Quote:

Members of the scientific expedition of the Siberian state foundation Tunguska Space Phenomenon say they have managed to uncover blocks of an extraterrestrial technical device. The space body, which was later called the Tunguska meteorite, fell down on Earth on June 30th 1908, 65 kilometers off the Vanavara settlement, the Evenkiya republic....

The meteorite flight culminated in the powerful blast up to 40 Mt of trotyl equivalent

And another one two days ago

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/c55e14a4aa9951602a089e822522b097.jpeg

Quote:

On February 15th of this year at around 6pm the residents of the south eastern Siberian city of Chita (population around 300,000) in Russia witnessed a giant UFO cross their city and then disappear over the horizon. Some managed to photograph the craft with their mobile phones. Shocked pedestrians stopped in the town centre and in parks and pointed to sky declaring the object to be a UFO. Above is a photo of the craft.

Many suspect a secret UFO base lies somewhere in the vast spaces of Siberia. This sighting adds weight to this view.

China: UFO crash at Chengdu 1947 revealed in declassified files

meantime fresher UFO snapped hovering in Northern Territory sky

tallowood wrote on Feb 9^th, 2009 at 10:04pm:

Quote: Members of the scientific expedition of the Siberian state foundation Tunguska Space Phenomenon say they have managed to uncover blocks of an extraterrestrial technical device. The space body, which was later called the Tunguska meteorite, fell down on Earth on June 30th 1908, 65 kilometers off the Vanavara settlement, the Evenkiya republic.... The meteorite flight culminated in the powerful blast up to 40 Mt of trotyl equivalent

I would love it all to be true but what drains my curiousity is the fact that the most interesting thing said in the whole article they have managed to uncover blocks of an extraterrestrial technical device recieves one sentence and is not elaborated on, or ever heard of again. Sounds like typical Russian BS unfortunately.

There are plenty of examples of nails, bolts, and other machinery type items being found inside fossilized rock. What it means - who knows.

Cal, I have not heard of that and I consider myself pretty widely read. While I would not be surprised at my lack of knowledge about a mathematical refinement to Super String Theory, I would be surprised if someone said that species of ape have developed the habit of wearing hats and that it had been documented for many years.

Not saying it is not the case but a couple of pointers in the right direction would be appreciated....I do remember claims made by creationists but considering the overall lack of credibility of the other scientific claims in the book the idea got parked in a back corner of the brain.

It's got nothing to do with creationism. Just means that someone or something decided to have a walk around here a few million years ago when we were just primordial ooze. Which makes sense. The thing about our planet that makes it relatively uncommon, is the huge load of water in a liquid form, ie, not ice or steam. That is something that anyone else wondering around the universe might want to stop and have a look at.

Governments keep a very tight rein on beliefs, I've seen it in a small way myself. They get very scared when anything different might be believed. But much like the tribes people in the hills of New Guinea probably scoffed at anyone who ever said there were people over the other side of the mountain, so it is ridiculous that we somehow think we are the only life in the universe.

Given the universe is a few billion years old (like 12?) it is very likely there would be beings, that have evolved over millions of years, that easily would be able to whiz around the universe, and would regard us as much like the way we regard baterium under a microscope.

Do a bit of a google around the net. Lot's of things out there. The well regarded Book of Lists had a list of 10 anachronisms, which included such things. I remember reading about an axe being found in rock millions of years old.

locutius wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 12:18pm:

tallowood wrote on Feb 9th, 2009 at 10:04pm: Quote: Members of the scientific expedition of the Siberian state foundation Tunguska Space Phenomenon say they have managed to uncover blocks of an extraterrestrial technical device. The space body, which was later called the Tunguska meteorite, fell down on Earth on June 30th 1908, 65 kilometers off the Vanavara settlement, the Evenkiya republic.... The meteorite flight culminated in the powerful blast up to 40 Mt of trotyl equivalent I would love it all to be true but what drains my curiousity is the fact that the most interesting thing said in the whole article they have managed to uncover blocks of an extraterrestrial technical device recieves one sentence and is not elaborated on, or ever heard of again. Sounds like typical Russian BS unfortunately.

I agree. What else but BS would you expect from born and breaded atheist scam bags.

Calanen wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 5:50pm:

Given the universe is a few billion years old (like 12?) it is very likely there would be beings, that have evolved over millions of years, that easily would be able to whiz around the universe, and would regard us as much like the way we regard baterium under a microscope.

A good exemplar for the "fallacy of numbers".

I agree completely that there are older and more advanced civilisations in our galaxy and in the universe at large. I have not the slightest hesitation in saying that I think there would be millions of them. For me, it would be far more extraordinary to say we are alone.

But I'm pretty comfortable in saying that I think the Russians are full of crap in general and given the small amount of information accompanied to the claim, I reckon they are full of crap specifically.

I do not dismiss the idea that we have been visited, inspite of the questionable emotional/mental stability of many witnesses nor the  possibility of advanced ancient societies that have disappeared. I do find certain things unlikely. And some things, like the visions of Mary at Fatima nothing more than the mass delusions of uneducated peasants that NEED to believe in something special. Completely unbelievable.

locutius wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 11:19am:

I agree completely that there are older and more advanced civilisations in our galaxy and in the universe at large. I have not the slightest hesitation in saying that I think there would be millions of them. For me, it would be far more extraordinary to say we are alone.

Better get out and get yourself a lotto ticket then, cos y'know thousands of people win big every year... Surely it's only a matter of time before your numbers come up.

Helian, I consider the existance of other life and civilisations in the universe as a given, always have. From an idealistic young'n thru all my cynical stages. The idea that we are soooo special just doesn't wash I'm afraid.

Hopefully we can avoid meeting too many advanced beings with behavioural signatures like our own, we'll end up becoming the dispossed alcoholic hangers-on of the sector or exterminated like primative tribes before us.

The chance or lotto aspect come into it for me when considering "have we been visited?". That's where, IMO, the long odds come into it. But then people DO win lotto everyday, so sure the numbers don't lie you just have to appreciate the numbers for what they are.

I know people who have won lotto, it neither increased nor decreased the frequency that I play. Very infrequent indeed, really only when the prize money is massive.

locutius wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 1:33pm:

Helian, I consider the existance of other life and civilisations in the universe as a given, always have. From an idealistic young'n thru all my cynical stages. The idea that we are soooo special just doesn't wash I'm afraid.

Yes, as we were all brought up on a diet of Star Trek and Star Wars, it makes our sense of childhood wonder and our presumption of the inevitability of extra-terrestrial intelligent life so hard to abandon.

Because our presumptions go further than just life in its simplest form existing elsewhere in the universe but to include super-intelligent life that far exceeds our own, just like what James T Kirk reported in his Captain's Log.

We have no proof of any of this, of course and no reason to believe that super-intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe other than the expectation that very big numbers means super-intelligent life. This mindset is in every way congruent with a deist's view of the existence of god.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 1:48pm:

locutius wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:33pm: Helian, I consider the existance of other life and civilisations in the universe as a given, always have. From an idealistic young'n thru all my cynical stages. The idea that we are soooo special just doesn't wash I'm afraid. Yes, as we were all brought up on a diet of Star Trek and Star Wars, it makes our sense of childhood wonder and our presumption of the inevitability of extra-terrestrial intelligent life so hard to abandon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life
Beliefs in extraterrestrial life may have been present in ancient India, Babylon, Assyria, Sumer, Egypt, Arabia, China and South America, although in these societies, cosmology was often associated with the supernatural, and the notion of alien life is difficult to distinguish from that of gods, demons, and such. The first important Western thinkers to argue systematically for a universe full of other planets and, therefore, possible extraterrestrial life were the ancient Greek writer Thales and his student Anaximander in the 7th and 6th centuries B.C.

Predating Star Trek and Star Wars by a wee amount of time. The facination has been present for millenia. I understand your argument though. The greeks also discribed the first robots or animated autonomous machines, does the belief in the eventual perfection of robotics hinge on my enjoying Forbidden Planet as a kid or Blade Runner as a young adult?


NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 1:48pm:

Because our presumptions go further than just life in its simplest form existing elsewhere in the universe but to include super-intelligent life that far exceeds our own, just like what James T Kirk reported in his Captain's Log.

My presumptions don't. I think the universe is full of life at all stages of development. Some planets never achieving a sentient lifeform. Some planets with life that we may not immediately identify as life because it is too different and maybe sometimes too advanced. There may be lifeforms that exist as pure energy. Here on earth we have viruses that science scratches it's head over. As to civilisations being millions of years more advanced than out own, sure why not, but a civilisation may only have to be 1000 years more advanced than our own to seem Godlike to us. Some species could be much younger but further advanced because their environment is unimaginably overstocked with resources so conflict never evolved so leapt ahead. Notwithstanding the argument for ourselves that war has accelorated much of out technological, medical and social abilities.



NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 1:48pm:

We have no proof of any of this, of course and no reason to believe that super-intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe other than the expectation that very big numbers means super-intelligent life. This mindset is in every way congruent with a deist's view of the existence of god.

I don't think it is even close to being the same thing at all. I give you exibit (a) Earth.

locutius wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 2:35pm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life Beliefs in extraterrestrial life may have been present in ancient India, Babylon, Assyria, Sumer, Egypt, Arabia, China and South America, although in these societies, cosmology was often associated with the supernatural, and the notion of alien life is difficult to distinguish from that of gods, demons, and such. The first important Western thinkers to argue systematically for a universe full of other planets and, therefore, possible extraterrestrial life were the ancient Greek writer Thales and his student Anaximander in the 7th and 6th centuries B.C. Predating Star Trek and Star Wars by a wee amount of time. The facination has been present for millenia. I understand your argument though. The greeks also discribed the first robots or animated autonomous machines, does the belief in the eventual perfection of robotics hinge on my enjoying Forbidden Planet as a kid or Blade Runner as a young adult?

I would agree that belief in aliens is probably belief in supernatural entities transmogrified. Humans may have an innate predisposition to believe (at least for some time in their lives) in super-entities that exist, control the world and/or determine fate. And being most often depicted as humanoid indicates a tendency towards anthropomorphism when defining these super-entities.

If the past for you is a reasonable guide to the future, then observing improvement in most human creations from one decade/century to the next and inferring this improvement can in principle continue, would not necessarily rely on your enjoying Forbidden Planet as a kid or Blade Runner as a young adult.


locutius wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 2:35pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:48pm: Because our presumptions go further than just life in its simplest form existing elsewhere in the universe but to include super-intelligent life that far exceeds our own, just like what James T Kirk reported in his Captain's Log. My presumptions don't. I think the universe is full of life at all stages of development. Some planets never achieving a sentient lifeform. Some planets with life that we may not immediately identify as life because it is too different and maybe sometimes too advanced. There may be lifeforms that exist as pure energy. Here on earth we have viruses that science scratches it's head over. As to civilisations being millions of years more advanced than out own, sure why not, but a civilisation may only have to be 1000 years more advanced than our own to seem Godlike to us. Some species could be much younger but further advanced because their environment is unimaginably overstocked with resources so conflict never evolved so leapt ahead. Notwithstanding the argument for ourselves that war has accelorated much of out technological, medical and social abilities.

But you said earlier :

Quote:

Hopefully we can avoid meeting too many advanced beings with behavioural signatures like our own, we'll end up becoming the dispossed alcoholic hangers-on of the sector or exterminated like primative tribes before us.

Does that not imply that you presume super-intelligent life exists?



locutius wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 2:35pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:48pm: We have no proof of any of this, of course and no reason to believe that super-intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe other than the expectation that very big numbers means super-intelligent life. This mindset is in every way congruent with a deist's view of the existence of god. I don't think it is even close to being the same thing at all. I give you exibit (a) Earth.

Congruent, I said.

You believe that surely because of all the big numbers (planets, suns etc) life, intelligent life, even super-intelligent life must exist.

Deists believe that surely because of all the order in the universe (galaxies, solar systems, stars, planets etc) an intelligent being must have started it all.

And the deists' exhibit (a) Order.  

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 3:34pm:

locutius wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 2:35pm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life Beliefs in extraterrestrial life may have been present in ancient India, Babylon, Assyria, Sumer, Egypt, Arabia, China and South America, although in these societies, cosmology was often associated with the supernatural, and the notion of alien life is difficult to distinguish from that of gods, demons, and such. The first important Western thinkers to argue systematically for a universe full of other planets and, therefore, possible extraterrestrial life were the ancient Greek writer Thales and his student Anaximander in the 7th and 6th centuries B.C. Predating Star Trek and Star Wars by a wee amount of time. The facination has been present for millenia. I understand your argument though. The greeks also discribed the first robots or animated autonomous machines, does the belief in the eventual perfection of robotics hinge on my enjoying Forbidden Planet as a kid or Blade Runner as a young adult? I would agree that belief in aliens is probably belief in supernatural entities transmogrified. Humans may have an innate predisposition to believe (at least for some time in their lives) in super-entities that exist, control the world and/or determine fate. And being most often depicted as humanoid indicates a tendency towards anthropomorphism when defining these super-entities. If the past for you is a reasonable guide to the future, then observing improvement in most human creations from one decade/century to the next and inferring this improvement can in principle continue, would not necessarily rely on your enjoying Forbidden Planet as a kid or Blade Runner as a young adult.

Maybe that is just me. I found believing in life on other worlds no mental effort whatsoever, yet believing in fairies, dragons and gods could, at my most amiable and compliant be labled as simple possibilities. I believe in mysteries not miracles. I am of course a Star Trek fan but mainly for the conjecture associated with future technologies, I became bored with the consistant anthropomorphic encounters although that was explained in latter storylines. It was nice, but just a story. Star Wars I was not so facinated with, I was much more impressed with the Alien movie.

Super intelligent creatures could very well be as Douglas Adams very cleverly describes..Lab Rats. Or they could be silican chips that are powered and spring to life only during solar flares. I'm not making a categorical prediction. I will say that it seems reasonable for certain body types and parts to be applicable to certain functions and efforts. The freeing of at least one set of limbs from motion duty is very handy for tool makers as well as the concept of this belongs to me ie I can take this with me, I can keep this stick/club etc. Dexterity of those limbs allows the physical realisation to more sophisticated tools. There may be many many species that have our basic body type or variations of it. Do I suppose some kinship with them? Hardly.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 3:34pm:

locutius wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 2:35pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:48pm: Because our presumptions go further than just life in its simplest form existing elsewhere in the universe but to include super-intelligent life that far exceeds our own, just like what James T Kirk reported in his Captain's Log. My presumptions don't. I think the universe is full of life at all stages of development. Some planets never achieving a sentient lifeform. Some planets with life that we may not immediately identify as life because it is too different and maybe sometimes too advanced. There may be lifeforms that exist as pure energy. Here on earth we have viruses that science scratches it's head over. As to civilisations being millions of years more advanced than out own, sure why not, but a civilisation may only have to be 1000 years more advanced than our own to seem Godlike to us. Some species could be much younger but further advanced because their environment is unimaginably overstocked with resources so conflict never evolved so leapt ahead. Notwithstanding the argument for ourselves that war has accelorated much of out technological, medical and social abilities. But you said earlier : Quote: Hopefully we can avoid meeting too many advanced beings with behavioural signatures like our own, we'll end up becoming the dispossed alcoholic hangers-on of the sector or exterminated like primative tribes before us. Does that not imply that you presume super-intelligent life exists?

What is super-intelligence? We have a word for super-intelligence here on earth ..genius. Like Einstein, Beethoven etc. I consider these individuals as super-intelligent so yes I believe it does exist. But it is probably just as rare for other species/beings as it is for us.

Are you perhaps better referring to super-technologies. Then again, yes I do. We see it here amongst own own species that all began in the same place and time. One group have canoes and another space shuttles. Super technology does not imply superiority of intelligence regardless of what some of the racist have to say. It implies different opportunities, different resources and different will to apply and improve learnt technology and maybe more time. Nothing supernatural about it.


NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 3:34pm:

locutius wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 2:35pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:48pm: We have no proof of any of this, of course and no reason to believe that super-intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe other than the expectation that very big numbers means super-intelligent life. This mindset is in every way congruent with a deist's view of the existence of god. I don't think it is even close to being the same thing at all. I give you exibit (a) Earth. Congruent, I said. You believe that surely because of all the big numbers (planets, suns etc) life, intelligent life, even super-intelligent life must exist. Deists believe that surely because of all the order in the universe (galaxies, solar systems, stars, planets etc) an intelligent being must have started it all. And the deists' exhibit (a) Order.

Like I said, I don't think the argument is even similar. Order along with Life are just natural parts of the exploding singularity, nothing more. Intelligent life is just a lotto of opportunities. Earth may very easily have had a budding sentient lifeform (Troodon) 65+ million years ago but nature intervened. Mammal intelligence might never have evolved.

Order describes a pattern of predictability not sentience.

locutius wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 4:38pm:

Like I said, I don't think the argument is even similar. Order along with Life are just natural parts of the exploding singularity, nothing more. Intelligent life is just a lotto of opportunities. Earth may very easily have had a budding sentient lifeform (Troodon) 65+ million years ago but nature intervened. Mammal intelligence might never have evolved. Order describes a pattern of predictability not sentience.

I meant super-intelligence as being much greater than the best of our own and includes super-technology commensurate with super-intelligence.

And big numbers of objects are just that... and that fact does not, per se, imply the existence of life, intelligent or super-intelligent beings.

locutius wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 11:19am:

I agree completely that there are older and more advanced civilisations in our galaxy and in the universe at large. I have not the slightest hesitation in saying that I think there would be millions of them. For me, it would be far more extraordinary to say we are alone. But I'm pretty comfortable in saying that I think the Russians are full of crap in general and given the small amount of information accompanied to the claim, I reckon they are full of crap specifically. I do not dismiss the idea that we have been visited, inspite of the questionable emotional/mental stability of many witnesses nor the  possibility of advanced ancient societies that have disappeared. I do find certain things unlikely. And some things, like the visions of Mary at Fatima nothing more than the mass delusions of uneducated peasants that NEED to believe in something special. Completely unbelievable.

Russians are full of crap because they've had the state atheism for so long. As it was noted in the news coverage it isn't limited to Russians only but Chinese, and unfortunately some Australians are full of that crap too  :(

I think it is possible for beings that fit your definition of "super-intelligence" to exist of course. Do they definitely exist? I don't know. Like I said, there are many different levels of intelligence right here from lowly insects and christian peasants (mostly hardwired) to humans (mostly learned) intelligence). Partially it has something to do with brain size but I think more importantly it has to do with wiring of the brain. Brain size ultimately MAY be a limiter as certain bird exibit quite remarkable intelligence equal to a 3 year old child or christian peasant.

I can well imagine that a species that developed both a large brain and super abundant neural pathways (maybe they have 8 limbs, 4 eyes and live in a world of extreme predaton) developes super intelligence and super technology and no religion.

For me, the vast numbers are not a clincher to the argument just icing on the cake. Earth is my example and the mechanics that allowed life here are available potentially in decillions of places throughout the universe and millions in our own galaxy. I also accept that Intelligence is maybe so rare that it only succeeds is a minute fraction of those places.

So the fallacy of numbers means nothing to me either way because I am not applying vast numbers as a foundation of my belief.

Quote:

And big numbers of objects are just that... and that fact does not, per se, imply the existence of life, intelligent or super-intelligent beings.

The same way if you were a PNG tribesman, you would say, LOL! Life outside of this mountain, what a joke! Only imbeciles would believe that. Of course there is nothing there...the world ends at the base of the mountain - we have always believed that, and we haven't seen anyone else - so of course its just stupid to say there are other 'beings' past this point. Just fairy stories for the simple minded....

Actually PNG tribesman have higher IQ then some atheistic peasants, whose brain wiring was short circuited, though they lag behind the christian peasants and the kokomo.
Of course that is the result of darwinian evolution rather then UFO interference so nobody is to blame.

locutius wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 2:07pm:

For me, the vast numbers are not a clincher to the argument just icing on the cake. Earth is my example and the mechanics that allowed life here are available potentially in decillions of places throughout the universe and millions in our own galaxy. I also accept that Intelligence is maybe so rare that it only succeeds is a minute fraction of those places. So the fallacy of numbers means nothing to me either way because I am not applying vast numbers as a foundation of my belief.

Do you really think you'd believe that extraterrestrial life existed if you knew that only 50 planets existed in the entire universe?

Calanen wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 4:32pm:

Quote: And big numbers of objects are just that... and that fact does not, per se, imply the existence of life, intelligent or super-intelligent beings. The same way if you were a PNG tribesman, you would say, LOL! Life outside of this mountain, what a joke! Only imbeciles would believe that. Of course there is nothing there...the world ends at the base of the mountain - we have always believed that, and we haven't seen anyone else - so of course its just stupid to say there are other 'beings' past this point. Just fairy stories for the simple minded....

Except for the fact that they can see the world doesn't end at the base of the mountain. Even remote PNG tribes and Brazillian tribes know of the existence of other tribes... they just don't care about them.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 11:02pm:

[quote author=locutius link=1234181056/15#19 date=1241150825] Do you really think you'd believe that extraterrestrial life existed if you knew that only 50 planets existed in the entire universe?

Do you know that?

Technically speaking UFO in PNG is called Balu according to Cargo Cult.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 11:02pm:

locutius wrote on May 1st, 2009 at 2:07pm: For me, the vast numbers are not a clincher to the argument just icing on the cake. Earth is my example and the mechanics that allowed life here are available potentially in decillions of places throughout the universe and millions in our own galaxy. I also accept that Intelligence is maybe so rare that it only succeeds is a minute fraction of those places. So the fallacy of numbers means nothing to me either way because I am not applying vast numbers as a foundation of my belief. Do you really think you'd believe that extraterrestrial life existed if you knew that only 50 planets existed in the entire universe?

I would still believe it to be possible that LIFE existed somewhere on one of those worlds, I would be flabergasted if intelligent life existed on one of those worlds but would still think it possible.

Numbers can work both ways of course. After all we haven't even thoroughly explored our own planet but we are one for one for finding life, the jury is still out for intelligence but since I am comunicating with you electronically through a machine that was build by humans using theoretical and practical knowledge about the real world then I would,reservedly, say we are one for one there aswell.  

Of other worlds, if you think of a thorough search, then we have probably searched less the equivalent of a city block.

Again, I see your point about the numbers and of course I cannot separate the vastness from having some impact on my belief BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY I DON'T BELIEVE that the circumstances and mechanics that produced life here, on Earth are unique to Earth. Nor do I believe that the Goldilocks Zone is a definitive rule. Like the recently overturned rule that life could not survive/evolve/florish without sunlight. ala the deep ocean sea vents. Making Europa a very interesting place to visit, even if it is a long long long shot for there to be life.

locutius wrote on May 5^th, 2009 at 2:17pm:

Again, I see your point about the numbers and of course I cannot separate the vastness from having some impact on my belief BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY I DON'T BELIEVE that the circumstances and mechanics that produced life here, on Earth are unique to Earth. Nor do I believe that the Goldilocks Zone is a definitive rule. Like the recently overturned rule that life could not survive/evolve/florish without sunlight. ala the deep ocean sea vents. Making Europa a very interesting place to visit, even if it is a long long long shot for there to be life.

Yes, although if earth is all we have to go by then maybe for life to exist beyond its most primitive forms may require a planet goldilocks-proximate to a sun of a goldilocks size... Maybe the planet also needs a core of iron to produce a magnetic field to obliterate minor asteroids and deflect lethal solar and other cosmic rays... an orbiting moon to exert a rhythm... a tilted axis to produce seasons... proximity to a small failed sun (Jupiter) and other large planets to attract and absorb asteroids... a goldilocks position for the goldiocks solar system within its galaxy that is relatively quiet asteroid-wise... Just some of the other possible cosmological chance particulars that detract from the odds of extraterrestrial life as complex as we know it to exist.

Quote:

In April, around two weeks ago, a number of farmers working in fields noticed what they thought was a helicopter crashing to earth in the Gyeongsang Province of South Korea. The witnesses noticed flames and smoke coming from the ground after the impact. A team of rescue helicopters along with the police and emergency services soon began a thorough search of the area which lasted for over three hours but failed to locate any crashed vehicle. Around 130 personnel were involved in the search. As no wreckage was located the point of impact local authorities speculated that the object might have been a small meteorite or a UFO. South Korean UFO researchers are noting the anomaly whereby the witnesses believed they saw a technological vehicle descending to earth and yet nothing was found in the locale. Many are speculating that this might have been an alien craft buzzing the area whose energy field interacted with the ground nearby with explosive results.

Atheism is delusion.

More of the same

Paul Sinclair of Yorkshire in the UK has been fascinated by UFOs for as long as he can remember but only really got involved in ufology after his first sighting. ‘It involved me and a work colleague. It was at a place called Sledmere on the East Yorkshire Wolds (hill country). It was a bright sunny day and the UFO was just hovering above some trees. What we saw was a structured object of huge size hovering above a field.’ Ever since then Paul has been regularly gazing at the skies. ‘I am the guy who sits in the darkness observing hour in hour out. I am looking for real proof.’

Obviously Paul was excited when he managed to film the footage below on May 1 2009, which he believes may well be an extraterrestrial spaceship, but Paul insists his search for an alien presence in East Yorkshire is far from over.
‘The Wolds UFO phenomenon is real and the dedication needed to sit on the remote Wolds during winter in freezing cold conditions is no less a task than that of a wildlife film maker.’

‘I don't know of anyone else doing this in the UK, I’m not talking a once in a blue moon organised sky watch.' another UK based UFO hunter noted.

'I have built up a good relationship with the local farmers in the area' Paul continued 'You would think that due to the nature of our subject that I would get a few raised brows. The plain fact is that most of them have seen the UFOs. One even told me about following what he called an actual space ship as it silently glided across the tops of trees on his land. His wife, daughter and her then boyfriend also saw it.  He told me that the next day he sat and wrote a full account of the sighting as he never wanted it to change in his mind over the years.’

Paul is hardly the first person to suspect that a UFO gateway to earth might exist in the Yorkshire area and UFO activity in Yorkshire is well documented and very extensive.

Many in the UFO community will admire Paul Sinclair’s dogged resilience and devotion to this important topic. Undoubtedly when disclosure on the alien issue does come about it may well be thanks to the efforts of people like Mr Sinclair.

http://www.beforeus.com/

This is one of those sites that offer to sell you stuff about anachronisms for the low low price of xx.

Some might find it interesting. There have been examples of anachronistic things found here and there - but governments do not like anything they have trouble explaining. I've seen that myself.

UFO activists create new weapons to battle government 'X-files' cover-up


Quote:

Disclosure 101, produced by talented young filmmaker Jake Gould, has been praised by experts in ufology and exopolitics. It’s a straightforward approach to answering basic questions to prepare humanity for mutually beneficial contact with extraterrestrial visitors to Earth.

It is healthy democracy that does not trust a government.

tallowood wrote on May 6^th, 2009 at 9:01pm:

UFO activists create new weapons to battle government 'X-files' cover-up Quote: Disclosure 101, produced by talented young filmmaker Jake Gould, has been praised by experts in ufology and exopolitics. It’s a straightforward approach to answering basic questions to prepare humanity for mutually beneficial contact with extraterrestrial visitors to Earth. It is healthy democracy that does not trust a government.

People are so far gone now - that they are so well controlled in their beliefs, thoughts, speech, methods of reason, that the government and do and tell people just about anything and they believe it.

I know things for a fact, that if I told anyone - everyone would laugh at me and say 'Yeah right as if! blah blah'. And if I could actually show them documents to prove that - they would run away screaming going LA LA LA LA, 'I CAN"T HEAR YOU!'.

The vast gulf between what is real, and what the government lets people believe is frightening. What is more frightening is how easily people are taken in, and are completely unaware.

Iraq showed that the modern state when under totalitarian control, is unshakeable. The methods of control, surveillance, policing are so advanced now, that people will have no chance to revolt properly anymore.

Calanen, that always was the case for common people.

tallowood wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 10:26pm:

Calanen, that always was the case for common people.

Maybe the common people didn't know, but what they didn't know could be uncovered. Now it cannot be uncovered, and never existed. People talk about things being declassified after 30 years or whatever - but there are some things, that are NEVER declassified. Ever.

And you know what - if they were declassified, no one would believe them anyway.

Calanen wrote on May 8^th, 2009 at 1:06pm:

tallowood wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 10:26pm: Calanen, that always was the case for common people. Maybe the common people didn't know, but what they didn't know could be uncovered. Now it cannot be uncovered, and never existed. People talk about things being declassified after 30 years or whatever - but there are some things, that are NEVER declassified. Ever. And you know what - if they were declassified, no one would believe them anyway.

How do you know there are things that are never declassified, ever? Wouldn't you need know what is permanently classified to know that it has never been declassified?


Quote:

And you know what - if they were declassified, no one would believe them anyway.

Surely one of the classical conspiracy theory principles.

What would be the first principle?

Calanen wrote on May 8^th, 2009 at 1:06pm:

tallowood wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 10:26pm: Calanen, that always was the case for common people. Maybe the common people didn't know, but what they didn't know could be uncovered. Now it cannot be uncovered, and never existed. People talk about things being declassified after 30 years or whatever - but there are some things, that are NEVER declassified. Ever. And you know what - if they were declassified, no one would believe them anyway.

May be if it never declassified it's not worth knowing except to archaeologists and should belong to the realm of dead and gone where all great heroes of the Past are. Those who are alive should pay a token to the boatman of the river Styx. When an oath is sworn by Styx, its waters are taken to seal the promise. Gods who broke such a vow suffer a year's unconsciousness and nine years' exile, while to mortal transgressors its waters are deadly poison.

Coast to Coast AM (George Nooney) said that ET was angry that we're using the resources like we are, going to war, and are looking to full scale invade in 90-100 years.

 Supposedly, there has been 7 races in 4 main groups who are ALREADY on Earth, but are in a intergalactic war.  Human technology isn't advanced enough to join the "intergalactic warzone" so every ET quarantines Earth.

You'd get on well with It_is_the_light.

Coast to Coast AM
Coast to Coast AM airs on more than 500 stations in the U.S., as well as Canada, Mexico and Guam, and is heard by nearly three million weekly listeners. With hosts George Noory, George Knapp (weekend) and Ian Punnett (weekend), it is the most listened to overnight radio program in North America.

A media phenomenon, Coast to Coast AM deals with UFO's, strange occurrences, life after death, and other unexplained (and often unexplicable) phenomena. Coast to Coast AM is overnight talk radio with daytime ratings.

Calanen wrote on May 5^th, 2009 at 10:04pm:

http://www.beforeus.com/ This is one of those sites that offer to sell you stuff about anachronisms for the low low price of xx. Some might find it interesting. There have been examples of anachronistic things found here and there - but governments do not like anything they have trouble explaining. I've seen that myself.

WOW do you think it_is_the_light shops there???

I always wondered what happened to Erich von Däniken ...

LOL, Art Bell shows his daughter which means something is wrong. I think he's retired or monitored by the FBI.

http://www.coaststream.com/2010-04-09.php

renegadeviking wrote on Dec 12^th, 2010 at 8:20am:

LOL, Art Bell shows his daughter which means something is wrong. I think he's retired or monitored by the FBI. http://www.coaststream.com/2010-04-09.php

Ohhh she's sooo cute..