http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7pPq1C5s0SY

Is there any other kind of Rabbi, aside from a Jewish Rabbi?

That to one side - there are a whole heap of ultra orthodox looking Jews that support Iran etc and went to the Holocaust denial congress in Iran.

Nobody said they don't have crazy jews as well as crazy islamists.

And yes, Zionism is a problematic issue, but not nearly as problematic as Islam.
We are not under attack from Zionism, we are under attack from Islamism.

Islam has made itself into a massive problem, and it has got to the point where the probability of a peaceful resolution is getting unimaginable.

Let's see a muslim stand in the middle of a street and speak out for what they truly believe, and not for some indoctrinated bs.
Not even muslims here have the guts to do that.

Yes, very good point Ammad.
If any muslim did similiar to that jewish guy, and denounced Islamism like he denounces Zionism, then he certainly could not look forward to a safe and prosperous future.

Quote:

Islam has made itself into a massive problem, and it has got to the point where the probability of a peaceful resolution is getting unimaginable.

No, it was always a problem, but a massive problem somewhere else.

We made it a massive problem HERE by bringing in loads of Islamic immigrants, and we have only ourselves to blame. More importantly, we continue to have our clueless apologist selves to blame for not striking hard to stop it.

Calanen wrote on Jan 11^th, 2009 at 9:26am:

No, it was always a problem, but a massive problem somewhere else.

Islam has always had bloody borders. And now it borders us. Stand by for more isntances of Benbrinka and his Flaming Jihadis.

mozzaok wrote on Jan 11^th, 2009 at 8:28am:

Yes, very good point Ammad. If any muslim did similiar to that jewish guy, and denounced Islamism like he denounces Zionism, then he certainly could not look forward to a safe and prosperous future.

actually that's not a good point at all

if you denounce zionism in its current context you are denouncing an unjust system, some would say a system that enables terrorism.

there are many muslims who have stood up and denounced terrorism and denounced unjust actions in muslim societies, and denounced the ideologies that support terrorism. we talked about this before Amadd

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there are many muslims who have stood up and denounced terrorism and denounced unjust actions in muslim societies, and denounced the ideologies that support terrorism.

How many Muslims do you see denouncing the stoning of an unfaithful child bride to death? Or the destruction of democracy? Or making non-Muslims second class citizens?

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 5:16pm:

Quote: there are many muslims who have stood up and denounced terrorism and denounced unjust actions in muslim societies, and denounced the ideologies that support terrorism. How many Muslims do you see denouncing the stoning of an unfaithful child bride to death? Or the destruction of democracy? Or making non-Muslims second class citizens?

what just randomly on the street? there are plenty of people who condemn these things, you just have to find them. as previously discussed, they don't really get any air time, so you have to actually look at muslim associations and communities to see what they've denounced

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there are plenty of people who condemn these things

True. Like me. But how many Muslims?


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so you have to actually look at muslim associations and communities to see what they've denounced

I asked some Muslims. According to Abu, stoning an unfaithful bride to death is justice, destroying democracy is inevitable, death for apostates is fair, and non-Muslims should be second class citizens. He claims this is mainstream Islam.

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 5:26pm:

Quote: there are plenty of people who condemn these things True. Like me. But how many Muslims?

muslims are people too- I was referring to muslims. obviously


Quote:

I asked some Muslims. According to Abu, stoning an unfaithful bride to death is justice, destroying democracy is inevitable, death for apostates is fair, and non-Muslims should be second class citizens. He claims this is mainstream Islam.

no you asked one muslim.

like I said- try researching the opinions of muslim leaders, sheikhs, associations etc

check out affinity intercultural as well whose founder I believe is muslim

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no you asked one muslim

I also asked Malik. And Lestat is welcome to respond as well, though he tends to avoid these details. I directed a few questions at Abu Khadichi and the other less frequent visitors. I also had some random person, most likely a Muslim, edit the wiki on the apostasy issue. I think I brought some of these issues up on MV.

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2009 at 5:35pm:

Quote: no you asked one muslim I also asked Malik. And Lestat is welcome to respond as well, though he tends to avoid these details. I directed a few questions at Abu Khadichi and the other less frequent visitors. I also had some random person, mostlikely a Muslim, edit the wiki on the apostasy issue. I think I brought some of these issues up on MV.

so you asked 2 max 3 muslims?

what was the response on MV? links?

again- to bring it back to point you asked where you hear people denouncing these things- and I told you

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so you asked 2 max 3 muslims?

At least three. Obviously as you get more, the specific questions I asked are going to vary. The wiki is open to everyone to edit. You don't even have to register. I have posted links to it on many forums.


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again- to bring it back to point you asked where you hear people denouncing these things- and I told you

You were very vague about 'these things'. I'm pretty sure you would only find Muslims denouncing unIslamic injustice. They would remain silent on the Islamic injustice. That has been my experience. Getting them to comment on Islamic injustice is like pulling teeth.

what do you view as islamic injustice- just to clarify

Sharia law, or more specifically those aspects of sharia law which are injust. The wiki covers pretty well those aspects which I am aware of, though I am sure there are plenty more that the Muslims I have met 'failed to mention'. Abu for example has been refusing to discuss these issues with me on the grounds that they will contribute to the wiki.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islam_and_Australian_values

mozzaok,


Quote:

If any muslim did similiar to that jewish guy, and denounced Islamism like he denounces Zionism, then he certainly could not look forward to a safe and prosperous future.

Shows you obviously don't follow the situation closely. Many Jews have been slaughtered/attacked by their fellow Jews for daring to criticise Zionism, or even daring to tell the true story of history, instead of the Zionist revisionist fantasy. And don't forget Yitzak Rabin, assassinated for merely talking to Arafat, was Arafat assassinated for doing the same?

Btw, this sect of Orthodox Jews mostly live in the USA, so that's probably why they are fairly safe from reprisal by Zionists.