Quote:

IRAN¿S former premier Mir Hossein Mousavi accused hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of "undermining" the Islamic republic's dignity during his four-year term, in a television debate on Wednesday ahead of next week's presidential poll. Ahmadinejad's government “has undermined the dignity of our nation,” said Mousavi who is considered the conservative president's main challenger in the June 12 election. “It has inflicted heavy damages on us and created tension with other countries. It has left us with not a single friend in the region,” said Mousavi, a moderate. The “mismanagement” of the country by Ahmadinejad's government forced him to enter the presidential race, Mousavi said in the debate aired by the English-language station Press TV. He charged that Ahmadinejad's foreign policy suffers from “adventurism, instability, exhibitionism and extremism.” Mousavi, who was Iran's last prime minister before the post was scrapped in 1989, is seeking a comeback after two decades of political wilderness. He is reputed to have steered Iran's economy during the eight-year war with Iraq that ended in 1988. Ahmadinejad, who opened the debate, said he and his government have been facing sustained “attacks” from Mousavi and his supporters, like two-time former presidents Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and reformist Mohammad Khatami. “They said in six months this government will fall apart ... they tried to crush this government,” said Ahmadinejad who is seeking a second term in office. “I have tolerated insults against me and my government over the past four years. I have been called a dictator,” he said, adding that his position on the Holocaust has also been criticised by his opponents. “I have my position on the Holocaust. The (supreme) leader has approved it and it has the backing of the people.” Earlier on Wednesday, Ahmadinejad, known for his anti-Israeli tirades, said the Holocaust was a “big deception.” The incumbent president said that next week's election was not a race between four candidates but one that is pitting “three people against one,” a reference to presidential hopefuls Mousavi, former parliamentary speaker Mehdi Karroubi and ex-head of Revolutionary Guards, Mohsen Rezai. “It is all against one person,” he said. And in a rare move, Ahmadinehad accused some supporters of Mousavi, especially sons of Rafsanjani, of having received financial privileges in the past. Mousavi countered by saying that the “evasion of laws” under Ahmadinejad's government was leading to “minor dictatorship by not respecting the parliament and other top bodies.” At one point, Ahmadinejad made a scathing personal attack on Mousavi, saying his wife, who he did not name, had “received her PhD without attending university exams”. “This is lawlessness. My government is based on laws and regulations,” he said showing a white coloured photo copy which he said was the doctorate's degree of Zahra Rahnavard. A visibly angry, Mousavi shot back saying his wife “is a prominent intellectual who had worked for 10 years to get her PhD”. “She has done research in Koranic studies,” he said, and then used the opportunity to urge Iranians to vote on June 12 to “change the situation.” “I am coming to change the situation ... to change this mentality, so that nobody suffers from public accusation. You (Ahmadinejad) are endangering the country,” Mousavi said, cutting short the conservative opponent who was trying to counter-attack. Mousavi also poured scorn on Ahmadinejad's foreign policy. “You say the United States is collapsing, you say Israel is collapsing. On the basis of these slogans, you make the foreign policy,” he said. “I belong to people. I go to people. They will judge the situation which is dangerous for the country, therefore I entered the race.” The debate was the second of a total of six.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25585615-2703,00.html

Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote.

Quote:

Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote.

I fear for his life already.

Actually I am surprised that he was allowed to say that and that he is still alive since he did.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 3:17pm:

Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote.

A moderate muslim, Sprint.

This could be a very interesting election to follow.


Quote:

POLITICAL history was made last night when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran's President, was forced to abandon an election rally because the crowds who gathered to hear him were too vast. As many as 50,000 fanatical supporters of the Islamic fundamentalist President had stood jam-packed for four hours in suffocating heat inside a vast prayer hall in Tehran. Outside, an overflow crowd almost as great blocked all access to the venue. Officials said Mr Ahmadinejad's vehicles spent 90 minutes trying to force their way through, without success. There was talk of him holding the rally outside, but the idea was dropped when officials warned that people would be crushed to death. As Mr Ahmadinejad's disappointed followers flooded on to the streets, supporters of the President's strongest rival, the reformist Mir Hossein Mousavi, mounted their own show of might. Tens of thousands of them, all dressed in green, formed a human chain running the length of Valiasr, the thoroughfare that runs 30km from the north to the south of the Iranian capital. As darkness fell last night the city was in chaos, with all traffic paralysed and rival groups rampaging through the streets in support of two leaders with radically different visions for the future of their country. It was a highly combustible situation and testimony to the extraordinary passions and excitement generated by Friday's election in which Mr Mousavi, a former prime minister, is fighting to become the first challenger to defeat a sitting president in the 30-year history of the Islamic Republic. Iranians say that the only other presidential election that has caused such fervour was when Mohammed Khatami was swept into power on a tide of reformist fervour in 1997. The chasm that has opened up in Iranian society after four years of Mr Ahmadinejad's ultra-conservative, socially repressive presidency were starkly apparent yesterday. The President's rally matched any that Barack Obama held last year in both size and ardour. It was attended by the deeply devout, the working poor - Iranians still consumed by revolutionary fervour. The men were bearded and draped in red, white and green Iranian flags; the women dressed in all-encompassing black chadors with their headscarves drawn tight. The sexes were segregated. The supporters regard Mr Ahmadinejad as Iran's saviour, the man who has rescued his country after the decadence of the Khatami era and restored its prestige. "He brought the revolution back to its true course," Mohammed Saberi, 25, a student, said. "He's stood up to our enemies. He's stood up to the United States with all its strength," said Hassan Khani, 47, paralysed by shrapnel in the Iran-Iraq War, who was in a wheelchair. The surging, seething sea of humanity demonstrated its commitment through sheer endurance. All afternoon it filled the massive hall with deafening noise, chanting "Ahmadi is our love", "Death to Israel", "Down with the enemies of Islam" and "Mousavi is a liar". Hour after hour, the frenzied multitude sang religious songs, recited verses from the Koran and roared approval for a string of sports stars, film directors and other Iranian celebrities who endorsed the President. Barriers were swept aside. War veterans in wheelchairs were lifted over the heads of the multitudes to stop them being crushed. Those who collapsed in the intense heat were likewise passed through the crowds. The Mousavi supporters who filled Valiasr were the polar opposite - predominantly young, liberal, urban and middle-class, people who are compelled to obey Islamic strictures in public but enjoy western lifestyles in the privacy of their own homes. Here there was no segregation. Women wore make-up, sunglasses, jeans beneath open chadors, and headscarves that left most of their hair exposed. The men had daubed themselves in green facepaint, ribbons and headbands. Some even held hands. With just four days left before the election, the morality police have all but vanished from Tehran's streets and young Iranians are using the rare opportunity to run amok. Well into the early hours, the streets are filled with honking cars awash with campaign posters, young men and women hanging from the windows, music blaring and hazard lights flashing. At every junction rival groups of supporters chanted and jeered at each other. If the vote were in Tehran alone, Mr Mousavi would be likely to romp home, but Mr Ahmadinejad has assiduously courted Iran's more rural areas and is running as a champion of ordinary people fighting a corrupt urban elite. The two other candidates, Mehdi Karoubi and Mohsen Rezaie, stand little chance, but will split the reformist and conservative votes respectively. There are also fears of vote-rigging. Most independent observers predict that no candidate will achieve 50 per cent on Friday, pitching Mr Ahmadinejad and Mr Mousavi into a run-off a week later.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25609183-2703,00.html

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 9^th, 2009 at 1:11pm:

This could be a very interesting election to follow.

Doesn’t look like a change of guard to me.
But must admit that I will be more than happy to be wrong.

Moderate governments on both sides are prerequisite to any compromise and mutual agreement.

Shia and Persian dominance in the region has been supported by the disproportionate Shia control of oil and the Iranian Islamic Revolution. Lets see if the Iranians are ready to risk weakening one of its pillars. The rewards may be great (with an improvement in relations then likely with the US and the West), but is the ruling class prepared to allow the erosion of the revolution's ideals.

I'm optimistic that Mousavi will win and confidant from there that democracy and freedom will wrest control

Democracy and freedom have little to do with each other, and I doubt very much that a conservative Islamic nation wants "freedom" in the Western liberal sense of the term, despite all attention the media loves to give the pseudo yuppies on Tehran's north side.

It seems to me that the two Iranian candidates are merely debating foreign policy in the same way America's political parties do.  To translate, Ahmadinejad would perhaps be considered a "neoconservative" or a "unilateralist" in the West and his opponent would be considered a "realist" or a "multilateralist".

If Mousavi were to win, the United States will likely return to the same rhetoric we used when the "reformist" Khatami was President.  We will simply charge that Iran isn't a "real" democracy and that the President has little power compared to the Council of Guardians.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 7:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:17pm: Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote. A moderate muslim, Sprint.

There is no such animal.


helian,

A moderate moslem, is a faerie, living at the bottom of your garden.






The Hadith...

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.196


"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.025


"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260


ISLAMIC law texts declare whom moslems can 'lawfully' kill,
....'unbelievers', especially 'unbelievers' who oppose the spread of ISLAM...

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110


n.b. "Whoever......*becomes an unbeliever*.....his blood may legally be spilled."




p.s. The only moderate moslems in the world, are the ones like abu, who are living in Australia, moslems who assure us, that ISLAM is really peaceful and tolerant.
/sarc off

All of the other moslems,
....ARE REAL MOSLEMS.

Why our “fair shake of the sauce bottle” Premier Rudd doesn’t call forum to debate this issue?

He had few brainstorming activities already including white paper and whatever paper and this is quite an issue.

yep, the comment is rising from iran.


Quote:

Cleric fires new shots in Iran poll war of words DAYS before Iran's presidential election, one of the country's most powerful clerics, Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, has issued an open letter complaining that the country's Supreme Leader has remained silent in the face of "insults, lies and false allegations" by incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The unusual letter reflects the intensity of campaigning before tomorrow's election, laying bare the deep political rifts and sore feelings within the country's leadership. It is rare for senior Iranian clerics to publicly criticise the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/cleric-fires-new-shots-in-iran-poll-war-of-words-20090610-c3ly.html

This is what happens with the promise of freedom of speech.
All sorts of people pop up and say stuff !!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/12/2596106.htm?section=justin VOTE-RIGGING FEARS CLOUD IRAN VOTE By Middle East correspondent Ben Knight for AM A leading expert on Iran says there is a great deal of public concern today's presidential elections could be rigged in favour of the incumbent government. The election could decide whether the country opens up to the West or deepens its isolation. Hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad appears to be facing a serious challenge, with strong support for reformist candidates. Of the four running in this election, only the President is refusing to open up talks with the United States and he retains huge support among the country's poor voters. Former prime minister Mir Hossein Mousavi has been attracting many of the country's younger voters. But professor Ali Ansari has told ABC 1's Lateline that the other candidates and the public are aware of the possibility of cheating. "A lot of the criticism of this has emanated not just from the moderates or the reformists but even from some pragmatic conservatives and others who have really raised alarm bells at every possible avenue of the potential for cheating," he said. "Iranians themselves are aware of this but I think measures are taking place to ensure that this is at the very least minimalised." Aside from the rigging concerns, picking a winner is impossible and the vote is likely to go to a run-off election next week. CONTRADICTIONS One of the first things to notice when walking around the capital, Tehran, is that common-held perceptions about the country ring true. Women are covered up from head to foot and the buildings carry giant murals glorifying the Grand Ayatollah Khamenei and vilifying the US and Israel. And the traffic is appalling. Conversely the city and its people have a capacity for surprise. In local parks women can be seen skateboarding in hijabs and people love American basketball. Many of them are just trying to live normal lives under very, very tight restrictions. They actually admire the West and its freedoms, and privately, they will tell you so. And those two sides of Iran are clashing head on in this election campaign. The capital has been in a frenzy this week as the wave of support for Mr Mousavi grows. Those Iranians who despise Mr Ahmadinejad and the Islamic regime got braver by the day about speaking out. "I do hope that after so many years of torture, all the dictators will be toppled," one man said. "It is a counter revolution. It's about one week that I see what I look forward to seeing for 30 years." Most people here would never dream of going that far but within the boundaries of their own courage, they are making a statement. For young women, it might simply be wearing their headscarf back as far as they dare at the mass rallies for the reformist candidates. Iran has never seen an election like this. Millions of people are desperate for change and to end the cold war with the West and have freedom of expression inside their own country. At a rally for Mr Mousavi's, his wife Zahra Rahnavard left the crowd in doubt what was going on. "The young people who will turn this 10th presidential election into a revolution within a revolution," she said. People here remember the disappointment of the Khatami years. He was the reformist president who never fulfilled their hopes. Mr Mousavi has raised them again, even higher than before. So if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is returned and Iran's isolation deepens, will the supporters of reform quietly go back to the life they had? The other reformist candidate, Mehdi Karroubi, says if that is the case, people will be disappointed. "But you as Westerners have developed a baseless expectation and local politicians make you confused," he said. It may well be that if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is returned as president, people will quietly go back to the lives they led before. For all the excitement, Iran is still under the control of its supreme leader, the Grand Ayatollah Khamenei, and has a much feared security police. Demonstrations are not tolerated and it is highly likely that those who have already spoken out in this campaign will have a heavy price to pay afterwards.

Quite good reason why opposition might have some bigger problems, after vote and reconfirmation of current government is over.

I see the great spirit of liberty arising within the people here.


Quote:

In local parks women can be seen skateboarding in hijabs and people love American basketball. Many of them are just trying to live normal lives under very, very tight restrictions. They actually admire the West and its freedoms, and privately, they will tell you so. And those two sides of Iran are clashing head on in this election campaign. The capital has been in a frenzy this week as the wave of support for Mr Mousavi grows.

and
Quote:

Most people here would never dream of going that far but within the boundaries of their own courage, they are making a statement. For young women, it might simply be wearing their headscarf back as far as they dare at the mass rallies for the reformist candidates. Iran has never seen an election like this. Millions of people are desperate for change and to end the cold war with the West and have freedom of expression inside their own country.

If vote is going to be rigged and supporters of freedom are not willing to revolt there is little chance for change now.

Maybe some other time.

yes, if not this time, the seeds have been sown.
There will be another time.




Quote:

.........Mr Ahmadinejad told supporters in his final rally: "Let the world know that if the Iranian nation should re-elect this small servant, he would go forward in the world arena with the nation's authority and would not withdraw one iota from the nation's rights." In an ominous warning that the huge support for the Mousavi campaign may not be enough to win the election, Mr Ahmadinejad said he had "information" that his opponents had "found out" they had lost. The cryptic comment came before ballot boxes had opened. The Mousavi campaign has strong support in the capital, Tehran, particularly among younger voters. The Ahmadinejad campaign is believed to be stronger in rural and poorer areas......

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25623796-601,00.html


this article tells me a few things.
1/ Ahmadinejad is a fanatical muslim
2/ He probably can cheat, but will say anything he wants.
3/ His supporters are poor and stupid.

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 11^th, 2009 at 2:06am:

Democracy and freedom have little to do with each other, and I doubt very much that a conservative Islamic nation wants "freedom" in the Western liberal sense of the term, despite all attention the media loves to give the pseudo yuppies on Tehran's north side. It seems to me that the two Iranian candidates are merely debating foreign policy in the same way America's political parties do.  To translate, Ahmadinejad would perhaps be considered a "neoconservative" or a "unilateralist" in the West and his opponent would be considered a "realist" or a "multilateralist". If Mousavi were to win, the United States will likely return to the same rhetoric we used when the "reformist" Khatami was President.  We will simply charge that Iran isn't a "real" democracy and that the President has little power compared to the Council of Guardians.

That's a good observation of real politics in Iran.

Mousavi probably would NOT say he wanted israel wiped from thre planet.
There IS a difference.

tallowood wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 8:02pm:

That's a good observation of real politics in Iran.

And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 10:10pm:

tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state.

I wonder how independent they really are?

tallowood wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 10:20pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:10pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state. I wonder how independent they really are?

Check out the Iranian Constitution.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 10:22pm:

tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:20pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:10pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state. I wonder how independent they really are? Check out the Iranian Constitution.

Which one? They had quiet a few over years?
Which one did you read?

tallowood wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 10:45pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:22pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:20pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:10pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state. I wonder how independent they really are? Check out the Iranian Constitution. Which one? They had quiet a few over years? Which one did you read?

The Constitution of 1979 (amended 1989).

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 10:50pm:

tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:45pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:22pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:20pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:10pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state. I wonder how independent they really are? Check out the Iranian Constitution. Which one? They had quiet a few over years? Which one did you read? The Constitution of 1979 (amended 1989).

Did you read it?

tallowood wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 11:19pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:50pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:45pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:22pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:20pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:10pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state. I wonder how independent they really are? Check out the Iranian Constitution. Which one? They had quiet a few over years? Which one did you read? The Constitution of 1979 (amended 1989). Did you read it?

Yeah.

The butler did it.

Darn it, there was a whisper of this in another article.


Quote:

HARDLINE President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad resoundingly won Iran's election, preliminary official results showed on Saturday, but his moderate challenger alleged irregularities and claimed victory for himself. The level of the incumbent's support, roughly twice as many votes as former Prime Minister Mirhossein Mousavi with most ballots counted, confounded analyst predictions of a tight race. A bitterly fought campaign generated intense excitement inside Iran and strong interest around the world, with policymakers looking for signs of a change in Tehran's approach in a long-running row with the West over its nuclear ambitions. Listing several complaints before official results were announced, Mr Mousavi said many people had not been able to vote and that there had been a lack of ballot papers. He also accused authorities of blocking text messaging, with which his campaign tried to reach young, urban voters.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25631072-12377,00.html

before the ballot boxes had closed, the old madman declared the new guy had lost already

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 10:10pm:

tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state.

Which, of course, is by far the more important position.

A SENIOR Israeli official said yesterday the consensus among his colleagues in Jerusalem was that a victory for the hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the Iranian elections would be in Israel's best interest.

"His extremism and his calls for Israel's destruction have pushed the international community to try to head off Iran's nuclear program," he said.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25627629-15084,00.html


Ahh... The wiley joos win again, eh?? They musta rigged it for old Imadinnerjacket.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12^th, 2009 at 11:36pm:

tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:19pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:50pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:45pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:22pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:20pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:10pm: tallowood wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 8:02pm: That's a good observation of real politics in Iran. And an obvious one. The Iranian President is more like a head of government than head of state. I wonder how independent they really are? Check out the Iranian Constitution. Which one? They had quiet a few over years? Which one did you read? The Constitution of 1979 (amended 1989). Did you read it? Yeah. The butler did it.

The butler told me that Iran is staffed not because of Iranians but because most of them are muslims.  :o

tallowood wrote on Jun 13^th, 2009 at 10:00pm:

The butler told me that Iran is staffed not because of Iranians but because most of them are muslims.  :o

Staffed? What, with butlers?

sorn - the wiley joos are amazing at their logic.

I read where they reckoned it was good that the extreme hamas won and killed the more moderate.
Cause now it showed the hamas up for what they were, and ALL the responsibility was on their shoulders.

maybe abu can clear this up for us.
one muslims says another one cheated his way to a polls victory .
Who is wrong ?




Quote:

Defeated Iranian presidential candidate Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani has reacted angrily to his surprise loss to hardline opponent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. In his first public statement following the election result, the moderate cleric alleged that an illegal dirty tricks campaign had been mounted. The US meanwhile said Iran was out of step with current trends in the region. Mr Ahmadinejad won 62% of the vote in Friday's presidential run-off poll - nearly twice Mr Rafsanjani's backing. The conservative president-elect said his win was a blow to the country's enemies - an apparent reference to the US, which had criticised the election as flawed. Mr Rafsanjani, who was president between 1989 and 1997, was the favourite going into the election and had re-cast himself as a liberal who was more willing to engage with the West. Conservatives are now in control of every elected and unelected institution of government in Iran. 'Revolution weakened' In a statement carried by the ISNA news agency, Mr Rafsanjani said: "All the means of the regime were used in an organised and illegal way to intervene in the election." He condemned "those who spent hundreds of billions of rials (tens of millions of US dollars) of the people's money to defame me and my family". However, Mr Rafsanjani said he would not be appealing against the result, saying Iran's judiciary had shown it "cannot or do not want to do anything. This I will leave to God." The 70-year-old concluded: "I entered this election uniquely to serve the revolution, Islam, Iran and the people. Those who weakened a competitor chose to weaken the revolution. "I hope the country will be cleared of these enemies and profiteers who are without logic or faith." Mr Rafsanjani nonetheless said that "everyone should help" President-elect Ahmadinejad, who is currently the Mayor of Tehran. International reaction The White House responded to the poll result by expressing support for "those who call for greater freedom for the Iranian people". The State Department said Iran was "out of step... with the currents of freedom and liberty that have been so apparent in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon". UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said there were "serious deficiencies" in the election, noting that many reformists, and all women candidates, had been barred from standing. He urged the new president to deal with international concerns over Iran's nuclear programme. The European Union said it was ready to work with "any Iranian government" willing to progress on the questions of human rights, nuclear energy and other matters of concern......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4622955.stm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 14^th, 2009 at 12:31pm:

maybe abu can clear this up for us. one muslims says another one cheated his way to a polls victory . Who is wrong ?

You idiot.

Iran used to be a good place to visit before the revolution. Now its a cesspool.

Calanen wrote on Jun 14^th, 2009 at 1:26pm:

Iran used to be a good place to visit before the revolution. Now its a cesspool.

It is still good to visit if you are a serious arms dealer.
Also you should consider that it may be allah's design to keep muslim world divided.

Pity we have had a dictator cheat iranians of their 1st chance of a democracy.

Still, this was always on the cards.




Quote:

THE next 48 hours will be crucial in deciding the immediate crisis in Iran. For a few hours yesterday, the regime headed by supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei appeared to be losing control of the country. But by last night, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was inviting supporters to celebrate his victory near the scene of much of the capital's turmoil. Iran is not used to public displays of rebellion such as thousands of people chanting "Down with the dictator." The country has not seen anything like this since the fall of the shah and the rise of the Islamic revolution in 1979. The regime was surprised by the numbers who took to the streets over the weekend, and their level of anger. Many people approached me and other journalists to say the election had been "a big cheat", "a lie" or "a theft". As the government realised the extent of the backlash, it mobilised its full force. The riot police and the Revolutionary Guards, both loyal to Mr Ahmadinejad, were in no mood for subtlety. It was obvious when they arrived that the orders were to break up the crowds quickly. At one intersection they charged, hitting whoever was in their path. While the regime's tactics are clear, the key now will be how the opposition responds. The opposition students' strategy appears to be to build a critical mass in public. As in Beijing's Tiananmen Square 20 years ago this month, crowds are the big threat to this autocratic regime. The authorities' worst fear is that 200,000 people would block off central Tehran, allowing the crowd to swell. They see this not just as an election protest but as a threat to the regime, with Ayatollah Khamenei warning: "Enemies may want to spoil the sweetness of the Iranian nation's victory in this election." Most of those protesting in the streets would not have been born when the Islamic revolution occurred 30 years ago. One of them, a doctor, said: "I am Muslim because my father was Muslim. That's all." He is typical of the alienated. He is a professional with two children and a comfortable life. But he says he is angry that he has no choice about the type of society he lives in. He refused to vote, saying that would only give legitimacy to the religious figures who run Iran without having to face the people at a ballot box. He said he was planning to smash a ballot box. He wanted to make a statement before the international media. In the end, he stayed away -- wisely -- but he typifies younger Iranians who have lost faith in their country. The reason young people are at the forefront of the opposition is that through the internet, university networks and travel they can see the choices that are available in other countries. They have no hostility towards Islam -- many are proud Muslims. They just want more than a religious state that enforces strict codes of behaviour. More violence is almost certain. But this regime, with the sheer weight of force, will shut down public dissent after a few tragic days. Longer term, the ayatollahs must work out how to deal with an angry and alienated group. The international response to the crisis was cautious. Kevin Rudd said Iran's nuclear ambitions had destabilised the region. "This will be a difficult period ahead for the international community with the apparent re-election of Mr Ahmadinejad," Mr Rudd said. US President Barack Obama's push for dialogue with Iran faces new obstacles. "We obviously hope the (election) outcome reflects the genuine will and desire of the Iranian people," US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said. Israel voiced concerns over the return of Mr Ahmadinejad, who has called for the Jewish state to be wiped off the map. "The results of the election show, now more than ever, how much stronger the Iranian threat has become," Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25635207-15084,00.html

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 15^th, 2009 at 1:32pm:

Pity we have had a dictator cheat iranians of their 1st chance of a democracy. Still, this was always on the cards.

They may have been cheated of their democracy this time... but it won't be the first time. The first time was in 1953 when Britain and the US conspired to overthrow the democratically elected Mosaddeq government and reinstall the Shah which, with the Shah degrading into a despot, lead to the abomination of the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

Looks like the pressure is building - not that any crazed islamic dictator gives a toss about that.


Quote:

IRAN'S defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi has lodged a formal appeal on calling for last week's disputed election to be annulled. Iran's defeated presidential election candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi at a news conference in Tehran. Picture: Reuters His appeal came as Iran refused to allow Mr Mousavi’s call for a nationwide march to protest the disputed return of hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as Iran's president. “No authorisation for a march or gathering has been issued and any kind of gathering or march is illegal,” an official with the interior ministry's public relations department told AFP. “This statement is being issued after a request was made by Mr Mousavi to hold a march.” The former premier had submitted a request on Sunday to hold a march to protest the landslide re-election of hardline Mr Ahmadinejad in a vote on Friday he claims was rigged. The backlash to the election came amid warnings from Iranian political analysts that the return of hardliner Mr Ahmadinejad will weaken the Islamic republic and isolate it further from the rest of the world. “Ahmadinejad's government will be weakened both within and abroad,” said Tehran-based analyst Saeed Laylaz. Mr Ahmadinejad was declared victorious with a thumping majority but is facing stiff protests from Mr Mousavi, who has charged that votes were rigged to ensure Mr Ahmadinejad's return to power. Mr Mousavi has condemned the election result as a “charade”. Mr Ahmadinejad's victory has rattled not just large number of Iranians but also much of the international community. Vice President Joe Biden has cast doubt on the validity of Mr Ahmadinejad's re-election in Iran, as European powers condemned the police crackdown that followed the poll. “There is an awful lot of questions about how this election was run,” Mr Biden said in an interview with NBC television on Sunday. “It sure looks like the way they are suppressing speech, the way they're suppressing crowds, the way in which people are being treated, that there are some real doubts about that,” he said. Post-election protests and rioting on a scale not seen in Iran for a decade erupted on Saturday and touched off a police crackdown with some 170 people arrested. “We are highly concerned because there was the beginning of a dialogue” between Iran's rival political factions, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said in Paris. “I am sorry that instead of openness there has been a somewhat brutal reaction,” M Kouchner said. In Berlin, Germany's top diplomat called the police crackdown “unacceptable” and also raised questions about the legitimacy of the vote. “Reports of (voting) irregularities are a concern. I expect the authorities in Tehran to examine these accusations as closely as possible and to provide a comprehensive explanation.” London-based Amnesty International also called for an investigation into “the shocking scenes of violence meted out by the security forces”. ........

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25638993-2703,00.html



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6674278,00.jpg

Iran's supreme (ie religious) leader has inctructed the opposition leader to take the election outcome to the courts, and also asked clerics to begin investigating.

Iran's unsurprising farce

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/15/iran-elections-ahmadinejad

With hindsight, we should have seen it coming. Why should a man who has bluffed, blustered, twisted, intimidated and – let's not dignify it with higher prose – lied his way through his four-year term of office surrender power to the whim of anything so mundane as a ballot box?

We do not yet have any forensic proof that Iran's presidential election was stolen – and given the country's notorious opacity, it may never emerge – but the circumstantial evidence is compelling. The aftermath of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's re-election by an alleged landslide resembles, as the respected American academic on Iranian affairs, Juan Cole, put it, "a crime scene". Legitimate election wins are generally not accompanied by mass arrests of opposition members, the blocking of mobile phone networks and a multitude of news websites, or the forced closure of other candidates' headquarters, to name but three highly irregular developments that have all the hallmarks of a coup d'état.

For many (and not just the usual scapegoats of supposedly blinkered western journalists), it is a profound shock, especially since the reformist candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, seemed to have the wind and a tidal wave of popular support in his sails.

It shouldn't have been. The brazen manner of Ahmadinejad's power grab is simply a fulfilment of his nature and that of his acolytes. Anyone who lived in Iran – as I did – during Ahmadinejad's first term will recognise that the developments of the past few days are rooted in a political approach that emphasises chutzpah and a ruthless will to power at the expense of consensus and dissent.

That philosophy was explained to me a couple of years ago by Ebrahim Yazdi, leader of the Freedom Movement and foreign minister in Iran's first post-revolutionary government. Yazdi characterised Ahmadinejad's surprise 2005 election victory as a "velvet coup d'état" which was reinforced via a "victory through terrorisation" credo. "The philosophy is that you terrorise people in order to succeed," Yazdi said.

The great election robbery is its latest manifestation. Neither Ahmadinejad nor his patron-in-chief, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei – Iran's supreme leader in whom ultimate authority is presumed to reside – have ever had much use for democratic niceties.

During the 2005 election campaign, Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying that "Iran did not have a revolution in order to have democracy". His behaviour ever since has reflected that belief, even if the window dressing of elections and their accompanying paraphernalia – colourful campaigns and televised debates, et al – have been preserved for appearance's sake.

Ahmadinejad's 2005 win was tainted with allegations of ballot fraud, which appears in retrospect to be a dry run for the present scenario. His presidency has been marked by the closure of critical newspapers, magazines and websites, the hounding of officials of previous governments, and well-publicised crackdowns on women's activists and people wearing the wrong clothes. He is, in short, no respecter of personal freedoms or civil liberties.

During this year's campaign, Mousavi accused Ahmadinejad of pursuing policies that would lead to dictatorship. It seemed a bit far-fetched. Yet suspicions of Ahmadinejad's intentions have been fuelled by reports of his admiration for constitutional reforms introduced by his friend and ally, the Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez, that would dispense with term limits and allow him to seek re-election indefinitely. Likewise, he seemed to forestall the outcome of last week's election in remarks to aides, saying: "The other candidates know that I am going to be elected president once again. Why are they committing suicide and making propaganda just to collect votes?"

It is this backdrop that is shrouding Ahmadinejad's re-election in billowing mushroom clouds of suspicion, not some mythological failure of visiting western journalists to leave their temporary boltholes in affluent north Tehran, as claimed by Abbas Barzegar here on Saturday.

Barzegar painted a picture of gullible reporters buried in wishful thinking and hoodwinking themselves into exaggerating Mousavi's support by failing to leave the capital and sample the religious (and pro-Ahmadinejad) fervour prevailing in Iran's heartland. "Iran is a deeply religious society," he argued, a hackneyed assertion which – unlike election results – is impossible to quantify or measure but which westerners are presumably too dim to understand. This is sanctimonious drivel. Religion does indeed run deep in Iranian society, but Mousavi was hardly running on an atheist ticket. Nor were the other two candidates, Mehdi Karroubi (a turbaned cleric, let us remember) and Mohsen Rezai, a former revolutionary guard commander once close to the late Ayatollah Khomeini. Opposition to Ahmadinejad runs across social boundaries – and includes many who consider themselves religious.

freediver - there is already a thread on this, under "politicians suck".

Do you want to add this to that one ??

If the Iranian election turns out to be fraudulent, it would demonstrate once again that a theocracy is doomed to be a perversion of its own principles (presuming honesty and honour are included in its primary ideals).

Hopefully it will be a wake-up call to those Muslims who dream of the Caliphate's restoration as to what kind of tyranny they would be invoking.

Supreme, executive, unelected leaders will invariably be corrupted by power... A truth from which not even god can save them.

Do you honestly think the Ayatolla who has praised Allah for this victory even though he now has ordered a investigation into the election will allow any other outcome other than it being a clean result?

Grendel wrote on Jun 16^th, 2009 at 12:14pm:

Do you honestly think the Ayatolla who has praised Allah for this victory even though he now has ordered a investigation into the election will allow any other outcome other than it being a clean result?

Quote:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=825937 TWITTER STREAMS BREAK IRAN NEWS DAM 11:16 AEST Tue Jun 16 2009 1 hour 17 minutes ago By Glenn Chapman Protesters in Iran have been using Twitter for battle cries and to spread word about clashes with police and hardline supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Twitter messages, some with links to pictures, streamed from Iran on Monday despite reported efforts by authorities there to block news of protests over Ahmadinejad's insistence he had been fairly re-elected. Pictures of wounded or dead people that senders claimed were Iranian protesters ricocheted about Twitter and wound up posted at online photo-sharing websites such as Flickr as well as on YouTube. A protester was reportedly shot dead during clashes in Tehran as massive crowds of people defied a ban to stage a rally against the disputed re-election of Ahmadinejad. A local photographer said the protester had been shot with a bullet to the head and that more were wounded when violence erupted outside a local base of the Islamic Basij militia, which had been set ablaze. The trouble flared after Ahmadinejad's defeated rival Mir Hossein Mousavi appeared in public for the first time since an election that has sharply divided the nation and triggered protests and rioting. "Iranelection" was the top Twitter trend of the day, and a message thread led by "Persiankiwi" appeared to be orchestrating hacker attacks on official Iran websites while firing off updates on developments in the streets. "We are going offline to get a phone free for calling out," Persiankiwi tweeted at midday. "We are also moving location - too long here - is dangerous." A subsequent Persiankiwi tweet reads "Attacked in streets by mob on motorbikes with batons - firing guns into air - street fires all over town - roads closed." Twitter users were also slamming mainstream media outlets for not covering the Iranian election aftermath more intensely. A "CNNfail" thread at the US-based micro-blogging service critiqued the cable news network's coverage throughout the weekend. "This is all seriously power to the people, in more ways than one," a Twitter member using the screen name "kianarama" tweeted. Twitter was being used as an international command centre by people intent on keeping news from Iran flowing at online social-networking services. Twitter users such as "bwernson" shared lists of proxy computer servers that could be used to sidestep internet traffic blocks in Iran. Even if a regime manages to block internet and mobile telephone communication, there is still "sneakernet," a reference to taking hard drives or memory sticks loaded with data beyond the reach of the censorship. "In the end, as long as there is a way to communicate at all there is always a way to make messages move and get them out to the broader world," said Erik Hersman, who co-founded "crowd-sourcing" mobile telephone platform Ushadidi in Kenya last year. "There is always a way to make messages move and get them out to the broader world. Of all the mediums, SMS is just the lowest barrier to entry and the easiest to propagate." Twitter users can text messages of no more than 140 characters to unlimited numbers of mobile telephones. Tweets can also be read online at Twitter.com. "Nonviolent resistance movements are typically driven by students, young people who are increasingly born digital natives," Ushadidi board member Patrick Meier wrote in a presentation posted online at iRevolution. "Resistance movements are likely to make even more use of new communication technology and digital media in the future. At the same time, however, the likelihood and consequences of getting caught are high." "Organisational hierarchies are being broken down as youth adopt new technologies," Meier said.

As it was mentioned before, anything can be said and done to uphold and progress muslim religion’s supremacy.

Looks that some young lives will be lost in doomed cause.
Number of casualties depends on when they give up.

Quote:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=825866 ONE PROTESTER SHOT DEAD IN IRAN: REPORT 10:50 AEST Tue Jun 16 2009 A protester has reportedly been shot dead and several people have been wounded during clashes in Tehran as massive crowds defied a ban to stage a rally against the disputed re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. International criticism of the crackdown on opposition protests and the election mounted on Monday, with US President Barack Obama saying he was "deeply troubled" by the violence. An Iranian photographer, declining to be named, told AFP that the fatal incident occurred in front of a local base of the Basij volunteer militia, which was set on fire. The dead man had been shot in the head. Pictures of the incident showed armed men, wearing helmets and in civilian clothes, pointing guns at the crowds from the rooftop of the base. The photographer said the protester was killed by shots fired by the armed men. If the death is confirmed, it would be the first since the violence erupted, the worst in Iran since student demonstrations in 1999 triggered a week of unrest across the nation. An AFP correspondent at the rally also said police had clashed with protesters and that crowds of people were seen fleeing. He said shots were heard and a plume of thick black smoke billowed into the sky above a central square. Police also fired tear-gas as dozens of protesters set motorbikes, tyres and rubbish bins ablaze. Witnesses said the clashes erupted at the end of the rally when armed men dressed in plainclothes who did not appear to belong to the police started shooting at people. Amid the escalation, Iran's electoral watchdog, the Guardians Council, said it will soon take a decision on the complaints of vote-rigging filed by defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi. The violence flared after Mousavi appeared in public for the first time since an election that has sharply divided the nation and triggered a wave of protests and rioting. "God willing, we will take back our rights," Mousavi shouted from the roof of a car amid a sea of hundreds of thousand of Iranians, young and old, who packed into central Tehran despite the authorities ordering a ban on the rally. Iran, battling one of its worst crises since the Islamic revolution three decades ago, faced a growing international backlash over the validity of Friday's election and the subsequent crackdown on opposition protests. US President Barack Obama said on Monday he wanted to be "very clear" that "it is up to Iranians to make a decision about who Iran's leaders will be." Obama added that he was "deeply troubled" by the violence he had been seeing in television news broadcasts from Tehran. "Whenever I see violence perpetrated on people who are peacefully dissenting, and whenever the American people see that, I think they're rightfully troubled." UN chief Ban Ki-moon has called for the will of the Iranian people to be "fully respected". European governments complained about the tactics used against protesters and added their voices to US doubt over the election outcome, with the EU calling on Tehran to launch a probe into the results. "The regime must address the serious questions which have been asked about the conduct of the Iranian elections," British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier described the action of the security forces as "completely unacceptable," while French President Nicolas Sarkozy said he wanted "full light" to be shed on the vote. Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei ordered a probe into allegations of vote-rigging after Ahmadinejad was returned to power in a landslide, an election that dented Western hopes of a change in domestic and foreign policy of the oil-rich nation. State television said Khamenei - the all-powerful spiritual leader of the Islamic republic since 1989 - had told Mousavi he had instructed the Guardians Council supervisory body "to precisely examine" his complaints. The Council head said a decision would be taken soon. "I hope it will not take long that the noble people will see that the question has been examined in the best way and we will give the result to the people," Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati said on state television. A spokesman for the 12-member Guardians Council had earlier said it would announce its decision in 10 days. Mousavi, 67, lodged a formal appeal on Sunday for the cancellation of the results of what he charges was a rigged "charade." "The vote of the people is more important than Mousavi or any other person," Mousavi told the crowds on Monday. Demonstrators, some wearing the green of Mousavi's campaign colour, swarmed into central Tehran as riot police looked on. One policeman said between 1.5 million and two million people had turned out. Monday's demonstration comes a day after the combative Ahmadinejad himself addressed a vast victory rally in Tehran to defend the results, saying the people of Iran had triumphed against the "world arrogance" (the West). The authorities have warned they would crush any "velvet revolution" in Iran and police said on Sunday they had rounded up 170 people over the protests, including a number of reformist leaders. On Saturday, Tehran witnessed widespread clashes between riot police who clubbed and tear-gassed stone-throwing protesters who set bins and vehicles on fire in violence on a scale not seen in a decade.

Post split

Grendel wrote on Jun 16^th, 2009 at 12:14pm:

Do you honestly think the Ayatolla who has praised Allah for this victory even though he now has ordered a investigation into the election will allow any other outcome other than it being a clean result?

He won't want to, but he'll risk a revolution. Like the fall of dictators in Eastern Europe, he's doomed to underestimating the level of popular anger and overestimating the regard of the people for the Islamic Republic.

Maybe Obama's Cairo speech has helped to give heart to Iranian youth that there is a way out of their theocratic hell.

Reminder


Quote:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=825866 ONE PROTESTER SHOT DEAD IN IRAN: REPORT 10:50 AEST Tue Jun 16 2009 …. The Iranian authorities have also cracked down on local and foreign media, with Mousavi's own newspaper reportedly suspended and international outlets reporting the arrest and harassment of their journalists. Telephone and internet services have also been disrupted.

Without external help this round is doomed to fail.

We live in interesting times....
at the moment my money is on Ahmadinejad...  repression and power.
I'll happily be wrong.

grendel - experience and cunning will always best youth and enthusiasm.

I believe the foundations of the Islamic Republic have been fatally damaged. The only way this theocracy will survive will be to resort to brutality and murder, but in the end the theocratic filth will be deposed and then the Mullahs will be lucky if they escape with their lives. Hopefully France won't be so kind this time as to offer them safe haven.

From some of these comments, this could be the begginning of the end of all hardline undemocratic islamic style governments.

iran this year, saudi next.


Quote:

TEHRAN is a tinderbox after government paramilitaries started shooting, killing at least one protester, following a huge public rally against last Friday's disputed re-election of President Ahmadinejad. Tens of thousands of supporters of defeated presidential candidate Mirhossein Mousavi defy a government ban by marching in downtown Tehran. Members of the Basij, a force of young Islamic hardliners, killed one demonstrator and wounded several more when their building was attacked as tens of thousands of protesters dispersed from a rally against election fraud held in defiance of a government ban. In another incident a witness told The Times how she watched from her car as riot police on six motorbikes opened fire on youths walking under a bridge after the rally. “The riot police started shooting them with big guns,” she said. “It wasn’t like the films where there is just a small hole — the shooting was blowing off hands, limbs. It was terrible, terrible.” An Iranian photographer, declining to be named, told AFP that the incident in which a man was killed occurred in front of a local base of the Basij volunteer militia, which was set on fire. The dead man had been shot in the head. Pictures of the incident showed armed men, wearing helmets and in civilian clothes, pointing guns at the crowds from the rooftop of the base. The photographer said the protester was killed by shots fired by the armed men. Gunfire was heard in at least three other districts of the Iranian capital. The Ministry of the Interior was rumoured to have authorised the use of live ammunition as the regime struggled to maintain control. Supporters of the defeated candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, fought running battles with the police and Basiji, who have flooded into Tehran. Mr Mousavi emerged from hiding for the first time since the election results were announced to address the rally. He told the crowd packed into Azadi (Freedom) Square: “God willing, we will take back our rights.” Newly emboldened, the protesters brought out their green ribbons and bandanas and chanted: “Mousavi we support you”, and “We will die, but retrieve our votes”. The show of strength boosted Mr Mousavi’s supporters, who have called for another rally and a general strike today. Demonstrations have also been reported in the cities of Esfahan, Shiraz, Mashad and Ahvaz The Iranian regime showed its first sign of alarm when Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, who at the weekend hailed the result as a “divine assessment”, instructed the Guardian Council of 12 senior clerics to investigate allegations that the election was rigged. However, the move was seen widely as a ruse to buy time. The regime’s violent response to the biggest political crisis in the Islamic Republic's 30-year history has triggered a growing international backlash. Gordon Brown warned Iran that the way it responded to legitimate protests would affect its relations with the rest of the world. David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, expressed concern at “what seems to be state violence against its own people”. President Obama said he was “deeply troubled” by the violence, and Ban Ki Moon, the UN Secretary-General, urged the regime to respect the “genuine will” of the Iranian people.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25643781-2703,00.html


suck it up abu

That's the trouble with theocracy, if you claim divine right to rule and that god assents to your reign, then you have to right at least about all the big things all the time.

Claiming Ahmadinejad's re-election as a divine assessment will prove to be Khamenei's undoing if the election was a fraud or even if it continues to be perceived as a fraud... Not only would he have been wrong about a real big thing (and then the question will be what else is he wrong about), he would have proved that he is incapable of defending the people against abuse of power.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 16^th, 2009 at 1:49pm:

That's the trouble with theocracy, if you claim divine right to rule and that god assents to your reign, then you have to right at least about all the big things all the time.

That's not accurate.  The value of a theocracy is that the religious authorities determine what truth is, and what "truth" can be disseminated through official organs.  It doesn't even matter if this conflicts with facts, as people can either be made to believe in lies, to self-censor, or to be apathetic.

In fact, the West arguably functions today as a bizarre secular theocracy wherein the "truth" is determined by the universities and media, which exhibit a disturbing uniformity of opinion much of which conflicts with reality.

The islamic crackdown and double speak continues.

Care to come out of your ivory tower and have a comment abu ???
Tell us all - "It's not islam" or "He's not a muslim" or "everyone else lies"



Quote:

SUPPORTERS of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his defeated challenger staged rival rallies overnight as the nation grappled with its worst crisis since the 1979 Islamic revolution. As the authorities imposed a clampdown on foreign media, the country's supreme leader said he was in favour of a partial recount in the election that returned Mr Ahmadinejad to power amid opposition claims of vote-rigging. State television showed massive crowds of flag-waving demonstrators packing a square in Tehran at a regime-organised rally, and similar scenes from a march by supporters of defeated presidential challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi. Iran is facing an international backlash over the election and the subsequent crackdown against the opposition, with seven people so far reported killed in unrest in Tehran. US President Barack Obama, who has called for dialogue with Iran over its contested nuclear drive, raised "deep concerns" over the election but said he would not meddle in the affairs of the Islamic republic. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said bluntly there was "fraud", in the strongest remarks so far by a Western leader. Iran has responded to criticism by summoning EU envoys. Overnight rallies were the latest show of strength by the rival camps in the fourth day of protests over the election that has exposed deep divisions in the oil-rich nation of 71 million people, mostly Shiite Muslims. State television described the regime-backed demonstration as a "unifying rally", showing images of vast crowds of demonstrators waving flags and banners. Mr Mousavi had urged his supporters not to turn up for their rally in a bid to avoid clashes, but a correspondent with Iran's English language Press TV said it had turned into a "massive" demonstration. AFP could not reach the site of the demonstrations as Iran has banned foreign media organisations from covering such events. "Hereby we inform all foreign media representatives to avoid any news coverage which has not been coordinated or authorised by this bureau," a culture ministry official said...........

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25649044-954,00.html


What's a "culture ministry official ??? A thought policeman ??
Typical oppressive islamic regime. Stamp out any opposition, rig or deny democracy.

islams on the wane

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 6:40am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:49pm: That's the trouble with theocracy, if you claim divine right to rule and that god assents to your reign, then you have to right at least about all the big things all the time. That's not accurate.  The value of a theocracy is that the religious authorities determine what truth is, and what "truth" can be disseminated through official organs.  It doesn't even matter if this conflicts with facts, as people can either be made to believe in lies, to self-censor, or to be apathetic. In fact, the West arguably functions today as a bizarre secular theocracy wherein the "truth" is determined by the universities and media, which exhibit a disturbing uniformity of opinion much of which conflicts with reality.

Yes, of course they're in fact determining what truth is. However, they're attributing their knowledge of truth to divine revelation. If 'the truth' turns out to be a lie...

Free speech to the rescue !!!!!!!



Quote:

.........The State Department official told reporters on the condition of anonymity that the Twitter service was all the more important because the Iranian government had shut down websites, mobile phones and newspapers......... ...........Protesters in Iran on Monday used Twitter for battle cries and to spread word about clashes with police and hardline supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Messages posted on the micro-blogging service, some with links to pictures, streamed from Iran despite reported efforts by authorities there to block news of protests over Ahmadinejad's claim of having been fairly re-elected. Pictures of wounded or dead people that senders claim were Iranian protesters ricocheted about Twitter and wound up posted at online photo-sharing websites such as Flickr as well as on YouTube. A protester was reportedly shot dead during clashes in Tehran as massive crowds of people defied a ban to stage a rally against the disputed re-election of Ahmadinejad........

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/us-asks-twitter-to-maintain-service-after-iran-vote-20090617-cgt7.html





Quote:

Former Iranian Crown Prince says the protests are a fundamental challenge to the Iranian Islamic regime

In the world, one has to be aware of the flow.
Currently, it is a howling gale against dictators, esp islamic ones.
Democracy and freedom of speech has rarely been more valued.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 9:58am:

In the world, one has to be aware of the flow. Currently, it is a howling gale against dictators, esp islamic ones. Democracy and freedom of speech has rarely been more valued.

Sooner or later the Islamic Republic will fall.

Theocracies are valued only by the poor, the ignorant, the stupid and the psychopathic.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 8:31am:

What's a "culture ministry official ??? A thought policeman ?? Typical oppressive islamic regime. Stamp out any opposition, rig or deny democracy.

Most nations have a culture ministry, including most in Western Europe.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 8:54am:

Yes, of course they're in fact determining what truth is. However, they're attributing their knowledge of truth to divine revelation. If 'the truth' turns out to be a lie...

If the "truth" turns out to be false, they need only to proclaim it endlessly and find new variations of this "truth".  At the same time the bar for disproving this "truth" can be continually raised while vigorous speech against this "truth" can be criminalized.  Society's elites will in turn internalize this false "truth" while those who challenge it will be ostracized and seen as weird outsiders.  This is exactly how the West functions, why would they be any different?  We just have a different set of "truths" and are a bit more sophisticated about the whole thing.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 7:45pm:

Sooner or later the Islamic Republic will fall. Theocracies are valued only by the poor, the ignorant, the stupid and the psychopathic.

Most people in the world are poor, ignorant, and stupid, so it doesn't look too good for your prediction.

And by the way, which of these was Oliver Cromwell?

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:27am:

If the "truth" turns out to be false, they need only to proclaim it endlessly and find new variations of this "truth".  At the same time the bar for disproving this "truth" can be continually raised while vigorous speech against this "truth" can be criminalized.  Society's elites will in turn internalize this false "truth" while those who challenge it will be ostracized and seen as weird outsiders.  This is exactly how the West functions, why would they be any different?  We just have a different set of "truths" and are a bit more sophisticated about the whole thing.

Yep, that’s what they would do, in fact. But if the truth of a really big thing turns out to be false then god’s not speaking to you… or he’s lying to you (and then it’s not ‘god’ who’s doing the talking}. Here in the West our leaders, being only human, often lie, obfuscate, manipulate and betray their own causes… and god doesn’t come into it.


Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:27am:

Most people in the world are poor, ignorant, and stupid, so it doesn't look too good for your prediction. And by the way, which of these was Oliver Cromwell?

Many Iranians are no longer poor, ignorant and stupid and that’s a problem for the council of guardians.

Most of the world’s poor, ignorant and stupid don’t have access to a psychopathic theocrat.

Cromwell? Given what he did to the Irish, a murdering psychopath and may the kunt rot in his hell for it.

Wherever this ends, it now seems unlikely that Ahmadinejad can govern the country without massive military repression. A way out of this for the Mullah filth would be to order Ahmadinejad into exile, so they can 'legitimately' offer the Presidency to Mousavi. Another way would be for a strong mullah, like Rafsanjani to oust Khamenei. But hopefully the window of opportunity for machinations of that kind has passed.

helian - interesting indeed. This situation has a LONG way to go before it settles.
Given the continued protests and the peoples hubnger for their vote to be legitimate, I agree with you on    "unlikely that Ahmadinejad can govern the country without massive military repression."

international pressure won't make a spot of difference.
Ahmadinejad is as "considerate" as most muslims I chat to.
Speaking of, how come abu the paedophile praiser has not made a comment in here ??

I thnk people power will oust Ahmadinejad and bring a true democracy to iran and from there to the rest of the repressive islamic world.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 8:41am:

I thnk people power will oust Ahmadinejad and bring a true democracy to iran and from there to the rest of the repressive islamic world.

People power is nearing the point where it could move the hand of the Supreme Leader to either install Mousavi or hold re-elections.

True democracy in Iran will require the Islamic Republic to be overthrown and it's still a long road to that place.

Either way, support for the Islamic Republic and the mullahs' grip on power will be seen as massively weakened internally and externally... The cause of it's ultimate downfall has eaten into the facade.

A spot of bad luck for Ahmadinejad... And He likes his footy...

Iran players don protest colours

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 8:41am:

Speaking of, how come abu the paedophile praiser has not made a comment in here ??

Abu is not Shia and has expressed his contempt for the Iranian regime. Most Sunni Arab states would be happy to see the Persians taken down a peg or two.

Oh, they are the "wrong" sort of muslim !!!
Even though they use the same laws.


Appears the peaceful marches are having an effect.
(Peaceful from the protesters side)



Quote:

IRAN's opposition has stepped up its challenge to the Islamic regime by holding another rally even as the authorities cracked down hard on the media to try to contain the biggest crisis since the 1979 revolution. Tens of thousands of supporters of defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi took part in what was billed as a “silent” protest rally, marching through central Tehran. Wearing green wrist- and head-bands in the colour of Mr Mousavi's campaign, the demonstrators carried placards accusing re-elected President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of having “stolen” their votes in Friday's poll. Iranian state television broadcast brief footage of the rally. Grappling with the biggest wave of public anger in three decades of Islamic rule, Iran lashed out at enemy “plots”, hauling in foreign ambassadors and rounding up scores of reformists. The Iranian authorities threatened legal action against that publish material that “creates tensions” and issued a new warning to the foreign media, already facing tight restrictions on their work. The media watchdog Reporters Without Borders said a dozen Iranian journalists and bloggers have been arrested and many others have gone into hiding. Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khameini said he would consider a partial recount after the opposition held mass protests over what it charges was blatant rigging of the election that gave Mr Ahmadinejad another four-year term. In defiance of an official ban, Mr Mousavi himself called for marches and a day of mourning today for protesters slain in the post-election clashes. And he repeated his demand for the results of what he branded a “shameful fraud” to be annulled and a new vote called, in a statement on his movement's website. Late yesterday, he and former reformist president Mohammad Khatami issued a joint letter urging the Iranian authorities to release those arrested in recent days and end the violence against their supporters. “We ask you to take all the necessary measures to put an end to today's worrying situation, to stop the violent actions against people and to free those arrested,” said the letter, again published on his website. Addressed to judiciary chief Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi, it denounced violent actions and provocations against peaceful protestors and attacks against students and their halls of residence. At least seven people have been killed and many more wounded in clashes, with protests reported not only in Tehran but also other major cities after an election that has exposed deep divisions in the oil-rich nation. Mr Ahmadinejad remained defiant, saying his landslide victory in Friday's vote showed faith in his government of “honesty and service to the people.” Khamenei, who has the final say on all matters of state, said he was asking the Guardians Council, a 12-member body made up of jurists and clerics, to examine the complaints of irregularities. The council said it had invited Mr Ahmadinejad's three challengers to set out their grievances on Saturday.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25653860-601,00.html

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 9:43am:

Oh, they are the "wrong" sort of muslim !!! Even though they use the same laws.

Nothing in religion and politics is ever that simplistic.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 8:02am:

Yep, that’s what they would do, in fact. But if the truth of a really big thing turns out to be false then god’s not speaking to you… or he’s lying to you (and then it’s not ‘god’ who’s doing the talking}. Here in the West our leaders, being only human, often lie, obfuscate, manipulate and betray their own causes… and god doesn’t come into it.

It's irrelevant if the "truth" in question is false, what matters is which message is heard most often and whom transmits that message.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 8:02am:

Many Iranians are no longer poor, ignorant and stupid and that’s a problem for the council of guardians.

Iran is a Third World country, so it's poor, and their average IQ is in the 80s, so they're stupid too.  And if Iranians are like people everywhere else, most of them are likely ignorant.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 8:02am:

Cromwell? Given what he did to the Irish, a murdering psychopath and may the kunt rot in his hell for it.

It seems to me that has Irish policy was a success, and murder is hardly the same thing as refusing to give quarter to a city that refused to surrender.  He was neither psychopathic nor a murdered but a shrewd and effective leader.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 8:52am:

\ People power is nearing the point where it could move the hand of the Supreme Leader to either install Mousavi or hold re-elections. True democracy in Iran will require the Islamic Republic to be overthrown and it's still a long road to that place. Either way, support for the Islamic Republic and the mullahs' grip on power will be seen as massively weakened internally and externally... The cause of it's ultimate downfall has eaten into the facade.

Pre-election polling by Western agencies showed Ahmadinejad favored by a two to one margin, so don't bet on it.  If anything his election was closer than expected.  Let's not forget either that Mousavi is an ethnic Azeri in what remains a Persian empire.  I know that if I were a Persian I would refuse to ever be led by an Azeri.

At any rate you seem to have an unhealthy concern over Iran's internal affairs.  What concern is it of ours what system of government Iran has?

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 10:48am:

It's irrelevant if the "truth" in question is false, what matters is which message is heard most often and whom transmits that message.

It's relevant when you want the people to believe that god is on your side.


Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 10:48am:

At any rate you seem to have an unhealthy concern over Iran's internal affairs.  What concern is it of ours what system of government Iran has?

(Here we go, didn't take long, another Yank dropping in to tell us what it is.)

So what's a Yank doing dropping into an Aussie politics site?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:04am:

It's relevant when you want the people to believe that god is on your side.

The people hear only one message and believe they're damned if they don't obey it.  This is an advantage over secular theocracies in that most of these "truths" rest on faith that cannot be disproven.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:04am:

(Here we go, didn't take long, another Yank dropping in to tell us what it is.) So what's a Yank doing dropping into an Aussie politics site?

Not an argument, although I'll grant you that I veered into ad hominem territory myself.  At any rate I think people are getting overly worked up about Iran's form of government, not least in my own country where the news media seems to be obsessed with it.

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:12am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 11:04am: (Here we go, didn't take long, another Yank dropping in to tell us what it is.) So what's a Yank doing dropping into an Aussie politics site? Not an argument, although I'll grant you that I veered into ad hominem territory myself.  At any rate I think people are getting overly worked up about Iran's form of government, not least in my own country where the news media seems to be obsessed with it.

What's that about 'no man is an island'?

Maybe the fact that Iran appears to be attempting to develop a nuclear weapon makes it a concern to all what the bugger's going on inside Iran.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:21am:

Maybe the fact that Iran appears to be attempting to develop a nuclear weapon makes it a concern to all what the bugger's going on inside Iran.

I'm not sure that we need concern ourselves with whether or not they are a "real democracy" to deal with that issue.  My nation is a "real democracy" and has enough nuclear power to turn Iran, or any other country, into a sea of glass.  If we wish to prevent the development of nuclear weapons in Iran, and I agree that is in our strategic interest as oil consumers, then we can work on that directly.

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:27am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 11:21am: Maybe the fact that Iran appears to be attempting to develop a nuclear weapon makes it a concern to all what the bugger's going on inside Iran. I'm not sure that we need concern ourselves with whether or not they are a "real democracy" to deal with that issue.  My nation is a "real democracy" and has enough nuclear power to turn Iran, or any other country, into a sea of glass.  If we wish to prevent the development of nuclear weapons in Iran, and I agree that is in our strategic interest as oil consumers, then we can work on that directly.

Tell you what, you concern yourself with what interests you and I'll concern myself with what interests me... then you can leave out the royal we.

::)

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:27am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 11:21am: Maybe the fact that Iran appears to be attempting to develop a nuclear weapon makes it a concern to all what the bugger's going on inside Iran. I'm not sure that we need concern ourselves with whether or not they are a "real democracy" to deal with that issue.  My nation is a "real democracy" and has enough nuclear power to turn Iran, or any other country, into a sea of glass.  If we wish to prevent the development of nuclear weapons in Iran, and I agree that is in our strategic interest as oil consumers, then we can work on that directly.

That's great - don't care until it's time to nuke them. Brilliant.

Care about the issues that concern us (which differ somewhat between America and Australia of course) and work with them on those issues.  Ignore everything else.

And I'd rather nuke them than sit around wringing my hands over whether or not they're a "real democracy".

coral sea - good on you. I like americans.
                Stick around.

Soren wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:38am:

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 11:27am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 11:21am: Maybe the fact that Iran appears to be attempting to develop a nuclear weapon makes it a concern to all what the bugger's going on inside Iran. I'm not sure that we need concern ourselves with whether or not they are a "real democracy" to deal with that issue.  My nation is a "real democracy" and has enough nuclear power to turn Iran, or any other country, into a sea of glass.  If we wish to prevent the development of nuclear weapons in Iran, and I agree that is in our strategic interest as oil consumers, then we can work on that directly. That's great - don't care until it's time to nuke them. Brilliant.

How else would Yanks learn geography?  ;)

Exactly Helian.  Every generation a new generation of Americans needs to learn geography so then we need to go to war with a new nation.  ;D

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:41am:

And I'd rather nuke them than sit around wringing my hands over whether or not they're a "real democracy".

Course you would, you're a Yank.

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:43am:

Exactly Helian.  Every generation a new generation of Americans needs to learn geography so then we need to go to war with a new nation.  ;D

Laughing at you, not with you.

That doesn't follow.  I don't know if our terrible news programs make it to Australia, but they're obsessed with Iran's election and constantly babbling about hopeful signs of "progress".

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:45am:

That doesn't follow.  I don't know if our terrible news programs make it to Australia, but they're obsessed with Iran's election and constantly babbling about hopeful signs of "progress".

They'd be concerned Americans for whom 'no man is an island'.

Yanks are sitting around waiting to drop the bomb.

If anything those in our media obsessed with the election are the ones who want to bomb Iran, as they like to crow that Ahmadinejad's victory is proof that Iran is the new Nazi Germany (every tinpot enemy has to be compared to Hitler).

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 11:52am:

If anything those in our media obsessed with the election are the ones who want to bomb Iran, as they like to crow that Ahmadinejad's victory is proof that Iran is the new Nazi Germany (every tinpot enemy has to be compared to Hitler).

And if they're barracking for people power, what are they then?

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean by, "barracking for people power."  Could you please clarify?

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:07pm:

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean by, "barracking for people power."  Could you please clarify?

I think an American would phrase it... rooting for 'people power'

Can't use it in Australia, rooting means smacking.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:09pm:

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 12:07pm: I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean by, "barracking for people power."  Could you please clarify? I think an American would phrase it... rooting for 'people power'

I tend to see it as a sign of American arrogance that many here assume that Iranians secretly want the same kind of society we do.  A common American delusion is that everyone wants to be American.  Yes, people are protesting in the streets for Mousavi, but that doesn't mean he actually won.

I also don't see why Americans would concern themselves over what the Iranian people actually want.  It's not like this is a fellow Western nation.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:09pm:

Can't use it in Australia, rooting means smacking.

;)

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:13pm:

I also don't see why Americans would concern themselves over what the Iranian people actually want.  It's not like this is a fellow Western nation.

How about the dream of a fully democratic Iran that would hopefully then allow the US mission in Iraq to succeed?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:19pm:

How about the dream of a fully democratic Iran that would hopefully then allow the US mission in Iraq to succeed?

Why is the former important?

I'm also not quite sure what our mission in Iraq is...

What's your beef helian ??

by all accounts iran had a rigged election. democray does not exist there, though the people want it.

my vote goes for democracy, the american ideals are very good.
Very similar to aussie ones.

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:20pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 12:19pm: How about the dream of a fully democratic Iran that would hopefully then allow the US mission in Iraq to succeed? I'm also not quite sure what our mission in Iraq is...

Right now it would be to get the bugger out before the country collapses.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 12:28pm:

What's your beef helian ?? by all accounts iran had a rigged election. democray does not exist there, though the people want it. my vote goes for democracy, the american ideals are very good. Very similar to aussie ones.

Couldn't agree more.

And I'm also interested in what happens to Iran. I'm barracking for the collapse of the Islamic Republic and the advent of a fully democratic Iran.

Out of aces...

Smart move by Obama and the West to play this one down... Let the Mullahs' miscalculation drive them all over the cliff.


Quote:

As protesters continue to organise mass rallies on the streets of Tehran, the Iranian Government has criticised the West for meddling in its internal affairs. Ambassadors have been summoned to the Foreign Ministry in Tehran, where officials have complained about "impertinent comments" and "intolerable interference".

US told to stop meddling in Iran

Man, that's a really demeaning tone Iran has put on.

Who do they think the USA are , naughty kids ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 8:36pm:

Man, that's a really demeaning tone Iran has put on. Who do they think the USA are , naughty kids ?

Bit of a dilemma in a theocracy. If god's not on your side, then your troubles better be brought on by a great Satan, otherwise...

You're the Satan.

Iran is going to have another big earthquake soon, such is the will of allah.

tallowood wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 9:14pm:

Iran is going to have another big earthquake soon, such is the will of allah.

I bet the great 'defenders of the people' couldn't wish for anything better.

It'd be their sign from allah that they were right to cheat the nation.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 9:06pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:36pm: Man, that's a really demeaning tone Iran has put on. Who do they think the USA are , naughty kids ? Bit of a dilemma in a theocracy. If god's not on your side, then your troubles better be brought on by a great Satan, otherwise... You're the Satan.

Stop being a racist Islamophobe. You are just ignorant to the true message of peace being preached by Iran. Try to be more tolerant.

Calanen wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 10:49pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:06pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:36pm: Man, that's a really demeaning tone Iran has put on. Who do they think the USA are , naughty kids ? Bit of a dilemma in a theocracy. If god's not on your side, then your troubles better be brought on by a great Satan, otherwise... You're the Satan. Stop being a racist Islamophobe. You are just ignorant to the true message of peace being preached by Iran. Try to be more tolerant.

Evening, shortarse.

I'm liking Mousavi more and more.

Ahmadinejad's gone. he beongs to a bygone era. the error of islam.




Quote:

DETAILS emerged last night of the slaughter of students at Tehran University by suspected members of the Basij militia, as defiant opposition supporters held a new rally to mourn slain protesters. .At least three men and two women were killed in the attack on their dormitory on Sunday. The regime has attempted to cover up the killings - in which the students were believed to have been stabbed and bashed - but a public split by senior members of the regime triggered a rare confirmation. Dozens of academics from the university have resigned in outrage over the incident. The attack on the university followed the turnout of more than a million protesters that day over suspected vote-rigging in last Friday's election, which gave Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a second term as President. Unconfirmed reports said scores of people had been killed or seriously injured. At least 13 opposition supporters have been confirmed as killed since last weekend's demonstration. At least 200 are believed to have been detained without trial. Many more are missing. The media watchdog Reporters Without Borders said a dozen Iranian journalists and bloggers had been arrested and many others had gone into hiding. Despite the crackdown, tens of thousands of supporters of defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi took to the streets last night to mourn slain protesters and maintain pressure over the disputed election. Chanting "Peace be upon (the prophet) Mohammed and his family", the protesters, many dressed in black in a sign of mourning, marched in south Tehran and were expected to be joined by Mr Mousavi himself. One witness said protesters carried pictures of Mr Mousavi and placards saying, "We have not had people killed to compromise and accept a doctored ballot box" and "Silent, keep calm". Last night's rally followed a "silent" protest march on Wednesday involving thousands of people, many wearing green wrist- and head-bands in Mr Mousavi's campaign colours. State television broadcast brief footage of Wednesday's rally, which was staged despite an official ban on such gatherings. The foreign media are barred from covering such events. As clashes between demonstrators and police appeared to spread to cities other than Tehran, Mr Mousavi earlier told supporters: "A number of our countrymen were wounded or martyred. "I ask the people to express their solidarity with the families by coming together in mosques and taking part in peaceful demonstrations."......

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25658596-601,00.html

Something the mullahs may soon be forced to concede :

Their god, even if his existence is true, is not a theocrat.

If the protests continue, there will soon be only two ways this can be resolved... With the end of the regime or in rivers of blood.

Let's see if the mullahs love god more than they crave power.

helian - lets all hope and send our positive thoughts and prayers that the parliamentary power play is peacably panned out by public participation.

perhaps abu would partake in pursuing this progress?

"The mullahs" helian are split...  that is there is a schism in the ruling elite and Mousavi was backed by one part of that and not the other.

Mousavi sprint, was the terrorist behind the blowing up of the American Embassy in Lebanon and the American hostage situation in Iran.

Grendel wrote on Jun 19^th, 2009 at 9:33am:

"The mullahs" helian are split...  that is there is a schism in the ruling elite and Mousavi was backed by one part of that and not the other.

That's true, however when it comes to the survival of the regime, I'd say that they're decidedly less split.

When they see those protesters' signs "Death to the Dictator"... What could the mullahs interpret from that? To whom are they referring? Ahmadinejad or the Supreme Leadership? Who is the dictator or which the greater dictatorship?

grendel - if that's true about mousavi that'ld be quite disappointing

Well start being disappointed.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 19^th, 2009 at 9:47am:

grendel - if that's true about mousavi that'ld be quite disappointing

Why does that surprise you? A snake can't fart in Iran without the mullahs' sanction.

The question now is whether people power is greater than all of them.

grendel - ok, am disappointed now.
thanks for the info.
Though I did not like it, it seems to have more than a bit of truth to it.

bugger, darned ideological oppressive regimes.
They are SO hard to shake off.

hahahha, how do you count 40,000,000 votes within 2 hours ??




Quote:

................Instead the authorities acted as though they were stealing the vote - announcing a full count of 40 million ballots two hours after polls closed, with a suspicious uniformity in Mr Ahmadinejad's large majority across the country................. .............But even if the situation leads to a change of president, the West should not expect any immediate transformation of Iran. Mr Mousavi, an activist in the 1979 hostage-taking at the US embassy and later a prime minister as the regime liquidated its opposition, is part of the system and a declared supporter of nuclear capability. A long rapprochement lies ahead, but the youth of Iran's population and its growing use of new forms of communication will steadily undermine the likes of Mr Ahmadinejad........... ..

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/editorial/irans-ayatollahs-defeat-themselves-20090618-cls8.html

it IS an interesting election.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 19^th, 2009 at 11:10am:

hahahha, how do you count 40,000,000 votes within 2 hours ?? Quote: ................Instead the authorities acted as though they were stealing the vote - announcing a full count of 40 million ballots two hours after polls closed, with a suspicious uniformity in Mr Ahmadinejad's large majority across the country................. .............But even if the situation leads to a change of president, the West should not expect any immediate transformation of Iran. Mr Mousavi, an activist in the 1979 hostage-taking at the US embassy and later a prime minister as the regime liquidated its opposition, is part of the system and a declared supporter of nuclear capability. A long rapprochement lies ahead, but the youth of Iran's population and its growing use of new forms of communication will steadily undermine the likes of Mr Ahmadinejad........... .. it IS an interesting election.

And the hits just keep on coming.

the mainly muslim led human rights council at the UN have made NO comments on the muslim Ahmadinejad.

typical of muslims to do that.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 19^th, 2009 at 11:10am:

hahahha, how do you count 40,000,000 votes within 2 hours ??

Divine revelation?

Showdown at the OK Mosque.

Well, here we are... At the heart of the old Revolution itself. The big guy's gonna be there with his boys.

What's he gonna ask of the Mousavi gang?  'Yer either with us or yer agin us'.


Quote:

Khamenei is not inviting them to prayers to demonstrate their piety; he's demanding a symbolic show of loyalty to the Islamic Republic itself, and its founding principle of giving ultimate political authority to its clerical Supreme Leader.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1905703,00.html

If this doesn't wind down soon after this Friday, the die may be cast for hundreds of thousands of Iranians... The regime may consider them enemies of the Islamic Republic.

If that becomes true, then this to the new Iranian patriots from Thomas Paine...


Quote:

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated.

Good words helian.
there could well be a big price to pay for democracy in iran.
perhaps, a bigger price will be demanded later if it is not offered now.

There’s nothing like hubris to incur the wrath of nemesis.


Quote:

The country's Supreme Leader, Ayatullah Ali Khamenei, insisted there had been no fraud in [last Friday’s] election result, describing President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's election win as "definitive." He added that the "Islamic establishment would never manipulate votes and commit treason.

The Supreme Leader may have confirmed his own indictment and hopefully that of the regime’s as well.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1905703,00.html

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/19/2603527.htm?section=justin AYATOLLAH CALLS FOR CALM IN IRAN By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker and wires Posted Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:19pm AEST Updated Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:09pm AEST Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has urged Iranians to unite behind hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. In a sermon at Friday prayers, the Ayatollah sternly warned opposition supporters to stop their street protests against last week's election result. Tens of thousands of Iranians streamed into Tehran's University to hear the Ayatollah address the nation for the first time since last weeks disputed election. The country's Supreme Leader urged the nation to accept the result and unite behind Mr Ahmadinejad who was declared the election winner. Many in the crowd held posters of the Ayatollah and carried placards with anti-western slogans. Supporters of the defeated candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, have so far ignored calls for calm, holding daily rallies in defiance of an official ban. Iran's Guardian Council has agreed to meet the three defeated candidates tomorrow. Iran's Supreme Leader denied any possibility that the election had been rigged. "If there is any bloodshed, leaders of the protests will be held directly responsible," Ayatollah Khamenei declared. "The result of the election comes from the ballot box, not from the street. Today the Iranian nation needs calm." Foreign 'interference' He said any election complaints should be raised through legal channels. "I will not succumb to illegal innovation," he said. Mr Mousavi has called for annulment of the election result, which showed Mr Ahmadinejad the winner with nearly 63 per cent of the vote to 34 per cent for his closest challenger. The Ayatollah said the enemies of Iran, the world's fifth biggest oil exporter, were targeting the legitimacy of the Islamic establishment by disputing the outcome of the election.He attacked what he called interference by foreign powers which had questioned the result of the election. "American officials' remarks about human rights and limitations on people are not acceptable because they have no idea about human rights after what they have done in Afghanistan and Iraq and other parts of the world. We do not need advice on human rights from them," he said. Many European countries and international human rights organisations have criticised the election and its aftermath, but US President Barack Obama's administration has muted its comments to keep the door ajar for possible dialogue. Iranian state media have reported seven or eight people killed in protests since the election results were published on June 13. Scores of reformists have been arrested and authorities have cracked down on both foreign and domestic media. - ABC/Reuters

Doesn’t look good, especially highlighted bit, it looks like preparation for green light for the army.

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/20/2603667.htm?section=justin AYATOLLAH WARNS IRAN PROTESTERS OF CRACKDOWN By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker and wires Posted 5 hours 40 minutes ago Updated 5 hours 20 minutes ago Iran's supreme ruler, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has effectively banned all further protests against last week's presidential election results and has warned those who disobey will face serious consequences. Addressing a crowd of tens of thousands of worshippers at a mosque at Tehran University, he warned opposition supporters not to mount any more protests, even peaceful ones. He said if they did, they would be responsible for any bloodshed. "I want to tell everyone these things must finish. These street actions are being done to put pressure on leaders but we will not bow in front of them," he said. "Those politicians who somehow have influence on people should be very careful about their behaviour if they act in an extremist manner. "This extremism will reach a sensitive level which they will not be able to contain. They will be responsible for the blood, violence and chaos." He said terrorists who could assassinate the militia or the police might hide among the demonstrators. The warning effectively gives free rein to Iran's security forces, including the widely feared Basij militia, to take whatever action necessary against those protesters who disobey. In the wake of his speech, there were reports of truckloads of security forces heading onto Tehran's streets. The supreme ruler has also denied any chance the election was rigged and upheld President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as the rightful winner. "The people have chosen whom they wanted," he said. "I see some people more suitable for serving the country than others but the people made their choice," he said to cheers from tens of thousands of faithful, who included Mr Ahmadinejad. Iran's Guardian Council will soon meet all failed presidential candidates, but there is now no chance they will succeed in overturning the election result. After the sermon, US President Barack Obama warned Iran that the "world is watching" its actions. "I'm very concerned based on some of the tenor and tone of the statements that have been made that the government of Iran recognise that the world is watching," he said. "And how they approach and deal with people who are - through peaceful means - trying to be heard, will send a pretty clear signal to the international community about what Iran is and is not." Supporters of runner-up Mir Hossein Mousavi have held six days of protests since Mr Ahmadinejad was declared the winner of the Iranian election. State media have reported seven or eight people killed in the protests. Scores of reformists have been arrested and authorities have cracked down on foreign and domestic media. Hours after the Ayatollah's speech, another beaten candidate - pro-reform cleric Mehdi Karoubi - called for the election result to be cancelled, as Mr Mousavi has done previously. In another act of defiance after nightfall, Mr Mousavi's backers took to Tehran rooftops to shout Allahu Akbar (God is greatest), an echo of tactics in the 1979 Islamic revolution. - ABC/Reuters/AFP

Crackdown is ready to start

Happy wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:18pm:

Crackdown is ready to start

Es muss sein.


It must be.

The Iranians have witnessed just how far they can go with people power, the revolution showed them that.

The fact that so many are willing to put themselves on the front line of showing public dissent has the authorities, understandably worried.

Just how it plays out will be crucial for the aspirations of the ones hoping to see a more moderate regime for Iran.

Whether a firm, and bloody hand will be enough to suppress this tide of discontent will be played out over the coming days, and will be watched with interest by western powers hoping to see a regime change.

Khamenei's accusing Britain of instigating the Iranian crisis lays bare the truth behind the facade of the pious theocrat. Far from being a 'man of god', he is a manipulator and a liar who craves power more than he loves and fears his god. He values nothing of justice and honour, only repression and the opportunity to act on his psychopathic instincts to commit murder in the name of a deity.

Ayatollah, Calling Britain Enemy No. 1, Taps Into Deep Distrust Rooted in History

The tide of discontent is coming from the people of iran.

They had the (false) promise of a democratic election, so they could live their lives freely.
As do secular democracies.

islam is dying.

ROTFLMAO
ya think?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 3:21pm:

The tide of discontent is coming from the people of iran. They had the (false) promise of a democratic election, so they could live their lives freely. As do secular democracies. islam is dying.

There's certainly a tide of discontent rising in the Middle East against Islamism and Theocratic dictatorships.

As Christopher Hitchens commented this week :


Quote:

Most important of all, perhaps, Iranian-sponsored Hezbollah was convincingly and unexpectedly defeated last week in Lebanon after an open and vigorous election, the results of which were not challenged by any party. And, from all I hear, if the Palestinians were to vote again this year—as they were at one point supposed to do—it would be highly improbable that Hamas would emerge the victor. Yet somehow a senile and fanatical religious clique that has failed even to condition the vote in a country like Lebanon, where it has proxy and surrogate parties under arms, is able to reward itself by increasing its "majority" in a festeringly bankrupt state where it controls the media and enjoys a monopoly of violence.

http://www.slate.com/id/2220520/

Oh, this has suddenly jumped up a level.

the head islamic religous leader has said the head islamic dictator is ok.
And if others don't agree they might get murdered.

He's an idiot, he could well get rolled by people power.
What if 20,000 march tomorrow ?

your false dictatorship will be shown for what an injustice it is.
islam is buggered up the arse.

Now all depends on army, or special forces, or riot police that will be asked to kill.

Tienanman square comes to mind.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 7:27pm:

What if 20,000 march tomorrow ?

What if one million march tomorrow?

Quote:

"This is challenging democracy and election itself. I want every side to put an end to this method. If they don't then the responsibility of its consequences, the riots should be shouldered by those who do not put an end to it."

Typical of a psychopath... Blame the victims for their own murder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8110582.stm

here is iran's diplomacy.

People of iran, use people power and overthrow the oppresssive regime.
Be free like the west, vote and speak as you wish.
The "leaders" of iran are dictators, outmoded hundreds of years ago and empty puppets.
they don't have the peoples best wishes at heart, so don't have popular support.



Quote:

.............UK officials had summoned Iran's ambassador, Rasul Movaheddian, to the Foreign Office to lodge a protest. But they were told he was unavailable and Iran sent its charge d'affairs, a more junior official, in his place. The row was sparked by Ayatollah Khamenei saying the UK was the "most evil" of Western governments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8109303.stm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 21^st, 2009 at 2:54pm:

Quote: .............UK officials had summoned Iran's ambassador, Rasul Movaheddian, to the Foreign Office to lodge a protest. But they were told he was unavailable and Iran sent its charge d'affairs, a more junior official, in his place. The row was sparked by Ayatollah Khamenei saying the UK was the "most evil" of Western governments. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8109303.stm

Assuming the ambassador didn't call in sick that day, this is either an example of the Iranian Ambassador's sense of self respect that he refused to be associated with so blatant a lie (a reason in itself to call in sick) or further proof of the cringing cowardice of the mullahs, these great 'men of god', to shrink on the world stage from their own contemptible deceit.

Quote:

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of Iran, speaking at Tehran University, called the election an "absolute victory" and said that it would be hard to rig an 11 million difference in votes: "If the difference was 100,000 or 500,000 or 1 million, well, one may say fraud could have happened. But how can one rig 11 million votes?" And hinted that the protesters would suffer if they continued protesting the election results: "It must be determined at the ballot box what the people want and what they don't want, not in the streets," he said. "I call on all to put an end to this method. ... If they don't, they will be held responsible for the chaos and the consequences." And warned that the protests wouldn't make a difference: "Some may imagine that street action will create political leverage against the system and force the authorities to give in to threats. No, this is wrong," He also made a very important point that I've been making (and Obama also made) that Mousavi was an establishment candidate and therefore there would be no difference in policy from Ahmadinejad since it's the Supreme Leader and the Council that are in control of the country: He stressed that the four candidates were part of the country's Islamic system and reminded listeners that Mousavi was prime minister of Iran when Khamenei was president in the 1980s. "All of them belong to the system. It was a competition within the ruling system" And of course the people of Iran realize this but I suppose they wanted their voice to be heard and are upset that they are being ignored. I think it's probably good for them to be reminded that they only get what their leaders give them, their system isn't a true democracy (or anything close to it). Maybe this is what they need to push them to overthrow their oppressors (though, I doubt it).

http://blog.beliefnet.com/reformedchicksblabbing/2009/06/irans-supreme-leader-backs-ele.html




We're calling you bluff.
All of your arguments are classic fallacies.
Your promises are oppression and violence.
You have lost.


Muslims the world over are watching in fascination.
abu is silent.

I think the depth of the people's anger, not just with Ahmadinejad but also with the regime itself, has alarmed and probably overwhelmed even Mousavi. This is a nation with numerous internal problems not the least of which is a massive drug use crisis. Not unlike the old mullahs, the Islamic Republic is rotting from the inside out.

While the deaths of many may be a statistic, the murder of a young woman is the call to revolution.

Iran is beyond the point of no return.

Death of Neda

Quote:

.......A new analysis of voting figures in Iran's disputed presidential election found "irregularities" in the turnout and "highly implausible" swings to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Independent British think tank Chatham House found that in two conservative provinces, Mazandaran and Yazd, the turnout was more than 100 per cent -- a trend it said was "problematic", although admittedly not unprecedented in Iran. The analysis of interior ministry figures, published on Sunday, also found that overall there was a 50.9 per cent swing to Ahmadinejad, with official results suggesting he won the support of 47.5 per cent of those who had backed reformist candidates in the previous election in 2005. "This, more than any other result, is highly implausible and has been the subject of much debate in Iran," the study said............ .

http://www.smh.com.au/world/highly-implausible-swings-to-president-ahmadinejad-study-20090622-csr1.html

Re the candidates....  they are selected...  so you can only vote for those already accepted by the ayatollah anyway.

grendel - thanks for that I did not know that.

no wonder the population demand a change.
fancy being chained to a system that is oppressive AND archaic with no chance of chance of change.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2009 at 11:30am:

... no wonder the population demand a change. fancy being chained to a system that is oppressive AND archaic with no chance of chance of change.

Christian religion had some unacceptable this days treatment of disobedience, and they should and looks that some want to move forward.

Hope it is true, that could mean some changes to their supremacy aspirations.

Grendel wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2009 at 11:24am:

Re the candidates....  they are selected...  so you can only vote for those already accepted by the ayatollah anyway.

Yes, funny how political events, like a spring tide, can sweep a politician from his safe ground into uncharted water. Mousavi is no Walesa or Havel or even a Gorbachev... but he may yet have no choice.

Quote:

IRANIAN state radio says that 457 people were arrested in clashes between demonstrators and security forces in Tehran that took place late on Saturday.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25670736-12377,00.html


this probably won't endear the komeni to his people

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/22/2604982.htm?section=justin IRAN: VOICES FOR CHANGE By Alec Robinson … But here are some anecdotes straight from Tehran. Leyla is a 27-year-old engineer, living and working in Tehran. In October she showed that she was willing to flaunt the rules of the regime by trying to help me take photos of Iran's infamous Evin Prison. Evin is where many of the country's political prisoners are held and where the controversial hangings of homosexuals and criminals take place. In 2003 an Iranian-born Canadian photojournalist was beaten to death and raped for attempting to take a photo of this prison, so for a young Iranian woman to help me do the same is almost suicidal. Yesterday, she emailed EMAILS SUNDAY JUNE 21, 2009 Dear Alec I come home just now, I've seen battle of war with my eyes. Guards use crying gas and pepper gases, they attack to people with club, by shooting, by chain, [and] stone. . . They don't allow people gather together. They attack to women. I took some pictures and films, but unfortunately I can't attach them, I like to show u them. They disconnect everything, satellites, Internets, mobiles, sms, radios,. . . people call God every nights. Goodnight Leyla -Later: Yes, I'm safe but I'm not ok, they killed my countrymen without any indication, they don't give back their corpse to their families, last night about 150 persons was killed and wounded. They attacked people without any reason. I don't feel safe in this situation, I'm in low spirit. At first I was full of energy because I thought we can [get] our rights this time, but unfortunately this is not a good way, because people don't have any power in their hand except their life. My dear friend, what can we do in this situation? Today I passed from the Azadi st. where they killed people in it, The guards, Armies and Basij are standing every 30 centimetres. But what is important for us is that our government afraid a lot. One thing is very interesting they killed people in Azadi st. - that [Azadi] means liberty. I became hesitating for immigration from my country. I had decided to migrate from Iran to improve my life ... and living in free area without any force, but now I think we must stay in our country and preserve it. Leyla -Our reporter's name has been changed to protect the Iranians he met during his travels.

Quite ironic, she can end up in Australia or USA or G.Britain and get them here too.

have noticed the muslim controlled UN has not said a word.

Overthrow the komani and co.

Wait till its revealed how many billions have been fleeced from Iranians by the 'men of god' and Ahmadinejad.

This is so bad. Poor iranians, they have no way out that is easy.


Quote:

TEN days after certifying election results that have plunged Iran into the worst unrest since the 1979 Islamic revolution, the regime's electoral watchdog last night found fault with the results in one in seven districts. The meaningless concession from the regime came before the Republican Guard threatened to crush any further protests against the presidential poll with a "revolutionary and decisive riposte". .......

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25675441-601,00.html

the regime have admitted they cheated, but say there is nothing you can do. We will kill you.

the world is not a just place.

One would not be surprised if  Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and/or Ahmadinejad were assassainated by someone who had their loved one murdered in a march.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 9:14am:

One would not be surprised if  Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and/or Ahmadinejad were assassainated by someone who had their loved one murdered in a march.

When you speak to Iranians, you realise what a hell on earth the Islamic Republic has been for them. Some arrested daily usually by the (Palestinian) Basiji, (for crimes like wearing jeans or acting impiously) beaten and robbed by them, slashed with razors on the spot (that most Basiji carry), many murdered, family members disappear never to be seen again... Iran is as dangerous a place and as evil as anything that the Soviet Union was during the worst days of Stalin.

helian - I worked with a guy from iran some time agao.
he was fine, used to own a successful factory in iran.
The "authorities" came and beheaded his brother, he escaped.

I guess that is the story of any violent regime.


where is the "moderate" muslim world in the iran events?
conspicous by their silence.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 9:45am:

helian - I worked with a guy from iran some time agao. he was fine, used to own a successful factory in iran. The "authorities" came and beheaded his brother, he escaped. I guess that is the story of any violent regime. where is the "moderate" muslim world in the iran events? conspicous by their silence.

Where are they? They're the ones standing up, risking their lives, getting killed in Iran, proving to the world that they are worthy of our deepest respect for their refusal to be destroyed by the evil of theocratic Islamist filth.

helian - those silently protesting in iran do have my deepest respect.
VERY brave people.
The free world is fully supporting those who want democracy and fair government.



i meant the other islamic countries - saudi, turkey etc.
those that have no democracy or freedom of speech.

What sort of a regime murders young ladies who are peacefully marching.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 9:59am:

i meant the other islamic countries - saudi, turkey etc. those that have no democracy or freedom of speech. What sort of a regime murders young ladies who are peacefully marching.

I'd say that Turkey, which shares common history and culture with Iran, fears separatism more than it fears Islamism. The Kurdish separatists have demanded a homeland that stretches from Iraq, through Iran and into Turkey.

My guess is that were the Turks to get too lofty about the freedom of a people to determine who governs them and how, that this rhetoric may give heart to the Kurds who might just demand the same within Turkey... namely an independent Kurdistan.

The Middle East is no region for simplistic politics.

That's along my line of thinking too helian.
The islamic world is watching intently.
If iran gets rolled by people powerdemanding freedom and democracy, the whole stinking worldwide regime is under direct immedaite threat.


people want to kiss and hug in public, wear jeans, play whatever music they want, vote freely, drink beer, wear makeup, sunbathe, be able to criticise the establishment.


islams a gonner. good riddance.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 10:35am:

That's along my line of thinking too helian. The islamic world is watching intently. If iran gets rolled by people powerdemanding freedom and democracy, the whole stinking worldwide regime is under direct immedaite threat. people want to kiss and hug in public, wear jeans, play whatever music they want, vote freely, drink beer, wear makeup, sunbathe, be able to criticise the establishment. islams a gonner. good riddance.

Bear in mind that Turkey is no friend of Islamism.

And the disintegration of Iran and Turkey would not be in the interests of the region or the West.

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2605668.htm?section=justin UN CHIEF URGES IRAN TO HALT USE OF FORCE United Nations secretary-general Ban Ki-moon has urged an immediate stop to use of force against civilians in Iran and urged authorities to respect civil rights in dealing with protests over presidential election results. A statement issued by Mr Ban's press office said he was dismayed by the post-election violence, "particularly the use of force against civilians". Demonstrators have been gathering almost daily in Tehran since authorities said incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had easily defeated challenger Mir-Hossein Mousavi in the June 12 vote. Iranian television said 10 people were killed on Saturday and the hardline Revolutionary Guards vowed on Monday to crush resistance by "rioters". The UN statement says Mr Ban "calls on the authorities to respect fundamental civil and political rights, especially the freedom of expression, freedom of assembly and freedom of information". "He urges an immediate stop to the arrests, threats and use of force," it added. The statement also said Mr Ban called on the Iranian government and the opposition to resolve their differences peacefully through dialogue and legal means. The bulk of the statement made clear that Mr Ban, whose only previous statement on the crisis called for the will of the Iranian people to be fully respected, was directing his main criticism at the authorities. - Reuters

What happened, couldn’t that UN crowd delay their announcement for another couple of weeks or months?

hey Khamenei and Ahmadinejad , that young woman that your thugs murdered on your orders, who really killed her ?

And dozens like her?

How many have you murdered ?
Why are you still breathing?

there is the media crackdown, but I can feel a revolution coming.
You'll be strung up from lamposts then fed to pigs.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 9:45am:

where is the "moderate" muslim world in the iran events? conspicous by their silence.

"moderate muslim", .....is a contradiction in terms, it is an oxymoron.

Dictionary,
oxymoron = = a figure of speech or expressed idea in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.


A person can be a moslem, OR, they can be a 'moderate' [person].

But absolutely nothing about ISLAM, or a devout moslem, is 'moderate'.

According to the Koran, Mohammed was a 'typical' moslem, and nothing about that man's life was 'moderate' !






As to where all of the 'peace', and 'justice' loving moslems all are?.....

http://brandautopsy.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/see_hear_speak_1.jpg

In my last post, i said....


Yadda wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 2:51pm:

But absolutely nothing about ISLAM, or a devout moslem, is 'moderate'.

According to ISLAM and the Koran [Allah's very word], all of Ahmadinejad's rivals, the Tehran street protesters, may lawfully be slain, without mercy.





Instruction in the Koran, on how to treat those who stir up sedition among the people....


"Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.060
v. 60,61

so, the regime is just following the koran?


anythign to add, abu ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 3:36pm:

so, the regime is just following the koran? anythign to add, abu ?

Sure.       ;D


"Those Shia, are all apostates [i.e. not real moslems like me, and mine.], and they all deserve to die.

Ooooooopps, i really shouldn't have said that.

That was being a little too candid!!!"



Yadda, [abu's alter ego]           ;)

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606131.htm?section=justin BASIJ MILITIA 'TARGETING WOMEN' Female protesters on the streets of the Iranian capital Tehran are living in fear of being singled out for attack by members of the country's Basij militia, the ABC has been told. The Basij have been blamed for the deaths of a number of protesters in the recent riots, including a young woman known as Neda who was filmed dying in the street after being shot in the chest. A source inside Tehran has told the ABC that the Basij use their plain-clothes appearance to mingle with the protesters. "The main scary thing is the Basij. They are militants who are given batons and chains by the government," said the source, a 27-year-old engineer who wants to be known as Leyla. "They attack and beat the people, without any notice, and they attack the women. "The Basij are more scary than the army. They have no uniform and just wear normal clothes. So it's hard to tell who are the Basij and who are the protesters. That's why they are more dangerous." Overnight Iran's hardline Revolutionary Guards threatened to crack down on protesters if they act on calls to stage new rallies over the disputed presidential election. Protesters have largely been kept indoors since police and the Basij militia used live ammunition and tear gas against them on Saturday. But riot police again used tear gas to disperse about 1,000 protesters in a Tehran square on Monday. The new threat coincides with revelations that Iran's Guardian Council has admitted there were irregularities in the election count.

How long before “irregularities in the election count” hardliners will blame evil forces of USA and Europe?

Huh?
I though they were supposed to be the good guys.

Iran's Ayatollah has already blamed Britain for interference... for over a week now.

Quote:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=828756 'NO MAJOR FRAUD' IN IRAN'S POLL RESULT By Ali Akbar Dareini And Nasser Karimi Iran's top electoral body, the Guardian Council, found "no major fraud" in the disputed June 12 election and ruled out annulling the results, Iran's state TV on Tuesday quoted a spokesman for the council as saying. Opposition supporters, who allege systematic fraud, have demanded a new election and have staged near-daily protests challenging the claim that hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won re-election by a landslide. With Tuesday's announcement, Iran's regime appeared to be closing another door to compromise. Iran's supreme leader had already praised Ahmadinejad as the winner and ordered post-election protesters off the streets. On Monday, the feared Revolutionary Guard threatened a crackdown if protests persist. Such threats and the deaths of at least 17 people since the start of the protests have prompted growing concern by the international community about the fate of opposition supporters. In New York, UN Secretary Ban Ki-moon urged an "immediate stop to the arrests, threats and use of force". UN spokeswoman Michele Montas said on Monday. The announcement by the Guardian Council came a day after it said - in a rare acknowledgment - that there had been voting irregularities in 50 districts, including local vote counts that exceeded the number of eligible voters. However, the council said the discrepancies were not widespread enough to affect the result. The council agreed last week to investigate opposition complaints of problems in the voting. The council found "no major fraud or breach in the election," a spokesman, Abbas Ali Kadkhodaei, was quoted by Iran's state-run English language Press TV as saying. "Therefore, there is no possibility of an annulment taking place," he said. Ahmadinejad's main challenger, Mir Hossein Mousavi, has charged the election was a fraud and insists he is the true winner. In a sign of a growing crackdown, Tehran riot police fired tear gas and live bullets on Monday to break up about 200 protesters paying tribute to a young woman whose apparent shooting death was captured on video and circulated worldwide. A man identifying himself as the woman's boyfriend later said he had tried to dissuade her from attending the protests because of the risk, but that she told him she wanted democracy and freedom for the people of Iran. Severe restrictions on reporters have made it almost impossible to independently verify reports on demonstrations, clashes and casualties. Iran has ordered reporters for international news agencies to stay in their offices, barring them from reporting on the streets.

They make impression that a little bit of fraud is OK, bit twisted argument from my point of view.

we all notice there is NO news coming out of iran now ?
complete shutdown.

how islamic.
how mohammad
how abu.

Happy wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 6:19pm:

They make impression that a little bit of fraud is OK, bit twisted argument from my point of view.

Like all dictators, theocrats are not only addicted to power, they're literally fighting for their lives... If the regime collapsed, revelations of their gargantuan acts of corruption, fraud and theft alone would be enough to see them hanged.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 8:44pm:

we all notice there is NO news coming out of iran now ? complete shutdown.

I expect the next act of resistance will be strikes.

Quote:

CAIRO — Iran’s most powerful oversight council announced on Monday that the number of votes recorded in 50 cities exceeded the number of eligible voters there by three million, further tarnishing a presidential election that has set off the most sustained challenge to Iran’s leadership in 30 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/world/middleeast/23iran.html?_r=3&hp

I'm confident that once the mullahs discover the truth of the real genuine moderate benevolent Islam, the evidence of which is ALL around us, that everything will work out just fine. Perhaps someone here could tell them where to find it in their holy books - because surely you would know - you are always talking about its existence.

As for corruption of the Iranian regime, I saw somewhere that about 1/3 of the country's revenue is stolen. That's a lot of money for someone, or many people.

just heard this mornings news.

human rights think possibly 150 iranians may have been murdered by their leaders.

This is not good.

The 'men of god' have imposed life bans on members of the Iranian soccer team who wore those green wristbands. The Achilles heel of theocrats, like all dictators, will always be their blatant stupidity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/23/iran-football-protest-ban

I completely with you on this one helian.
Their violent actions are disgusting

though I am not keen on soccer - good on the guys there.


where will this end .


Quote:

........His comments came on a day when Tehran tightened its grip on power and the West hardened its stance: * The highest legislative body in Iran, the Guardian Council, ruled out a rerun of the election and parliament set a date for the inauguration of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad; * The regime arrested Alireza Beheshti Shirazi, one of the closest aides of Mir Hossein Mousavi, who ran his newspaper and website; * Britain expelled two Iranian diplomats after Tehran ordered two British diplomats out of Iran on Monday; * Iranian envoys in at least five European capitals were summoned to be told that the oppression of peaceful demonstrators was unacceptable. ........... .

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25682638-601,00.html

This outcome was predictable just as triumph of radical islamic violence over moderate Iranians.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 24^th, 2009 at 9:44am:

I completely with you on this one helian. Their violent actions are disgusting though I am not keen on soccer - good on the guys there. where will this end .

Yes, any Iranian soccer fans who were at the edge of support for Ahmadinejad may just have crossed over to the opposition.

Only question is will this be bottled for another 20 or 30 years?

i don't think so.



Quote:

.................In this strange civil war, internet cafes have become the command-and-control centres of the opposition. A man who had been sitting opposite me in a booth called me over - he gave me headphones and wanted me to watch and hear the 26-year-old music student dying during Saturday's protest in Tehran. Then he showed me others. Then someone else in the cafe beckoned me to their terminal. They had photos they wanted me to see. We're all sitting at our computers in a suburb of Tehran, looking at the latest pictures from the city's killing fields. This is an unofficial opposition cafe. People speak relatively freely here. The moment they realised I was a foreigner they began showing me pictures. Any connection to the outside world is seen as vital. Each day people sit downloading from their mobile phones. The man who showed me the Neda video had had a friend killed the day before. He wasn't there when it happened but says his friend was shot in the head. He took 30 seconds to die. Another man in the cafe says 30 people were killed in Saturday's protest, not the 10 the government is admitting to. They say people are being killed all around the country. A woman in another booth calls me to her computer. On her screen is a picture of a young man lying on a slab. His eyes are covered with little white patches, but on his left side - where his heart must have beaten - he has a huge gash which could have been made by a machete. She shows me two other photos - one is of a militiaman caught with a huge knife in his hand. The other is of a riot policeman smashing the front windscreen of a car. The second photograph is crucial - it shows what many Iranians have been saying for a week: that the police and militia are causing much of the damage around Tehran that is being shown on official TV to create hostility towards the protesters. One of the most sophisticated cities in the world has become a place of slaughter. It also shows how this strange civil war is being waged - bloodshed in the streets, crackdowns by a regime with all the weapons, then next day young people head to the computers to try to send pictures of the brutality as far and wide as possible. What is happening in Iran at the moment is an uprising by the internet generation. They live in Iran but their minds and imaginations travel each day on the web. In my two weeks here, I've found a clear pattern - those who use the internet support the uprising. I have not yet found one exception to that rule. Those opposed to the uprising tend to be older people; religious conservatives for whom the unrest is a Western-inspired revolt against their Islamic state or they believe President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has helped poor people in country areas. In the short term, the regime will probably be able to crush the uprising. This is, after all, a civil war in which only one side has weapons. But, in the long term, unless the ayatollahs find a way of silencing global communication, they have a serious problem on their hands. ..

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25682399-601,00.html


I see it a bit differently.
The iranians through the net know that westerners are not animals.
iranians want freedom.
they will get it.


And the only way to get liberty off people like this .....

Quote:

The EU governments' new tough talk will not change the outcome in Iran. That will depend on how much the followers of Mir Hossein Mousavi are prepared to risk, whether they can carry many in the military with them (so far not) and how much violence the regime is prepared to use to put down the uproar. A lot, we should assume. The bloodiness of the 1979 revolution is one indication. So, explicitly, are the warnings by Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei that he would hold Mousavi and others responsible for deaths and injuries by the security forces. But in making its calculations the regime cannot ignore the international opprobrium and penalties that would follow a brutal crackdown - that is, one even worse than there has been already. Yesterday Italy said it was willing to open its embassy in Tehran to wounded protesters, along with other European nations. Italy and Germany are Iran's biggest EU trading partners. Italy's move follows Sweden's question to other European Union countries as to whether they might jointly open their embassies to demonstrators - a discussion that has not yet gone far but sends a signal to Tehran about the strength of feeling across the EU.

is to take your own freedom forcibly.
the free world is behind you iranians.
overwhelm the phuckers and take what is yours.
they WON'T give it to you.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2009 at 9:27pm:

Happy wrote on Jun 23rd, 2009 at 6:19pm: They make impression that a little bit of fraud is OK, bit twisted argument from my point of view. Like all dictators, theocrats are not only addicted to power, they're literally fighting for their lives... If the regime collapsed, revelations of their gargantuan acts of corruption, fraud and theft alone would be enough to see them hanged.

Iran is the living example of what the ummah would look like. It would be run by men who think they are dong god's work and so they brutally oppose any checks and balances on themselves. Corruption and disgrace soon follows and if people want things done better, then killing and bloody repression kick in.

It happened when the last ummah collapsed. As a matter of fact, it happened every time the ummah collapsed because the ummah is nothing but a dictatorship that happens to be by imams.

Ummah, ummah, stick it up your jumpah, as my scouser friends would say.

Soren wrote on Jun 24^th, 2009 at 8:25pm:

Ummah, ummah, stick it up your jumpah, as my scouser friends would say.

oompah, oompah, stick it up your jumper...
I am the egg man,
they are the egg men,
I am the walrus,
goo goo g'joob.

It’s impossible not to feel sympathy for the Iranian people, suffering not only now under what is effectively Stalinist repression and brutality, but also for the abuse they have endured for the 70 years prior to the Islamic Revolution.

The British government’s defrauding the Iranian people of oil revenue for 50 years before the democratic election of the Mossaseq Government, followed by their conspiracy with the CIA to overthrow Mossadeq and then 25 years of enduring the despotic Shah, totals over a century of trauma for Iranians.

For the West, the aftermath of this meddling has resulted in arguably the worst example of blowback in the history of foreign intervention, sowing the seeds of militant Islamism throughout the Middle East.

Oil, democracy and a CIA coup

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 7:26am:

It’s impossible not to feel sympathy for the Iranian people, suffering not only now under what is effectively Stalinist repression and brutality, but also for the abuse they have endured for the 70 years prior to the Islamic Revolution. The British government’s defrauding the Iranian people of oil revenue for 50 years before the democratic election of the Mossaseq Government, followed by their conspiracy with the CIA to overthrow Mossadeq and then 25 years of enduring the despotic Shah, totals over a century of trauma for Iranians. For the West, the aftermath of this meddling has resulted in arguably the worst example of blowback in the history of foreign intervention, sowing the seeds of militant Islamism throughout the Middle East. Oil, democracy and a CIA coup

helian,

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, for it tolls for thee."



helian,

Tea, and sympathy for the Iranian ppl?

I am sure that they really appreciate that helian.

Are you ready to confront moslems [in Australia], with those lies of ISLAM yet?

....i.e. "ISLAM is peace."




If not, perhaps you could just give us some more platitudes, expressing your solidarity with the Iranian people in their time of trouble.




If you want peace, seek and support free and open TRUTH.






Quote:

Free and open TRUTH, gets, establishes, justice. And peace will come to abide, alongside justice [i.e. where justice is established]. Want PEACE? Seek and support free and open TRUTH. Like i said, it isn't rocket science.

at....
"Churches oppose Islamic school"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1240363717/23#23
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1240363717/25#25

Yes, we the West was not so concerned for the Iranian peoples freedoms and rights in the past which ironically opened the door to Nationalistic religious fanatics to gain power.

It would certainly be refreshing if the West would try to make it right, however unlikely.

Yadda wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 11:51am:

helian, "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, for it tolls for thee." helian, Tea, and sympathy for the Iranian ppl? I am sure that they really appreciate that helian. Are you ready to confront moslems [in Australia], with those lies of ISLAM yet? ....i.e. "ISLAM is peace." If not, perhaps you could just give us some more platitudes, expressing your solidarity with the Iranian people in their time of trouble. If you want peace, seek and support free and open TRUTH. Free and open TRUTH, gets, establishes, justice. And peace will come to abide, alongside justice [i.e. where justice is established]. Want PEACE? Seek and support free and open TRUTH. Like i said, it isn't rocket science.[/size][/i]

De bats dey restless in de attic today.  :D

Yadda wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 11:51am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 7:26am: It’s impossible not to feel sympathy for the Iranian people, suffering not only now under what is effectively Stalinist repression and brutality, but also for the abuse they have endured for the 70 years prior to the Islamic Revolution. The British government’s defrauding the Iranian people of oil revenue for 50 years before the democratic election of the Mossaseq Government, followed by their conspiracy with the CIA to overthrow Mossadeq and then 25 years of enduring the despotic Shah, totals over a century of trauma for Iranians. For the West, the aftermath of this meddling has resulted in arguably the worst example of blowback in the history of foreign intervention, sowing the seeds of militant Islamism throughout the Middle East. Oil, democracy and a CIA coup helian, "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, for it tolls for thee." helian, Tea, and sympathy for the Iranian ppl? I am sure that they really appreciate that helian. Are you ready to confront moslems [in Australia], with those lies of ISLAM yet? ....i.e. "ISLAM is peace." If not, perhaps you could just give us some more platitudes, expressing your solidarity with the Iranian people in their time of trouble. If you want peace, seek and support free and open TRUTH. Quote: Free and open TRUTH, gets, establishes, justice. And peace will come to abide, alongside justice [i.e. where justice is established]. Want PEACE? Seek and support free and open TRUTH. Like i said, it isn't rocket science. at.... "Churches oppose Islamic school" http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1240363717/23#23 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1240363717/25#25

I can't remember. Did the Good Samaritan ask the politics of the person that needed help or did he just simply try to correct a wrong.

We are not talking about supplying them with explosives and tickets to the West. Helian is expressing a feeling based on reading about the history of abuse for a nation and it's people, it's children.

locutius wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 11:53am:

Yes, we the West was not so concerned for the Iranian peoples freedoms and rights in the past which ironically opened the door to Nationalistic religious fanatics to gain power. It would certainly be refreshing if the West would try to make it right, however unlikely.

Yeah it's always our fault.

Calanen wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:16pm:

locutius wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:53am: Yes, we the West was not so concerned for the Iranian peoples freedoms and rights in the past which ironically opened the door to Nationalistic religious fanatics to gain power. It would certainly be refreshing if the West would try to make it right, however unlikely. Yeah it's always our fault.

Malignant self pity.

How about we just stay out of it? How's that for a radical idea? I don't care what Iran does or says, unless they get a nuclear weapon.

The rest of it is not important. No one ever thanks us for getting involved, so, let's save our money and our breathe, and let the Mullahs have another Tianneman x 100 or so while they machine gun their own citizens.

Iran's mullahs are the face of Islam in power. What a fun place to live.

locutius wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:10pm:

I can't remember. Did the Good Samaritan ask the politics of the person that needed help or did he just simply try to correct a wrong. We are not talking about supplying them with explosives and tickets to the West. Helian is expressing a feeling based on reading about the history of abuse for a nation and it's people, it's children.

locutius,

Yes, we must keep denying the TRUTH, we must keep averting our eyes.

We wouldn't want to 'offend' anyone would we, with the TRUTH.

Whatever we do, we should not confront the real problem.
/sarc off



Lies, deception, and violence.

If we just ignore them, they will go away.
/sarc off



The political 'leadership' of the Western World, today...
http://guestcommentaryjdpkillercase.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/head-in-the-sand2.jpg

"We hate TRUTH. Don't show it to us!!
.....Things are fine, just the way they are."i

Quote:

helian, Yes. Once again, avert your eyes! Look the other way. Don't confront the problem. The problem which is.... ....ISLAM, and its SANCTIFIED doctrines of lies, deception, and violence [towards all things 'un-ISLAMIC'].

at...
"Multiculti death of Australian National Identity"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1244629294/19#19

Calanen wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:26pm:

How about we just stay out of it? How's that for a radical idea? I don't care what Iran does or says, unless they get a nuclear weapon. The rest of it is not important. No one ever thanks us for getting involved, so, let's save our money and our breathe, and let the Mullahs have another Tianneman x 100 or so while they machine gun their own citizens. Iran's mullahs are the face of Islam in power. What a fun place to live.

Would have been a great idea a long time ago... Now its not possible... The Iranian regime is determined to export its anti-Western (particularly anti-British and anti-American) hostility... It no doubt intends to extend a Shia hegemony stretching from Saudi Arabia, through Iraq and Iran... And is determined to destroy Israel. They intend to use the nuclear weapons to achieve their (Shia) Islamist agenda and are not concerned about triggering a nuclear arms race across the Middle East as nervous Arab nations rush to match potential Persian dominance in the region.

It doesn't matter now how it got started... But it matters how it ends. We can't stay out of it now even if we wanted to... Which, of course we do.

Are you changing tune helian?  ;D

helian - mostly true.
Ahmadinejad is bent on getting nukes.
he does not negotiate or give a hoot about world opinion.

the political shootings is an internal affair, so we should not get involved.
nukes is a concern for us.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:34pm:

Would have been a great idea a long time ago... Now its not possible... The Iranian regime is determined to export its anti-Western (particularly anti-British and anti-American) hostility... It no doubt intends to extend a Shia hegemony stretching from Saudi Arabia, through Iraq and Iran... And is determined to destroy Israel. They intend to use the nuclear weapons to achieve their (Shia) Islamist agenda and are not concerned about triggering a nuclear arms race across the Middle East as nervous Arab nations rush to match potential Persian dominance in the region. It doesn't matter now how it got started... But it matters how it ends. We can't stay out of it now even if we wanted to... Which, of course we do.

"It doesn't matter now how it got started."

Yadda translates....

"It doesn't matter what causes a problem. Causes of problems are unimportant. We need only respond to effects."

http://guestcommentaryjdpkillercase.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/head-in-the-sand2.jpg






Of course it matters now how it got started!

'Origins' of things, are always important.




Be shocked, and outraged.

see the reader reviews at Amazon, of,

Sleeping With the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude (Hardcover)
by Robert Baer
According to Robert Baer, the center of the global economy is a "kingdom built on thievery, one that nurtures terrorism, destroys any possibility of a middle class based on property rights, and promotes slavery and prostitution." This kingdom also sits on one quarter of the world's oil reserves, thus ensuring that it receives the full support and protection of the U.S. government. Sleeping With the Devil details the hypocritical and corrupt relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia and the potentially calamitous economic consequences of maintaining this Faustian bargain.
http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400050219/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top




The 'Sleeping With the Devil' book, relates to the relationship the West, and particularly the USA has had with the Saudis, but the same error is repeated, by all Western leaders, and by all Western democracies, when dealing with M.E. regimes dominated by ISLAMIC influences.

The West [particularly its leaders, are] is corrupt.

The West deserves to 'fall into a pit', and we will.






Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
....
18  And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Quote:

SATURDAY/SUNDAY Reports reaching us from islamic iran now indicate a wave of arrests has taken place creating a very "pregnant" situation where anything can still happen, though the arrests have taken out opposition leadership: 1. Former President Hashem Rafsanjani has been arrested and taken to be held at the house of Supreme Ruler Ali Khamenei, where he was forced to resign as the head of the Expediency Council and Council of Experts. He is being held there until further notice to be at the pleasure of the Supreme Ruler. Rafsanjani not only spent money to oppose Ahmadi-Nejad's re-"selection" but also made a big mistake of threatening the Supreme Ruler with the fact that the councils headed by Rafsanjani were the ones who had to declare the eligibility of the Supreme Ruler and could remove him from office with a quick vote. He is not expected to emerge alive from his detention.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2271437/posts

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 1:03pm:

helian - mostly true. Ahmadinejad is bent on getting nukes. he does not negotiate or give a hoot about world opinion. the political shootings is an internal affair, so we should not get involved. nukes is a concern for us.

It would not be possible to interfere militarily in Iran's internal affairs without the regime playing the 'foreign interference' card and succeeding in galvanising the country against a perceived invader... So that's off the table... However, an internal affair of the magnitude of the recent demonstrations indicates that the political system may soon become more unstable. Putting sustained pressure on the Iranian regime through diplomatic means is an option that the West will need to consider to hinder an acceleration in developing nuclear weapons.

Yadda wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:00pm:

"It doesn't matter now how it got started." Yadda translates.... "It doesn't matter what causes a problem. Causes of problems are unimportant. We need only respond to effects." http://guestcommentaryjdpkillercase.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/head-in-the-sand2.jpg Of course it matters now how it got started! 'Origins' of things, are always important.

The Islamic Revolution was fuelled by resentment to British and US military interference in the country and their military support for the Shah. Should we sit around blaming the British and the US or deal with the threat of a belligerent Islamist rogue state?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:32pm:

The Islamic Revolution was fuelled by resentment to British and US military interference in the country and their military support for the Shah. Should we sit around blaming the British and the US or deal with the threat of a belligerent Islamist rogue state?

Mankind is destined to keep making the same mistakes, again and again and again.

Why?

Because we hate TRUTH, when it doesn't coincide with our own expectations, and preconceived hopes.iMatthew 16:2
He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3  And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/25/2607797.htm?section=justin 'BLOOD EVERYWHERE' IN FRESH IRAN CRACKDOWN By Middle East correspondent There are reports of another brutal crackdown in Iran, with websites, internet bloggers and eyewitnesses all talking of a bloodbath in Tehran. The reports suggest thousands of police and pro-government militia have used firearms, clubs and teargas to suppress another opposition rally. There is even one account of a nine-year-old girl being shot. Iran's ongoing ban on all foreign media makes it impossible to verify many of the accounts but amateur videos posted last night on YouTube appear to show there were fierce clashes between supporters of Iran's opposition and the security forces. Hundreds of protesters had headed to Tehran's Baharestan Square for another street rally against Iran's presidential election result. The first reports of what went on there have been broadcast on CNN and Al Jazeera television. One eyewitness reported riot police beating people, "even police beating women". Internet accounts too give a chilling picture of the extent of the violence. It is impossible to verify every entry on the microblogging site Twitter. But some of the tweeters who have shown themselves to be reliable - including foreign reporters with good contacts in Tehran - have posted the following messages in the past 12 hours. "Lots of reports of heavy gunfire and clashes in Baharestan. One guy is calling it a massacre," one says. "We heard the women are being beaten so badly they have to amputate their limbs," another says. "We saw militia with axe chopping people like meat - blood everywhere - like butcher." 'ACTS OF TERROR' And there was this: "The most disturbing are reports of a nine-year-old girl being shot @ Baharestan and the basij [militia] won't let people near her to help." The website of Iran's main opposition candidate, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, gives some weight to the other accounts. "Many people have been beaten and injured at the protests across Tehran today," the website says. "At Baharestan the police were waiting inside local mosques for the protesters to arrive. At this point many would consider the actions of the basij and police as acts of terror. "This is amazing that even in the year 2009 such primitive policing still exists." Much of the protesters' anger has been directed at Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who they describe as a dictator. But earlier in the day he too appeared in the media on a government-backed TV station to declare Iran would not bow to the opposition demands for a new election. "I insist on enforcing the rule of law," the Ayatollah said. "We will only accept the law of the Islamic Republic. Surely our system and our people will not yield to pressure." And through all this, the man at the centre of the crisis, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has shown no hint of awareness or care about the protests against him. Iranian television showed him hosting a bilateral delegation from Belarus, smiling and chatting as if there had never been any election at all.

As long as government powers don't support protesters, it will be lost cause as I cannot see UN stepping in and US won't.

Happy wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 3:09pm:

As long as government powers don't support protesters, it will be lost cause as I cannot see UN stepping in and US won't.

The solution can only be through a split within the Iranian military, either the army or the revolutionary guards.

The split within the ranks of the guards seems highly unlikely as they are sworn to defend the regime, so while the army continues to remain loyal to the supreme leader, it's going to be a tough time for the Iranian people. One thing's for sure though, the regime will never again  be able to state or imply that they have the confidence of the people to the world. The regime will now be seen as illegitimate both inside Iran and internationally.

Happy wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 3:09pm:

Quote: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/25/2607797.htm?section=justin 'BLOOD EVERYWHERE' IN FRESH IRAN CRACKDOWN By Middle East correspondent There are reports of another brutal crackdown in Iran, with websites, internet bloggers and eyewitnesses all talking of a bloodbath in Tehran. The reports suggest thousands of police and pro-government militia have used firearms, clubs and teargas to suppress another opposition rally. There is even one account of a nine-year-old girl being shot. Iran's ongoing ban on all foreign media makes it impossible to verify many of the accounts but amateur videos posted last night on YouTube appear to show there were fierce clashes between supporters of Iran's opposition and the security forces. Hundreds of protesters had headed to Tehran's Baharestan Square for another street rally against Iran's presidential election result. The first reports of what went on there have been broadcast on CNN and Al Jazeera television. One eyewitness reported riot police beating people, "even police beating women". Internet accounts too give a chilling picture of the extent of the violence. It is impossible to verify every entry on the microblogging site Twitter. But some of the tweeters who have shown themselves to be reliable - including foreign reporters with good contacts in Tehran - have posted the following messages in the past 12 hours. "Lots of reports of heavy gunfire and clashes in Baharestan. One guy is calling it a massacre," one says. "We heard the women are being beaten so badly they have to amputate their limbs," another says. "We saw militia with axe chopping people like meat - blood everywhere - like butcher." 'ACTS OF TERROR' And there was this: "The most disturbing are reports of a nine-year-old girl being shot @ Baharestan and the basij [militia] won't let people near her to help." The website of Iran's main opposition candidate, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, gives some weight to the other accounts. "Many people have been beaten and injured at the protests across Tehran today," the website says. "At Baharestan the police were waiting inside local mosques for the protesters to arrive. At this point many would consider the actions of the basij and police as acts of terror. "This is amazing that even in the year 2009 such primitive policing still exists." Much of the protesters' anger has been directed at Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who they describe as a dictator. But earlier in the day he too appeared in the media on a government-backed TV station to declare Iran would not bow to the opposition demands for a new election. "I insist on enforcing the rule of law," the Ayatollah said. "We will only accept the law of the Islamic Republic. Surely our system and our people will not yield to pressure." And through all this, the man at the centre of the crisis, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has shown no hint of awareness or care about the protests against him. Iranian television showed him hosting a bilateral delegation from Belarus, smiling and chatting as if there had never been any election at all. As long as government powers don't support protesters, it will be lost cause as I cannot see UN stepping in and US won't.

These actions by an ISLAMIC regime, are all perfectly 'justifiable' within ISLAM...


Here, instruction in the Koran, on how to treat those who stir up sedition among the people [against ISLAMIC authority]....


"Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.060
v. 60,61



PLEASE CONSIDER, this form of unaccountable government [example Iran, or Saudi Arabia], is what all real moslems in Australia, are working for, and towards.

Please don't give 'Australian' moslem denials any credence.

The Hadith...

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.196

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/25/2608700.htm?section=justin IRANIAN AUTHORITIES ARREST PROTEST 'MASTERMINDS' By Meredith Griffiths for The World Today Eyewitnesses in Iran say security forces there have used batons and tear gas to break up the latest protests by about 200 people in the capital Teheran. But Iran's Revolutionary Guard says it has arrested what it is calling the "masterminds" of the unrest and says it has proof they are linked to European countries and to Israel. There have been fewer protesters on the streets since Saturday's violent crackdown, but it appears that neither the Opposition nor the Government will back down on their dispute over the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Foreign journalists could not attend the latest protest in Tehran but one woman told CNN what happened when she tried to go to a central square to demand freedom and show her opposition to the recent violence. "All of a sudden some 500 people with clubs and wood, they came out of [the] mosque and they poured into the streets and they started beating everyone," the woman said. She says she did not see anybody killed but the security forces were attacking people brutally. "They beat a woman so savagely that she was drenched in blood and her husband who was watching the scene he just fainted. I also saw people shooting, I mean the security forces shooting people and of course people were brave. They booed the security forces but they were beating people like, help, this was a massacre. They were trying to beat people so that they would die," she said. Iran's state-run English language channel reported that people had gathered in front of the Parliament to protest the results of the election. On another state-run broadcaster a commander of the Revolutionary Guards, Ali Fazli, said his forces had arrested the people behind the upheaval. "The masterminds of this sedition, who were captured in team-houses and documents discovered, show their link with beyond these borders and their Western, European and Zionist backers," he said. It is unclear how many people have been arrested. CONDEMNATION As the protests continue the United States is sending stronger signs of its growing concern over the unrest on the streets of Tehran. Last month US embassies and consulates around the world had been told to invite Iranian government representatives to their Independence Day celebrations as a way of opening up relations between the two countries, but White House spokesman Robert Gibbs says the invitations no longer stand. "Not surprisingly based on what we've seen going on in Tehran nobody has RSVPed. Given the events of the past many days those invitations will no longer be extended," he said. The move follows comments by President Barack Obama yesterday, where he sharpened his rhetoric about the situation in Iran, saying he was appalled and outraged by the crackdown on the protesters. Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has also condemned the crackdown against protesters in Iran. He has called on Iran to stop the violence against protesters and release those who have been detained for speaking out. Mr Rudd says Australia will keep urging Iran to allow media freedom and to review the election result thoroughly so that the will of the people can be seen to be expressed. "It can take a responsible path and take concrete steps to engage with the international community or Iran can continue down its current path which will only lead to further international isolation," he said. "I believe I speak on behalf of all members in this place when we condemn the repression of human rights in Iran and this appalling travesty of democracy unfolding before our eyes. "Mr Speaker, the Australian Government deplores the brutality, the repression and the violence against peaceful protesters. There are clear doubts about the election process and result."

Yep, it is official "it is other countries fault", there would be no protest without "them".

Happy wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 5:36pm:

Yep, it is official "it is other countries fault", there would be no protest without "them".

It was always foreign interference according to the regime. They play on the history of the CIA strategy of Operation Ajax (to overthrow Mossadeq) headed by Kermit Roosevelt inside Iran. It's not true this time, but every Iranian knows the old story...


Quote:

One of the things that [Roosevelt] did, perhaps this was his most masterful idea, he went to the Tehran bazaar, where there was a group of thugs operating under a very colourful leader named Shabaan the Brainless. And he hired Shabaan, who actually is still alive, living in California, and Shabaan's job was: get together the biggest group of thugs and gangsters you can find. We're going to pay every one of them. Find every adult male who wants to be a gangster for a day, and hire them. And what your job is, (and this is exactly what this gang did for several days in Tehran) run through the streets wildly, smash shop windows, fire guns into mosques and then shout, 'We love Communism and Mossadeq'. So he created this mob that was very violent, that was posing as thugs for Mossadeq. But that wasn't all. Roosevelt went one step further: he hired another mob to attack that mob, the idea being he wanted to create the image, in the minds of ordinary Iranians, that Iran was in chaos. They organised a crowd. It marched from southern Tehran up into the central area of the city. Gradually other Iranians joined these crowds, and at the same time certain military units that were supporting the coup took certain steps. They went and attacked Mossadeq's home and had a long military battle with loyalist forces there; they seized a radio station, seized certain key intersections and places like that. And eventually, during the course of the day, both with the crowds in the streets and the military units, the coup forces managed to prevail. Mossadeq was forced to flee out of his house, he hid for a day or two and eventually gave himself up, and the pro-Mossadeq forces were just overwhelmed. and by the end of the day, on the 19th, the coup forces had succeeded.

Good grief  ::) ::) ::)

Mousavi not seen for days... Under house arrest, no doubt.

Palestinian thugs (I mean freedom fighters) are shipped to Teheran to terrorise and kill Iranian citizens ( I mean resist the Zionist entity).

And this is not, unfortunately, the usual pallywood fakery production. Neda Agha Soltani was not so lucky. She is actually shot dead in Teheran by imported Palestinan thugs.

http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?hl=en&q=nedaa&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#hl=en&emb=0&q=neda+salehi&src=4

Soren wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 10:03pm:

Palestinian thugs (I mean freedom fighters) are shipped to Teheran to terrorise and kill Iranian citizens ( I mean resist the Zionist entity). And this is not, unfortunately, the usual pallywood fakery production. Neda Agha Soltani was not so lucky. She is actually shot dead in Teheran by imported Palestinan thugs.

The majority of the Basij are Palestinian. Apparently many working with Hezbollah and Hamas were called to Iran to support Basij in Tehran.

Mousavis a good man. He'ld certainly get my vote.


Quote:

DEFEATED challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi has vowed to resist what he says is huge pressure to end his campaign to overturn Iran's presidential election. Ignoring an international outcry over the post-election unrest gripping Iran, victorious incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has told US counterpart Barack Obama to stop meddling in the affairs of the Islamic republic. But a top dissident cleric has warned Iran's rulers their suppression of opposition protests could threaten the very foundations of the Islamic regime, which is grappling with the biggest upheaval since the 1979 revolution. Mr Mousavi insisted he would not be cowed by threats but said he was under pressure to withdraw his demand that the authorities cancel the results of an election he says was a "shameful fraud" marred by widespread irregularities. "I won't refrain from securing the rights of the Iranian people ... because of personal interests and the fear of threats," the one-time premier said on his newspaper website, Kalemeh. "My access to people is completely restricted," he said, complaining about restrictions such as the closure of newspapers and problems at his websites. Reports said authorities had rounded up more than 140 Mousavi supporters, political activists, journalists and university lecturers since the disputed election.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25692692-954,00.html

It's starting to look increasingly probable that the Guardian Council headed by the Supreme Leader is not in fact as supreme in Iran as the military and Ahmadinejad. It may soon be revealed that the geriatric council are simply frontmen subject to the authority of senior military leaders and the President - all, no doubt, hardened veterans of Iran's war of attrition with Iraq (Ahmadinejad was a member of the basij and other units of the revolutionary guards during the war).

This would make Iran less of a theocracy and closer to a military dictatorship with leaders who have an almost innate siege mentality, although that mindset is probably shared by the mullahs and much of the country.

If this is true, then I believe the chances of talking Iran out of the bomb is nil.

helian - I guess, given the lack of a democratic system a theocracy needs to have a military dictatorship underneath it.


yes, there is no talking iran out of a nuke.
their attitude has always been uncompromising. With other countries or with their own people.

Some words from Mousavi ??
I cannot vouch for the authencity, but agree with many of the sentiments.


Quote:

"In the name of God, the kind and the merciful Indeed god demands you to safe keep what people entrust in you, and to rule them with justice. [this a verse of Koran] Respectable and intelligent people of Iran, These nights and days, a pivotal moment in our history is taking place. People ask each other: “what should we do?, which way should we go?”. It is my duty to share with you what I believe, and to learn from you, may we never forget our historical task and not give up on the duty we are given by the destiny of times and generations. 30 years ago, in this country a revolution became victorious in the name of Islam, a revolution for  freedom, a revolution for reviving the dignity of men, a revolution for truth and justice. In those times, especially when our enlightened Imam [Khomeini] was alive, large amount of lives and matters were invested to legitimize this foundation and many valuable achievements were attained. An unprecedented enlightenment captured our society, and our people reached a new life where they endured the hardest of hardships with a sweet taste. What this people gained was dignity and freedom and a gift of the life of the pure ones [i.e. 12 Imams of Shiites]. I am certain that those who have seen those days will not be satisfied with anything less. Had we as a people lost certain talents that we were unable to experience that early spirituality? I had come to say that that was not the case. It is not late yet, we are not far from that enlightened space yet. I had come to show that it was possible to live spiritually while living in a modern world. I had come to repeat Imam’s warnings about fundamentalism. I had come to say that evading the law leads to dictatorship; and to remind that paying attention to people’s dignity does not diminish the foundations of the regime, but strengthens it. I had come to say that people wish honesty and integrity from their servants, and that many of our perils have arisen from lies. I had come to say that poverty and backwardness, corruption and injustice were not our destiny. I had come to re-invite to the Islamic revolution, as it had to be, and Islamic republic as it has to be. In this invitation, I was not charismatic [articulate], but the core message of revolution was so appealing that it surpassed my articulation and excited the young generation who had not seen those days to recreate scenes which we had not seen since the days of revolution[1979] and the sacred defense. The people’s movement chose green as its symbol. I confess that in this, I followed them. And a generation that was accused of being removed from religion, has now reached “God is Great”, “Victory’s of God and victory’s near”, “Ya hossein” in their chants to prove that when this tree fruits, they all resemble. No one taught hem these slogans, they reached them by the teachings of instinct. How unfair are those whose petty advantages make them call this a “velvet revolution” staged by foreigners! [refering to state TV and Khameneni, perhaps!] But as you know, all of us were faced with deception and cheatings when we claimed to revitalize our nation and realize dreams that root in the hearts of young and old. And that which we had predicted will stem from evading law [dictatorship], realized soon in the worst manifestation. The large voter turnout in recent election was the result of hard work to create hope and confidence in people, to create a deserving response to those whose broad dissatisfaction with the existing management crisis could have targeted the foundations of the regime. If this good will and trust of the poeple is not addressed via protecting their votes, or if they cannot react in a civil manner to claim their rights, the responsibility of the dangerous routs ahead will be on the shoulders of those who do not tolerate civil protests. If the large volume of cheating and vote rigging, which has set fire to the hays of people’s anger, is expressed as the evidence of fairness, the republican nature of the state will be killed and in practice, the ideology that Islam and Republicanism are incompatible will be proven. This outcome will make two groups happy: One, those who since the beginning of revolution stood against Imam and called the Islamic state a dictatorship of the elite who want to take people to heaven by force; and the other, those who in defending the human rights, consider religion and Islam against republicanism. Imam’s fantastic art was to neutralize these dichotomies. I had come to focus on Imam’s approach to neutralize the burgeoning magic of these. Now, by confirming the results of election, by limiting the extent of investigation in a manner that the outcome will not be changed, even though in more than 170 branches the number of cast votes was more than 100% of eligible voters of the riding, the heads of the state have accepted the responsibility of what has happened during the election.

Quote:

In these conditions, we are asked to follow our complaints via the Guardian council, while this council has proven its bias, not only before and during, but also after the election. The first principle of judgment is to be impartial. I, continue to strongly believe that the request for annulling the vote and repeating the election is a definite right that has to be considered by impartial and nationally trusted delegation. Not to dismiss the results of this investigation a priori, or to prevent people from demonstration by threatening them to bloodshed. Nor to unleash the Intelligence ministry’s plain clothes forces on people’s lives to disperse crowds by intimidation and inflammation, instead of responding to people’s legitimate questions, and then blaming the bloodshed on others. As I am looking at the scene, I see it set for advancing a new political agenda that spreads beyond the objective of installing an unwanted government. As a companion who has seen the beauties of your green wave, I will never allow any one’s life endangered because of my actions. At the same time, I remain undeterred on my demand for annulling the election and demanding people’s rights. Despite my limited abilities, I believe that your motivation and creativity can pursue your legitimate demands in new civil manners. Be sure that I will always stand with you. What this brother of yours recommends, especially to the dear youth, in terms of finding new solutions is to not allow liars and cheater steal your flag of defense of Islamic state, and foreigners rip the treasures of the Islamic republic which are your inheritance of the blood of your decent fathers. By trust in God, and hope for the future, and leaning on the strength of social movements, claim your rights in the frameworks of the existing constitution, based on principle of non-violence. In this, we are not confronting the Basij. Basiji is our brother. In this we are not confronting the revolutionary guard. The guard is the keeper of our revolution. We are not confronting the army, the army is the keeper of our borders. These organs are the keepers of our independence, freedom and our Islamic republic. We are confronting deception and lies, we want to reform them, a reform by return to the pure principles of revolution. We advise the authorities, to calm down the streets. Based on article 27 of the constitution, not only provide space for peaceful protest, but also encourage such gatherings. The state TV should stop badmouthing and taking sides. Before voices turn into shouting, let them be heard in reasonable debates. Let the press criticize, and write the news as they happen. In one word, create a free space for people to express their agreements and disagreements. Let those who want, say “takbeer” and don’t consider it opposition. It is clear that in this case, there won’t be a need for security forces on the streets, and we won’t have to face pictures and hear news that break the heart of anyone who loves the country and the revolution. Your brother and companion Mir Hossein Mousavi (Photo: A supporter of Iran's defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi shows her hand covered in the blood of a wounded person during a demonstration on June 20, 2009 in Tehran, Iran. Thousands of Iranians clashed with police as they defied an ultimatum from supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei calling for an end to protests over last week's disputed presidential election results. Iranian police have tried to break up protest using water cannon, tear gas, batons and live rounds. Getty.)

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/mousavis-latest-statement-i-followed-them.html

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/26/2608954.htm?section=justin CRACKDOWN SILENCES TEHRAN STREETS By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker for AM Iran's opposition forces appear to be running out of options to challenge the presidential election result. Since the bloodshed and mayhem on Wednesday at Tehran's Baharestan Square, Iran's hardline regime appears to have regained the upper hand. If opposition protesters are not beaten into submission, they are arrested or intimidated into staying at home. The protesters are now off the streets and Iran's state-owned Press TV, broadcast in English, is presenting a picture of calm. The main opposition candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, is coming under increasing pressure to withdraw his complaints against the presidential election. Mr Mousavi faces possible arrest if he appears in public and he has not been seen in public since appearing at a rally nearly a week ago. But he is refusing to give in and his supporters are still hopeful that a growing rift at the highest levels of Iranian power might offer a solution. Mr Mousavi's newspaper Green Word has been shut down and scores of his supporters have been detained in recent days. A report on his website claims 70 university professors were arrested after a meeting with him on Wednesday and many supporters fear it is just a matter of time before Mousavi too is under arrest. One such supporter is high-profile human rights lawyer Shirin Ebadi, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2003. "The arrest of Mir Hossein Mousavi could fuel present unrest," he said. "I hope this doesn't happen." But still Mr Mousavi refuses to give in. His website says he is continuing with legal challenges against the election result. And it speaks of growing divisions between those in power including a rift between President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the parliamentary speaker, Ali Larijani. The blog reads: "The head speaker at the Iranian Parliament is reportedly outraged by today's proceedings. Pro-Ahmadinejad supporters are upset that he is showing signs of support for the recent protest they have threatened Larijani with impeachment." HIGH LEVEL SPLIT More significantly there is a widening split between Iran's supreme ruler Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and the man who appointed him two decades ago, former president Ali Akbar Rafsanjani. Mr Rafsanjani is a known supporter of Mr Mousavi, pitting him against the Ayatollah and it is now him who carries the hopes of the opposition. Mousavi supporters are hopeful Mr Rafsanjani may be preparing to speak publicly against the regime but it is unclear what stance he will take on the election. Until then Mr Mousavi is recommending more subtle ways of protest. Today's most provocative act may be the release of thousands of green helium balloons as a tribute to those people killed in the recent violence.

Looks that it is over, and apparently election is hailed as one of most honest elections in Iran.

I just scratch my head, what were the other elections like?

Quote:

Successful revolutions have three phases. First, a strategically located single or limited segment of society begins vocally to express resentment, asserting itself in the streets of a major city, usually the capital. This segment is joined by other segments in the city and by segments elsewhere as the demonstration spreads to other cities and becomes more assertive, disruptive and potentially violent. As resistance to the regime spreads, the regime deploys its military and security forces. These forces, drawn from resisting social segments and isolated from the rest of society, turn on the regime, and stop following the regime’s orders. This is what happened to the Shah of Iran in 1979; it is also what happened in Russia in 1917 or in Romania in 1989. Revolutions fail when no one joins the initial segment, meaning the initial demonstrators are the ones who find themselves socially isolated. When the demonstrations do not spread to other cities, the demonstrations either peter out or the regime brings in the security and military forces — who remain loyal to the regime and frequently personally hostile to the demonstrators — and use force to suppress the rising to the extent necessary. This is what happened in Tiananmen Square in China: The students who rose up were not joined by others. Military forces who were not only loyal to the regime but hostile to the students were brought in, and the students were crushed. This is also what happened in Iran this week. ...

This article by George Friedman is a follow up on his strategic forecast for Iranian affairs.

However the events did expose tensions among the political elite of Iran and also helped to bring Obama to reality that don't conform to his fantasies about islam.

Quote:

Group of Eight foreign ministers rebuked Iran over its crackdown on protesters disputing the result of the June 12 presidential election, while taking steps not to isolate the Iranian regime.

Business as usual .... as usual

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/26/2610136.htm?section=justin CALL FOR IRAN 'RIOTERS' TO BE EXECUTED Posted Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:42pm AEST A hardline Iranian cleric has called for the execution of "rioters", in a sign of the authorities' determination to stamp out opposition to the June 12 presidential election result. Iran's top legislative body, the Guardian Council, said it had found no major violations in the election, which it called the "healthiest" vote since the 1979 Islamic Revolution. The council had already rejected a call for the annulment of the vote by moderate former Prime Minister Mir Hossein Mousavi, who has led mass protests since he was declared a distant second in the election behind incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "I want the judiciary to... punish leading rioters firmly and without showing any mercy to teach everyone a lesson," Ahmad Khatami told worshippers at Tehran University. Iranian state television said eight Basij militiamen were killed by "rioters" during the protests. State media previously said 20 people were killed in the marches. Iranian authorities have accused Mr Mousavi of being responsible for the bloodshed, while the moderate former prime minister says the government is to blame. Mr Khatami, a member of the Assembly of Experts, said the judiciary should charge the leading "rioters" as being "mohareb" or one who wages war against God. "They should be punished ruthlessly and savagely," he said. Under Iran's Islamic law, punishment for people convicted as mohareb is execution. Mr Mousavi's supporters plan to release thousands of balloons later today with the message: "Neda you will always remain in our hearts", in memory of Neda Agha Soltan, the young woman killed last week who has become an icon of the demonstrations. Mr Khatami said Neda was killed by the rioters themselves for propaganda purposes. "By watching the film, any wise person can understand that rioters killed her," he said. Britain's Times newspaper quoted Dr Arash Hejazi, an Iranian who appeared on internet videos helping Neda, as echoing opposition charges the 26-year-old music student was killed by a government militiaman. "She was just a person in the street who was against the injustice going on in her country, and for that she was murdered," he said. Dr Hejazi said that after the protest he left Iran for Britain, where he is resident, fearing arrest. Earlier, the authorities used a combination of warnings, arrests and the threat of police action to drive large demonstrations off Tehran's street since Saturday (local time), with small gatherings dispersed with tear gas and baton charges. - Reuters

This is it for now and it might take a while, very long while.

Quote:

As a leading cleric demanded today that dissenters be punished "strongly and with cruelty" and that some are "worthy of execution," Iran's increasingly isolated opposition leader effectively ended his role in street protests, saying he'll seek permits for future rallies.

http://iran.whyweprotest.net/newsfeed/2529-iranian-cleric-calls-cruel-punishment-executions.html

islam is in its' final days. extremist clerics like that have committed it to the toilet in todays world.

suck it up abu.

This is it folks. This is what happens when islam and muslims are in control.
We have seen exactly the same behaviour here and I have seen it in every musliom chatroom I have been in.

intolerant and crushing.



Quote:

IRAN has arrested eight local staff at the British embassy in Tehran on accusations of having a role in post-election riots. Foreign Secretary David Miliband said last night Britain had protested to the Iranian authorities about the arrests, which he said occurred on Saturday. Mr Miliband described the detentions as "harassment and intimidation of a kind that is quite unacceptable". Iran has repeatedly accused Britain and the US of stoking the unrest that swept the country after the June 12 election that returned hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power amid complaints it was rigged. "Eight members of the local staff at the British embassy who had a considerable role in the recent riots have been arrested," the agency said. Last week, Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki also said Iran might downgrade ties with Britain, after the two governments expelled diplomats in tit-for-tat moves. Earlier yesterday, opponents of Mr Ahmadinejad were bracing for a purge. His defeated rival, Mir Hossein Mousavi, who came a distant second in a poll he insists was rigged by the regime, has continued to defy what he has called "huge pressures" to halt his campaign for a new vote. Last week his communications with the outside world were severely restricted, his web page was taken down and his newspaper was closed and 25 of its employees were arrested. Mr Mousavi inspired hundreds of thousands of Iranians to demand that the results of the June 12 election should be annulled. Yesterday, however, the regime's brutal crackdown, under which at least 17 demonstrators have been killed and about 3000 detained, appeared to be succeeding. Observers said they believed that after his inauguration, due by early August, a vengeful Mr Ahmadinejad would oust anyone in government who had favoured the opposition or simply failed to support him. "There will be a purge, no doubt about it," said Ali Ansari, director of the Iranian Institute at Scotland's St Andrews University. "There are people in Tehran who think, now that the regime has won, they will be left alone. I can't tell you how far from the truth this is." The purge may already have begun. Akbar Torkan, the Deputy Oil Minister and a rising star in the government, was sacked after writing sympathetically in an opposition newspaper. Yesterday, Mr Mousavi rejected a panel set up to hold a partial vote recount. He is insisting on a new vote while another defeated candidate, Mehdi Karroubi, is demanding an independent panel to probe irregularities. Their defiance flies in the face of the nation's top political arbitration body, the Expediency Council, which has urged all candidates to co-operate with the panel set up by the electoral watchdog, the Guardian Council. But the streets of Tehran appeared quiet yesterday after the authorities warned they would suppress any further protests over the vote that triggered the worst unrest since the 1979 Islamic revolution. The Guardian Council, an unelected body of 12 jurists and clerics, said at the weekend it would create a special committee of political figures and candidate representatives to recount 10 per cent of the ballots and draw up a report on the vote. But Mr Karroubi, a reformist former parliament speaker who came a distant fourth, said in a letter to the Guardian Council that a partial recount was "not enough". He called for an independent panel to probe "all aspects of the election", in the letter published in his newspaper Etemad Melli. Another defeated candidate, Mohsen Rezai, has agreed to be part of the panel if Mr Mousavi and Mr Karroubi also agree to nominate representatives to it. But Mr Mousavi, who has spearheaded the massive public opposition to the vote, has demanded a rerun, undeterred by the crackdown on his supporters and an aide turning against him. "Limiting the probe into complaints about electoral irregularities to recounting 10 per cent of the ballot boxes cannot attract people's trust and convince public opinion about the results," he said on his campaign website. "I insist again on cancelling the (results) as the most suitable way out of the problem."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25704786-2703,00.html

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 28^th, 2009 at 5:39pm:

Quote: As a leading cleric demanded today that dissenters be punished "strongly and with cruelty" and that some are "worthy of execution," Iran's increasingly isolated opposition leader effectively ended his role in street protests, saying he'll seek permits for future rallies. http://iran.whyweprotest.net/newsfeed/2529-iranian-cleric-calls-cruel-punishment-executions.html islam is in its' final days. extremist clerics like that have committed it to the toilet in todays world. suck it up abu.

"Oh sprint, those Shia in Iran [and those Sunni in Saudi Arabia], are not real moslems!
Real moslems [like we real moslems here in Australia] are tolerant, and peace loving, and we have many, many, Kuffar friends too!
Honest!"
/sarc off

Yadda, [abu's alter ego]

Sorry, i couldn't resist.



'.....Just like in muslim countries.'

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/sheik.jpg
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/15/out-of-context-fair-go-harmony-under-sharia/

Apparently the code when talking about the supreme leader is 'My Uncle Napoleon' - a term of ridicule.

'My Uncle Napoleon' is a highly successful Iranian TV series based on the novel of the same name.

The 'dear uncle' is an Iranian Alf Garnet who blames Iran's problems on the British...

Evidently Khamenei hasn't got the joke yet.

The 'men of god' have spoken.

Now if the damn British would stop poisoning the water supply with anti-theistimine, they could get on with driving the country into further disgrace and war.

Iran upholds Ahmadinejad's win after recount

This is pretty amazing.

NO NEWS coming out of Iran.

It seems experience, brutality and intolerance has won the day over liberty and democracy.


The value of a free vote is sowen deep though.
I have faith in people justly taking what is right for them.

Good on them, brave to stand up and be counted.



Quote:

THREE of Iran's most prominent opposition leaders flagrantly courted arrest yesterday by denouncing President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's government as illegitimate, one day after the regime said it would tolerate no more challenges to the election result. Mir Hossein Mousavi, the former prime minister who lost the election, said the suppression of dissent was tantamount to a coup. "It's not yet too late," he declared on his website. "It is our historical responsibility to continue our protests to defend the rights of the people ... and prevent the blood spilt by hundreds of thousands of martyrs from leading to a police state." Mohammed Khatami, 65, a popular former president, accused the regime of mounting a "velvet revolution against the people and democracy" and called the security crackdown "poisonous". Mehdi Karroubi, 72, another defeated presidential candidate, said that "visible and invisible forces blocked any change in the executive power". He continued: "I will continue the fight under any circumstances and using every means." The regime responded by shutting down his newspaper. One Iranian analyst expressed astonishment at their audacity. "It looks like they're trying to become living martyrs," he said. "At the very least they will be put under house arrest. At worst they will be taken to jail and charged with threatening national security." The regime might hesitate to lock them up because of the prospect of hundreds of thousands of supporters taking to the streets. "The only question is how big the demonstrations would be and how long the people could fight the might of a military state," the analyst said........

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25724321-2703,00.html

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/03/2615745.htm?section=justin IRANIAN LEADERS URGE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST MOUSAVI By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker Iran's hardline leaders have called for legal action to be taken against opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi over the post-election protests that have rocked the country. Iranian authorities blame Mr Mousavi for the wave of violence that has killed at least 20 people since the disputed election on June 12. Hardline parliamentarians and lawyers are now planning to write to judicial authorities complaining about the opposition leader's actions in encouraging the protests. They want him taken to court. A student branch of the pro-government Basij militia, which helped suppress the protests, has supported the move. Mr Mousavi rejects claims that he is to blame for the violence. He still insists the election was rigged, and says the government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is now illegitimate.

I have suspicion that hardline leaders will be able to convict opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi of whatever crime they wish.

happy - I am sure they could have him publically beheaded.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2009 at 3:06pm:

happy - I am sure they could have him publically beheaded.

Amazing, we appear to have prophet like abilities to predict future.

Happy wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2009 at 2:48pm:

I have suspicion that hardline leaders will be able to convict opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi of whatever crime they wish.

It's possible he could be arrested... And if the regime is in terminal decline, the 'guardian council' might want to exit on a river of blood.

happy - hahahha, I doubt it.


helian - in a way the regime are cornored.
It appears mousavi will continue on his calls, as will other politicians.

If the regime 'arrest" him, they will provide cause for his supporters.
if the regime have a genuine revote, they will be voted out now.

Quote:

since the disputed election on June 12.

The only reason the elections are 'disputed' is because the Iranian people didn't elect the American patsy who the colonialists wanted.

The protests have been amongst a tiny minority of the country's population, and the simple fact stands that the vast majority of Iranians SUPPORT and LOVE Ahmedinejad, because he's their man, and not America's.

The only way America is going to overthrow the Iranian government is the same way they overthrew the Iraqi and Afghani ones.

Besides the U.S and Britain have both killed their own citizens before during protests, so don't claim this is purely an Iranian phenomena. Riot squads anywhere around the world are likely to use force when dealing with people who don't respect the rule of law. Whether that force is reasonable or not can vary from situation to situation, but I'm sure Ian Tomlinson, who was captured on CCTV being bludgeoned to death by UK riot squads as he peacefully walked home from work would've considered the force he suffered to be unreasonable.

You are a seriously warped individual.
The US has no candidate.
The US has no electoral influence.
The hierachy in Iran selects who the candidates will be, the people whomever they choose choose someone already ok'd from the top.
Mousavi used to be involved in terrorism and was very anti US.  he was involved in the US Embassy bombing in lebanon and the US hostage crisis.
Do wake up to yourself Abooby.

Quote:

Mousavi used to be involved in terrorism and was very anti US.

Used to be? Look at the terror he's caused on Iran's streets over the past few weeks. He's a terrorist now.

Just because he was once anti-U.S doesn't mean the U.S is today anti-Mousavi, we all know they want him in power, because he's malleable, they can work with him to fulfil their goals in the region, they can't work with Ahmedinejad, he's not flexible to their needs, he's flexible to the  Iranian people's needs.

You are seriously deluded if you think Ahmadinejad is a good thing for world peace and for Iranians.

Grendel wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2009 at 7:05pm:

You are seriously deluded if you think Ahmadinejad is a good thing for world peace and for Iranians.

In a weird way he just could cause that, if for example NATO or dreaded US or even Israel are forced to get rid of him.

Happy wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2009 at 7:49pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 3rd, 2009 at 7:05pm: You are seriously deluded if you think Ahmadinejad is a good thing for world peace and for Iranians. In a weird way he just could cause that, if for example NATO or dreaded US or even Israel are forced to get rid of him.

And triggering an arms race in the Middle East... Something even the Arab states don't want.

Me think that Arabs would prefer camel races but their shia brothers don't give a camel poo about that.

However from geopolitical point of view Russian energy monopolies stand to be winners in Caspian oil basin.

...Racing this time... and first outta the gate is Stalinist Show Trial followed closely by Sentence Of Death...

Iran media wants Mousavi treason trial

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 7:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:17pm: Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote. A moderate muslim, Sprint.

So it seems that moderate muslims don't last long in muslim world.