messiah (pbuh). Everything you believe hinges upon them, and that's why you are so staunchly behind them. You glorify and almost worship them, because you think they are some kind of representatives of God on earth. So you're in a fix aren't you? Rejecting them would mean rejecting your beliefs... because they are so intertwined into your beliefs....

Your religion is a religion that's centred around a certain race. Mine is centred around worship of God... When that race falls, so will your icon of God... You've built your house on uneven soil my friend, and it's going to topple.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 5:29pm:

Quote: But, the Jews [and the whole house of Israel] are special, because they were chosen, by God _were_ being the keyword here. They were chosen, I agree, but they broke the covenant too many times, slayed too many prophets (pbut), and then attempted to slay the Messiah (pbuh) and so they were stripped of their chosen status.

Believe that if you must.

And i know that you must.







Quote:

Today they are just a misguided and misguiding people. They don't even follow their original religion anymore, most of what they follow was invented no more than about 300 years ago. Their 'religious garb' is in imitation of a Polish aristocrat, their practises and beliefs are mostly invented and innovated, and have little to do with the religion of Moses (pbuh). About the only thing they have in common with the ancient Children of Israel is their genes, and even that is debateable in a large % of them, since most of them (the Ashkenazim especially) are clearly not genetically Middle Eastern. Even their language was lost, the modern 're-invention' is a poor imitation. Most "Jews" can't even pronounce the Semitic letters anymore, since their tongues are completely germanicised. Arab-Israelis speak Hebrew much better than them, and laugh at their inability to even produce half the sounds.

Well, i'm glad that your 'brothers' can find joy, in that, at least.        :)







Quote:

But since your religion is based around their race, you can't give up on them. They are your salvation, not the Messiah (pbuh). Everything you believe hinges upon them, and that's why you are so staunchly behind them. You glorify and almost worship them, because you think they are some kind of representatives of God on earth. So you're in a fix aren't you? Rejecting them would mean rejecting your beliefs... because they are so intertwined into your beliefs....

abu,

I have explained my position, on my belief in God.

But believe that [above], if you must.

And i know that you must.







Quote:

Your religion is a religion that's centred around a certain race. Mine is centred around worship of God... When that race falls, so will your icon of God... You've built your house on uneven soil my friend, and it's going to topple.

abu,

Believe that if you must.

And i know that you must.




"Islam - a religion of War"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1247682446/4#4







+++++++








Proverbs 1:22
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23  Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24  Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25  But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26  I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27  When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28  Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29  For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30  They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31  Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32  For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.


Proverbs 8:32
Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33  Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34  Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35  For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36  But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


John 3:4
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?