ISLAM should be above criticism?

Please explain your position skip.



In a statement, a post, addressed to myself, skip said,


wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 9:13am:

People  who advocate terrorism and hate of others just because of their religion, is as disrespectful as it gets. If they don't want people to diss them,they should stop being so extreme.

skip,

Please explain your position.

Are you suggesting that ISLAM, because it claims to be a peaceful and tolerant religion, that ISLAM should not be criticised [when it is clear that the reality seems different, to the claims made by ISLAM's adherents]?

Perhaps you are saying that ISLAM isn't doing anything wrong?

Are you saying that some adherents of ISLAM are doing something wrong, but people shouldn't criticise ISLAM for their actions?

Under what circumstances, would criticism of ISLAM be justified, in your eyes skip?







Myself, i perceive an evil in ISLAM, and perceive an evil in the principles revealed within ISLAM's foundational documents [its 'scriptures', the Koran and Hadith].

And i see all of the lies, deception, vile, and violent actions, being perpetrated by people today, people claiming to be devout moslems, as being inspired by ISLAM, its doctrines, and its 'scriptures'.

And i am not saying this, in an uninformed, in a prejudiced way.

I am saying this, after informing myself, about what ISLAM promotes and condones.

But you are suggesting, still, that ISLAM and its adherents should not be criticised?

And you are saying, that my criticism of ISLAM makes me an 'advocate of terrorism' [my interpretation of your quote above]?

Why?

Why does being critical of ISLAM, make me an 'advocate of terrorism'???

Please explain.








http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-05/12/xin_06050112085844514911.jpg
American Nick Berg, with his arms bound, moments before his beheading by Allah's 'finest'.




http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44326000/jpg/_44326171_afp203indexfire.jpg
Pakistan Benazir Bhutto assassinated in bomb attack.



In my opinion,
ISLAM - IS A DEATH CULT.

Read, and re-read, these earnest words of admonition, from a respected ISLAMIC scholar, to all the 'brothers' of ISLAM,

"......in the words of Islamism's most influential thinker, Sayyid Qutb,
....."the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood." "
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8802-2243871,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb



Why should ISLAM should be above criticism?

Please explain your position skip.

Yadda wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 11:31am:

And i am not saying this, in an uninformed, in a prejudiced way. I am saying this, after informing myself, about what ISLAM promotes and condones.

Dictionary,
prejudice = = preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. Ø unjust behaviour formed on such a basis.

In other words,   .....prejudice can mean, to pre-judge, a judgement made while being un-informed.

The point is that Islam is free to criticise and invent things to criticise about our society, but any criticism of the Islamic world is evil, hateful, intolerant and not permitted.

Free speech only goes one way, its free speech provided that muslims like the speech that is freely spoken. If not, then its hate speech and you cant speak it. Of course, muslims can be as hateful as they want in anything they say, about Jews or anyone else.

I have a reason !!!!!!!!!!!
the religion of peace should be above criticism because they will riot and murder otherwise.

So it's all our fault.'if we just completely accepted their entire ideology and submitted to islam, they would not harass, terrorise and murder us.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 1:24pm:

I have a reason !!!!!!!!!!! the religion of peace should be above criticism because they will riot and murder otherwise. So it's all our fault.'if we just completely accepted their entire ideology and submitted to islam, they would not harass, terrorise and murder us.

Sprint, history shows that when they ran out of infidels they do it to each other like sunnis vs shia etc.. So if you join them you going to cope it anyway.

Sorry to disappoint you :(

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 1:24pm:

I have a reason !!!!!!!!!!! the religion of peace should be above criticism because they will riot and murder otherwise. So it's all our fault.'if we just completely accepted their entire ideology and submitted to islam, they would not harass, terrorise and murder us.

If that is a promise, it would be moslem promise.
.....worthless.

Moslems, have a history as covenant breakers.

If fact, i can't recall a covenant, that they didn't break.

Perhaps abu call assist us?

Yadda wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 11:31am:

ISLAM should be above criticism? I am saying this, after informing myself, about what ISLAM promotes and condones.

You haven't said which bits Islam promotes and condones, Yadda.

I don't think Islam is inherently bad or evil. Islam is about changing who you are from the inside out. Spiritual and internal concepts like Jihad have been interpreted in a political context, and this is a very recent invention - it's also a fundamentalist corruption of what the Koran explicity states.

I'm not a Muslim. I can't understand why well-bred, healthy teenagers would want to go out and kill people they don't know - and then blow themselves up in the process.

I believe that, like most holy books, the whole virgins in paradise myth is meant metaphorically, but read by ignorant and ill-educated people as the literal truth.

I see this as a problem with the global nature of fundamentalism - not Islam itself. Fundamentalism is not only embraced by poor, backward people in developing nations. Most of the September 11 hijackers were university educated in the west.

George Bush also went to university for all the good it did him.

Fundamentalism is a largely modern phenomenon, brought about by a rise in communications technology and a growing alientation from social and political decision-making. It values hightened emotional states as opposed to rational thought. Fundamentalism, I think, rises from a sense of isolation.

Tribal loyalty is not fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is a new political discourse that moves beyond religion. Islam itself is not the problem.

I'm not saying that there aren't many pissed-off Muslims who are so angry at the west that they are prepared to kill anyone - Muslims included. I am saying that this anger has been kindled and propagated by interest groups.

It is a question of power, alientation and social control.

No one looks at the Old Testament and says that the Jews are intrinsically violent. Why do this with Islam?

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 2:17pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 24th, 2009 at 11:31am: ISLAM should be above criticism? I am saying this, after informing myself, about what ISLAM promotes and condones. You haven't said which bits Islam promotes and condones, Yadda. I don't think Islam is inherently bad or evil. Islam is about changing who you are from the inside out. Spiritual and internal concepts like Jihad have been interpreted in a political context, and this is a very recent invention - it's also a fundamentalist corruption of what the Koran explicity states. I'm not a Muslim. I can't understand why well-bred, healthy teenagers would want to go out and kill people they don't know - and then blow themselves up in the process. I believe that, like most holy books, the whole virgins in paradise myth is meant metaphorically, but read by ignorant and ill-educated people as the literal truth. I see this as a problem with the global nature of fundamentalism - not Islam itself. Fundamentalism is not only embraced by poor, backward people in developing nations. Most of the September 11 hijackers were university educated in the west. George Bush also went to university for all the good it did him. Fundamentalism is a largely modern phenomenon, brought about by a rise in communications technology and a growing alientation from social and political decision-making. It values hightened emotional states as opposed to rational thought. Fundamentalism, I think, rises from a sense of isolation. Tribal loyalty is not fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is a new political discourse that moves beyond religion. Islam itself is not the problem. I'm not saying that there aren't many pissed-off Muslims who are so angry at the west that they are prepared to kill anyone - Muslims included. I am saying that this anger has been kindled and propagated by interest groups. It is a question of power, alientation and social control. No one looks at the Old Testament and says that the Jews are intrinsically violent. Why do this with Islam

Hi Karnal,

Welcome to OzPol.

In answer to your question above,

For many, many, daily examples of ISLAMIC inspired violence, i suggest your peruse this site....

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/



For some very clear elucidation of WHY moslems are violent [towards those who do not believe as they do], i suggest your peruse this site....

Jihad Watch
http://www.jihadwatch.org/

and,
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam101/

Thank you, Yadda.

Looking at the links you've posted, it seems that you have informed yourself about Islam by reading anti-Islam sites. What do you expect?

A few years ago the IRA were commiting regular acts of terrorism. But no one blamed Christianity. They were called "politicals."

In the Cold War, groups like Bader Meinhoff commited regular acts of terror. Back then, everyone blamed communism - this used to be the global evil we had to defeat.

Now it's the Muslims.

Still, I aknowledge that Islamic militant groups have become increasingly organised over the last 30 years. The scope of certain Islamic factions has increased, and the idea of Islamic states throughout Asia has become popular. Now, people are increasingly prepared to die for these states as martyrdom has become a political tool.

This, however, is very different to saying that Islam itself is rotten to its core. To make that claim, I think you need to rely on theological sources - not political ones.

Karnal wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 2:08pm:

Thank you, Yadda. Looking at the links you've posted, it seems that you have informed yourself about Islam by reading anti-Islam sites. What do you expect?

Karnal,

I hear what you are saying....

i.e. "Anti-Islam sites, are anti-Islam, therefore what they say, cannot be, or is unlikely to be, true / valid."

That is a fallacious argument.

Your argument, is illogical.

Your not a moslem are you?

Dictionary,
fallacy = =
1 a mistaken belief.
2 Logic a failure in reasoning which renders an argument invalid.



Karnal,

As an alternative, you may wish to consider this logic.....

".....the truth of an assertion doesn't depend on the virtues of the person asserting it."


Think about it.

from,
Imperfect koran and why its not the word of 'god'
http://www2b.abc.net.au/tmb/Client/Message.aspx?b=87&m=7894&ps=20&dm=1&pd=3








Quote:

A few years ago the IRA were commiting regular acts of terrorism. But no one blamed Christianity. They were called "politicals." In the Cold War, groups like Bader Meinhoff commited regular acts of terror. Back then, everyone blamed communism - this used to be the global evil we had to defeat. Now it's the Muslims.

Personally, i would rather equate moslems to Nazis,  ....in their aspirations.

i.e. World conquest.


http://www.zionism-israel.com/ezine/Isllam1.jpg



http://www.zionism-israel.com/ezine/Isllam2.jpg
"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"


I don't think the IRA, would have got away with something like this.

Prolly coz the IRA is not a peaceful, tolerant, religion eh?
/sarc off








Quote:

Still, I aknowledge that Islamic militant groups have become increasingly organised over the last 30 years. The scope of certain Islamic factions has increased, and the idea of Islamic states throughout Asia has become popular. Now, people are increasingly prepared to die for these states as martyrdom has become a political tool. This, however, is very different to saying that Islam itself is rotten to its core. To make that claim, I think you need to rely on theological sources - not political ones.

I think i agree.






These are just a few examples in ISLAM's own 'scriptures', justifying the violence of the Jihad, against non-moslems,

The Hadith...

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.196


"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.065


"Allah's Apostle said, "Allah welcomes two men with a smile; one of whom kills the other and both of them enter Paradise. One fights in Allah's Cause and gets killed. Later on Allah forgives the 'killer who also get martyred (In Allah's Cause)." "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.080i


"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.025



The Koran...

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.123



Karnal,

Are those sources theological enough for you?

Those quotes come from ISLAM's own, foundational documents [i.e. .....ISLAM's 'scriptures', the Koran and Hadith].

Yadda, the Old Testament has stuff just as bad as the above. I don't know if you have the same issue with Jews. Not many Jewish suicide bombers out there, I know.

No, I'm not a Muslim, but I do believe that Islam is about peace and tolerance. Islam united warring desert tribes by bringing them together under one god. The majority of intelligent, practicing Muslims are peaceful people - visit most Muslim households and you'll be treated with generousity and humility.

Once again, you are taking quotes completely out of context. This is what many Jihadists do. Wars are not faught by scholars, but by teenage boys. Many kids fighting in the Taliban, for example, have never been taught to read or write.

Do we say the Cambodians are inherently evil because of the Khmer Rouge?

The problem with things today is that we learn reality from TV and the internet. We don't rely on our own experiences as much. There are many kind, loving Muslim people and communities. When you've met or lived in Muslim communities, I'll believe.

The breadth and scope of Islamic culture is big. Indonesians are not the same as Chechneyans. There are a range of different Muslim cultures and people.

To say that they're all evil is to recreate the same problem as Muslim fundamentalists. They think we're evil, we think they're evil - it never ends.

Obama has the right idea. Change has to occur through mutual dialogue and understanding.

Karnal wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 4:12pm:

Yadda, the Old Testament has stuff just as bad as the above. I don't know if you have the same issue with Jews. Not many Jewish suicide bombers out there, I know.

Jewish [the Jews were 1 of 12 tribes of Israel] supremacism stopped at the borders of their promised land', 3,400 years ago.

ISLAM's task from Allah, is to fight non-moslems, until the whole world submits to ISLAMIC law, and authority.

Non-moslems are given 3 options by conquering moslems/ISLAM,

• convert to ISLAM,
  
• live in a subjugated status [moslems themselves, refers to the status of non-moslems within a Sharia jurisdiction as 'protected people', but they are virtually slaves to moslems],
  
• be killed, ....for resisting either of the two previous options.
  

TRUTH








Quote:

No, I'm not a Muslim, but I do believe that Islam is about peace and tolerance. Islam united warring desert tribes by bringing them together under one god. The majority of intelligent, practicing Muslims are peaceful people - visit most Muslim households and you'll be treated with generousity and humility. Once again, you are taking quotes completely out of context. This is what many Jihadists do. Wars are not faught by scholars, but by teenage boys. Many kids fighting in the Taliban, for example, have never been taught to read or write.

True, to a point.

But it is the moslem scholars, which guide these 'children' who fight.



EXAMPLE....

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should **preach** peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, **only until** they gain enough power to engage in battle.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

AND,

An Oz moslem cleric, explains ISLAM's reason for being....

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200508/r54561_147958.jpg
Australian Islamic leader defends jihad
".....Abu Bakr says he does not accept other religions.
"I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate," he said.
"The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, is Islam." "
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1430551.htmiQuote:

Do we say the Cambodians are inherently evil because of the Khmer Rouge? The problem with things today is that we learn reality from TV and the internet. We don't rely on our own experiences as much. There are many kind, loving Muslim people and communities. Why not meet them and see? To say that they're all evil is to recreate the same problem as Muslim fundamentalists. They think we're evil, we think they're evil - it never ends. Obama has the right idea. Change has to occur through mutual dialogue and understanding.

Karnal,

Please research this [ISLAM].

Because, you are mistaken about ISLAM.



My position on these issues is....

Moslems are people like you and me.

Some are good and some are bad.

But, moslems are deceived by ISLAM.

ISLAM is part religion [ISLAM's 'veil'], but most of ISLAM, is a vicious, fascist, political philosophy.

Research how non-moslems are treated, in moslem majority countries...

Google,
christians muslim persecution
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=christians+muslim+persecution&btnG=Search&meta=



Pure, true, devout ISLAM, divides the world into two parts, moslems, and non-moslems.

And pure, true, devout ISLAM, considers non-moslems to be sub-humans.

Anjem Choudary - a UK moslem community leader says...

"...when we say innocent people, we mean muslims."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a muslim....i must have *hatred* towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[muslims] allegence is always with the muslims, so i will never condemn a muslim for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4


And moslems are given sanction to struggle, to lie, to deceive, and to fight, all unbelievers, to bring about Sharia law, in the places where they live.

ISLAM is a corrosive, vicious, political philosophy.

ISLAM, in its purest 'form', is a death cult.


....."the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
ISLAMIC 'scholar', Sayyid Qutb
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8802-2243871,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

Karnal wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 4:12pm:

Yadda, the Old Testament has stuff just as bad as the above. I don't know if you have the same issue with Jews. Not many Jewish suicide bombers out there, I know. No, I'm not a Muslim, but I do believe that Islam is about peace and tolerance. Islam united warring desert tribes by bringing them together under one god. The majority of intelligent, practicing Muslims are peaceful people - visit most Muslim households and you'll be treated with generousity and humility. Once again, you are taking quotes completely out of context. This is what many Jihadists do. Wars are not faught by scholars, but by teenage boys. Many kids fighting in the Taliban, for example, have never been taught to read or write. Do we say the Cambodians are inherently evil because of the Khmer Rouge? The problem with things today is that we learn reality from TV and the internet. We don't rely on our own experiences as much. There are many kind, loving Muslim people and communities. When you've met or lived in Muslim communities, I'll believe. The breadth and scope of Islamic culture is big. Indonesians are not the same as Chechneyans. There are a range of different Muslim cultures and people. To say that they're all evil is to recreate the same problem as Muslim fundamentalists. They think we're evil, we think they're evil - it never ends. Obama has the right idea. Change has to occur through mutual dialogue and understanding.

You are not wrong but you are wilfully or otherwise lopsided.Islam is a political ideology and you have to face it on those terms.

The Arab tribes were united and their internal wars were halted - only to direct their energies outward.

Indonesia is not the same a Chechenya in so far as Islam is interpereted. But the whole idea of having differently interpreted versions of Islam is anathema to - Islam.

Mutual dialogue - I don't see the Muslim outreach, the Muslim 'let's focus on what's good in Judaism, Christianity, western secularism'. Why is that? And in its absence, what do you mean by mutual?

To quote the poet, "what have the Muslims ever done for us?" (Apart from  enslaving Greek and Latin speaking Christians and getting them to translate ancient books into Arabic for them, invading and subjugating Christian lands for hundreds of years, waging incessant war against the west, maintaining and expanding the slave trade, in africans as well as europeans, and all the other nasty stuff?)

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 2:17pm:

I believe that, like most holy books, the whole virgins in paradise myth is meant metaphorically, but read by ignorant and ill-educated people as the literal truth.

Amen, I think ALL religions are literal manfetstiobof metaphorical explanations. They all essentiely say the same thing.

merou wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 11:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5th, 2009 at 2:17pm: I believe that, like most holy books, the whole virgins in paradise myth is meant metaphorically, but read by ignorant and ill-educated people as the literal truth. Amen, I think ALL religions are literal manfetstiobof metaphorical explanations. They all essentiely say the same thing.

You guys have to move on from this reflexive 'it's all the same' mantra. It is lazy, it is untrue, it is corrosive. And of course it is stupid.

If you can't distinguish between ideas that so obviously, manifestly result in different modes of live then what is your claim to intelligence - the ability to discern difference? Being able to move your lips is not enough.


To say to everything that it is like 'anything else' is a great title for a great Woody Allen movie but to live all your lives according to this principles is taking praise way, way too far.

merou wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 11:13pm:

Amen, I think ALL religions are literal manfetstiobof metaphorical explanations. They all essentiely say the same thing.

merou,

You share that perception with, clearly, many people alive today.

My perception is,
....that we are a generation with no discernment between right or wrong, between good or evil.

And that is the main reason [IMO] why the world [of mankind] is in such a mess atm.
.....and our circumstances, will only get worse.



further comment....

Australia Day Disgrace
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1233023722/36#36

Jihad for Kids, Birds of Paradise
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1246764874/2#2

What is sanity? Who, is sane [or insane!!]?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1238457581/0#0

"....all religion should be - the practise of compassion."
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229992370/0#0
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229992370/4#4

Go Pirate Hunting with the Russians
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1246059018/4#4


AND,

Do you believe Allah, Yahweh, are the same God??
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1230510088/0#0


Part 095 - Muhammad and Deception
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFc7oV7E6jE

Part 096 - Let There be Light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vsr-mlQPkI




"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
Thomas Mann
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Mann





++++++++





Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6  Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.


Isaiah 28:18
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.


Isaiah 25:7
And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8  He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9  And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


Isaiah 26:21
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Thanks for quoting a bit of the Old Jewish blood, Yadda, and putting this into some perspective. As we know, Islam sees itself as directly descending from the Old Testament and stemming from that tradition.


Yadda wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 4:55pm:

Jewish [the Jews were 1 of 12 tribes of Israel] supremacism stopped at the borders of their promised land', 3,400 years ago.

But I doubt this. I don't know about "supremacism" but the 6 Day War was only in 1967, not 3400 years ago. The United Nations still has resolutions in place demanding that Israel return the land. And does it? Not with the US on the Security Council.

For different political reasons, the US will never cast Israel adrift. Through the Reagan and Bush Junior years, one reason is the part Israel plays in the Bible Belt's Christian mythology. The political Christians have their own supremacy kick, and this involves spreading the Word so that Jesus can return to earth.

It would be interesting to see the militant Imans' words posted next to fundamentalist Christian cases like, for example, Kenneth Copeland. These vocal evangelicals see a very polarised world - good and evil, Christian versus Islam, etc, and they're quite prepared to fight for it. They say they're prepared to die for it.

Stupid as many of them are, many saw the invasion of Iraq as a crusade against Islam despite the fact that Iraq was a secular state. Us against them.

If it was really us against them we would have invaded Saudi Arabia, but that didn't matter at the time.

Smug, self-indulgent and ultimately ignorant decisions like Iraq are the reason we get so much grief from the Islamic world.

The other reason, I think, is a response to post-colonialism. Topple nationalists (like Saddam) and Muslims will want self-government. The Western-educated leaders who arose in the developing world after WWII kept religious movements at bay. Throughout South East Asia, the Middle-East and ex-Soviet territories, the rapid growth of communications technology is now allowing them to organise.

This doesn't explain the phenomenon of suicide bombers, but it puts Islam's relationship with the west as central to the argument.

As to your argument that we are a generation without "right or wrong", how do you place the rise of religious movements, and in particular, religious movements such as fundamentalist Islam and Christianity with very clearly defined notions of right and wrong?

My argument is that the "right" and "wrong" are changing - as they always have. It's very relativist, I suppose. Revolutions in politics, technology and ethics have always occurred. We are by no means at some "end point" in history. If we were, your argument that a 1300 year old religion is to blame wouldn't make much sense.

But we are in a shift in the West between an industrial and information-based economy, and this brings with it a fundamental shift in power. As always, economic shifts influence political shifts (and vice-versa). We can trace the political and ideological money-trail back to the Western oil crisis of the 1970s and the Mujahadeen/Taliban struggle against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s (with US support).

The end of the Cold War saw a vacuum to be replaced - on the one hand - by Islamic militancy as the enemy of the West and - on the other - interventionalist and "corrupt" Western powers as the enemy of Islam. The problem here, however, is not so much the respective powers themselves but the knee-jerk reaction to identify a clearly defined enemy - the necessary understanding of "good" and "evil" you mention. Things are never this easy to identify. Speak to any CIA analyst. Things are complicated.

My defense of Islam is based on its identification of the enemy within as something that needs to be erradicated - its "jihad" as a daily spiritual struggle in your own mind and life. This, I think, puts the blame where it is needed, not on some constantly shifting enemy of the state.

We know things aren't all ginger beer and Jesus on this planet, but I believe that the only way you'll fix something - anything - is if you can stop the whole cycle of blame and look first at what contribution you make yourself. Anger and hatred will only ever get in the way of change - even in war. Call it the code of the Samurai, but I believe that this is also the core teaching of Islam - and Christianity too.

And before anyone can claim that this problem does not have an ethical or spiritual weight to it, look at what it must take to even think about strapping on an explosives belt and walking into a crowd.

Realistically, the war will never end. Only the alliances change. If you want a good enemy, look in the mirror. I swear I haven't found a better one yet.