Seems like in the Christian West, it's ok to marry your daughter off young, so long as you get enough beer for it.  ;D

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Man sells daughter for cash, beer, meat
07:14 AEST Wed Jan 14 2009 4 hours 38 minutes ago

A man in California has been arrested for arranging to sell his 14-year-old daughter for $US16,000 ($A23,577), 100 crates of beer and several cases of meat, police said on Tuesday.

Authorities in the rural farming community of Greenfield, 225 kilometres southeast of San Francisco, said the 36-year-old Hispanic man sold the child to an 18-year-old man who was to marry the girl.

The case came to light after the parent complained to police that his daughter's prospective husband had failed to pay him under the terms of their deal, which was brokered by a third party.

The man has been arrested on human trafficking charges while the 18-year-old has been booked for statutory rape. The child has been returned to the family.

Greenfield Police Department said in a statement there had been several cases where children had been sold or offered for sale, including one incident involving a 12-year-old.

"While each case is unique, the issues of arranged marriages involving minor females or the selling of minor females to older males have become a local problem," the statement said.

Source: ninemsn

Only thing is, he has been charged and arrested for it.
Will likely spend some time inside jail.

So it is not a western thing to do.



Unlike the many cases in muslim countries where dirty sex maniacs "marry" children and can then legally abuse them.
filthy disgusting pigs, sexist society

A rarity in the West.

But this [man sells daughter] happens EVERY DAY in Sharia jurisdictions.

Go on, ask me for an example.

Abu's new strategy is this. Find solitary examples of crimes that are commonplace in the Islamic world and make a thread about it, and say 'SEE ITS EVERYWHERE'.

Bit like lighting a bale of hay in a desert and saying 'See bushfires are common in the Sahara!'

Muslim Gypsy Immigrants Sell Daughter To Be Raped, Married

James Fulford relays news reports on how some Gypsies in New York state treat their teenage girls.

   “At the house, though, the girl said a man raped her in an upstairs bedroom.

   “Moments later, the girl said her mother stormed into the room and demanded to know what happened. The girl said she was still bleeding when her mother took her home and beat her ‘like it was my fault.’

   “The next weekend, the girl said her mother took her back to the house. When she arrived, the girl said, the mother of the man who had raped her ‘welcomed me to the family.’

   “That night, she said, she was forced to sleep in the man’s bed, where she was raped again.

   “‘I asked him why he was making me have sex with him and he told me he had to pay my mom $3,000 for me to be his bride.”

The girl is 15 years old. James reports that the Trinity Emmanuel Lutheran Church sponsored the entry of the family into the United States. Good intentions are not an excuse for irresponsible actions. The asylum-promoting Protestant churches that engage in helping people come to the United States are harming this country.

James also notes that many of the news reports on this story leave out the ethnicity and religion of the responsible parties. Can't let the readers see patterns that demonstrate that different immigrant groups behave differently on average in important ways. The readers might reach conclusions that the liberals in the media don't want the readers to reach and so the readers have to be protected from forming opinions justified by the facts. Can't have that.

To learn about the "in group morality" of Gypsy culture and why we should want to keep it out of the United States see Steve Sailer's essay A Gypsy is haunting Europe… for the scoop.

Afghan poor sell daughters as brides

Years of war, drought force some to give up young girls

MSNBC, February 23, 2003
By Marc Kaufman


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan, Feb. 23 - The young sisters are perky and eager to play. Zarlaska is 10 and listens intently to all that her parents are saying. Nabas Gul, 9, is more shy and hides behind her head scarf.

The two live with, and often care for, five younger siblings in a large room in an otherwise ruined building, along what was once the front line of a forgotten Afghan battle. The room is dark and bare for such a large family, but there are some quilts, a cradle and a fire that make it feel a little like home.

But it won't be the girls' home for long. When the two were just toddlers, their father needed money to pay off his debts and, seeing no other source of funds, he sold his daughters to wealthy opium poppy growers who wanted brides for their sons. Zarlaska and Nabas Gul can stay with their family until their husbands-to-be come to claim them - usually around the time they reach puberty - but their parents would have no right to object if the buyers wanted to take them now.

"I am a poor man, and this is how I can feed my large family," said their father, Sharafudin, himself a small-time poppy farmer who moved his family to Kandahar several years ago to escape other debt collectors. He said he knew it was wrong to sell the girls - that some mullahs in his village had advised against it - but that he didn't regret it. "What else could I do?" he asked with a shrug. Then he added, "Many others are doing the same thing."

RISING PRACTICE

By all accounts, he is correct. There are no statistics collected to measure it, but Afghans involved with women's issues say the selling of young girls is on the rise. After a quarter-century of war, civil chaos and most recently drought, many families have been strained to the breaking point, and the outright selling of daughters for cash is one harsh and heart-rending result.

     

From a report by United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan:

"Despite positive developments regarding women's rights, intimidation and violence by regional and local commanders against women continue unabated.... In many rural areas, especially in the more conservative tribal belt, the situation of women has not changed to any great extent since the removal of the Taliban. The prevalence of conservative attitudes limits the full, equal and effective participation of women in civil, cultural, economic, political and social life throughout the country at all levels of society."

     

UN News Service, March 6, 2003

The practice has a cultural basis here in southern Afghanistan, where prospective husbands have long paid a "bride price" for their wives - a kind of dowry that is traditionally set by the status of the bride's family and the resources of the groom's. But what was a custom has evolved into a market in which men can buy young girls from poor families. And with the country's legal system a shambles, there is nothing to stop them.

"Unfortunately, we have families now where the girls are sold as young children and the parents don't seem to think of the welfare of the girls at all," said Safia Amajar, director of the Kandahar Women's Association and a longtime educator in the city. "After so many years of war, people are poor and society is broken. "Selling the children as brides is against Islam, and I tell people that. But there are so many other problems we face and that one is very complicated for people right now, so nothing happens to stop it."

Marrying a child and being directly paid for the sale are prohibited in Afghanistan under both the civil code and Islamic law. Marzia Basel, a former Afghan judge and founder of the Afghan Women Judges Association in Kabul, pointed out that "there are laws, and then there is custom and there is great poverty." "The legal system has disappeared almost entirely here, and nobody would ever be charged for selling a daughter or marrying one so young," she said. "Until we have a strong government and people here have certain rights, these are the kind of things that will happen."

Britain: Muslim Fathers Sell Daughters For Arranged Marriages
Wednesday December 15, 2004
In Britain, many women in immigrant families from Southeast Asia are suffering - their families are forcing them into marriages with Muslim men who treat them abhorrently. Physical abuse, psychological abuse, and even sexual abuse are occurring far too often.

The BBC reports:

   This year alone the British High Commission in Islamabad has dealt with almost 100 cases of forced marriage - a 20% increase over 2003. The majority involved women, but in 20 instances young men were the victims. ... Often British officials manage to secure the release of victims through negotiation with the families or local authorities. When that fails, they have sometimes had to mount court action.

   In many instances, British Asian families wanted to reinforce traditional regional cultural values by sending their daughters back to Pakistan to get married. Often, though, the prime motivation is money - since Pakistani men who marry British Asian women are entitled to UK visas, the passport to better-paid work and a higher standard of living. It is not uncommon for fathers to sell-off their daughters, such is the demand for ill-gotten visas.

   As part of an effort to help young people coerced into relationships, British ministers are currently considering whether to criminalise forced marriages. Other plans include raising the minimum age at which a foreigner can enter the UK as a spouse from 16 to 18.

The British government is going to have to work hard in order to protect these vulnerable women. They have a duty, in fact, to protect these women because their own relatives certainly aren't doing anything to accomplish this goal. It's a pity when a woman's own family is so dangerous that she needs protection from them. The Muslim community itself is going to have to step up and work as well.

Puhleease... arranged marriages, dowry, etc, etc, etc...  ad infinitum ad nauseum ABU...

Good thing you've got 2 feet...  one more left to shoot.

Why is it that nobody can respond to the articles being posted?

All you can do is bring opposing articles, as if to make a tit-for-tat post-fest?

Please just focus on the article being brought and argue it's particulars.

yes Abu.
I thought I had.


Quote:

Only thing is, he has been charged and arrested for it. Will likely spend some time inside jail. So it is not a western thing to do.

I am morally opposed to this sort of crime and wholly agree with the charges.
that it is a crime says the west disapproves of it.
As far as I know, there is no support for this in the NT.

Quote:

I am morally opposed to this sort of crime and wholly agree with the charges. that it is a crime says the west disapproves of it

Funny.. when Muslims act against the teachings of Islam, you've got no problem claiming Islam is to blame... doesn't go the other way?


Quote:

As far as I know, there is no support for this in the NT

Did you limit it to the NT because you know in the OT a man certainly can sell his daughter? not just into marriage but into slavery... onlly for 5 years though.

Quote:

But this [man sells daughter] happens EVERY DAY in Sharia jurisdictions.

Do muslims really do it?  :o

lestat - thank goodness you have finally made a real statement !!

yes, no support is given for paedophilia in the NT, and it is illegal in the west.

yes, really one would have to say peadophilia has been entrenched within churches for generations.

For that in my thoughts, those churches should crumple. its right to see the attendances dropping there.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 20^th, 2009 at 10:41pm:

lestat - thank goodness you have finally made a real statement !! yes, no support is given for paedophilia in the NT, and it is illegal in the west. yes, really one would have to say peadophilia has been entrenched within churches for generations. For that in my thoughts, those churches should crumple. its right to see the attendances dropping there.

Just goes to show...some Christians do commit acts which are un-Christian.

Now if you could only apply this logic to Islam and muslims then you might actually learn something.

lestat - yes, i have always agreed christians do "bad" stuff to.

I have contradictory messages from the koran.
The actions of some muslims make the koran seem like an infection.

Are those acts unmuslim acts?

well it depends which muslim I talk to.

But the "good" muslims seem hesitant to stop the "bad" muslims.
And they basically agree with each other.

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 20^th, 2009 at 8:32pm:

Why is it that nobody can respond to the articles being posted? All you can do is bring opposing articles, as if to make a tit-for-tat post-fest? Please just focus on the article being brought and argue it's particulars.

abu- if you're going to open the article with a remark like 'seems this is ok in the christian west' people are going to respond by showing the like in other religions and places. despite the obvious irony of your statement it will provoke such a reaction

Lestat- this is a warning to stop making snide comments connecting christianity and priests with pedophiles. it is inflammatory and offensive

A open thread on that topic is fine lestat

You seem to refer to it a bit, so start a thread on it.

Gaybriel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2009 at 11:28pm:

Lestat- this is a warning to stop making snide comments connecting christianity and priests with pedophiles. it is inflammatory and offensive

Then I suggest you should either close or delete half the threads on this board Gabriel, because they too make snide comments connecting Islam with terrorism.

It seems that being 'inflammatory and offensive' is part of the parcel on this site.

If you can't beat them, then join them I say.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 20^th, 2009 at 10:41pm:

lestat - thank goodness you have finally made a real statement !! yes, no support is given for paedophilia in the NT, and it is illegal in the west. yes, really one would have to say peadophilia has been entrenched within churches for generations. For that in my thoughts, those churches should crumple. its right to see the attendances dropping there.

Is it though? As far as the opening post is concerned, that could be quite legal in Australia. We have an 18 year old and a 16 year old. We don't know if she was consensually involved with him or not. All we know is that the father was a a 'drunk' who consented only if the boy bought him some beer.

We're talking about two teenagers having sex, within the boundaries of consent in Australia. This happens all the time in Australia (well shock horror) but in the US, the boy gets locked up. It's the US that's dysfunctional in that regard as far as I'm concerned. If the guy was say 45 or something, then it would be a different matter.  

This is not pedophilia at all. It's a normal heterosexual relationship.

As far as the Bible is concerned, you find me the passage where it says that a 16 year old cannot marry, or any reference to age.  

(edit - I see she was 14 - ok that's too young)

Lestat wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 8:33am:

Gaybriel wrote on Jan 20th, 2009 at 11:28pm: Lestat- this is a warning to stop making snide comments connecting christianity and priests with pedophiles. it is inflammatory and offensive Then I suggest you should either close or delete half the threads on this board Gabriel, because they too make snide comments connecting Islam with terrorism. It seems that being 'inflammatory and offensive' is part of the parcel on this site. If you can't beat them, then join them I say.

yes there are snide comments like that which I attempt to regulate. however if I were to delete all these comments there would barely be anything left and there would be no opportunity for people to discuss these beliefs and hopefully start to know better. the best way for these remarks to be counteracted is to discuss them in earnest and present fact to the contrary, rather than delete them altogether. if your comments reflected an actual belief I would let them stand so you could be better informed- but you're just trying to raise everyone's ire

you yourself should know the damage such remarks make so it surprises me you stoop to that level. I don't believe you actually think all priests are pedophiles and that you're just saying it to stir people up - essentially trolling.

the thing is lestat, you dont just 'join them', you outdo them in your aggression. and if that is all you're interested in doing then you will not be joining any discussion in here as you will be banned.

both you and grendel are now officially warned that if you don't stop your attacks on each other, disrupting conversation etc then you will no longer be welcome to post here.

grendel I know you weren't part of it in this topic but your recent behaviour has left a lot to be desired

Lestat - I actually think you can make a valuable contribution but when you start making snide an disgusting comments, launch personal attacks and the like- you degrade yourself, others and your community.

it's all very easy to display adab or manners when someone else displays the same- the challenge is when others do not.

Excuse me....
I just reply to the rot he posts and was let post...  

At least things flowed when you weren't around.

And we didn't have to put up with biased apologist rot.

Grendel wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 5:15pm:

Excuse me.... I just reply to the rot he posts and was let post...   At least things flowed when you weren't around. And we didn't have to put up with biased apologist rot.

awww you missed me *hugs*

as you see his posts were deleted as were yours- you're responsible for your own actions and the warning stands

Already be warned on the islam one by mod: personal attack ABU...  hmmm, there seems to be a pattern forming.

Grendel wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 6:15pm:

Already be warned on the islam one by mod: personal attack ABU...  hmmm, there seems to be a pattern forming.

and the thing these incidents have in common is you

the pattern is revealed!

No that would be an idiotic assumption on you biased behalf....  how unusual.

he libelled me.  he lied.  he deleted my pots.  he deleted my response.  he threatened to ban me.  just like you are doing.  Cept you didn't post crap and lies about why you deleted my post.  i dislike dishonety and liars.

Now them is the facts apologist.  And he is a LIAR...  now mod that one if you must but it's God's truth.

If you are going to moderate at least be unbiased and balanced.

Don't try to defame me for telling the truth...  The pattern reveals a muslim and muslim supporter pattern...  and an avoidance of the truth.  Both of you are unfit to be moderators.

Grendel wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 8:29pm:

No that would be an idiotic assumption on you biased behalf....  how unusual. he libelled me.  he lied.  he deleted my pots.  he deleted my response.  he threatened to ban me.  just like you are doing.  Cept you didn't post crap and lies about why you deleted my post.  i dislike dishonety and liars. Now them is the facts apologist.  And he is a LIAR...  now mod that one if you must but it's God's truth. If you are going to moderate at least be unbiased and balanced. Don't try to defame me for telling the truth...  The pattern reveals a muslim and muslim supporter pattern...  and an avoidance of the truth.  Both of you are unfit to be moderators.

I love you too baby

Then apologise...

Grendel wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 8:43pm:

Then apologise...

nah I don't love you enough to apologise for no reason

but I will give you chocolates

So lying about someone isn't a reason to apologise...?
How very muslim of you.

I didnt lie about you sugar biscuit

Ah yes you did...

Quote:

At least things flowed when you weren't around.

I don't often agree with Grendel - but he has got a point Gaybriel.  The threads were quite "robust" while you were away - they flowed quickly and were very very busy and interesting.

I realise you have your own way of moderating - but it just continually disrupts the thread with all those comments in red and all the deletions.  Already this thread has gone way off topic.

No-one is really offended by a little name calling - most of it's not taken seriously.  If you want a heavily moderated forum - fine, but if you want people to enjoy posting on it regularly - you'll need to ease off a bit.

I think that is where mantra and I get on well.
Though we are political poles apart, we both make our own minds up and at times clearly cross the party line.

mantra calls it as she sees it.

Gaybriel wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 8:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 21st, 2009 at 8:43pm: Then apologise... nah I don't love you enough to apologise for no reason but I will give you chocolates

How come he gets hugs and chocolates and I don't? I mean he is a Geatish monster. It just goes to show that women don't go for nice guys.  :'(

mantra wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2009 at 6:44am:

Quote: At least things flowed when you weren't around. I don't often agree with Grendel - but he has got a point Gaybriel.  The threads were quite "robust" while you were away - they flowed quickly and were very very busy and interesting. I realise you have your own way of moderating - but it just continually disrupts the thread with all those comments in red and all the deletions.  Already this thread has gone way off topic. No-one is really offended by a little name calling - most of it's not taken seriously.  If you want a heavily moderated forum - fine, but if you want people to enjoy posting on it regularly - you'll need to ease off a bit.

if you have a complaint take it to the complaint's section

what you call robust debate I call people having slinging matches

muso wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2009 at 8:24am:

Gaybriel wrote on Jan 21st, 2009 at 8:47pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 21st, 2009 at 8:43pm: Then apologise... nah I don't love you enough to apologise for no reason but I will give you chocolates How come he gets hugs and chocolates and I don't? I mean he is a Geatish monster. It just goes to show that women don't go for nice guys.  :'(

awwww *snuggles and chocolates*

Shut up! (muso)
I am a nice guy.
I helped her with the spider.   ;D

lol- that's true!! my hero! (not being sarcastic!)