What things must Islam do to become acceptable to the rest of the world?

1/ Stop lying to non-Muslims.
2/ Stop trying to be the worlds only religion and way of life.
3/ Respect other religions and beliefs.
4/ Educate its followers. (In reality)
5/ Embrace modernity.
6/ Allow Freedom of Religion.  
7/ Be more tolerant and forgiving.
8/ Embrace Democracy.
9/ End barbarism.
10/ Recognise and denounce all terrorism and terrorists.
11/ Abolish Jizya. (and the associated attitudes)
12/ Embrace secularisation.

Well there is a dozen to start things off...

Who cares? God will sort it out, we all meet up with him eventually, and then we get what we deserve.

Don't believe in God? Believe death is just ceasing to live, nothing, the 'pre birth' argument?

Why not kill yourself then? I mean, when you're dead, you're dead right? That's what atheists think right?

I reckon if you kill yourself you end up in Hell.

I mean, seriously, no matter how hard you try to save the world, explain to people what is going on, at the expense of your own reputation and credibility, and continue to get dismissed by those living in the fantasy land created by the puppet masters, they still don't care and desperately cling on to their false realities for some bizarre reason.

No matter how hard you pray for people to be saved, no one cares or tries to do anything.

I'm not going to pray for anyone anymore. If I think I do the wrong thing, I'll pray for forgiveness. Not going to ask God to help anyone, quite clearly he knows what he is doing. If he chooses to not get involved, his business, if he chooses to step in and do something, his business. Maybe he is just letting us do our own thing so he can judge how we behaved. I have a feeling Heaven is going to be a very lonely place for whoever is lucky enough to get in.

Well that's all very nice easel...  but do you agree or disagree and if you agree what changes do you think need to be made?

Quote:

Cos I'm a brat and I know everything and I talk back Cos I'm not listening to anything you say And if you count to three - one, two, three You'll see it's no emergency You'll see I'm not the enemy Just a prisoner of society

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1632&Itemid=439


Quote:

Most Arabs and most Muslims, as in the west, are tired of conflict, want to focus on economic development and on building their houses, schooling their children and on buying their motor-bikes, cars, mobile phones and hand-held devices, browsing the internet, visiting shopping malls and planning holidays. Against western perceptions, people are actually walking away, mentally and physically, from extremism, conflicts and politics and many will walk away from religion too if it becomes too tainted with these things. They won’t argue, they will just drift away. Most of the rest of the world is getting on with life and increasingly fed up with stories of Muslim fundamentalists, warring tribes and the underlay of rebel movements that seem increasingly intertwined with local gangsters, and warlords, all of which seem to belong more to medieval history books, rather than the 21st century.

 

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islam_and_Australian_values

Placing non-Muslims as second class citizens who are actively discriminated against by the justice system would be a priority. Luckily there is no Caliphate and it is unlikely to reappear. Even Muslims seem reticent to adopt the old ways.

Ok, I'm gonna pray again for everything and everyone again. It's better than sulking.

Grendel wrote on Jan 12^th, 2009 at 4:28am:

What things must Islam do to become acceptable to the rest of the world? 1/ Stop lying to non-Muslims. 2/ Stop trying to be the worlds only religion and way of life. 3/ Respect other religions and beliefs. 4/ Educate its followers. (In reality) 5/ Embrace modernity. 6/ Allow Freedom of Religion.   7/ Be more tolerant and forgiving. 8/ Embrace Democracy. 9/ End barbarism. 10/ Recognise and denounce all terrorism and terrorists. 11/ Abolish Jizya. (and the associated attitudes) 12/ Embrace secularisation. Well there is a dozen to start things off...

"ISLAM must CHANGE"

Grendel,

No criticism of your expressed sentiment, but,
....Pigs might fly!




Grendel,

I direct you to my comments here,

"Israel accused over Gaza wounded"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1231430119/10#10

".....It should be our governments policy [within Australia],
   * to destroy all mosques,
   * deport all imam's,
   * and to deport any [and every] person who claims to practice, and follow, the political philosophy called, ISLAM."

Actually i think PIGS MIGHT FLY was an inappropriate comment.

if i said "Islam will change" then perhaps...  ;D

I note all Muslims flee from this topic...  how unusual.

Quote:

Why not kill yourself then? I mean, when you're dead, you're dead right? That's what atheists think right?

Well you got that arse about face easel, atheists cherish life, and respect life, because we don't treat it as an entrance exam for heaven, but our one go on the ride(of our lives ;) ).

If anyone were to want to die, it would be those who think they have eternal paradise waiting for them, a la, suicide wacko bombers, and those contenders come from the god squad, do they not?

So if you god botherers really believe you have bliss waiting, don't let me hold you back, toodle oo, send us a postcard if you get the chance.

mozzaok wrote on Jan 12^th, 2009 at 9:50pm:

Quote: Why not kill yourself then? I mean, when you're dead, you're dead right? That's what atheists think right? Well you got that arse about face easel, atheists cherish life, and respect life, because we don't treat it as an entrance exam for heaven, but our one go on the ride(of our lives ;) ). If anyone were to want to die, it would be those who think they have eternal paradise waiting for them, a la, suicide wacko bombers, and those contenders come from the god squad, do they not? So if you god botherers really believe you have bliss waiting, don't let me hold you back, toodle oo, send us a postcard if you get the chance.

mozzaok,

It is true, isn't it?

That many, many, atheists believe that we should all,
"Eat drink and be merry, because you will be a long time looking at that [coffin] lid!"

;)

I would really like to see Islam change, and I do hope it can, but when I read the sheer bloody mindedness of the likes of Abu, who should have a far better understanding of modern culture, and freedom, willingly submit any semblance of critical analysis of the errant behaviour that Islam promotes, then I despair for the chances of seeing any positive change in my lifetime.

I think the example of christianity modernising itself, and becoming far more tolerant and liberal, shows us that change is possible amongst religious people, but the people need to lead in calling for that change, the clergy will never want to see a congregation less subjugated by their beliefs.

I also think that we may need to consider controlling Islamic education more.
Children going to school and having their heads filled with the type of propaganda that Abu comes out with, will only create greater division, and more hatred, which is something, that kids at least, should not have forced on them.

mozzaok wrote on Jan 12^th, 2009 at 10:26pm:

I would really like to see Islam change, and I do hope it can, but when I read the sheer bloody mindedness of the likes of Abu, who should have a far better understanding of modern culture, and freedom, willingly submit any semblance of critical analysis of the errant behaviour that Islam promotes, then I despair for the chances of seeing any positive change in my lifetime. I think the example of christianity modernising itself, and becoming far more tolerant and liberal, shows us that change is possible amongst religious people, but the people need to lead in calling for that change, the clergy will never want to see a congregation less subjugated by their beliefs. I also think that we may need to consider controlling Islamic education more. Children going to school and having their heads filled with the type of propaganda that Abu comes out with, will only create greater division, and more hatred, which is something, that kids at least, should not have forced on them.

This is ironic, given that a brief look at your posts and those of your fellow bigots indicate clearly that the only people spreading propaganda, and creating division and hate here are you.

Funny that you talk about controling our 'education'.

Whats that Mozz.....is that you wishing to once again enforce your secular ideals and way of life onto others.

Ironic huh....that you have the nerve to accuse Islam of 'wanting to rule the world'...where here you are, talking about doing just that.

And you wish to 'control' what I teach my child. [mod: attacking the chastity of a girl without proof in Islam is a very serious crime, not to mention quite inappropriate behaviour]...worry about your own children, and I'll worry about mine.

hows that sound?

You are below contempt lestat, and the most ignorant person who posts here.
[mod: although your attack is perhaps justified after what Lestat said, please don't apply it to all Muslims you bigot]

mozzaok wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:42am:

You are below contempt lestat, and the most ignorant person who posts here. In short, you are muslim.

Wow...great response Mozz. Is this the best you can do?

Like I said...you should be worrying about your own children and the values you are teaching them...those of hate and bigotry, before making wild unfounded accusations about others.

It is in fact you that is below contempt Mozz...a bigot and a liar, and you calling others ignorant is nothing short of hilarious.

Yes I am muslim...and proud of it. I wear my beliefs proudly...as a badge of honour.

But what would you know about honour....after all, you have none.

If you were capable of any introspection, you would feel shame for your wilfool ignorance.

You are a contemptible creature, [mod: What Lestat said is completely contrary to Islam, so please keep your bigoted opinions to yourself]

Quote:

But what would you know about honour....after all, you have none.

Not so, I believe that I am the King of the Castle, and you are the dirty rascal.

That was a pretty low blow Lestat.

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 9:59am:

That was a pretty low blow Lestat.

What was low about it FD, and more importantly, how does it differ from this quote from Mozzoak.

"also think that we may need to consider controlling Islamic education more.
Children going to school and having their heads filled with the type of propaganda that Abu comes out with, will only create greater division, and more hatred, which is something, that kids at least, should not have forced on them."

If he's willing to have a go at others about how we raise our children...then his morals, ethics, and how he raises his children becomes fair game.

Oh..right I get it, I forgot, this is another one of your 'you may offend muslims, but do not offend others' set of rules.

Quote:

How bout you teach your daughter to keep her legs closed huh

That's what I was talking about Les. Do I really need to explain it to you?

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 10:28am:

Quote: How bout you teach your daughter to keep her legs closed huh That's what I was talking about Les. Do I really need to explain it to you?

Yet for some reason you choose to ignore this.

"Children going to school and having their heads filled with the type of propaganda that Abu comes out with"

Do I really need to explain it to you FD. Of course not...I'm guessing your very much aware of your double standards.

So how bout you go shove your advice where the sun don't shine huh...and while your their you can pull your head out as well. :)

Les I've had the same argument with Mozz many times. Not once did I feel the need to make it personal, or bring his family into it, or call his daughter a slut. It's a low blow. You should know better.

Amadd wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 11:12am:

You may as well let him show his true colours FD. You should hear them when they get in a group together. Disrespect for the infidel is the name of the game.

Given some of your posts directed at Abu, I wouldn't go talking about respect if I were you.

This is what you said Lestat:


Quote:

How bout you teach your daughter to keep her legs closed huh

Quote:

With a bit of luck, they might not be knocked up at the age of 15, with a number of potential fathers to choose from, with yourself wondering what it was you did wrong. At that moment..remember this post.

Do you really not see the problem with that?

Are we back to the problem that any criticism of Islam is a personal attack on you, which justifies whatever response you dream up?

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 12:12pm:

Right Les, you didn't call her a slut, you just said she should keep her legs shut because she sleeps around and will end up pregnant at 15 and not knowing who the father is. ::) ::) ::)

Well, in western society this is an all to regular occurance....this is advice that I hope he takes...you for that matter.

However...you said I called her a slut, and still you are unable to show where I did this.

Where did I say that 'she sleeps around'?

here is my quote again FD...how bout you try and read it again, this time a little slower.

"And you wish to 'control' what I teach my child. How bout you teach your daughter to keep her legs closed huh...worry about your own children, and I'll worry about mine."

Seems you have trouble reading my post FD, it is no surprise that my point has gone right over your head.

Oh...look, here comes boofhead the clown....right on que.

Were you referring to an impending immaculate conception? I can see how that would lead to confusion over who the father is.....

::) ::) ::)

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 12:21pm:

Were you referring to an impending immaculate conception? I can see how that would lead to confusion over who the father is..... ::) ::) ::)

Just as I thought, no where did I call her a slut.

Any other lies you'd like to share?

Lestat, I could write you are a lustful vile creature, and you could quote me as writing you are a lustful vile creature.

I could also write that you perve on women and leer at them, and have a hard time controlling your sexual urges, and it would have the exact same meaning, without using the same words.

Idiot.

easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 12:31pm:

Lestat, I could write you are a lustful vile creature, and you could quote me as writing you are a lustful vile creature. I could also write that you perve on women and leer at them, and have a hard time controlling your sexual urges, and it would have the exact same meaning, without using the same words. Idiot.

You can write whatever you like easel. lol...I perve on woman. Yes..of course I do. Feel better?

it is telling that you all come to Mozzoak's defence, yet remain silent to the regularly vile posts which are directed at Abu.

When we muslims are insulted almost daily...not a word is mentioned...yet here you all are squaling like b(tches when the shoe is on the other foot.

Though i'm not really surprised...I've come to expect this sort of double standards and hypocricy.

Don't bother easel, I don't think there's any point.


Quote:

When we muslims are insulted almost daily...not a word is mentioned...yet here you all are squaling like b(tches when the shoe is on the other foot.

Like I said, Les is incapable of distinguishing a criticism of Islam and calling someone's daughter a slut. This is the problem with Islam - it makes criticism of religion one of the worst crimes.

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 12:39pm:

Don't bother easel, I don't think there's any point.

Thats how we feel about you Freediver.....now your beginning to understand.

Islams future is in trouble, you can only burn so many bridges before you cannot come back.

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 12:39pm:

Don't bother easel, I don't think there's any point. Quote: When we muslims are insulted almost daily...not a word is mentioned...yet here you all are squaling like b(tches when the shoe is on the other foot. Like I said, Les is incapable of distinguishing a criticism of Islam and calling someone's daughter a slut. This is the problem with Islam - it makes criticism of religion one of the worst crimes.

And as usual, Freediver is happy for people to attack muslim children and the way we raise them, but squeals like a hypocritical b(tch he is when someone makes similar insults to a poster, who ironically just finished insulting another poster in a very similar way.

you keep saying if freediver, however, doesn't make it right. If you are willing to insult musilms and Islam, then be aware, that your own culture, way of life, and morals (or lack of) will also be attacked and insulted.

If you don't like the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

This thread title should be changed to- ALL RELIGIONS MUST CHANGE

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 12:39pm:

Like I said, Les is incapable of distinguishing a criticism of Islam and calling someone's daughter a slut. This is the problem with Islam - it makes criticism of religion one of the worst crimes.

mozzaok wrote on Jan 12^th, 2009 at 10:26pm:

Children going to school and having their heads filled with the type of propaganda that Abu comes out with, will only create greater division, and more hatred, which is something, that kids at least, should not have forced on them.

this is not a criticism of islam, it is an attack and insult directed at all muslims, and he even names Abu...making it very much personal.

Once again Freediver, you are pathetically attempting to hide behind what you believe to be your right to insult muslims....however, once again i have exposed your nonsense for what it is.

You can argue that insulting and abusing muslims is your right all you like...however, if this is so, then I to have the right to insult and abuse you and your culture (or lack of it).

This is a good example of what must change about Islam - hypersentivity to criticism of religion, using it to justify real attacks and taking everything a step lower, trying to undermine freedom of speech by equating criticism of religion with personal insult. It is an attack on the very fabric of our society.


Quote:

And as usual, Freediver is happy for people to attack muslim children and the way we raise them, but squeals like a hypocritical b(tch he is when someone makes similar insults to a poster, who ironically just finished insulting another poster in a very similar way.

Lestat, I don't know how many times I will have to explain this to you. I have had the same discussion with Mozz myself. I was in your position of arguing against his attacks on religion. The difference is that I did not use his opinion to try to excuse calling his daughter a slut. Not just because it would make me look like an intolerant bigot and undermine my argument, but because that crosses a line of what is acceptable and unacceptable. A line you don't seem to be capable of seeing, [mod: Your continued attempts at relating this inappropriate comment back to something Islamic is just pathetic]


Quote:

You can argue that insulting and abusing muslims is your right all you like...however, if this is so, then I to have the right to insult and abuse you and your culture (or lack of it).

See Les this is what you don't get. Criticising Islam is not abusing Muslims. You can't use it to jsutify calling someone's daughter a slut. Your hypersensitivity to criticism of religion is your problem. Don't try to make it ours.


Quote:

If you are willing to insult musilms and Islam

Undersrttand this Les. Islam is fair game. People can criticise it all they want. Learn to live with it. Other religions managed.

wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 1:04pm:

This thread title should be changed to- ALL RELIGIONS MUST CHANGE

When there is a methodist, buddhist, baptist, or jew on a bus with a timer and C4 I might agree.

Until then, only one religion needs to change. But it wont. It will only respect, and respond to the same brutality it attacks with. Islam thinks that 'tolerance' is for wimps, so it gives none. There is only one response for such thinking.

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 1:13pm:

This is a good example of what must change about Islam - hypersentivity to criticism of religion, using it to justify real attacks and taking everything a step lower, trying to undermine freedom of speech by equating criticism of religion with personal insult. It is an attack on the very fabric of our society. Quote: And as usual, Freediver is happy for people to attack muslim children and the way we raise them, but squeals like a hypocritical b(tch he is when someone makes similar insults to a poster, who ironically just finished insulting another poster in a very similar way. Lestat, I don't know how many times I will have to explain this to you. I have had the same discussion with Mozz myself. I was in your position of arguing against his attacks on religion. The difference is that I did not use his opinion to try to excuse calling his daughter a slut. Not just because it would make me look like an intolerant bigot and undermine my argument, but because that crosses a line of what is acceptable and unacceptable. A line you don't seem to be capable of seeing, because Islam makes criticism of religion a far greater crime.

This is a good example of the double standards and hypocricy of our resident Islamophobes...and until they actually address this they will not be taken seriously by any reasonably minded person.

This is the second time you have stated that I called his daughter a slut, and I'll ask you again, show me where I have done this.

I attacked his culture, his morals which encourage young girls to go out, drink, enjoy life, enjoy their freedom, and which often results in teenage sexual activities, this is a fact, this is your culture, this is what it promotes.

I never called her a slut, and despite  your repeating the same lies again and again, the fact that you refuse or are unable to highlight where I have called her a slut, exposes your lies for what they are.

If you are to attack religon, then you have to be willing to also have your own beliefs/culture attacked....

You can explain it all you like Freediver...quite frankly you are wrong. Yes I know you believe  you are right, but you are not. An insult is an insult, no mater who the victim. Their is not one set of rules for muslims, and another for all others...though I am certain that you wish (or believe) there is.

Besides...I have shown clearly that his post was not an attack on islam...is was a personal insult against muslims...a fact that you seem unable or unwilling to address.

Calanen wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 1:15pm:

wrote on Jan 13th, 2009 at 1:04pm: This thread title should be changed to- ALL RELIGIONS MUST CHANGE When there is a methodist, buddhist, baptist, or jew on a bus with a timer and C4 I might agree. Until then, only one religion needs to change. But it wont. It will only respect, and respond to the same brutality it attacks with. Islam thinks that 'tolerance' is for wimps, so it gives none. There is only one response for such thinking.

C4 is a no no...but cluster bombs, white prosphorous, and cruise missiles are all ok, as long as its jews/Christians doing the bombing.

Lestat wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 1:25pm:

Calanen wrote on Jan 13th, 2009 at 1:15pm: wrote on Jan 13th, 2009 at 1:04pm: This thread title should be changed to- ALL RELIGIONS MUST CHANGE When there is a methodist, buddhist, baptist, or jew on a bus with a timer and C4 I might agree. Until then, only one religion needs to change. But it wont. It will only respect, and respond to the same brutality it attacks with. Islam thinks that 'tolerance' is for wimps, so it gives none. There is only one response for such thinking. C4 is a no no...but cluster bombs, white prosphorous, and cruise missiles are all ok, as long as its jews/Christians doing the bombing.

Of course it is ok when use in self defence and targeting militants shooting at you or terrorists trying to self explode amongst you.

Quote:

This is a good example of the double standards and hypocricy of our resident Islamophobes...and until they actually address this they will not be taken seriously by any reasonably minded person.

Lestat, it has been addressed. It is not a double standard. The standard has been explained to you time and time again. Criticism of Islam is not a personal attack on you. It is up to you to deal with it maturely, not use it as an excuse to call someone's daughter a slut.


Quote:

If you are to attack religon, then you have to be willing to also have your own beliefs/culture attacked....

Duh. It is not your ciriticism of our culture that is the problem.


Quote:

You can explain it all you like Freediver...quite frankly you are wrong.

No, you are wrong lestat. I am right, both in terms of what is acceptable on this forum and what is acceptable in society at large. Only Muslim societies consider criticism of Islam a greater crime that calling someone's daughter a slut.


Quote:

An insult is an insult, no mater who the victim.

Correct - who, not what. Islam cannot be a victim.


Quote:

Their is not one set of rules for muslims, and another for all others...

What I am trying to get you to understand is that the same standard is being applied. You juyst don;t udnerstand the standard.

Now stop making excuses for your immature behaviour and leanr how to discuss these things maturely.

Quote:

As for the rest of your dribble, my point still stands, instead of attacking others and the way we raise our children, perhaps Mozz should worry about how he raises his own.

That's called 'Tu Quoque' which is fallacious argument. I set out what it is in another thread.

It's the OH YEAH WELL WHAT ABOUT YOU and the:

1) Aborigines;

2) Economy;

3) Capitalism

4) Iraq

5) Crusades;

6) Inquisition;

7) The way your society lives, decadence, drugs, women etc etc..

But what you dont understand is we let women choose what they want to do. We dont seek to control what women wear, or who they see, or what they do. This is a free society. Women are not breeding stock that must be kept locked up in a pen. They can wear what they want, be with who they want, do what they want.

Islam on the other hand, threatens women with violence should they ever go against what the ummah wants for them. Honor killings, rape, acid attacks, beatings. That's how 'voluntary' covering up in burquas, niqabs and hijabs are.

With any luck, all these silly beliefs is supernatural beings that have a chosen few, have ridiculious laws and require prostration and grovelling will disappear.

Mozza, I'm sure you are raising your children with love and care and intelligence.

Quote:

Quote: How bout you teach your daughter to keep her legs closed huh Quote: With a bit of luck, they might not be knocked up at the age of 15, with a number of potential fathers to choose from, with yourself wondering what it was you did wrong.

Ok lestat...  what one word colloquial term would you use to describe the behaviour/person you just described?

BTW Lestat... pregnancy of Australian women at 15 is not common at all.

just another lie from the great brain-washed.

locutius wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 3:28pm:

With any luck, all these silly beliefs is supernatural beings that have a chosen few, have ridiculious laws and require prostration and grovelling will disappear. Mozza, I'm sure you are raising your children with love and care and intelligence.

What are you suggesting Locuitus? That only non-muslims raise their children with love and care.

Your beginning to regularly express your bigotry, I take it that the truth always comes out.

Lestat, how dumb are you?

Anyone with slight intelligence would be able to see locutius was writing to mozzaok in reference to your slur against him and the way non-Muslims raise their kids and he was saying he is sure that mozza is doing a good job with his children. He did not write in that post the Muslims raise their children wrong.

Fool.

I recall you writing that before you became so religious that you used to drink, take drugs, have lots of sex (uglies I bet) and other assorted things.

Are you saying your upbringing turned you in to the horrible person (by your standards) that you turned out to be? Do you hate your parents?

Why would mozza want to meet you? You're an idiot.

Also Lestat, by your own admission, you are perverted. You have written that all males would have a hard time with their impulses when on a beach with women in swim wear. And you are male. You are wrong about your assumption about everyone however.

Lestat, you are an idiotic pervert.

Or maybe you are anti-Muslim and fake it to try and make Islam look bad. If that is the case, pretty smart, it's working. You are helping make Muslims look bad.

Lestat wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:43pm:

locutius wrote on Jan 13th, 2009 at 3:28pm: With any luck, all these silly beliefs is supernatural beings that have a chosen few, have ridiculious laws and require prostration and grovelling will disappear. Mozza, I'm sure you are raising your children with love and care and intelligence. What are you suggesting Locuitus? That only non-muslims raise their children with love and care. Your beginning to regularly express your bigotry, I take it that the truth always comes out.

How did you come to that conclusion with what I said Lestat?

Being called a bigot by you lacks complete credibility. Not because it may not be true according to your terms of reference. But because you've shown yourself to be one as well.

You've also done a fair bit of name calling today but using the word spastic is particularly disrespectful.

gee Lestat...  the word was depraved... ROTFLMAO  not good for pedants to be caught out eh.

[mod: The fact he brought someone elses family into the discussion in a derogative way is no invitation for you to do the same, exercise some common sense]

Oh I note you have as yet run away from my question...  oh dear proved you disingenuos and a liar did it?

Gee, Lestat is really letting it all hang out tonight. Why don;t you say what you really think Les?

Great, Abu's turned up. Hopefully he can talk some sense into Les about the whole 'your daughter's a slut' thing.

This thread is on the verge of being closed. Slander against anyone's family will NOT be tolerated here, by any side.

Just to make it quite clear, to the Muslim who slandered the chastity of a girl and to the bigots who tried to label it as the epitome of Islamicness, Islam STRICTLY forbids slandering of the chastity of a girl, and it is a crime, punishable by 80 lashes. There is no room for such behaviour in Islam, and any Muslim who does this, is clearly acting outside of Islamic dictates. It's not surprising though that the bigots here claim it to actually be an Islamic practise.

Actually, it's a practise quite common in Australian society, and in fact many Aussie males use expressions like slut, wench, whore etc. to refer to every single member of the fairer sex. I've witnessed this in many different varied social circles amongst Australian society, so don't try to deny it exiists, you all know it does. And today with the excessive focus on freedom of speech, Western society really has no problem with it anyway. However Islam is the complete opposite, it raised the women to a high rank of respect and honour, and slandering her chastity is a great transgression against her, her family and God.

I am still going through and deleting the references to this inappropriate incident, but I am thinking to just delete entire posts referring to it, as they contain no other benefit than to slander. Unless anyone has a compelling reason for why they should be kept.

There is always value in leaving it there so people can see exactly what it is that is inappropriate. Otherwise Les might play the innocent victim once the evidence is gone. I always like to get people to at least concede they are wrong before deleting everything. It's more important to get people to understand and accept the rules than to hide the inappropriate content.

That would be up to mozzaok, since he's the victim of it. So if he agrees, then I have no problem with it, although any bigoted attacks that attempt to equate this with standard Islamic belief will definitely be modified/deleted.

Well there should be some fairness here - what about the comments Easel made in regard to Lestat.

Obviously Easel you have no regard for people's personal issues to bring them up and throw them in their face on a public board.  It doesn't matter if a person talks about themselves - that's their prerogative - but what you've written is childish, personal and very very nasty.

locutius wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:57pm:

How did you come to that conclusion with what I said Lestat?

Just asking a question Locuitus. Your post made clear implications...you can correct me if you think I am wrong.


locutius wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:57pm:

Being called a bigot by you lacks complete credibility. Not because it may not be true according to your terms of reference. But because you've shown yourself to be one as well.

Your correct with one thing..doesn't matter what I call you. Your posts reveal these things far more efficiently then any names I may or may not call you.


locutius wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:57pm:

You've also done a fair bit of name calling today but using the word spastic is particularly disrespectful.

If it looks like an apple, and it smells like an apple....

Besides, if being disrespectul is something you find offensive, then its amazing that you haven't spoken up earlier...oh right, depends who's doing the 'disrespecting' hey.

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:25pm:

That would be up to mozzaok, since he's the victim of it. So if he agrees, then I have no problem with it, although any bigoted attacks that attempt to equate this with standard Islamic belief will definitely be modified/deleted.

Mozzoak isn't the victim of anything. I suggest you go back and all read my post again.

Mozzoak attacked muslims and the way we raise our children...I then used an 'off the cuff' remark that insinuates that Mozzoak should worry about raising his own children, before wanting to 'control' how we muslims raise ours.

I don't know Mozzoak, I don't even know know if he has a daughter, let alone what she is like, hence, it is ludicrous to believe or even imply that I was calling his daughter a slut.

Really, it doesn't surprise me that the resident bigots here have taken this and run with it, but really, its ludicrous some of the accusations that have been made in this thread.

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:13pm:

... Just to make it quite clear, to the Muslim who slandered the chastity of a girl and to the bigots who tried to label it as the epitome of Islamicness, ...

Abu, you missed on muslim bigots in that phrase.

mantra, if you had a half way decent memory, you would recall Lestat saying he has partaken in all the events he attributes to others as wrong, and even within his last revisit to this website, he has told people they are in the wrong in regards to behaviour which he himself presents.

He is a hypocrite of the biggest order who hates Western culture. He makes many a Muslim look bad, because he is so vocal about his cause, and would cause many people who are not exposed frequently to Muslims to think they are all like this.

Look at what Bin Laden did for Muslims the world over.

Quite clearly they are all not like him.

easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

Lestat, how dumb are you?

Obviously a fair bit lower then the lofty hieghts you have achieved.


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

Anyone with slight intelligence would be able to see locutius was writing to mozzaok in reference to your slur against him and the way non-Muslims raise their kids and he was saying he is sure that mozza is doing a good job with his children. He did not write in that post the Muslims raise their children wrong.

His post made clear implications..hence I asked the question. You know...questions can often clarify a position.

If this is not what he meant, then he can just say so, he has been given that opportunity.


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

I recall you writing that before you became so religious that you used to drink, take drugs, have lots of sex (uglies I bet) and other assorted things.

lol...yeah, all uglies alright. :)

I guess I was Australian back then hey...you would of been proud easel.


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

Are you saying your upbringing turned you in to the horrible person (by your standards) that you turned out to be? Do you hate your parents?

I'm a horrible person am I? Do you know me? Sorry...I must of missed that time we met..could you refresh my memory.

Oh...I get it, your slinging meaningless abuse and insults..and sadly enough its not even amusing or witty.

Carry on though if it makes you feel good....


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

Why would mozza want to meet you? You're an idiot.

Of course we're all so brave hiding behind our keyboards aren't we...would be interesting to see if he was as brave in person.

I somehow doubt it. :)



easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

Also Lestat, by your own admission, you are perverted. You have written that all males would have a hard time with their impulses when on a beach with women in swim wear. And you are male. You are wrong about your assumption about everyone however.

Im perverted by my own admission now am I? lol...

so every guy that has ever looked at a girl at the beach, is now, according to Easel a pervert.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom...BWAHAHA


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

Lestat, you are an idiotic pervert.

Go on...say it one more time. I know you want to. :D:D:D


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:56pm:

Or maybe you are anti-Muslim and fake it to try and make Islam look bad. If that is the case, pretty smart, it's working. You are helping make Muslims look bad.

lol...yeah that must be it. You are all a bunch of rednecks speading hate and lies...cause I, me, make muslims look bad.

Gee...its all my fault isn't it.

Lestat wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:36pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 13th, 2009 at 8:25pm: That would be up to mozzaok, since he's the victim of it. So if he agrees, then I have no problem with it, although any bigoted attacks that attempt to equate this with standard Islamic belief will definitely be modified/deleted. Mozzoak isn't the victim of anything. I suggest you go back and all read my post again. Mozzoak attacked muslims and the way we raise our children...I then used an 'off the cuff' remark that insinuates that Mozzoak should worry about raising his own children, before wanting to 'control' how we muslims raise ours. I don't know Mozzoak, I don't even know know if he has a daughter, let alone what she is like, hence, it is ludicrous to believe or even imply that I was calling his daughter a slut. Really, it doesn't surprise me that the resident bigots here have taken this and run with it, but really, its ludicrous some of the accusations that have been made in this thread.

See, it's started already...

I haven't paid much attention to the Islam forum until recently Easel, but those comments were still very personal and unnecessary.

I can understand why Lestat gets overheated at times - there is just one attack after another from a few anti-muslim posters on this board and I don't know how Abu is so patient.

People whinge about the moderation, but why shouldn't there be strict moderation here if Abu & Malik choose it.  Why should one group of people be pounded constantly and criticised mercilessly?

Lestat all those drugs from the old days must have wrecked your memory. I don't need to go find old threads where you have written all men leer at women at beaches and they need to be covered up for protection, because I remember it, and I'm sure others do too.

You are male, therefore a man (by definition, not in a social context). By your reasoning, you leer at women and they need to be covered up. You must be a sexual predator.

We had this discussion previously. Go get some Omega 3's, I hear they can help with the creation of new brain cells.

easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:38pm:

mantra, if you had a half way decent memory, you would recall Lestat saying he has partaken in all the events he attributes to others as wrong,

Yes, I did admit to once doing what most here believe to be totally acceptable Australian behaviour. And yes, I believe it was wrong, and the best thing I ever did was stop doing what has been described here numerously as being 'Australian'. Drinking, partying, etc, etc.

So whats your point again?


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:38pm:

and even within his last revisit to this website, he has told people they are in the wrong in regards to behaviour which he himself presents.

And what behaviour would that be? How bout you provide examples?


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:38pm:

He is a hypocrite of the biggest order who hates Western culture.

lol..hate western culture do I. And how did you come to this conclusions...or are you just using your bigotry to stereotype the big bad muslim again?

As for being a hypocrite..sorry, but my posts speak for themselves, and I am very consistent in my beliefs and opinions. A pity the same can't be said about others, who flip flop between opinions and positions, and are continuously rude and abusive to others, yet squeal like b(tches when they get some of their own medicine.

But I'm curios easel..please do tell, how am I a hypocrite?


easel wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:38pm:

He makes many a Muslim look bad, because he is so vocal about his cause, and would cause many people who are not exposed frequently to Muslims to think they are all like this. Look at what Bin Laden did for Muslims the world over. Quite clearly they are all not like him.

lol..yeah thats it, all the hate, bigotry, and lies posted on this site about muslims, is all because of me, and how I make muslims look bad.

How bout you cut the crap  easel, you red necked bigots hated muslims long before I posted, and you'll be spreading the same crap long after I'm gone.

Your just upset that your finally getting your own medicine. Abu has been awfully patient with you, and I am unsure how he does it. All the abuse, insults that he cops and not one person says a thing.

And now your upset that you are being treated like the animals you are...hence your meaningless rant.

mantra wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:46pm:

I haven't paid much attention to the Islam forum until recently Easel, but those comments were still very personal and unnecessary. I can understand why Lestat gets overheated at times - there is just one attack after another from a few anti-muslim posters on this board and I don't know how Abu is so patient. People whinge about the moderation, but why shouldn't there be strict moderation here if Abu & Malik choose it.  Why should one group of people be pounded constantly and criticised mercilessly?

Yes I agree, It is real eye opener to see how muslim biggots attack other religions or ideologies but cry victimisation when the same is done to them.