I purchased a Talon (Husqvarna) whipper snipper (line trimmer) yesterday afternoon. It stopped working after 10 minutes of use. I called the seller this morning and they gave me the number for a repair shop. The repair shop said there would be at least a 2 1/2 week wait to get it fixed. I called the seller again and asked if I could get a refeund or replacement instead. They refused. They gave me the number for Husqvarna in Sydney. I called them and they gave me the number for another repair shop. I called them and they said they don't deal with Husqvarna any more. They said that Husqvarna used to have a 14 day replacement policy and that previously they would not have even been allowed to repair a product that had only been used for 10 minutes because of that replacement policy.

I bought a Husqvarna sewing machine a few years ago and had a similar problem when I lost a basic foot.  It was impossible to replace it as they had just stopped stocking parts.  Fortunately I found this little old shop that happen to salvage second hand parts from other brands and I found one that fitted.

My electric whippersnipper is a Poulan Line Cutter - it cost $40, 20 years ago and it is perfect.  You can still get parts after all this time, although I haven't needed any.

From memory at the time I was hunting for this part Husqvarna had changed hands many times over the years - but this is the same with many of our modern products - they are next to useless once something breaks and no-one knows where you can get anything anymore.

bad luck F/D.

I'ld go for the money back guarantee

mantra wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 11:41am:

I bought a Husqvarna sewing machine a few years ago and had a similar problem when I lost a basic foot.  It was impossible to replace it as they had just stopped stocking parts.  Fortunately I found this little old shop that happen to salvage second hand parts from other brands and I found one that fitted.

You should do a Captain Jean Luc Picard and just take it to the Husqvarna shop and say "Make it sew"

I was actually tempted to turn up and demand a refund in person. Then if they refused, sit outside the store and attempt to start the thing every time a new customer turned up. It would look great sitting on the footpath beside the box it came in. Fortunately my time is worth more than that.

I had a closer look at the problem. The spark plug does not appear to be sparking. I got out the multimeter and it could pick up 40V AC across it. Apparently it is supposed to be 18000 V, but the multimeter may not pick that up anyway because it is so brief. The resistance across the plug is 12kV. Is that normal? Anyway, if it is the CDI coil (powers the plug) that is the problem, a replacement costs almost as much as a new whipper snipper, according to the repair shop. Yet they are still obligued to repair it instead of replacing the whole thing - he said that just after suggesting it is a 'throw away' item because the part costs nearly as much as the whole thing. I suspect their strategy is to make the warranty worthless by making it too much of a hassle for the customer to get it fixed. Even if you ignore the hassle for nthe customer, it would still have to cost them more to repair than to replace it.

Consumers are entitled to a refund for faulty goods if they request it. They do not have to wait for the goods to be repaired. If you insist on a refund, they have to give it to you. Dont know which state you are in, but if they dont do it in NSW, you can bring a claim in the consumer claims tribunal. Dept of Fair Trading is pretty helpful as to how to bring your claim and so on.

Quote:

Consumers are entitled to a refund for faulty goods if they request it.

Not according to the QLD government consumer people I spoke to. They said, repair, replacement or refund by by 'mutual agreement'.

I do'nt think many businesses would last on that basis of operation.

It was just a cheap one.

http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=103739&catId=100567&tid=100008&p=2&title=Your+shopping+rights


http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/OFT/oftweb.nsf/Web+Pages/3DBA0A69ADBC32744A2573C50080F7EB?OpenDocument

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 10:03pm:

Quote: Consumers are entitled to a refund for faulty goods if they request it. Not according to the QLD government consumer people I spoke to. They said, repair, replacement or refund by by 'mutual agreement'.

Well they are FOS - maybe under Qld law, but under Federal law, you are entitled to a full refund. So bring your claim under Federal law if they wont ante up.

I just spoke to the fair trading people again. They confirmed that it is by mutual agreement, which implies negotiation. However she considered that the three week waiting period and the hassle of driving around for such a cheap item made it pretty unreasoanble for the retailer to insist on a repair. Anyway, I have to wait 7 working days after sending the written request before lodging the complaint. Hoepfully he will just offer me the refund rather than getting involved.

freediver wrote on Jan 9^th, 2009 at 5:34pm:

I just spoke to the fair trading people again. They confirmed that it is by mutual agreement, which implies negotiation.

And I am telling you they are FOS. Even if Queensland law says that , Federal law overrules it.

The Trade Practices Act says that you have a claim for any good not of merchantable quality:

TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 74D

Actions in respect of goods of unmerchantable quality
            (1)  Where:

                    (a)  a corporation, in trade or commerce, supplies goods manufactured by the corporation to another person who acquires the goods for re‑supply;

                    (b)  a person (whether or not the person who acquired the goods from the corporation) supplies the goods (otherwise than by way of sale by auction) to a consumer;

                    (c)  the goods are not of merchantable quality; and

                    (d)  the consumer or a person who acquires the goods from, or derives title to the goods through or under, the consumer suffers loss or damage by reason that the goods are not of merchantable quality;

the corporation is liable to compensate the consumer or that other person for the loss or damage and the consumer or that other person may recover the amount of the compensation by action against the corporation in a court of competent jurisdiction.

            (2)  Subsection (1) does not apply:

                    (a)  if the goods are not of merchantable quality by reason of:

                             (i)  an act or default of any person (not being the corporation or a servant or agent of the corporation); or

                            (ii)  a cause independent of human control;

                           occurring after the goods have left the control of the corporation;

                    (b)  as regards defects specifically drawn to the consumer's attention before the making of the contract for the supply of the goods to the consumer; or

                    (c)  if the consumer examines the goods before that contract is made, as regards defects that the examination ought to reveal.

            (3)  Goods of any kind are of merchantable quality within the meaning of this section if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought as it is reasonable to expect having regard to:

                    (a)  any description applied to the goods by the corporation;

                    (b)  the price received by the corporation for the goods (if relevant); and

                    (c)  all the other relevant circumstances.
What are my obligations?
When you sell goods you must make certain that they fulfil certain conditions and warranties that are implied under the TPA.


http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/8818


Quote:

You must be sure that goods: are of merchantable quality—that is, goods need to reach a basic level of quality given the price of the goods and any description that is provided with the goods are fit for the purpose or job that the consumer described to you or that are self-evident match any description or sample given to the consumer whether in promotional material, over the phone, in person, on a website or on labelling or packaging are free from defects and faults. You must also be sure that any goods you sell have no debt or financing owed on them so the consumer can have free title to the goods. If the goods you have sold do not fulfil any of these conditions then the consumer may be entitled to a refund from you on return of the goods. If the goods have been partially consumed the consumer may be entitled to a refund depending on the circumstances and the extent to which the goods have been consumed. Consumers can choose an alternative remedy to a refund. In these circumstances you may want to offer an exchange, a credit note or to repair the goods. If the goods being returned have had a fair amount of use then you may be entitled to provide a partial refund only or to repair the product instead. This will depend on the circumstances of the sale and return and if the use of the goods has affected the fault. You have the right to ask for proof of purchase from the consumer, for example, a receipt or credit record. You are not obliged to provide a refund, credit or exchange if a consumer has: changed their mind, decided they no longer want the goods or just don’t like them, or found that goods are the wrong size or colour found they can buy the same or similar goods elsewhere for a cheaper price examined goods before buying them and should have seen any fault at that time had a defect drawn to their attention before they purchased goods, for example, when goods are clearly labelled as seconds or faulty.

That's Federal law and it overrules Queensland law, whatever Queensland fair trading thinks. Ask them at Fair Trading why they think that State law overrules s 74D of the Trade Practices Act next time you speak to them.

Muppets.

Can you quote me the bit that says I can demand a refund?

I tried a new spark plug. It didn't work. However the new spark plug did not have the 12kOhm resistance across the centre pin, so I don't know what is going on there.

FD - you're going to have to make a pest of yourself with this one.  Go back - demand a refund in a loud forceful voice so others can hear you and say that you will immediately lodge an official complaint with Fair Trading if they don't give it to you.  If that doesn't work - contact the State Ombudsman and lodge a complaint over the phone.  Someone will eventually listen to you - but try and sound as though you really mean it.

Calanen is quite right.  You can't take no for an answer.  They are either ignorant or calling your bluff.  

Just say there is state legislation that states that a consumer has the right to a refund for a faulty product.

I am going through the motions of making a complaint. It all has to be in writing.

You should have gone with your first instinct and bought an electric whippersnipper.  

If a brand new petrol one is this hard to start - how hard will it be when it has been used a few times.

I'm assuming it's petrol because of the spark plug??

Take it from me, all brushcutters are a pain in the butt some just a little more than others, I hate them but they are a necessary evil on my property.
I've had a farm for about twelve years and I've used a few different brushcutters in that time, there is only one brand that stands up and thats a honda.
I have a honda fire fighter pump, honda chainsaw, honda generator and a honda brushcutter all the rest are c rap, take it from me, I bought a german made solo brushcuter once it cost near on a grand and died within two years, ive had my honda for six years and its been serviced once, says it all really, do yourself a favour and get a honda, and make sure its a four stroke.

That might be going a bit overboard skippy. I'm not exactly on a farm here.

freediver wrote on Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:40am:

That might be going a bit overboard skippy. I'm not exactly on a farm here.

I think you can get some of the smaller wipper snipper type hondas for around the 300 mark, might sound like a bit of money but if you're just on a quarter acre block it will last forever.

freediver wrote on Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:32am:

Can you quote me the bit that says I can demand a refund? I tried a new spark plug. It didn't work. However the new spark plug did not have the 12kOhm resistance across the centre pin, so I don't know what is going on there.

It doesnt say 'You get a refund' it says that you can sue for the value of the goods if they dont work. This means, in practice, you get a refund - because otherwise you commence litigation against them to be paid that sum. Look at the ACCC page that I linked above.

skippy - that soundsgood advice to me.

I bought an electric ryobi whippersnipper for about $120 (i think), goes well, still cant get the line to feed out automatically.

yes, buy a good one first shot.

Quote:

I bought an electric ryobi whippersnipper for about $120 (i think), goes well, still cant get the line to feed out automatically.

I thought they might have fed the line out automatically.  Mine never has, but I have found a way to use it so that it rarely breaks.

It is still good and sturdy and never caused any other problems.

The squeaky wheel gets the greese

The department of fair trading came through for me. I just got a call from Husqvarna who said they were sending me a 'top of the line' line trimmer with attachments. Not sure what that is, but it sounds good. Should arrive next week. A week of the delay was down to me forgetting to fax in the receipts after they requested. I managed to get the fax through maybe 2-3 hours ago, so the response was quick.

FD. Hopefully not just a rebadged version of the one you already have. :D :D

Skippy. Agree 100%. HONDA all the way. Great equipment. Great cars, great motorcycles. Quiet generators, great for camping.

Buy a goat or two. Goats are real good for clearing lantana, etc., is more environmental friendly, doesn't use petrol and doesn't need to be started.

I'm growing a lot of food in my backyard, so goats wouldn't work. Some friends of mine have sheep.

freediver wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 1:50pm:

I'm growing a lot of food in my backyard, so goats wouldn't work. Some friends of mine have sheep.

Get the Australian breed of mini goats. I gave link to it few month ago.

Goats are also a pain in the arse with escaping.

freediver wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 9:45pm:

Goats are also a pain in the arse with escaping.

With small acreage it should not be hard to do proper fencin. As matter of fact goats are easier to control then rabbits or cattle like limousine, brahma or hereford.

tallowood wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 9:42pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 4th, 2009 at 1:50pm: I'm growing a lot of food in my backyard, so goats wouldn't work. Some friends of mine have sheep. Get the Australian breed of mini goats. I gave link to it few month ago.

Here it is again

http://www.australianminiaturegoat.com.au/
http://www.australianminiaturegoat.com.au/images/topstrip.jpg

Great, easier than cows and rabbits. There goes my rabbit proof fence scheme.

I think someone in Husqvarna is trying to screw with me.

I got the new whipper snipper working this morning. It is a better model than the previous one. It came with an edger attachment, and I think you can get more.

It worked fine for half an hour, but then the chord snapped inside the head, so I had to disassemble it to get the chord back out. This happened a few times. Then I realised that someone had burnt the chord with a hot piece of metal or something, causing it to snap under load. I had to disassemble it about ten times to fix breaks. One time it took me about 20 minutes because I couldn't find the end of the cord. It was under a layer of cord wraps and had been burnt right through, fusing it onto another wrap of cord so you could barely tell it was the end, even when you could see it. It took a lot of force to separate it from the wrap it had melted onto. Another time I had to use pliers to pull more cord out because it was stuck where it had partly melted onto another wrap of chord.

The chord must have been damaged as it was being wound onto the spindle, because neighbouring wraps were melted onto each other in places. I couldn't see any way that this could have happened accidentally. There was nothing sharp or hot inside the spindle. The standard technique for wrapping the spindle does not even involve disassembling it. As far as I can tell, whoever wrapped it must have stopped the process a few times, disassembled the spindle, then singed the wrapped bits of chord with something hot, then reassembled the spindle and continued wrapping.

Does anyone know whether it is the manufacturer or the retailer who winds the chord on?

Maybe it wasn't new and it was a faulty one that had been returned.  

I think it's pretty hard to make an old one look new again. They get covered in crap and scratched straight away. Plus, the nylon cord had not been used. I had to cut it before I started.

If it is new one then most probable that it is "made in china".

If it isn't chines then you can fix cord feeding problem by buying or making simple jig to replace "auto feeder". The idea is to have "right through hole" through which you feed the length of cord. When the length become short you just put another one through the hole and lock it in position by twist of the cord holder head, it takes 1 second of time. I made one for myself about 20 years ago and it is "still working".



Of course goats are more economical and you can talk to them.  :)

It seems I have been sold a real dud. A number of things have gone wrong with it even though I rarely use it. The guy at Bunnings was bagging it, but they sell ones with even more plastic on it where the talon has metal bits. Plastic in the drive train seems to be the major problem with the cheap models.

The fuel tank started leaking and dribbling petrol down my leg. I fixed this with some of that grey fuel tank cement and by emptying the tank and letting it dry after every use. I was told you had to use fresh fuel in it or it wrecks the engine, but I have not had any problems with that. I think this is just part of getting people to empty the fuel tank because it is not designed to contain fuel.

The bump stop broke after a few uses, so I was carrying a key or screwdriver with me to feed line out.

The line kept overheating and melting/sticking to itself.

Recently, a tiny bit of plastic broke off the bump stop mechanism so the whole thing stopped working. It was only about half a cm long. I spent an hour on the phone trying to track down a replacement head. Apparently Husqvarna bought them out, but Husqvarna won't sell direct to the public, even spare parts. So I had to call them back three times to get more phone numbers of stores that would supposedly sell the part. The people who sold it to me originally do not stock the parts, even though Husqvarna referred me to them. One store that Husqvarna referred me to had it on their 'do not service' list because there are supposedly no parts. Anyway, eventually I found a store in central QLD (Rolleston), but by the time you added on the markups and two sets of freight it was nearly the same price as a new line trimmer.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I bought a $15 head from Bunnings that fits with a few mods.

How to fit a $15 homelite trimmer head to a Talon line trimmer (model AT33583 AT335831 AT335832 AT335833 etc):

Take the head with you to the shop to check it matches the homelite model. The big hexagonal bit needs to fit as well as the long bit that sticks through the head. The thread on the homelite bolt that holds it in all place will be too big. Here is how to fix that:

Take the old Talon bolt with you and get one with a normal hex head and the same thread that looks about the right length. Also get a nut with the same size hex head as inside the bump stop of the homelite head. You need to destroy the homelite bump stop to check this, so you are on your own there.

Use a hammer to force out the bolt on the bump stop. The silver metal disc pushes out with a bit of encouragement. You need to make a bolt with a thread to match the talon and a hex head to metch the bump stop. Do this by attaching the nut you bought (or had lying around). To attach the nut, use glue, or I used solder as follows:

Put the nut on the bolt. It should slip over the threads. Hold it with a pair of needle nosed pliers, thread pointing up, with a few bits of solder in the gap. Hold it over a lit candle to heat it up until the solder melts. With another pair of needle nose pliers, wobble the nut a bit to get the solder to go into the gaps between the threads. When you are done, put it on ice to get it to cool down quicker.

This will almost work as is, but the bump stop won't work properly (even manually unless you unscrew it) because it won't go out far enough. You need to add the equivalent of the small split ring washer that you see on the old talon bolt (that you did not throw out). This needs to be small enough to fit inside the hole in the homelite, but big enough to fit over the thread, which is not possible unless you give it a lot of encouragement with pliers etc. Check that it still fits inside the homelite shafthole when you are done. Don't bother replacing the metal disc unless you want to keep the dirt out.

Quote:

I was told you had to use fresh fuel in it or it wrecks the engine, but I have not had any problems with that. I think this is just part of getting people to empty the fuel tank because it is not designed to contain fuel.

It depends on how long between uses if you should run the thing dry.
If it's not going to be used for more than a month then it should be run dry.

The reason being that the petrol quality here isn't great and it reacts with both the two stroke oil and within the carby - if you leave it for long enough it can gum up your carby making the engine extremely hard to start.

Am I right in assuming Talon is the budget arm of Husqvarna?
Huski gear used to cost a bloody fortune but was of top quality many yrs ago where as Talon products are a lot cheaper.
Anyway...what ever it costs, you should always be looked after if it doesnt work the way it should coz as we all know..one lost customer through bad service is magnified many fold.

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 10:38am:

I purchased a Talon (Husqvarna) whipper snipper (line trimmer) yesterday afternoon. It stopped working after 10 minutes of use. I called the seller this morning and they gave me the number for a repair shop.

Consumer laws require the RETAILER to handle this for a limited period (I think it's a couple of weeks)

Under YOUR circumstance, you are entittled to a FULL REFUND





PS

I've got 2 Husqvarna chainsaws
Not a day's grief - from either - in three years

Only ever buy a Sthil in line trimmers.

Yes, as Verge says, get a Stihl.

As a nurseryman, landscaper who hates machines I found that only buying electric saved me hours of agravation. I brought a Talon electric chainsaw years ago and I've had countless hours of hastle free work out of it. Line trimmers always gave me grief, a good solid steel brushcutting head for me. Along fence lines and tree trunks? Roundup  ;)

http://www.abbeygardensales.co.uk/webupload/ABBEYGAR/CUSTOM/2009X2/LARGE/blade_3%5B1%5D-(2).jpg

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 10:38am:

I purchased a Talon (Husqvarna) whipper snipper (line trimmer) yesterday afternoon. It stopped working after 10 minutes of use. I called the seller this morning and they gave me the number for a repair shop. The repair shop said there would be at least a 2 1/2 week wait to get it fixed. I called the seller again and asked if I could get a refeund or replacement instead. They refused. They gave me the number for Husqvarna in Sydney. I called them and they gave me the number for another repair shop. I called them and they said they don't deal with Husqvarna any more. They said that Husqvarna used to have a 14 day replacement policy and that previously they would not have even been allowed to repair a product that had only been used for 10 minutes because of that replacement policy.

I would avoid Ryobi products as well. As we are aware most products are now assembled in the PRC and they do a shyte job of it.

Wiltshires are a good self shearing sheep variety that tastes good  ;D

http://www.wilkamdai.com/sheep_wiltshire_horn_wiltipol_index.html

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 4:11pm:

I was actually tempted to turn up and demand a refund in person. Then if they refused, sit outside the store and attempt to start the thing every time a new customer turned up. It would look great sitting on the footpath beside the box it came in. Fortunately my time is worth more than that. I had a closer look at the problem. The spark plug does not appear to be sparking. I got out the multimeter and it could pick up 40V AC across it. Apparently it is supposed to be 18000 V, but the multimeter may not pick that up anyway because it is so brief. The resistance across the plug is 12kV. Is that normal? Anyway, if it is the CDI coil (powers the plug) that is the problem, a replacement costs almost as much as a new whipper snipper, according to the repair shop. Yet they are still obligued to repair it instead of replacing the whole thing - he said that just after suggesting it is a 'throw away' item because the part costs nearly as much as the whole thing. I suspect their strategy is to make the warranty worthless by making it too much of a hassle for the customer to get it fixed. Even if you ignore the hassle for nthe customer, it would still have to cost them more to repair than to replace it.

You can't measure the voltage on a spark plug using a multi meter. It will give you erroneous readings and may even damage the meter. Pull out the spark plug and connect it up with the metal body touching the chassis. There should be a spark in the gap when you pull the cord. If not then the magneto coil is stuffed.

They should replace it for you under warranty no questions asked. If they don't then go in there and talk calmly to them and then slowly raise your voice when you don't get any action ;) Make sure you go there when it's busy usually on a Saturday morning ;)

There are other better products than Huqsvarna and talon. I usually go for makita, honda and stihl.

I recently purchase a farmboss Stihl from Northern Lawn Mower and Chainsaws Perth and it was amazing.

If you live in Perth, you can check out their online store for Lawn Mower sales and chainsaws latest models.

muso wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 3:50pm:

mantra wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 11:41am: I bought a Husqvarna sewing machine a few years ago and had a similar problem when I lost a basic foot.  It was impossible to replace it as they had just stopped stocking parts.  Fortunately I found this little old shop that happen to salvage second hand parts from other brands and I found one that fitted. You should do a Captain Jean Luc Picard and just take it to the Husqvarna shop and say "Make it sew"

Killer ;D ;D ;D

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 10:38am:

I purchased a Talon (Husqvarna) whipper snipper (line trimmer) yesterday afternoon. It stopped working after 10 minutes of use. I called the seller this morning and they gave me the number for a repair shop. The repair shop said there would be at least a 2 1/2 week wait to get it fixed. I called the seller again and asked if I could get a refeund or replacement instead. They refused. They gave me the number for Husqvarna in Sydney. I called them and they gave me the number for another repair shop. I called them and they said they don't deal with Husqvarna any more. They said that Husqvarna used to have a 14 day replacement policy and that previously they would not have even been allowed to repair a product that had only been used for 10 minutes because of that replacement policy.

Sorry FD, but you bought a toy.
Better to spend the extra $$$ and get a real whipper snipper instead.
I learn't that lesson myself decades ago.
I hope though you can get a refund or a replacement.
You need to turn the heat up on them, they are stuffing you around.

I got a replacement eventually. Apparently it is a slightly better model. It still works, with the help of a bit of sticky tape and chewing gum.

Frediver, you have huge rights under the Consumer Protection Laws. It is NOT up to you to get the thing repaired. It is up to the shop you bought it from.

Go back and demand a refund if they won't repair it. If they don't record your episode and make a formal complaint to Consumer Affairs.

They will belt them over the bloody head because, like I say, you have huge rights under the law and there are huge penalties invovled for these a..holes who try to sucker customers.

buzzanddidj wrote on Aug 20^th, 2011 at 7:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 10:38am: I purchased a Talon (Husqvarna) whipper snipper (line trimmer) yesterday afternoon. It stopped working after 10 minutes of use. I called the seller this morning and they gave me the number for a repair shop. Consumer laws require the RETAILER to handle this for a limited period (I think it's a couple of weeks) Under YOUR circumstance, you are entittled to a FULL REFUND PS I've got 2 Husqvarna chainsaws Not a day's grief - from either - in three years

And so HAPPY with the "husky saws" we stuck with Husqvarna for the new mower



http://image.made-in-china.com/4f0j00RCuTNgzFahor/Riding-Lawn-Mower-Husqvarna-Toro-Lawn-Mower-YTH23V48-.jpg

While Talon might be owned/distributed by Husqvarna, it isn't Husqvarna gear - not even close. It is not rebranded Husky product. Not even low end Husky product. It's like claiming that the Mini (owned by BMW) you've bought is actually a BMW.

Husqvarna branded gear is top shelf with the build quality being near as good as you can get. They know how to build quality chainsaws (go ask the pros). Comparing Talon to genuine Husqvarna or something like Stihl is like comparing Kia to BMW.

Stihl chainsaws are probably a notch above husky.

Husqvarna ride on mowers are well above the likes of Victa, Toro, Cub Cadet, MTR etc.... again, quality kit.

(Toro commercial gear is top notch.... the consumer stuff isn't)