Local Muslim clerics accused
Barney Zwartz
November 21, 2008
SOME Muslim religious leaders in Victoria are condoning rape within marriage, domestic violence, polygamy, welfare fraud and exploitation of women, according to an explosive report on the training of imams.

The report says some imams apply Sharia (Islamic law) when it benefits men but not when it benefits women, and that they hinder police from pursuing domestic violence charges.

Women seeking divorces have also been told by imams that they must leave "with only the clothes on their back" and not seek support or a share of property because they can get welfare payments.

And the report says some imams knowingly perform polygamous marriages, also knowing that the second wife, a de facto under Australian law, can claim Centrelink payments.

The report is based on a study commissioned and funded by the former Howard government and conducted by the Islamic Women's Welfare Council of Victoria.

It was presented yesterday at a National Centre for Excellence in Islamic Studies conference at Melbourne University.

It is the result of extensive community consultation, interviews with police, lawyers, court workers and academics, and meetings with and questions to the Victorian Board of Imams.

The board's role is to provide an Islamic view and religious guidance to the community and represent it to the media. The report claims that the 24-man board ignored or did not directly answer many of the questions.

It says women, community and legal workers and police involved in the consultation were particularly concerned about domestic violence, and suggested that imams aimed to preserve the family at the cost of women.

When cases came to court they were often dropped after family and community elders pressured women to withdraw charges.

The report says some women who were legally separated but not religiously divorced had their husbands enter their houses, demand sexual intercourse and take it by force.

"Workers who have assisted women in this situation said that the advice women received from the imams was that it was "halal" — permitted — because there was a valid "nikah" — marriage," it says.

The report also cites sexual assault allegations connected with under-age marriages.

It says polygamy is steadily increasing and gaining acceptance among Melbourne Muslims, and Shepparton police report many "de facto" relationships that are really polygamous marriages.

"Community workers who have provided support to women whose husbands took another wife religiously said that women blame the availability of Centrelink benefits … since one or the other wife will be claiming it, relieving the husband of the responsibility of supporting two families," the report says.

Community members quoted in the report believe that imams' narrow religious training in an increasingly complex world, lack of life experience, poor English and lack of understanding of Australia create problems for the community. For example, ill-informed comment by imams drew a wedge between the mainstream and Muslim communities.

The report suggests the Muslim community believes many imams are ill-equipped for the role, which involves much higher expectations in Australia than in predominantly Muslim countries, including marriage counselling, pastoral and spiritual care, marriages and divorces.

"They come from their own little village and culture and say this is what Islam is," one woman is quoted saying. "They come from a village where there is no running water and electricity, and they bring their dark ideas into this country."

The secretary of the Board of Imams, Sheikh Fehmi Naji El-Imam, said he could not understand how the council could write such a report and denied the complaints "absolutely".

"They must have heard stories here and there and are writing about them as though they are fact," he said.

Sheikh Fehmi, who is also Mufti of Australia, said no authorised imam would conduct a polygamous marriage, and it was absolutely wrong that women's rights were ignored in marriage or divorce, or that imams ignored domestic violence.

"I haven't heard of any case where the board disregarded a woman or did not try to help her," he said.

Islamic women's council chairwoman Tasneem Chopra said: "We are hoping we can negotiate with the appropriate authorities a better outcome for women, whether through law reform or education.

"This is a crucial, necessary beginning but it is part of a much larger picture."

"The board's role is to provide an Islamic view and religious guidance to the community and represent it to the media. The report claims that the 24-man board ignored or did not directly answer many of the questions."

I have heard that before and it wasn't from the report.


"Sheikh Fehmi, who is also Mufti of Australia, said no authorised imam would conduct a polygamous marriage, and it was absolutely wrong that women's rights were ignored in marriage or divorce, or that imams ignored domestic violence."

It seems that for some reason Australia is full unauthorised imams. I wonder why.

Yes there does seem to be a pattern of behaviour appearing.

As for the Imams...  just lucky i guess.  but in a religion where there is no official hierachy or clerics etc...  what can you expect?

Quote:

and meetings with and questions to the Victorian Board of Imams

That would have been very interesting. I wonder if they used the same deflection tactics as we see here?


Quote:

The report claims that the 24-man board ignored or did not directly answer many of the questions.

;D


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When cases came to court they were often dropped after family and community elders pressured women to withdraw charges.

No surprises there. Islam seems to inevitably create a culture that places women second. Abu et al claim that this would somehow change under a caliphate, but I don't see how it would. It would just become more ingrained. Women cannot be protected by laws alone. It requires a culture that supports their independence.

Hicks proclaimed the Taliban regime the exemplary example of islamic governence... (para) So given that I'd say we've already seen the place of women under a Caliphate rule.

This has the potential to destroy the social safety net in this country. If a large section of the community actively tries to exploit welfare by relying on it instead of those who have primary responsibility, then we will be faced with a choice of abandoning welfare for our most vulnerable children or subsidising the expansion of those exploitative segments of our society. This is what happens when people value their co-religionists above other members of society to the extent that they are prepared to lie and cheat. Historically the extremist religious groups have tended to cut themselves off from society, rather than immerse themselves in it, thereby ensuring that they look after their own and are more self sufficient, not less. This sort of parasitisation is not something our culture has a lot of experience in dealing with.

Well you can blame immigration policy and multiculti for it then.

As far as I know, immigration of Muslims has been cut back.

That would be discriminatory...  where'd you hear that?

Immigration is very discriminating, always has been. I think Abu made the claim. I think I've also seen DT post an article about it on multiculturalism. I tried asking for more info on this a few times, but no-one produced any. It's a bit beside the point though. Most Australian Muslims on here for example seem to be local converts.

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 10:36am:

This has the potential to destroy the social safety net in this country. If a large section of the community actively tries to exploit welfare by relying on it instead of those who have primary responsibility, then we will be faced with a choice of abandoning welfare for our most vulnerable children or subsidising the expansion of those exploitative segments of our society. This is what happens when people value their co-religionists above other members of society to the extent that they are prepared to lie and cheat. Historically the extremist religious groups have tended to cut themselves off from society, rather than immerse themselves in it, thereby ensuring that they look after their own and are more self sufficient, not less. This sort of parasitisation is not something our culture has a lot of experience in dealing with.

Yes, it is becoming apparent that islamist strategy here is to infiltrate and to destroy Australian society from within. They have polished this technique in Kosovo. I believe, though, that some of the ordinary Muslems don't want it to happen but are to scared to voice their opinion within their community as they know from experience how  violent response can be from "true" believers.

What happened in Kosovo?

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 11:14am:

What happened in Kosovo?

Muslems were allowed to immigrate to Yugoslav Kosovo from Albania during communist internationalist years of Tito, where they breed at much faster rate then serbs and then they started terrorist insurgency against constitutional democratically elected government authority.

tallowood wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 11:06am:

Yes, it is becoming apparent that islamist strategy here is to infiltrate and to destroy Australian society from within. They have polished this technique in Kosovo. I believe, though, that some of the ordinary Muslems don't want it to happen but are to scared to voice their opinion within their community as they know from experience how  violent response can be from "true" believers.

tallowood,

This is appears to be correct.

Decent ppl [nominal muslims] in Belgium are expressing this exact same fear [a reluctance to speak out, in opposition to more militant elements within their community, for fear of the 'consequences'].

In this YOUTUBE presentation.....

Belgium - Militant Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-inob20I_Y0



And examples of this same kind of 'intimidation', and threats of violence, has been seen already, within the Australia muslim community....

Outspoken Muslim seeks police protection
March 22, 2007
One of Australia's most important Muslim leaders has sought police protection [after he received threats from muslims].
.....Tom Zreika, president of the Lebanese Muslim Association - and Sheikh Hilali's employer - said he received non-stop phone threats yesterday after he released a document urging greater integration and for Muslims to "mend their ways".
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/outspoken-muslim-seeks-police-protection/2007/03/21/1174153164032.html

Seeing as Abu isn't around at the moment, I thought I should take this opportunity to remind everyone, on his behalf, that these clerics don't really exist. They are a figment of your imagination.

And even if they did, it would have nothing to do with Islam, and even if it did have something to do with Islam it would be due to a misinterpretation of the Koran by those who do not understand Arabic, and even if it wasn't a misunderstanding it would have been all the west's fault anyway.

It's just not the same without Abu here.

I'm ok with it.

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 2:57pm:

It's just not the same without Abu here.

Where is he? Has he been arrested?

I doubt it. Deflecting is not a criminal offence. Apparently he's not one of the militant Muslims, rather he's one of the those that make excuses for the militant ones.

try to stay on topic

as to these clerics or whatever you'd call them- if it's true it's absolutely disgusting behaviour. what fools.

What Muslims...