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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Thinking Globally >> No condemnation?? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224811574 Message started by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:26am

Title: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:26am

This is feedback to all forummers, rather than to the forum itself...

In the thread US missiles hit Pakistani school, about 8 children being blown to pieces by a US missile, two forum members, ardent Australian nationalists at that, expressed the following views:

DILLIGAF wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:33pm:

Thats great news! :) A few less mohammedans in the world polluting the air with their foul breaths.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 10:24pm:

I don't feel sorry for them one little bit.

There are good points and bad points to this situation.
Good news: a few more potential terrorists off the Earth.

Now I know most ordinary Australians would find this kind of sentiment towards the murder of innocent children to be absolutely disgusting, but so far not a single person has even mentioned disagreement with these two forummers comments about this atrocity.

In fact the only post addressing it was from sprintcycleist stating:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:47pm:

abu - maybe one that has seen what has come to fruition of children like this?

When I questioned what kind of animal could feel joy at such an atrocity. As if to justify the murder of children because of what they may or may not do in the future.

Now I can only begin to imagine what the response would be if a Muslim were to post here similar things about civilians killed in America/Britain/Bali etc. Why is it when it's civilians (and children in their school no less!!) from Pakistan, people support and are filled with joy and jubilance, and nobody bats an eyelid..

Does this mean people aren't really opposed to innocent civilians being murdered, and those poor excuses for human beings that find joy in such crimes? Or is it only if they're 'ours'??

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by freediver on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:40am

It's like a pack of dogs fighting over a corpse. Just about everyone posting in that thread was trying to get political mileage from the death of those children. Why should members feel obligued to wade into yet another one of those threads?

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:14pm

I can guarantee you that if the shoe was on the other foot, most would find their way in there and would be demanding the deportation of Muslims who made similar statements.

Come on, even if a Muslim doesn't openly condemn an attack itself, we are made to feel partially guilty by association or something, whereas you can't even condemn someone who openly feels joy at the specific killing of little children.

If any Muslim ever expressed joy at the specific killing of children, all Muslims would unanimously condemn them. It's really a sick mentality, and I find it quite hypocritical that you and others are concerned about having Muslims in Australia, when quite obviously you have some really sick people already here who actually find joy in the murder of kids... So long as they're foreigners...

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by freediver on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:22pm

Yet plenty of Muslims do kill innocent children. Not accidentally, but deliberately. Yes, some Muslims give lip service and condemn it. Others dance in the street. Other's organise big paychecks for the families of the martyrs. We demand that they not only condemn it, but that they actually prevent it from happening again.

If I criticised Phil for being so vulgar, I would also have to pull you up for breaking the rules. Personally, I hope you can both just move on.

I am sorry if this is not the response you sought. Please don't use the feedback board to grab attention when you don't think your thread is getting enough.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by sprintcyclist on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:41pm

fair call Abu.

my comment was in very bad taste, my apologies.

The kids there were complete innocent vicitms.
They are just school kids.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 1:28pm

Quote:

Yet plenty of Muslims do kill innocent children. Not accidentally, but deliberately.

Do you really believe the propaganda that they do it deliberately? Like with the US, it's either collateral damage or human shields. I've never seen any statement from any Muslim group claiming they wanted to target children. And I've certainly never any Muslim take joy in such details.

Quote:

Yes, some Muslims give lip service and condemn it. Others dance in the street

Seems like you're confusing between condemning an attack and condemning specifically taking joy at children being killed.. there's a big difference. I don't think a lot of those people who support US wars (from WWII till today) would feel joy knowing children died in the process. They might support the overall action, but not the specific and horiffic realities of the outcome of it.

Quote:

If I criticised Phil for being so vulgar, I would also have to pull you up for breaking the rules

What rule did I break?

And does breaking a forum rule (if i broke one) compare to a person taking joy in the murder of children on your forum?? Is that the comparison you're trying to make??

Quote:

Please don't use the feedback board to grab attention when you don't think your thread is getting enough.

It had 66 views. My problem was not with the lack of people visiting the thread, it's with the lack of opposition to the inhumanity expressed therein.

If you think I posted this in thhe wrong forum, then please feel free to move it to the one you consider correct. My intention in this thread was a general feedback to all members of ozpolitic.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 1:32pm

sprint,

Glad to see you changed your mind on this one.

It's truly a sickening outlook they have on this thing. And rest assured if any Muslim were to come here taking joy at non-Muslim children being killed (although I highly doubt it would ever occur), I'd be the first to put them into their place and call for their deportation from Australia. It's truly worrying to think we have such callous and cold hearted people walking in the streets amongst us.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by jordan484 on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 1:35pm

Quote:

although I highly doubt it would ever occur

Because they wouldn't express it publicly, or because they were actually appalled?

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:03pm

Because it's a despicable thing to take joy in, and only one devoid of any fibre of morality could contemplate such a thing.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by freediver on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:04pm

Do you really believe the propaganda that they do it deliberately?

Was 9/11 an accident? What about blowing up busses in Israel, or Mosques in Iraq?

I've never seen any statement from any Muslim group claiming they wanted to target children.

Of course not, that would make them look bad. They claim to be targetting 'western aggressors' but get a bit vague about who they are specifically targetting.

What rule did I break?

The one about not insulting other members.

And does breaking a forum rule (if i broke one) compare to a person taking joy in the murder of children on your forum?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. People make comparisons. Events don't compare themselves.

It had 66 views. My problem was not with the lack of people visiting the thread, it's with the lack of opposition to the inhumanity expressed therein.

They probably took one look at your reference to the Taliban at the start and decided they couldn;t be bothered reading the rest.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by sprintcyclist on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:11pm

Abu - sorry. My comment was intended in jest.
It is not a thing to make fun of.
I am sure the others did not mean what they said.

You did the right thing to bring this matter to light and speak your mind on our comments.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by tallowood on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:44pm

Was there any mention of children in the article presented by abu?

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:48pm

Since you commented in the thread, one would assume you read the article, no?

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by tallowood on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:54pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:48pm:

Since you commented in the thread, one would assume you read the article, no?

So were children mentioned or not?

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by freediver on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 3:07pm

Likewise it would be reasonable to assume that because Abu claimed that children were killed, that he actually read that in the article.

I'm surprised Abu didn't respond with "Your questions ahve already been answered".

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by Kytro on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 4:01pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:03pm:

Because it's a despicable thing to take joy in, and only one devoid of any fibre of morality could contemplate such a thing.

While it is certainly a horrible thing, as most things involving missiles are, the above statement is not quite accurate.

You merely need to detach yourself from the morality in some way, justify it to yourself the way mobs do, or terrorists.

Horrible, yes, but devoid of morality, not completely.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by tallowood on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 4:35pm

There were no children and killing terrorist is not horrible at all even if they recuperate abroad.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by sprintcyclist on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 5:21pm

whether kids were kiled or not, the assumption WAS kids were.

And my respsonse was poor.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by tallowood on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 5:43pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 5:21pm:

whether kids were kiled or not, the assumption WAS kids were.

And my respsonse was poor.

Your punishment is no beer for a week.

And next time do research first.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:12pm

tallowood,

They were just students in a school, you don't know anything about them, that's all we know. They were civilians... do you support the murdering of civilians? So long as they're Pakistanis? Or students of religious schools in Pakistan?

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by Lestat on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:32pm

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:04pm:

[i]The one about not insulting other members.

It is against the rules to insult other members...unless they are muslim, in which case it is actually encouraged, especially by the forum owner.

How dare you talk about insulting others, when you not only encourage it, you actually partake in it. Enough with the bullshit huh...really your fooling no one.

Do you know whats insulting FD...you, you are insulting. You are an insult to the human race.

Enjoy your '5 regular posters' politics forum...its pathetic for a reason you know...and perhaps if it gives your pathetic existance some meaning, then maybe it is fulfilling its purpose..and when you get a couple of new posters regularly posting...you and your red neck yobbo brigade does all in its power to insult, abuse and mock into submission. It happened with Imperial, and now your doing your utmost to ensure that Malik/Abu stop posting as well. I guess when all are gone, and you and your little bunch of red neck spastics can start scratching each others balls again, then you'll really be satisfied eh.

I think I'll stick to forums which have reasoned, intelligent debate where people actually respect each other...

Most of the regulars here.....really are scraping at the bottom of the barrel, and there is a reason for that you know....that reason is you.

Your pathetic....you have the nerve to state that Abu has 'insulted' members, yet you have no issue with the barrage of abuse and insults he has received. Actually...on the contrary, you encourage it.

Phil starts a despicable thread, and what do you do..nothing. Absolute silence...yet here you are having a go at Abu for insulting others.

And here's the thing...if I or any other poster started a similar thread on just about any other religon or group of people...I have no doubt you would remove it. No doubt whatsoever.....

Cut the crap will you, and stop with the bullsh(t.You send me a PM asking me to remove abuse, yet when muslims here are abused who actually join in. But of course...you've stated this a number of times.

"Abusing and insulting muslims is good discussion, however insulting others is not on'...yeah yeah, we get it.

Do you really expect me to take anything you say seriously.

You display all the characterstics of an A grade loser, and fair dinkum need to take a good hard look at yourself, your hypocricy and double standards.

And go ahead, please, ban me...you'll be doing me a favour.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by Phil. on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 2:51am

Still, i'm pretty happy with the result.
These youths would have eventually made their way into the touchy youth stained islamic 'club'.

Condem me?
Ratshit, you are indeed a whining sook and bitch. Go to your mosque and suck gleefully on Imam circumsized knob.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by Lestat on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 7:29am

I rest my case....

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by sprintcyclist on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 8:04am

lestat - FD is quite fair.
it is ok for people to question a belief. And say anything about it.
Seems when mohammads actions are inspected closely muslims take it as a personal slight.

It is not.

If someone starts personal abuse, then gets some stick back, they can't really complain.

What happens here is freedom of speech - which in my experience does not exist in muslim chatsites.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by tallowood on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 8:16am

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:12pm:

They were Taliban students.
Taliban schools were set up in the 1980s to raise volunteers to fight against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Now Pakistani Taliban uses the same tactics to fight against democratically elected Afghanistan government.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by jordan484 on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 8:19am

Lestat wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:32pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:04pm:

[i]The one about not insulting other members.

Come on guys, this is one of the funniest posts on here. You gotta give him points for hilarity! ;D ;D

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by abu_rashid on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 10:00am

Quote:

They were Taliban students.

Taliban means students, "They were student students"?? Ok...

They were civilians in a school, plain and simple. They weren't combatants, they weren't doing anything whatsoever. Just face it, when it comes to the 'other' you have no problem with killing civilians. You might bring some half cocked justification, but it's quite simple, you got no problem with it. You're nothing but a hypocrite plain and simple.

Quote:

Taliban schools were set up in the 1980s to raise volunteers to fight against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Who set them up and funded them to fight against the Soviets??

Quote:

Taliban uses the same tactics to fight against democratically elected Afghanistan government.

Actually during the Soviet war they were fighting a Soviet-installed puppet government, like today they're fighting a US-install puppet government. Not much has changed, just the man who's holding the strings.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by jordan484 on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 10:47am

Quote:

They were civilians in a school, plain and simple.

I thought your outrage stemmed from the fact that children had been murdered?

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by DonaldTrump on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 3:11pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:26am:

Thats great news! :) A few less mohammedans in the world polluting the air with their foul breaths.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 10:24pm:

I don't feel sorry for them one little bit.

There are good points and bad points to this situation.
Good news: a few more potential terrorists off the Earth.

abu - maybe one that has seen what has come to fruition of children like this?

Cry me a river.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by freediver on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 7:06pm

Phil and Lestat, stop insulting people please.

It is against the rules to insult other members...unless they are muslim, in which case it is actually encouraged, especially by the forum owner.

How dare you talk about insulting others, when you not only encourage it, you actually partake in it. Enough with the bullshit huh...really your fooling no one.

Do you know whats insulting FD...you, you are insulting. You are an insult to the human race.

Lestat, you don't appear to understand what an insult is. A disagreement is not an insult. Sayiong something you don't like is not an insult. Criticising Muhammed is not an insult. You see, people need to take some responsibility for their reactions. Just because you feel angry doesn't mean you have been wronged. Sometimes it just means you have poor self control.

Your pathetic....you have the nerve to state that Abu has 'insulted' members

Yes, because that is what he did Lestat. I focus on what people actually post, not how upset they are or how much they complain about mistreatment.

Phil starts a despicable thread, and what do you do..nothing.

What makes you think that?

And here's the thing...if I or any other poster started a similar thread on just about any other religon or group of people...I have no doubt you would remove it. No doubt whatsoever.....

Perhaps, but I suspect you wouldn't catch on to some of the subtle differences.

"Abusing and insulting muslims is good discussion, however insulting others is not on'...yeah yeah, we get it.

No, you don't appear to get it.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by soren on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 8:08pm

Lestat is not entirely wrong.

If there is to be robust debate, muslims can't be seen to be pulled up on 'politeness issues' more than the rest. Frank personal criticism must not be always treated as a show stopper just because someone has the vapours.
Moderators should not post on forums they moderate. An umpire should not be a player.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by freediver on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 9:54pm

Sounds nice in theory Soren, but who is going to bother moderating a board they cannot even participate in? The only place I have seen that happen is where the moderators get paid. If you paid me enough, I would stop posting here and just moderate it. Let me know what you think.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by soren on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 10:25pm

I do not want to see ganging up on anyone. Everyone disagreeing with say Lestat or Abu rashid is one thing. We all give our reasons for disagreeing with parts or all of their posts, and visa versa, they can express views whether one agrees or not with them.
If I am called a maggot with an inferiority complex, it should give me pause to refleect. Either there is something in t or the person levelling the charge is insane and should be confined to Bedlam. No harm is done by reflecting once in a while.
Part of the joy of online forums is to witness the ever-evolving inventiveness of the English language, never more fascinatng or satisfying than when deployed in abuse.

Getting all precious about a bit of robust language is another thing. It is not right to be seen to blow the whistle on the muslims on politeness grounds all the time. Justice has to be seen to be done.
Perhaps if moderators read up on the law and restricted themselves to weeding out unlawful comments and let the feathers fly otherwise.

On the whole this is only harmless verbal jousting. I am sure we are all giggling most of the time. Well, I am that's for sure. Otherwise it would be a very sad thing, online forums.i

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by freediver on Oct 26^th, 2008 at 8:39am

Perhaps if moderators read up on the law and restricted themselves to weeding out unlawful comments and let the feathers fly otherwise.

There are plenty of forums like that. Most of them are a bit lifeless, with the odd feather blowing past in the wind like a rolly weed.

Title: Re: No condemnation??
Post by Phil. on Oct 26^th, 2008 at 2:31pm

Oh sook sook abu_ratshit.