Contrary to popular belief that only the koran has creepy stuff in it, this little snippet is supposed to be a direction from jesus, at least according to Luke, 19:27

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

That doesn't sound like his usual stuff, I generally like Jesus' teachings, they fit pretty well with good humanistic practices on most occasions, but I guess everyone can have a bad day.

So?

That's the last line of a parable about " a man of noble birth who went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return." It is a line spoken by that man in the parable.

You have to do better than this before you declare a fatwah on yourself in your rush to equivocation and dhimmitude.

Jesus also told the Apostles to arm up and get the weapon of the day, that being swords, shortly before he was taken captive and crucified.

And?

That's probably the best part of the New Testament, Jesus telling his followers to arm up.

Advice I highly agree with.

mozzaok - whom were the poeple who opposed Jesus ??

easel - the whole quote is quite specific.
It is to only fulfil the OT prophecy and is oppostite to Jesus teachings.


Quote:

It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."      "That is enough," he replied.

Luke 22:37-39

Mozz easel...  you are both full of crap...  I keep telling you people who aren't christian or know little of jesus' teachings...  don't comment on things you know not of.

A parable is a story Mozzz..  told to give a lesson.

easel...  your claim is directly against all jesus' teachings...  provide a quote or shut up eh.

easel wrote on Apr 17^th, 2009 at 10:17pm:

Jesus also told the Apostles to arm up and get the weapon of the day, that being swords, shortly before he was taken captive and crucified.

It is clear from the NT that some of Jesus followers [including Peter?] 'got about' armed with swords.


Luke 22:48
But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
49  When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
50  And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.


Elsewhere in the NT, in an account of the same incident, Jesus counselled against violence.

Matthew 26:48
Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
49  And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
50  And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.
51  And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52  Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.







Even while Jesus was among them, Jesus disciples could not help but reveal their nature, their human failings.

Did Jesus disciples clearly understand his purpose, and his message while Jesus was among them?

It seems unlikely.

Luke 9:43
And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples,
44  Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.
45  But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.
46  Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.


Mark 9:30
And they departed thence, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.
31  For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32  But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
33  And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
34  But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.



It seems that Jesus disciples were motivated by very worldly desires.

2000 years later what hope do we today have, to do what is right [in God's eyes],
.....to find, to understand, and to follow Jesus 'true' teachings?

What hope?

When we are all ppl who are 'overcome' by the 'spirit' of this world.

Me too, i'm a sinner, seeking a better, more acceptable way in my journey.

Will i make mistakes?

Yes.

Should we surrender to the lord and the spirit of this world?

No.




Seek your God, and his righteousness.

I keep telling you back grendel, that I know enough about christianity to want it out of my life.

I can see the problems with Islam, and the effect that it has on everyone's lives, and resent their power to effect us because of their beliefs, and good christians have no problem commenting on that.
What they don't want to admit is that Christianity also forces it's way into peoples lives, who don't want 'any' stinking religion in them.

I don't like religion,
I would like to see it lose all influence over people.

You are an idiot on this subject Mozz...  you just libelled Jesus by saying he said something he didn't by ascribing to him something a character in a story said.  You don't know what you are talking about.

There is no compulsion to Christianity these days by any church.  Unlike Islam which demands submission.

Quote:

you just libelled Jesus

-grendel

Well in that case I will take comfort in the hope that he is in forgiving, rather than vengeful mode.

It was just a little bit to show the bible thumpers that when they attack Islam unmercifully, it also pays to remember what they ascribe to.

I have said many times, as I did in my original post, that I find the majority of christ's teachings to be very sound, but the bible is also a swill pit of horror, which to many christians conveniently ignore while demonising all muslims.

hhhmm, I thought Jesus DID say that, so mozzaok did not libel him.
Still, I have been wrong before.

Sure, there is LOTS of bad stuff on the bible.
Mostly in the OT, and is not for xians to follow.
Often is just what happened. Over a course of 1000's of years, lots of bad stuff happens everywhere.

I really hate that I and others have to conjtinually repeat ourselves...

NO JESUS DID NOT SAY THAT...  he told a story where a character in it said that.

sheesh.

Mozz...  please shut up if you cant follow a simple reply.  Others have told you exactly what you mis attributed etc, etc, etc...  

Grendel wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 10:17am:

I really hate that I and others have to conjtinually repeat ourselves... NO JESUS DID NOT SAY THAT...  he told a story where a character in it said that. sheesh. Mozz...  please shut up if you cant follow a simple reply.  Others have told you exactly what you mis attributed etc, etc, etc...

Grendel,

It does not matter how you try to explain something, to some ppl, some ppl just cannot 'hear' what you are saying.

Its way over their heads [Yadda swishes palm of hand, over Yadda's head].          ;)



Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


Luke 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

OK Grendel, and Yadda, would you care to explain to me how this parable should be interpreted, other than that you don't want to mess with the big guy?

I can see how it would be a very handy one for those disgusting prosyletising fraudsters seeking to strip money from their flocks of gullible followers, but what is the sting in the tale(the passage I quoted), if not an unveiled threat of what happens to those who do not acquiesce to the will of the almighty?

Is it so different from a mafia wiseguy telling someone that not complying with his wishes may be bad for their health?

Jesus Don Corleone?? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

that's more like the mozzaok we all know and love.
thought you had gone soft for a while there.

grendel - you are quite right, it was in a story jesus told, a parable.
Still, it was a parable. Intended to illustrate a point (about God/jesus)

So, what was the point ?

I suggest you read the parable sprint.

This parable appears directly before the emulated Davidic coronation procession which by its symbolism was a direct (although eccentric) challange to the authority of Rome.

grendel - I did. I did agree with the part where they guy that made extra money with what he had was given even more.
That's just how the world is. As unfair as it may seem.

But what about the part where he says "Bring those that oppose me  here and I will kill them ??"

Does he mean the pharisees and the devil ??


helian - I thought JC did not challenge rome ?
But, I could be wrong YET again

::) Mozz

Cant work it out Mozz...  could be because your dealing with stuff you are ignorant about.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 7:50am:

helian - I thought JC did not challenge rome ? But, I could be wrong YET again

Riding into Jerusalem on a colt was part of the coronation ceremony of David kings. The citizens of Jerusalem would have been fully aware that the procession preceded the rightful Jewish king being crowned (the Herodian ruling family being Arab converts to Judaism) as would have the Herodians and the Romans. His ‘reign’ didn’t last long as Rome’s representative of direct rule, Pilate, moved quickly to quash this blatant challenge to its authority.

Lukes version is a mixture of history and 2 parables...  You'll find one in matt.

It was in answer to the coming of the Kingdom of God...  NOT being imminent as many believed at the time.  It touches on what people should do in the meantime and about the inevitability of the day of judgement, etc.

It is a parable ie; a story not a factual blow by blow account of what is going to happen.

Yes, it's true that the accounts of the Davidic coronation have now been reinterpreted, but no one at the time considered it as anything other than the return of the Davidic Messiah king as defined in Jewish theology. They all believed, Jesus included, that god would reestablish the kingdom of god (Israel) and destroy Roman rule.

Even after the execution, Paul presumed the world would end within his lifetime and the Messiah king would return to rule on earth.

Pilate did not want to kill Jesus, the pharisees did . They forced him to.

Jc did not contend with Caeser -


Quote:

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied.      Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

Matthew 22:15-22

One of my more fav answers from him. So simple, so clever.

Matthew blatantly fabricated parts of his gospel (i.e. Herod’s killing of the first born) and completely misinterpreted other parts (such as the part of his Davidic coronation story where he has Jesus riding on both a donkey and a colt).

Rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s is easily interpretable as ‘In the kingdom of god on earth, Caesar has no authority and his currency, no power and only the authority and currency of the new realm will be recognised’.

mozzaok wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 9:29pm:

OK Grendel, and Yadda, would you care to explain to me how this parable should be interpreted, other than that you don't want to mess with the big guy? I can see how it would be a very handy one for those disgusting prosyletising fraudsters seeking to strip money from their flocks of gullible followers, but what is the sting in the tale(the passage I quoted), if not an unveiled threat of what happens to those who do not acquiesce to the will of the almighty? Is it so different from a mafia wiseguy telling someone that not complying with his wishes may be bad for their health? Jesus Don Corleone?? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

moz,

The whole point of a parable is for us to listen to it, and to learn something, for ourselves.

Clearly you can read, and comprehend, what you read.

And what you comprehended, and what you got from the line at Luke 19:27, was that perhaps Jesus was touting himself as 'The Big Don', who intended to have his enemies slain before him [when he came to power, soon].

This same parable begins at Luke 19:11......

Luke 19:11
And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
.....
27  But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


Will someone get slain?

Yes.



To get the drift of what the line at Luke 19:27 'indicates', or alludes to, read another parable.

Maybe 'the penny will drop'?



Matthew 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26  But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27  So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28  He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29  But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:36
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37  He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38  The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.



"....and the reapers are the angels."



Is someone going to get slain?

Yes.

Christians believe that there will be a 'harvest' [of souls] at the end of the world.

And, if we are created beings, which come from God, doesn't God have a right to take in his harvest, in the manner in which he wishes?

If there is a God, then it is clear that the big guy owns us.

We are his harvest, his 'children'.

If God is real, who will stop him?

You?





p.s.
But don't worry about it though moz.

Because God is absolutely just.            ;)

And if we are to fall into the hands of a just God, we can only get our just deserts.

So, IF THERE IS A GOD, there can be nothing to fear, can there?

Err, if we all believe in justice, and TRUTH?

And we all do, DON'T WE!             8-)

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 8:36am:

......Even after the execution, Paul presumed the world would end within his lifetime and the Messiah king would return to rule on earth.

Really?

Wow!

You mean Paul got it wrong, expecting the world would end within his lifetime?
/sarc off






So what?

I believe that Paul may have hoped that world would end within his lifetime.

That he presumed that it would?

I'm not so certain of that assertion,
.....no matter how many Bible scholars may have declared it as 'certain'.




+++++++++





Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


Malachi 3:14
Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?
15  And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16  Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17  And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18  Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

They all thought that Rome would be defeated by their overt holiness alone. The eccentric coronation ceremony and its inane in-your-face challenge to Rome... Paul's obsessed and manic travels preaching a doctrine that during his frenzied mission got thinner and thinner as he sloughed off the theology just to get converts over the line before the end times. And both Paul and James, the brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem Council, despite their bitter disagreements, agreed that 'the end was nigh'.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 2:07pm:

They all thought that Rome would be defeated by their overt holiness alone. The eccentric coronation ceremony and its inane in-your-face challenge to Rome... Paul's obsessed and manic travels preaching a doctrine that during his frenzied mission got thinner and thinner as he sloughed off the theology just to get converts over the line before the end times. And both Paul and James, the brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem Council, despite their bitter disagreements, agreed that 'the end was nigh'.

Paul was a man, James was a man.

We are all flawed, and lacking in knowledge.

But it is a worthy quest, to seek our God, and his righteousness.


1 Corinthians 13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.ihelian,

I know that i can not convince you.

God is real.

And he knows us [individually, intimately].

He knows us, much better than, how we imagine we know him [and i speak here, of 'believers'].


Isaiah 55:6
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7  Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.







Above, i said....

"And he knows us [individually, intimately]."

With 6+ billion souls here now, i don't know how this is possible.

[i know that it beggars belief!! even for someone as 'naive' as myself!    ;)    ]

But [from personal experience] i am sure that it is a reality, that it is true.



Acts 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25  Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26  And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27  That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28  For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.


Hebrews 4:13
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

James was the brother of Jesus. It is inconceivable that throughout 30 plus years of acquaintance that the end times occurrence was not mutually understood. James was also known as 'the just' or 'the righteous' and was also deeply religious. Paul claims authority from a vision of Jesus and neither James nor Paul disagree on the end times being within their generation's lifetime. It's reasonable to presume that Jesus, James and Paul all believed the end was imminent.

jesus never said the end was nigh...  ie:coming soon, in a lifetime or less.   lol.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 3:12pm:

James was the brother of Jesus. It is inconceivable that throughout 30 plus years of acquaintance that the end times occurrence was not mutually understood. James was also known as 'the just' or 'the righteous' and was also deeply religious. Paul claims authority from a vision of Jesus and neither James nor Paul disagree on the end times being with their generation's lifetime. It's reasonable to presume that Jesus, James and Paul all believed the end was imminent.

As you wish.



p.s.
But this sounds very much like 'religion' to me.

[i.e. proving again, 'belief' is closely associated with that religion,   ....err, atheism]         ;)

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 3:12pm:

Paul claims authority from a vision of Jesus and neither James nor Paul disagree on the end times being with their generation's lifetime. It's reasonable to presume that Jesus, James and Paul all believed the end was imminent.

Not so.



helian,

Wasn't Paul's commission from Christ, to take the good news, to the Gentile world?

Which by definition would include every country in the known world, exclusive of Judea.

It would be hard to imagine that, that task, could have been completed within Paul's lifetime?

Even taking into consideration the limited extent of the the known world at that time, could that task reasonably have been expected [by Paul] to have been completed within Paul's lifetime?

I would suggest, No.

It would seem an illogical argument.

i.e.
If the commission given to Paul, was so unlikely to have been fulfilled, so soon after it was given to him, it seems unlikely then that Paul anticipated Christ's 'imminent' return,
.....as you and some others have suggested?



Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.




Ananias was wary of 'Saul', who he knew well, by reputation!

Acts 9:10
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11  And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12  And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13  Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14  And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15  But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16  For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.


Just more affliction in sight, for Paul, down the road.

Yadda wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 3:21pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 3:12pm: James was the brother of Jesus. It is inconceivable that throughout 30 plus years of acquaintance that the end times occurrence was not mutually understood. James was also known as 'the just' or 'the righteous' and was also deeply religious. Paul claims authority from a vision of Jesus and neither James nor Paul disagree on the end times being with their generation's lifetime. It's reasonable to presume that Jesus, James and Paul all believed the end was imminent. As you wish. p.s. But this sounds very much like 'religion' to me. [i.e. proving again, 'belief' is closely associated with that religion,   ....err, atheism]         ;)

Another misuse of the verb 'to believe'.

Yadda wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 3:57pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 3:12pm: Paul claims authority from a vision of Jesus and neither James nor Paul disagree on the end times being with their generation's lifetime. It's reasonable to presume that Jesus, James and Paul all believed the end was imminent. Not so. helian, Wasn't Paul's commission from Christ, to take the good news, to the Gentile world? Which by definition would include every country in the known world, exclusive of Judea. It would be hard to imagine that, that task, could have been completed within Paul's lifetime? Even taking into consideration the limited extent of the the known world at that time, could that task reasonably have been expected [by Paul] to have been completed within Paul's lifetime? I would suggest, No. It would seem an illogical argument. i.e. If the commission given to Paul, was so unlikely to have been fulfilled, so soon after it was given to him, it seems unlikely then that Paul anticipated Christ's 'imminent' return, .....as you and some others have suggested? Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Ananias was wary of 'Saul', who he knew well, by reputation! Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11  And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12  And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13  Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14  And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15  But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16  For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Just more affliction in sight, for Paul, down the road.

Probably the known world to Paul was the known world that counted... i.e. the Roman and Helenised world... At least it was the only one he appeared determined to evangelise. Outside that world he would have been hindered by the language barrier and the fact that he was a Roman citizen, making him an enemy outside the empire. He would probably have continued west had he not been executed in Rome.

However Paul made about as energetic attempt at spreading his bare bones doctrine as could be expected of anyone.

Luckily he appears to have been remarkably well connected, which is not surprising given he was probably related to the Herodians and so would have had prominent contacts in whichever city he preached. He could have travelled at a far more leisurely pace had he thought that the end times would be at least 2000 years off.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 4:13pm:

.....[Paul] could have travelled at a far more leisurely pace had he thought that the end times would be at least 2000 years off.

Look at this world today.

We live in a world filled with violence [insanity] and injustice.



Matthew 24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.



".....But as the days of Noe were,"

Genesis 6:11
.....and the earth was filled with violence.
12  And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13  And God said unto Noah.....the earth is filled with violence through them....


Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.


Lamentations 3:25
The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.
26  It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.


Isaiah 30:18
And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.


Seek your God.

Yadda wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 4:30pm:

Seek your God.

All together now (In a thick Slavic accent).... "In Russia god seek you".  ;D

lot of pointless banter even for you helian...

what was the original question?

Grendel wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 7:58pm:

what was the original question?

Usual pointless theological conundrum...

How much love would a myth give man if a myth-man could love man?

mozzaok wrote on Apr 19^th, 2009 at 8:29am:

Quote: I keep telling you back grendel, that I know enough about christianity to want it out of my life. Don't have it in your life. But Christianity does not rule sovereign states or have courts that make sure it rules people's lives. [quote]I can see the problems with Islam, and the effect that it has on everyone's lives, and resent their power to effect us because of their beliefs, and good christians have no problem commenting on that. What they don't want to admit is that Christianity also forces it's way into peoples lives, who don't want 'any' stinking religion in them.

So what? Christianity does not have people flying planes into buildings. It does not have legions of followers willing to kill people at the first hint of anything they do not like. It is also not a road map for conquest in the name of religion. It is just a religion that you find annoying. That's a whole different league from Islam, which actively seeks to destroy and rule over all other forms of society.



Quote:

I don't like religion, I would like to see it lose all influence over people.

Think of the governments that have had no religion at all allowed by their populace. The USSR, China, North Korea. Not very nice places to be.

The whole moral equivalence argument is, frankly pathetic. There is nothing the same or similar about Christianity compared to Islam. And even if Christianity was exactly the same, it does not mean that we should not deal with the problem of Islam.

All this is, is a misguided character reference for Islam, ie, another religion is really bad see...? Does that make Islam less bad, the problems less real?

You also know nothing about Islam Moazzak. You keep saying 'I know enough to know...' but again, you know nothing about Islam. So your statements about what 'true Islam' believes, says or does are based on ignorance, not facts or evidence.

Get some facts or evidence, and base your beliefs on those, and we may have a sensible conversation.  Until then you need to say, 'I believe xx, but I do not know really because I have nothing to base that on.'

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D