I was listening to this while driving yesterday. It's mindblowing.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/stories/2009/2615119.htm

You might have to wait for a transcript if you're bandwidth challenged, but it seems that the Fundamentalist Christians have taken over, and those who are non religious are in danger of persecution or even losing their lives.

Some of the stories are incredible, and it seems like Obama is turning a blind eye.

Also see here:

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488

Probably not so much of a blind eye than a fearful one. These people consider themselves latter day crusaders.

It was inevitable, no doubt, that the monster of religious warrior zealotry that characterises Islamism would spawn a self-styled nemesis in the form of militant Christian Fundamentalism... Killers for Jesus.

Jesus Killed Mohammed: The crusade for a Christian military

Quote:

It was inevitable, no doubt, that the monster of religious warrior zealotry that characterises Islamism would spawn a self-styled nemesis in the form of militant Christian Fundamentalism

Actually if you look at it a little closer, you'll find it was the other way 'round.

The zealous Christians evoked an Islamic revival in the Muslims, and directly led to the creation of pretty much all modern day Islamic resistance movements. Go back to the 60's and 70's and pretty much no 'Islamist' movements existed in the Islamic world. Most of the Palestinian groups were either based on nationalism or Communism/Socialism and had very little, if any, link to Islam at all. Indeed, Abdullah Azzam, the famous Palestinian resistance fighter, who led the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the USSR, left Palestine for Afghanistan because of his dismay at the unIslamic beliefs and practises of the resistance movements there, and that was late 1970's or early 1980's. No al-Qaeda existed, no Hezbollah, no Hamas etc.

::) honestly

I had a listen to it.

really, pretty boring. So what, a christian stands up and says islam is shite.
So do I. So do many others here.
So what, a christian wants to push christianity.
get used to it islamics and apologetics, christians are not meant to be softcocked wimps.


it's a pity christians did not assassainate mohammad well before he stated to bugger minors and beheading people by the hundred.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 5:54pm:

I had a listen to it. really, pretty boring. So what, a christian stands up and says islam is shite. So do I. So do many others here. So what, a christian wants to push christianity. get used to it islamics and apologetics, christians are not meant to be softcocked wimps.

Might pay to listen to it again... Or read the article... Not quite as facile as you recall it.

There's that word again... No love your enemies for you then?

I had a listen, it was dull.

some weak attack on christians by some fop who objected to a cross being in the studio and it being blessed by a clergy.

Sure, theres love for individuals.
soldiers in an army are not chosen for their ethical standpoints on spiritual matters.

get some lead in your pencil.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 6:20pm:

I had a listen, it was dull. some weak attack on christians by some fop who objected to a cross being in the studio and it being blessed by a clergy. Sure, theres love for individuals. soldiers in an army are not chosen for their ethical standpoints on spiritual matters.

You didn't listen to it or read the article.


Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 6:20pm:

get some lead in your pencil.

An aspiration of yours, softy?

Quote:

No love your enemies for you then?

You should know by now helian that Christians only chant such mantras and golden rules when they're in a submissive position. When they're dominant, they say render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's... and in their estimation, it doesn't seem much belongs to God.

This is probably one of things about Christianity which drives so many away, it's inconsistencies. If someone slaps you, give him the other cheek... but it's only in theory, few Christians would ever practise it, and a Christian nation certainly never would. When it comes to the nation, they leave the mantras and golden rules behind, it's kill, murder, rape, pillage, dine on your enemies, rape them and burn them and their families alive to cover the evidence..

It was certainly always one of my obstacles to ever being a Christian. So hypocritical.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 8:37pm:

Quote: No love your enemies for you then? You should know by now helian that Christians only chant such mantras and golden rules when they're in a submissive position. When they're dominant, they say render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's... and in their estimation, it doesn't seem much belongs to God. This is probably one of things about Christianity which drives so many away, it's inconsistencies. If someone slaps you, give him the other cheek... but it's only in theory, few Christians would ever practise it, and a Christian nation certainly never would. When it comes to the nation, they leave the mantras and golden rules behind, it's kill, murder, rape, pillage, dine on your enemies, rape them and burn them and their families alive to cover the evidence.. It was certainly always one of my obstacles to ever being a Christian. So hypocritical.

All your muslim brothers and sisters are yearning for some proper Christian (western, liberal, democratic, secular) government. It is only your type, zealous converts and disaffected blow-ins, safe in western secular coutries, who agitate constantly for some corrupt, theocratic hell.


"kill, murder, rape, pillage, dine on your enemies, rape them and burn them and their families alive to cover the evidence" -  reads like jihad to me. Accusing the west of what your co-religionists do every day, as a matter of 'religous' jihad, may seem clever to you, sly propagandist, but after so many years of hearing about Muslim barbarity precisely along these lines, the ruse does not work any more. We know you are barbarians, we know your tactics, we know you are bullsh!tting.

Quote:

We know you are barbarians, we know your tactics, we know you are bullsh!tting

We both know that list is the actions of Christians at war, not Muslims. Maybe one day you'll be honest enough with yourself to openly admit it, and see the error of your ways... I'm not holding my breath though.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 9:55pm:

Quote: We know you are barbarians, we know your tactics, we know you are bullsh!tting We both know that list is the actions of Christians at war, not Muslims. Maybe one day you'll be honest enough with yourself to openly admit it, and see the error of your ways... I'm not holding my breath though.

We both know that there is nothing in Islam that promotes peace, freedom, felicity, civilisation, except after a submission.

And submission is the only point of Islam.

And we both know that Christianity is the only thing that allows you to mouth off.

Quote:

And we both know that Christianity is the only thing that allows you to mouth off.

Actually when Christianity ruled the Western countries, you couldn't speak anything not sanctioned by the Church, or you'd be burned for blasphemy. The freedom of speech in Western countries is a direct result of secularisation and the widespread adoption of atheism/agnosticism. If it were up to the Church, it would never have ended up like this, and again... you well know it.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 11:21pm:

Quote: And we both know that Christianity is the only thing that allows you to mouth off. Actually when Christianity ruled the Western countries, you couldn't speak anything not sanctioned by the Church, or you'd be burned for blasphemy. The freedom of speech in Western countries is a direct result of secularisation and the widespread adoption of atheism/agnosticism. If it were up to the Church, it would never have ended up like this, and again... you well know it.

There is no excuse for being a Muslim. None.

ROTFLMAO at Abooby..

Yet countries like the US where 75% profess to be Christian are bastians of secularism

BTW how many non-Moslems are there in the Iranian Army?
That many eh...  ;D ;D ;D

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 6:20pm:

some weak attack on christians by some fop who objected to a cross being in the studio and it being blessed by a clergy.

That bit was funny. Phillip Adams is probably the most high profile atheist in Australia, but he's also one of the most tolerant and compassionate.

Maybe I should keep out of this board. I did not intend this post to be another Muslim-Christian Christian-Muslim battleground.

Incidentally the guy who started all this was Jewish. Top bloke eh - Abu?   I was just appalled by the fact that people could get killed by the US army for not subscribing to Militant Christianity.

I'm not pushing any religio-poitical barrow here. I would think that anybody would be appalled by this report regardless of their own personal religion.

Adams tolerant... ;D ;D ;D
Only if you agree with him.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 9:46am:

The zealous Christians evoked an Islamic revival in the Muslims, and directly led to the creation of pretty much all modern day Islamic resistance movements.

Polish Engineer Refused Islam
Kidnapped Pole allegedly given choice between conversion and death

Piotr Stańczak, a Polish engineer working in Afghanistan for Geofizyka Krakow, was kidnapped by the Taliban in late 2008 and beheaded by his captors on the 7th of February. Now, a fellow hostage has revealed that Stańczak was given a chance to save his own life - and refused.

According to the German Press Agency (DPA), who interviewed Mohammad Amir (not his real name), a recently-released hostage of the Taliban, Stańczak had gained the respect of his captors. The Pole did not show fear and ate and slept well while in captivity. Amir was told about Stańczak by a Taliban guard, who stressed that it was difficult for his commander to order the engineer's execution. According to Amir, that was why the commander gave Stańczak a choice: convert to Islam or face death. With no hesitation, Stańczak chose the latter.

http://www.krakowpost.com/article/1399

muso wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 10:50am:

Maybe I should keep out of this board. I did not intend this post to be another Muslim-Christian Christian-Muslim battleground.

And yet that was the crux of your reference.

There was eventually always going to be a deeply religious element to this conflict if not for any other reason than that the most effective way to prevail over religious extremism is to send a zealot to kill a zealot. And if Islamists truly believe that Allah is the ultimate unquestionable arbiter of victory – his will be done - then they must accept that he may choose the side of their enemies… And therefore they must accept that their enemy may be sanctioned by god to kill more of them than they the enemy.

It was also inevitable that Obama would find himself locked in the arms of a great dilemma… How to uphold his oath of office – sworn to uphold the secularity of the state – and remain (or at least appear to be) a ‘committed man of faith’. In truth though, Obama is far closer to an atheist than a believer (if not frankly an atheist), as his first autobiography reveals. Christianity was the medium through which he first engaged his constituency and it likely means little more to him than that.

Admiral Yamamoto’s reputed response to the bombing of Pearl Harbour can be paraphrased in reference to American militant Christianity… ‘All Islamism has done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve’.

It is at least a conflict they would understand.

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 9:32pm:

"[Christians] kill, murder, rape, pillage, dine on your enemies, rape them and burn them and their families alive to cover the evidence" -  reads like jihad to me. Accusing the west of what your co-religionists do every day, as a matter of 'religous' jihad, may seem clever to you, sly propagandist, but after so many years of hearing about Muslim barbarity precisely along these lines, the rouse does not work any more. We know you are barbarians, we know your tactics, we know you are bullsh!tting.

Exactly so, soren.





Christian and Judaic doctrines, do not endorse or encourage the violence, seen so commonly in the world.

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.



O.T.,

Leviticus 19:11
Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
12  And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
13  Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14  Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15  Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16  Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17  Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18  Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.



Advice to God's people within the Old Testament scripture....

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.


Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18  He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
19  Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.






Whereas,

ISLAM does endorse the idea of ISLAMIC / moslem superiority, and violence against those who reject ISLAM.

ISLAM justifies the 'philosophy of the world' [i.e. justifying human violence to achieve 'aims'].

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."
Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian

This philosophy has an equivalency in ISLAM.

It is the philosophy, that says that, Allah favours the strong.

And that violence against the weak, is proof of Allah's condemnation of the weak.





The 'philosophy' of ISLAM [towards humankind],
love your fellow moslems, BUT,
ALL MOSLEMS HAVE AN OBLIGATION OF HATRED, TOWARDS 'UNBELIEVERS'.


"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."
quote, Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad


The Koran...

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/048.qmt.html#048.029

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 10:40pm:

We both know that there is nothing in Islam that promotes peace, freedom, felicity, civilisation, except after a submission. And submission is the only point of Islam. And we both know that Christianity is the only thing that allows you to mouth off.

Again soren, exactly so.





True Christianity encourages, openness, and TRUTH to be spoken.

1 Thessalonians 5:19
Quench not the Spirit.
20  Despise not prophesyings.
21  Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.





Whereas, ISLAM condemns any criticism of itself, its doctrines, as 'insulting' Allah, ISLAM.

And openly calls for the murder of its critics.

See the Koran. 33:60,61

"....whenever [TRUTH speakers, critics of ISLAM] are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."

Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 1:58pm:

Christian and Judaic doctrines, do not endorse or encourage the violence, seen so commonly in the world.

And yet...

'His blood be on us, and on our children.'

'in hoc signum vincit'

With Christianity, 'the Lord' has a bad habit of dropping in on psychopaths, ordering them into 'Holy War'.

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 11:07am:

Adams [is] tolerant... ;D ;D ;D Only if you agree with him.

Sounds to me like Phillip Adams, potentially, could be good mates with Hilali!    
/sarc off

;D     ;D     ;D

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 3:55pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 5th, 2009 at 1:58pm: Christian and Judaic doctrines, do not endorse or encourage the violence, seen so commonly in the world. And yet... 'His blood be on us, and on our children.'

Yes the blood of the Passover lamb [in Egypt], was the symbolic representation, of the blood of the Christ.
....the Redeemer of Israel.

And the words you quoted, merely acknowledge, IN THE WORD OF GOD, the redemption of the Jews, being those who spoke those same words to Pilate.





Quote:

'in hoc signum vincit'

I have no idea what those words signify.iQuote:

With Christianity, 'the Lord' has a bad habit of dropping in on psychopaths, ordering them into 'Holy War'.

helian,

Shame on you.

That is a very bad, misrepresentation, of what our God has stated, that he requires of us.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:05pm:

Yes the blood of the Passover lamb [in Egypt], was the symbolic representation, of the blood of the Christ. ....the Redeemer of Israel. And the words you quoted, merely acknowledge, IN THE WORD OF GOD, the redemption of the Jews, being those who spoke those same words to Pilate.

Yes, the passage the Church used to justify 2 millennia of Jewish persecution.


Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:05pm:

'in hoc signum vincit' I have no idea what those words signify.

In this sign, we conquer.

What Constantine the Great was reputed to have claimed Jesus said to him before his victory at the Milvian Bridge... Referring to chi-rho - the sign for Christ.


Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:05pm:

helian, Shame on you. That is a very bad, misrepresentation, of what our God has stated, that he requires of us.

And yet so many Christians claim 'the Lord' speaks to them with all manner of sin ordained. With St Paul leading the way in this idea, it's always been a bit hard for the Church to suppress the revelations that are often the purpose of the visitations. Paul managed to convince the elders of the Jerusalem Church that his claims were genuine. By the time they realised they'd let the wrong one in, it was too late.

Yep from what you say helian I can tell that you hang out with lots of  Christians and theologians and...

Well poor bloody helian, a boring hypocritical bunch of tosspots who self congratulate each others delusions, would be a hellish group of companions to be stuck with.

But then Grendel would never let the truth get in the way of making an outrageous statement, his denialism is testament to just what foolishness impresses him.
But really Grendel, US is 75% christian???? really?
I suppose if you get up to 147% in america it may be true.

Yes last time I looked at the US demographics 75% of US citizens in their census? considered themselves Christian.

So what's up your nose Mozz...  just like to kick Grendel at every opportunity ?  Why?

I note I'm the only one you serve it up to personally and my replies have probably been the mildest and least religiously based.

You need to seek some help...  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Religious_affiliation

The United States government does not collect religious data in its census. The survey below, the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2008, was a random digit-dialed telephone survey of 54,461 American residential households in the contiguous United States. The 1990 sample size was 113,723; 2001 sample size was 50,281

2008
% adults 94.8
Total identifying as Christian 76%

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 7:08pm:

Yep from what you say helian I can tell that you hang out with lots of  Christians and theologians and...

... and I've never met any who would admit that they could truly love their enemies... Not because of any innate predilection for hypocrisy, but because the idea of it is ridiculous. That's the real impossibility before breakfast. Yet despite this non-subscription, it is a concept that is so often espoused as the core of the Christian ethos.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 11:21pm:

Quote: And we both know that Christianity is the only thing that allows you to mouth off. Actually when Christianity ruled the Western countries, you couldn't speak anything not sanctioned by the Church, or you'd be burned for blasphemy. The freedom of speech in Western countries is a direct result of secularisation and the widespread adoption of atheism/agnosticism. If it were up to the Church, it would never have ended up like this, and again... you well know it.

Is it why the famously silly Palestinian resistance fighter, who led the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the USSR, went there to help to fight against the freedom of speech and secularism in Western countries?  ;)

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 9:55pm:

Quote: We know you are barbarians, we know your tactics, we know you are bullsh!tting We both know that list is the actions of Christians at war, not Muslims. Maybe one day you'll be honest enough with yourself to openly admit it, and see the error of your ways... I'm not holding my breath though.

Islam is the hole in the sock. It is like a parasite, it lives by devouring what it comes in contact with.The history of Islam is bloody - bloody within and bloody on its borders. Always.
It is against curiousity, against learning, against inquiry. It erases the history, the memory, the accumulated customs and knowledge of all the peoples it conquers. Like a shark: it swims to eat, it eats to swim. It creates nothing. When it is in power, it stulifies, stupifies, suffocates the people it has entwined. It is nothing but rebellion onto submission. Then it's stupor.

BTW, go ahead, hold your breath.