It's incredible how much domestic violence goes on in Australia and thousands of protective orders are issued each year.  We have husbands assaulting their wives and children frequently yet often the family hides it because of the humiliation in bringing it to public attention.

This from the government's own website and ABS survey.  These are old figures, but domestic violence is increasing dramatically each year.

5.8 per cent of women had experienced violence in the 12 month period preceding the survey in 2005 compared with 7.1 per cent in 1996

4.7 per cent of these women had experienced physical violence (this includes physical assault and threat of physical assault) in 2005 compared with 5.9 per cent in 1996, and 1.6 per cent had experienced sexual violence (this includes sexual assault and threat of sexual assault) compared to 1.5 per cent in 1996

Of the women who experienced sexual violence during the 12 months prior to the 2005 survey 21 per cent had experienced sexual assault by a previous partner in the most recent incident, and 39 per cent by a family member or friend

The 2005 survey also showed that of those women who were physically assaulted in the 12 months prior to the survey, 38 per cent were physically assaulted by their male current or previous partner. Of the women who had experienced violence by a current partner, 10 per cent had a violence order issued against their current partner and of those women who had violence orders issued, 20 per cent reported that violence still occurred.

Another study by the AIC in 2002, Homicides Resulting from Domestic Altercations, found that the majority of female homicide victims were killed during domestic altercations. In a follow up AIC study, Family Homicide in Australia, Jenny Mouzos and Catherine Rushforth analysed the victim-offender relationships for almost 4500 homicides that occurred in Australia over a 13 year period from 1989 to 2002. The study found that on average there were 129 family homicides each year, 77 related to domestic disputes that killings between partners/spouses accounted for 60 per cent of all family homicides in Australia, with women accounting for 75 per cent of the victims, and men comprising the majority of the killers that a quarter of the intimate homicides occurred after the partners had separated or divorced.

A survey published in 2001 by the Australian Institute of Criminology, Young Australians and Domestic Violence, found that up to one-quarter of the 5000 young people aged 12 to 20 from all states and territories surveyed between 1998 and 1999 had witnessed parental violence against their mother or step-mother.

Domestic violence is illegal in Australia but some prominent community leaders laugh at anti domestic violence laws


In a 2003 lecture given in either Sydney, Samir Abu Hamza speaks out against forced marriages but cites Koranic verse to justify the claim that it is "impossible" for a husband to rape his partner even if she refuses to have sex — and mocks Australian rape laws that contradict the teaching.

"If the husband was to ask her for a sexual relationship and she is preparing the bread on the stove, she must leave it and come and respond to her husband — she must respond," he says in the sermon Keys to a Successful Marriage.

"In this country if the husband wants to sleep with his wife and she does not want to and she hasn't got a sickness or whatever, there is nothing wrong with her she just does not feel like it, and he ends up sleeping with her by force ... it is known to be as rape.

"Amazing, how can a person rape his wife?"

Hamza also delivers contradictory teachings on domestic violence, initially telling followers not to hit their wives but later instructing them on how to do so.

"First of all advise them [then] you beat them … but this is the last resort," he says.

Quote:

These are old figures, but domestic violence is increasing dramatically each year.

The figures seem to contradict you Mantra.

Quote:

The figures seem to contradict you Mantra.

My mistake. 

5.8 per cent of women had experienced violence in the 12 month period preceding the survey in 2005 compared with 7.1 per cent in 1996


Quote:

Domestic violence is illegal in Australia but some prominent community leaders laugh at anti domestic violence laws

Yes - very interesting Tallow.  I should have realised that this thread would be waylaid by information that whatever violence exists in Australian society - Muslims always go one step further.  ::)

mantra wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 11:18am:

Quote: ... [quote]Domestic violence is illegal in Australia but some prominent community leaders laugh at anti domestic violence laws Yes - very interesting Tallow.  I should have realised that this thread would be waylaid by information that whatever violence exists in Australian society - Muslims always go one step further.  ::)

Mantra, you are imagining things. I did not even mention the word muslim or the word islam here.  More then that I said SOME community leaders NOT ALL community leaders. And it is about domestic violence isn't it?

OK - I get your point Tallow.  Whoever promotes domestic violence ie rape in the name of religion, or for any other reason should be charged for incitement to violence.

But what if their religion permits it? And what if they only make vague references to slapping your wife or forcing her to have sex?

Apparently Hamza is not real islamic learned man as "his interpretations have drawn criticism from prominent Muslim women, who say that no forms of family violence are acceptable under Islam."
I'm surprised that abu did not said it to defend islam credibility from the rogue like Hamza.

Maybe Abu should talk to these proiminet Muslim women about wife beating.

mantra wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 11:48am:

OK - I get your point Tallow.  Whoever promotes domestic violence ie rape in the name of religion, or for any other reason should be charged for incitement to violence.

Yes, and that is true not only about stray islamic clerics but Australian prominent men and women as well. Do you remember there was a judge or a magistrate years ago who made a comment about soft violence as a sexual foreplay? he was fried by Australian media the same way Hamza was but nothing more serious happened to him just like with Hamza, which is a pity as the law would have precedent to stop these idiots to make stupid remarks like that.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Maybe Abu should talk to these proiminet Muslim women about wife beating.

Or Muslim Ettiquite.

tallowood wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 12:32pm:

mantra wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:48am: OK - I get your point Tallow.  Whoever promotes domestic violence ie rape in the name of religion, or for any other reason should be charged for incitement to violence. Yes, and that is true not only about stray islamic clerics but Australian prominent men and women as well. Do you remember there was a judge or a magistrate years ago who made a comment about soft violence as a sexual foreplay? he was fried by Australian media the same way Hamza was but nothing more serious happened to him just like with Hamza, which is a pity as the law would have precedent to stop these idiots to make stupid remarks like that.

Zero tolerence and triple penalties for Domestic Violence and Road Rage.

Domestic violence is an ingrained part of Australian culture. I read somewhere that 1 in two Australian woman will experience domestic violence in some form in their lifetimes.

This is a shocking stat, and you can all stick your heads in the sand all you like, and make emply claims that 'muslims are worst'...but the facts speak for themselves.

Oh....and interestingly, at around Christmas there is a 30% increase in domestic violence cases. Why do you think that is?

Its fairly safe to assume that alcahol is the fuel that drives most of these cases...and having lived in both Australia and Egypt, I can tell you now, that violence against woman (and in general violence overall) is far more rife in Australia.

I have never seen a girl in public getting bashed by her husband/boyfriend in public in Egypt. Unfortunately I have witnessed this here 3-4 times now.

If blokes are willing to bash their wives/gf's in public, just imagine what happens in the privacy of thier own homes.

And throwing your daughter off the westgate bridge? Whats up with that. And its not an isolated incident unfortunately. not long ago a man bashed his 3 month old to death. a 3 month old. Makes you feel sick in the stomach that anyone, let alone a father can hurt such a small innocent child.

Their must be something inherrently wrong in a society which leads to men killing their children, and bashing their wives so regularly.

But hey...its much easier to criticize other societies then to actually look at the problems in yours!

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Maybe Abu should talk to these proiminet Muslim women about wife beating.

Perhaps you should be talking to these prominent western woman about wife beating...which occurs in western society far more then muslim societies.

locutius wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 1:14pm:

tallowood wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 12:32pm: mantra wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:48am: OK - I get your point Tallow.  Whoever promotes domestic violence ie rape in the name of religion, or for any other reason should be charged for incitement to violence. Yes, and that is true not only about stray islamic clerics but Australian prominent men and women as well. Do you remember there was a judge or a magistrate years ago who made a comment about soft violence as a sexual foreplay? he was fried by Australian media the same way Hamza was but nothing more serious happened to him just like with Hamza, which is a pity as the law would have precedent to stop these idiots to make stupid remarks like that. Zero tolerence and triple penalties for Domestic Violence and Road Rage.

coming down hard with tougher laws and zero tolerance may have some impact...but not much. Most of this violence is occurring when men are drunk, under the influence and not thinking straight anyway.

It is the drinking culture which needs to be tackled. but Australia, being the nation of p(ss pots that we are, don't want to hear that.

So we'll continue to pay lip service whilst our woman continue to suffer.

Quote:

I have never seen a girl in public getting bashed by her husband/boyfriend in public in Egypt. Unfortunately I have witnessed this here 3-4 times now.

I've never seen it anywhere. Could this be down to the time you have spent in the two places, and who you used to hang out with? Furthermore, the culture that Islam creates woulc clearly drive domestic violence behind closed doors.


Quote:

And throwing your daughter off the westgate bridge? Whats up with that. And its not an isolated incident unfortunately.

;D


Quote:

Perhaps you should be talking to these prominent western woman about wife beating...which occurs in western society far more then muslim societies.

You say it does. Then again Abu says that beating your wife doesn't count as wife beating. It's just slapping her around a bit. Go figure. What we do know is that Islam tolerates and hides domestic violence. Australia doesn't. Don't confuse the hiding of domestic violence with the elimination of domestic violence.

Lestat wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 1:39pm:

locutius wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 1:14pm: tallowood wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 12:32pm: mantra wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:48am: OK - I get your point Tallow.  Whoever promotes domestic violence ie rape in the name of religion, or for any other reason should be charged for incitement to violence. Yes, and that is true not only about stray islamic clerics but Australian prominent men and women as well. Do you remember there was a judge or a magistrate years ago who made a comment about soft violence as a sexual foreplay? he was fried by Australian media the same way Hamza was but nothing more serious happened to him just like with Hamza, which is a pity as the law would have precedent to stop these idiots to make stupid remarks like that. Zero tolerence and triple penalties for Domestic Violence and Road Rage. coming down hard with tougher laws and zero tolerance may have some impact...but not much. Most of this violence is occurring when men are drunk, under the influence and not thinking straight anyway. It is the drinking culture which needs to be tackled. but Australia, being the nation of p(ss pots that we are, don't want to hear that. So we'll continue to pay lip service whilst our woman continue to suffer.

Actually the muslim gang rapists were not drinking alcohol instead they were listening to the crazy islamic cleric in the Lakemba mosque so though alcohol may have an intoxicating influence it is clear that so does islamic preaching.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 1:52pm:

I've never seen it anywhere. Could this be down to the time you have spent in the two places, and who you used to hang out with?

Who did I used to hang out with? I used to hang out with Aussies Freediver....average Australian non-muslims. Besides, you assume that the violence I witnessed was committed by people i know. It wasn't...it was by strangers on the street. Abusing and hitting their gf's whilst people did nothing. Once me and my mates even intervened.


freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 1:52pm:

Furthermore, the culture that Islam creates woulc clearly drive domestic violence behind closed doors.

Furthermore this is a claim that has absolutely no evidence or substance to back it up


Quote:

And throwing your daughter off the westgate bridge? Whats up with that. And its not an isolated incident unfortunately.

;D


Quote:

Perhaps you should be talking to these prominent western woman about wife beating...which occurs in western society far more then muslim societies.

You say it does. Then again Abu says that beating your wife doesn't count as wife beating. It's just slapping her around a bit. Go figure. What we do know is that Islam tolerates and hides domestic violence. Australia doesn't. Don't confuse the hiding of domestic violence with the elimination of domestic violence.[/quote]

"the violence I witnessed was committed by people i know. It wasn't...it was by strangers on the street"

You said that the girls were beaten by "their husbands/boyfriends" how would you know that if people were total strangers or unless you made an assumption based on your own cultural background?

Quote:

Who did I used to hang out with? I used to hang out with Aussies Freediver....average Australian non-muslims.

'Average' Aussies who beat up their wives in public? Something tells me there is something you are leaving out, like it happenig at 3am outside the dodgiest pub in town.


Quote:

Furthermore this is a claim that has absolutely no evidence or substance to back it up

Yes it does. Islam requires women to cover their bodies. Furthermore domestic violence in Islam is part of a strategy of humiliation. It is designed to humiliate. They are hardly going to talk openly about it are they? They certainly aren;t going to do it on the street.

Some of these AVOs are bogus, In a previous life I worked in this area, some woman are abused and some use it to advance their own goals in the family court. You can apply for an AVO with very little evidence of wrong doing. Ive even seen them used to gain citizenship.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 2:38pm:

'Average' Aussies who beat up their wives in public? Something tells me there is something you are leaving out, like it happenig at 3am outside the dodgiest pub in town.

Your making some dodgy assumptions there freediver. Sorry to disapoint you but I don't hang out with people who bash woman. What I witnessed was strangers, people I didn't know..assualting their gf's..in public. This would never occur in a muslim country.

I guess you believe Ron Barrasi also hangs out with 'aussies' who beat their gf's huh.

not sure what relevance the time of the incident occurs has. It still occurred in Australia, by Australians. Whether it occurred at 3am or 3pm has no relevance to the topic whatsoever.

Much of the violence we witness in the west today occurs after hours, when young hooligans who can't handle thier alcahol run riot. What...are we supposed to now 'turn a blind' because it hasn't occurred during daylight hours?

One of the occasions occurred at the beach, in clear daylight. And I find it amazing that you are acting all surprised about this. Perhaps you are just playing dumb...or really are naive.


freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 2:38pm:

Yes it does. Islam requires women to cover their bodies. Furthermore domestic violence in Islam is part of a strategy of humiliation. It is designed to humiliate. They are hardly going to talk openly about it are they? They certainly aren;t going to do it on the street.

You really struggle with the concept of 'evidence'. Let me give you a hint...just because you say or think something, this does not constitute 'evidence'.

Once again your ramblings are just full of nonsence..and more importantly, when asked to provide evidence, all you can do is repeat the same lie again.

Alas...given your inability to provide any 'evidence' to back up your bigotted claims, we can only assume that you are once again providing nothing of substance.

The only argument you can provide is 'they're muslims, so they must be worst'....

Pathetic to say the least.

Quote:

not sure what relevance the time of the incident occurs has.

Where you out walking the dog at 3am in King's Cross?


Quote:

Whether it occurred at 3am or 3pm has no relevance to the topic whatsoever.

It is relevant to who you were hanging out with and what you were doing. You made a comparison between Australia and Egypt based on your extremely limited experience. Did this involve dodgy Australian bars at 3am compared to Egyptian Mosques during the daytime? How much time in each location was involved? Is your comparison at all meaningful? Or are you just glad you got out of Egypt without being robbed?


Quote:

Once again your ramblings are just full of nonsence..and more importantly, when asked to provide evidence, all you can do is repeat the same lie again.

You want me to give you eivdence that Islam requires women to cover their bodies? Or that Islam permits wife slapping as a way of humiliating women to get them in line?

This Board is rapidly becoming the place of example where almost every Thread is a Muslim bash/dabate.

I have moved on.  

Muslim/Islam sucks, yet you pricks want to bring it into the atmosphere here at almost every opportunity.

Get over it, fer ferks sake.

Islam sucks.

Okay?

Now, can we talk about something else?

Please?

Aussie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 9:45pm:

This Board is rapidly becoming the place of example where almost every Thread is a Muslim bash/dabate. I have moved on.   Muslim/Islam sucks, yet you pricks want to bring it into the atmosphere here at almost every opportunity. Get over it, fer ferks sake. Islam sucks. Okay? Now, can we talk about something else? Please?

Aussie, I'm with you on this. No muslims no problems. :)

I agree, Lestat, Abu and all the other retarded Islamist can go #### themselves, Islam is S##T and so are its followers and to think we once worried about people from South East Asia, how wrong we were.

pope urban 2 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2009 at 10:50am:

I agree, Lestat, Abu and all the other retarded Islamist can go #### themselves, Islam is S##T and so are its followers and to think we once worried about people from South East Asia, how wrong we were.

And southern Europeans, Italians and Greeks before them and eastern Europeans, Serbs, Croats and other Slavs, then the Catholic Irish even before them... My god! We've been worried a bloody long time.

Quote:

'Average' Aussies who beat up their wives in public?

Are you dense fd? Or just like running people around in circles? Is that the oonly debating style that works for you? Seems like it to me. He clearly said it's not anyone he's associated with (ie. his average aussie friends).


Quote:

Something tells me there is something you are leaving out, like it happenig at 3am outside the dodgiest pub in town.

Wouldn't matter when/where it happened, the fact is it happens, quite a bit. I've also had the displeasure of witnessing it in public, and even listening to it regularly from neighbours in the past.

And this isn't evidence that domestic abuse is 'out in the open' in Australian society, it's evidence that it's fairly widely tolerated. 'Out in the open' means it can be discussed and addressed, not that it can happen in public view.


Quote:

Yes it does. Islam requires women to cover their bodies.

Firstly, all societies require women to cover their bodies, that's got absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence. That has gotta be the most pathetic attempt to link two things that are completely irrelevant that I've ever seen.

Secondly, many (perhaps most?) of those men in Australia who engage in domestic violence have their women walking around 9/10ths. naked, so that clearly disproves your extremely dubious claim that there's some obscure link between levels of public decency dress codes and domestic violence.


Quote:

Furthermore domestic violence in Islam is part of a strategy of humiliation. It is designed to humiliate.

Unless you're going to claim that a smack on the hand (that cannot leave marks) is domestic violence, then your whole argument about Islam and domestic violence is just a load of bollocks, please give it up.


Quote:

Or are you just glad you got out of Egypt without being robbed?

Since Australia has one of the highest burglary rates in the world, that comment is just a tad daft. More like he should be lucky he didn't get robbed before he went there.


Quote:

Or that Islam permits wife slapping as a way of humiliating women to get them in line?

Instead of making it sound like the instant solution as soon as your wife gets out of line, why don't you quote the proper rulings, which is that as a last resort, after all options have been exhausted, including seperating yourself from the marital bed, then a disclipinary smack can be used. Not domestic violence, not beating your wife/gf until she's black and blue in a drunken rage, just a small smack on the wrist, a token form of disclipine, as one would use with a child. it MUST NOT be done in anger or rage, it must be a calm and rational smack. The idea of it is not to cause pain, which is what domestic violence is, by anyone's account. You know full well the two are worlds apart, but in your usual deceptive manner, you don't mind ignoring the facts, in order to stir up a little debate.

You are a dishonest man fd, and you discredit yourself more and more everytime you touch that keyboard of yours.

Quote:

Wouldn't matter when/where it happened, the fact is it happens, quite a bit.

Then why have I ever seen it? Also, his point was not that it happens, he was trying to pretend that his extremely limited experience was somehow proof that it happened more in Australia.


Quote:

Firstly, all societies require women to cover their bodies, that's got absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence. That has gotta be the most pathetic attempt to link two things that are completely irrelevant that I've ever seen.

Abu, it is a fact that the more you make a woman cover her body, the easier it is for them to hide bruises. I am not making a link that isn;t there, just stating a simple fact.


Quote:

Unless you're going to claim that a smack on the hand (that cannot leave marks) is domestic violence, then your whole argument about Islam and domestic violence is just a load of bollocks, please give it up.

Abu, you said yourself that domestic violence is designed to humiliate in ISlam. Are you changing your mind now?


Quote:

Since Australia has one of the highest burglary rates in the world, that comment is just a tad daft.

This coming from the man who quotes comparitive statistics that are clearly flawed and meaningless, then tries to rpetend they still have menaing because they confirm his limited experience.


Quote:

Instead of making it sound like the instant solution as soon as your wife gets out of line

I did not say anything about when Islam permits it. It is the fact that Islam permits it at all that is just wrong. You are trying to put a positive spin on it by explaining all the details, but you cannot expect others to follow your lead and try to put a positive spin on it as well every time they mention the fact that Islam permits domestic violence.


Quote:

why don't you quote the proper rulings

;D You are the Muslim here Abu. Not me. Why don't you quote the proper rulings when I ask you to? Oh that's right, because if you tell the truth I will use it against you. So all you can do is gibve a few examples that nmake it seem not so barabaric.


Quote:

The idea of it is not to cause pain, which is what domestic violence is

What is the idea then? Oh that's right, to cause humiliation. Well, that's all right then, isn't it? Whatever works to keep your wife in line I suppose. So smack your wife with a disgusting, saliva soaked miswak.

Lestat wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 1:35pm:

Domestic violence is an ingrained part of Australian culture. I read somewhere that 1 in two Australian woman will experience domestic violence in some form in their lifetimes.

No it's not. And I thought we didnt have a 'culture' according to u. Only with bad things apparently.

If it was part of Australian culture, we wouldnt have laws to stop it. We do, and the courts are ruthless in protecting women nowadays. In the past it was worse, but good men never hit their women whatever the laws were like. And most people, always thought hitting ur wife was bad and condemn it.

Islam on the other hand, as a doctrine of Islamic law, says you can beat your wife. That seems to be far more entrenched as 'culture' than the fact that there are people who commit domestic violence here.

The biggest problem community with domestic violence in Australia is the Aboriginal community.


Quote:

This is a shocking stat, and you can all stick your heads in the sand all you like, and make emply claims that 'muslims are worst'...but the facts speak for themselves.

Islamic states wouldn't keep stats on domestic violence, so how would we ever know?


Quote:

Oh....and interestingly, at around Christmas there is a 30% increase in domestic violence cases. Why do you think that is?

Is there? Maybe because people are at home with the family so are more likely to hit each other.


Quote:

Its fairly safe to assume that alcahol is the fuel that drives most of these cases...and having lived in both Australia and Egypt, I can tell you now, that violence against woman (and in general violence overall) is far more rife in Australia.

You living in Egypt and Australia is not really an empirical study of domestic violence in the two countries.

Quote:

I have never seen a girl in public getting bashed by her husband/boyfriend in public in Egypt. Unfortunately I have witnessed this here 3-4 times now. If blokes are willing to bash their wives/gf's in public, just imagine what happens in the privacy of thier own homes. And throwing your daughter off the westgate bridge? Whats up with that. And its not an isolated incident unfortunately. not long ago a man bashed his 3 month old to death. a 3 month old. Makes you feel sick in the stomach that anyone, let alone a father can hurt such a small innocent child. Their must be something inherrently wrong in a society which leads to men killing their children, and bashing their wives so regularly. But hey...its much easier to criticize other societies then to actually look at the problems in yours!

[/quote]

We do look at the problems in ours. And the biggest right now aside from the economy, is Islam.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON CAUSES OF HONOUR CRIMES IN
EGYPT:

The legal system in Egypt is contradictory in that it guarantees women's rights in the  public arena, restricting them in the private sphere. The personal status law for
example, permits not only male polygamy, but the right of the husband to divorce his  wife for no good reason and the expulsion of a divorced woman from the marital  residence if she has no children or her children are beyond custody age. It also
requires the wife's obedience if she needs the husband to spend on her. Family law  prioritizes the reproductive role of woman, assuming that men alone are responsible for providing for the family. It places the protection of the family unit above individual rights within the family, giving men privileges to go with the role of sole
provider.

Likewise women are not treated as individuals, but rather as wives, mothers and daughters expected to obey the patriarch; and the control of the sexuality of girls and women is observed and monitored by male members of the family. [Just Breeding cattle - Cal]

Economic rights are further determined by the woman\s position within the family.
Because the family remains the basic unit of Egyptian society, family structure and  relations play a significant role in determining women's economic opportunities.

The problem is not only with the law but also with the application of the law that  undermines women's rights. Judges in many cases are influenced by the same  patriarchal biases of society. Women cannot be judges in Egypt except in the  Constitutional court. The law is implemented by men only (police and justice depts.
are all men)

Girls are socialized to consider marriage life's mission, because a woman does not have status unless she is married. As a result, women tend to accept and tolerate injustices that take place in the family. Many women, especially from low and middle
income classes, tend to sacrifice their individual rights for the sake of preserving the marriage. Control of women's sexuality is a major obstacle to their practice of rights.

Religious extremists place the blame for excessive libidinal drive on women alone, with the result that female genital mutilation is universally practiced and veiling is increasingly imposed and honour crimes are acceptably practiced.

Honour crimes refer to the murder of a woman by her male family members for a  perceived violation of the social norms of sexuality, or a suspicion of women having transgressed the limits of social behaviour imposed by traditions. This includes seeing
or meeting a man even if this is only a suspicion or a gossip. Honor crimes include  also a husband kills his wife whom he or other family members suspected her of adultery.

It is difficult to estimate the overall number of honour killings that take place yearly in Egypt. An Egyptian report based on 1995 statistics counted 52 honor killings (out of 819 murders) reported.

Neither Shariah nor modern laws have appropriately penalized the practice due to the strong influence of the tribal system and popular beliefs about women's sexuality. In addition, modern penal codes and also the practices reinforce the notion that men have a "right" to punish women for improper sexual behaviour.


Honor crimes constitute a major violation of women\s human rights. It is the most extreme form of domestic violence. Murder to cleanse family honor is a type of crimes committed against women, with impunity, in many parts of the world.

Egyptian films represent honour killing as part of highly valued and well respected tradition. Family honour is shown as dependent on the sexual conformity of its female family members. With the strong wave of conservatism in Egypt, strong criticism ofthe practice of honour killing by activists is rejected by many. They consider activists
who condemn the practice as deviants from the religious principles and from good traditions and that they are only attempting to adopt a western agenda that does not respect family's honour and that permit females to practice premarital and extra
marital relationships.

Article 17 of the Egyptian Penal code allows judges to decrease the sentences given in the case of murder when they decide that the condition of the murderer requires so.

Such reductions reach as little as six months that could also be spent during the trial.

Therefore the murderer can escape being imprisoned and walks free.

Also in the same penal code, a man's act of adultery is adulterous only in the marital home (article 277), but a wife is adulterous outside, or inside the marital home, and need not be found deflagrate delicate for the husband to benefit from the defense of
inflamed emotions. The constitutionality of these laws has been challenged by activists in Egypt.

[Ok, this UN report must be wrong. Lestat's study was what he observed himself in Egypt. Who is going to send the UN the correction memo? Cal ]

http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/egm/vaw-gp-2005/docs/experts/khafagy.honorcrimes.pdf

tallowood wrote on Feb 6^th, 2009 at 10:35am:

Domestic violence is illegal in Australia but some prominent community leaders laugh at anti domestic violence laws

http://www.geocities.com/lizeth_hal/spoiler/Green_kaiba.jpg
Because they are laughable.

People who are victims of domestic abuse allow themselves to be victims. Maybe children don't, but adults do. Where as children are bound to their parents for life support, adults are independent. Combine independence with rationality, and you have no excuse to be taking abuse. Other then the fact you're too emotionaly insecure to do otherwise..

I should know. I was abused. I blame myself. I should've burned the house down with her doped up on NyQuil while I had the chance..

http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0005/D5/48/D5489FDAB1537EEE6714E7.jpg
But all the same. I ruined her reputation, I took her friends, I dated her best friend (she was a bitch too and cheated on me for a fourteen year old girl! ...I was more pissed off that it wasn't me cheating on her with a fourteen year old girl LOL!), I pretty much ruined her life. I guess I'm content with that... Would be nice to make her so hideously ugly though she can never fool anyone again. Noone would tolerate half that poo from an ugly ass burned victim...

That's the way you curb abuse. You don't make more laws. Government is the problem, not the solution!

You treat people as if they were the scum of the Earth. And for the most part, they are...

Quote:

I should know. I was abused. I blame myself. I should've burned the house down with her doped up on NyQuil while I had the chance..

What did she do to you - strip you naked, tie you up and whip you?  

Does it feel empowering to get back at a girl by gossiping behind her back?

Quote:

What did she do to you - strip you naked, tie you up and whip you?

http://i4.bebo.com/033a/6/medium/2007/06/14/08/1433029609a4677351845m.jpg
lol, if only...

No, best way I can describe her is "Batman villain". A heartless bitch who tries to act innocent and cute, then abuses you. It's funny how you're the one complaining about abuse yet probably never been abused.

You seem to have a habit of doing that. Wanting laws on things you know nothing about.


Quote:

Does it feel empowering to get back at a girl by gossiping behind her back?

http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0000/04/09/0409BA11A37A7B02BD279A.jpg
Is it considered gossiping if it's the truth?

You know, friends don't just listen to someone's ex ussualy. I mean for pity's sake, they didn't even like me.

I'm surprised it didn't occur to you sooner if "Jesus Christ, if Jim Profit says she's evil she must be the turd straight from Satan's rectum! Jim Profit is like Charles Manson but without the getting laid!"

And right you are. She was Satan's turd...

Quote:

It's funny how you're the one complaining about abuse yet probably never been abused. You seem to have a habit of doing that. Wanting laws on things you know nothing about.

I only asked you a question Jim - don't get defensive.  You are making ignorant assumptions again about people you don't know!  

It's only ignorant if I'm wrong.

You did not hint to me being wrong. I don't get phased by petty insults and accussations of being a meanie.

I don't assume, I judge. Assume means I base my stance off some irrational whim, judge means I came to a conclusion based off the evidence shown to me.

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judge means I came to a conclusion based off the evidence shown to me.

Well you've got no evidence because this is only a forum...not a Court of Law.  People only post here under nicks and can be anybody or anything so you're not adequately equipped to make judgements about anyone on the net.

Says who?

My observation is impeciable. If you want to live your life in blind ignorance just so people don't think you're a prick, be my guest.

But we have brains and deduction skills for a reason. Discrimination and malevolence isn't without reason, it's about survival. Why if we hadn't judged people, we'd be dead.

The indians made that mistake, and they got slaughtered for it didn't they?

Liberalism is just a psychological tool to limit people's minds and potential. Less they become dangerous and powerful. Too powerful to control and could take their place.

Quote:

But we have brains and deduction skills for a reason. Discrimination and malevolence isn't without reason, it's about survival. Why if we hadn't judged people, we'd be dead. The indians made that mistake, and they got slaughtered for it didn't they?

Well the internet isn't quite the same thing and the Indians didn't have cyber nicks to hide behind.  

Our brains and deduction skills aren't at their best on the net because none of us are real.  We can lie, exaggerate and misinform and the recipient can only make assumptions, most of which are usually incorrect.

Perhaps when you've been talking to the same people over a few years you get to know some of their characteristics and beliefs, but you still can't judge the person until you've spoken to them and met them in person and this is called reality.

The net isn't reality.

People could lie, but they won't. The internet's anonymisity reveals their true nature. Not having to worry about being punished for their thoughts.

So if anything, the best place to learn about a person is through the net. Not masqueraded by the censors and whistles of day to day living..

And let's face it, there's just too few people in this world to waste your time "years" trying to get to know. bugger them. You go by first impressions, make a call, and stick by it. If they don't like it too bad.

I deal with it, everyone else can too.

"The 200lb (90kg) ape, who had appeared on TV commercials, attacked the woman as she got out of her car to visit its owner in Stamford, Connecticut.

The woman suffered "serious blood loss" from facial injuries and was in a "very serious" condition in hospital.

The animal, Travis, also injured two police officers before being shot dead as it tried to enter a police vehicle. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7894196.stm

tallowood wrote on Feb 17^th, 2009 at 10:31pm:

"The 200lb (90kg) ape, who had appeared on TV commercials, attacked the woman as she got out of her car to visit its owner in Stamford, Connecticut. The woman suffered "serious blood loss" from facial injuries and was in a "very serious" condition in hospital. The animal, Travis, also injured two police officers before being shot dead as it tried to enter a police vehicle. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7894196.stm

poo like this wouldn't happen if PS3 had games.

Jim Profit wrote on Feb 18^th, 2009 at 8:12am:

tallowood wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 10:31pm: "The 200lb (90kg) ape, who had appeared on TV commercials, attacked the woman as she got out of her car to visit its owner in Stamford, Connecticut. The woman suffered "serious blood loss" from facial injuries and was in a "very serious" condition in hospital. The animal, Travis, also injured two police officers before being shot dead as it tried to enter a police vehicle. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7894196.stm poo like this wouldn't happen if PS3 had games.

Would we have poo islam if mohammed had PS3 games?

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Would we have poo islam if mohammed had PS3 games?

I think Mohammad is a pretty cool guy, eh marries the ten year olds, and doesn't afraid of nothing!

lol, seriously. Islam is a religion I've thought of converting too. The only reason I havn't is because they're much more strict then I am. But we definitely get along in the like little girls and violence category..

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But we definitely get along in the like little girls and violence category..

I've been waiting for you to notice that.


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Religious extremists place the blame for excessive libidinal drive on women alone, with the result that female genital mutilation is universally practiced and veiling is increasingly imposed and honour crimes are acceptably practiced.

According to Abu, women in Egypt are freely choosing to go back to wearing the veil.

Is this cartoon racist?

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/02/19/chimp.cartoon.react/art.cartoon.nypost.jpg

Yes, it's nasty - but if the cartoon had been printed in an Australian newspaper and the monkey represented Swan or Rudd - no, although it would have been offensive because of the murder.

tallowood wrote on Feb 20^th, 2009 at 7:18am:

Is this cartoon racist? http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/02/19/chimp.cartoon.react/art.cartoon.nypost.jpg

No, it's just a double play on the gorrilla incident and the idiocy of our government.

We should be more pissed about how we can't say whatever we want without someone riding our ass. I should be able to depict obama as primate with a spear in one hand and a bucket of KFC in the other going "oh Lawdy! The Stimulis package!" If I want too...

mantra wrote on Feb 20^th, 2009 at 8:03am:

Yes, it's nasty - but if the cartoon had been printed in an Australian newspaper and the monkey represented Swan or Rudd - no, although it would have been offensive because of the murder.

All the cartoon meant was that it was an idiot who wrote the stimulus package, not that Obama was a monkey. That was just a group of whiney lefties trying to take a cheap shot at the post because they dont like its Right wing view.

That chimp got killed recently, and so they wanted to say, that stimulus package was so bad a chimp must have drafted it. That was all. The monkey looks like a monkey, not Obama.

Jim Profit wrote on Feb 17^th, 2009 at 7:22am:

Says who? My observation is impeciable. If you want to live your life in blind ignorance just so people don't think you're a prick, be my guest.

Your spelling isn't. And if your powers of observation were so fantastic, you'd be in a much better job than working as security at the local mall. Maybe making money on the stock market.

Actually security guard work requires alot of observation. That's how poo doesn't get stolen, vandalized, or illegal things go down. I am The Judge Dredd of my faccinity. And people best respect my law.. 8-)

On this whole "domestic abuse" crap. It seems to be a popular thing in America recently with some rap singer beating his wife, and some amazonian bitch beating her husband. This is why assault shouldn't be illegal. Because when you make something illegal, people get discriminated. "Women are physicaly weaker" I don't give a bugger. I don't give a bugger if every woman on Earth has a strength score of less then 10. You have no buisness getting into a fight you know you can't win.


Anyone who strikes first has the right to get beaten to the grave. If anyone, man, woman, Muslim, Jew, (especially Jew.. lol) hits you. You have the moral obligation to make that person wish they had never even looked your way. If you're going to fight, leave someone with smacking mental scars from the ravashing you give them.

I garantee you. If people took their health and self defense seriously instead of playing with eachother's dicks.... There'd be no domestic violence...

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[quote] We want stupidly overcrowded transport systems

Jim---It'd be crowded anyway. Any people is too many people...



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We want them to bring in their 000's of years of bitterness towards other nations, not excluding our own

Jim---Why not? We're all bitter over something!


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We want them to breed like rabbits and sponge off the system

Jim--It's your own fault for having socialism. And what? Somehow it's better if a natural Aussie leeches off the system then a foreigner? Racist much?


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We want them to stick to their own and make Australians feel like a stranger in their own country

Jim--Oh boohoo. We Americans deal with people ussualy "sticking to their own kid". You don't see us complaining! [/quote]

Nice to see Jim , the supposed kid of this forum, showing how one eyed some are in their veiws...

Good on you

Oceanz, what's that got to do with this thread?

And you don't think that JP is one eyed?

Not I have anything against one-eyed people, they're easier to take advantage of.  I once got a bj from a one-eyed girl. She didn't see me coming  ;D

Amadd wrote on Mar 14^th, 2009 at 11:44am:

Oceanz, what's that got to do with this thread? And you don't think that JP is one eyed? Not I have anything against one-eyed people, they're easier to take advantage of.  I once got a bj from a one-eyed girl. She didn't see me coming  ;D

  ;D

I'm not allowed to post in MC as you know amadd....funny that.

Now get me a cup of tea mudflap..and dont give me lip.   :-*

Calanen wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 8:54pm:

mantra wrote on Feb 20th, 2009 at 8:03am: Yes, it's nasty - but if the cartoon had been printed in an Australian newspaper and the monkey represented Swan or Rudd - no, although it would have been offensive because of the murder. All the cartoon meant was that it was an idiot who wrote the stimulus package, not that Obama was a monkey. That was just a group of whiney lefties trying to take a cheap shot at the post because they dont like its Right wing view. That chimp got killed recently, and so they wanted to say, that stimulus package was so bad a chimp must have drafted it. That was all. The monkey looks like a monkey, not Obama.

It is culturally insensitive no matter which way you look at it.

She still had one eye, thats stupid, maybe a blind girl would make more sence. As the Dentist said to the Actress, nicest teeth Ive ever cum across.

easel wrote on Mar 15^th, 2009 at 2:29am:

Calanen wrote on Mar 2nd, 2009 at 8:54pm: mantra wrote on Feb 20th, 2009 at 8:03am: Yes, it's nasty - but if the cartoon had been printed in an Australian newspaper and the monkey represented Swan or Rudd - no, although it would have been offensive because of the murder. Maybe people need to harden up a bit. All the cartoon meant was that it was an idiot who wrote the stimulus package, not that Obama was a monkey. That was just a group of whiney lefties trying to take a cheap shot at the post because they dont like its Right wing view. That chimp got killed recently, and so they wanted to say, that stimulus package was so bad a chimp must have drafted it. That was all. The monkey looks like a monkey, not Obama. It is culturally insensitive no matter which way you look at it.

Maybe people need to harden up a bit, and stop being 'offended' by every little thing like a pack of spineless pansies.

Calanen wrote on Mar 15^th, 2009 at 9:29am:

Maybe people need to harden up a bit, and stop being 'offended' by every little thing like a pack of spineless pansies.

Like 'threatening' to use your ignore list when your feelings are hurt?