http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/more-want-migrant-intake-cut/2008/10/12/1223749845515.html


Quote:

More want migrant intake cut Yuko Narushima October 13, 2008 Advertisement DISSATISFACTION with immigration is rising across the country, and NSW is the state most set on reducing migrant numbers. Between 2004 and 2007 the proportion of voters who wanted the migrant intake cut rose from 34 per cent to 46 per cent, a study by a Swinburne University of Technology academic, Katharine Betts, shows. The paper, which appears in the journal People And Place today, found that NSW had the highest support for a pared back intake, half of the respondents saying migrant numbers should be "reduced a little or a lot". In 2006-07 a third of all new migrants to Australia chose to live in NSW. "The effects of population change are more noticeable," said Dr Betts, an associate professor in sociology. "People are aware of the extra traffic on the road, and everyone knows someone that can't find a place to rent." Voters' mutterings come as the Federal Government faces questions over its immigration program which, this year, swelled to record levels while the country teetered on the brink of a recession. The Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, has said next year's intake will take into account financial conditions before the federal budget next May.. Dr Betts said attitudes to immigration were influenced markedly by the economic climate and political rhetoric of the day. For instance, over the past 18 years of comparable statistics, taken from the Australian Election Studies, opposition to immigration policy was strongest in 1993. About this time, the Labor government, under Bob Hawke and then Paul Keating, was speaking enthusiastically about multiculturalism, the nation was emerging from recession and high unemployment was souring sentiment to new immigrants' easy access to welfare. "In such a setting, some voters could have believed that immigration was bringing in competitors for scarce jobs," Dr Betts said. Conversely, support for increased immigration was highest in 2004. Under the Howard government the word multiculturalism all but disappeared from use, economic conditions had improved and changes to immigration policy reduced total numbers, limited family reunions and restricted new migrants' access to welfare. This, combined with tough border control, worked to calm the electorate, Dr Betts said. "Many voters may have come to believe the program was not only small, well-targeted and … in the national interest, but that it was also under close control. The idea that people are just streaming in gets people really upset." And it is unlikely to surprise politicians that when they talk tough on immigration, voters feel more favourably disposed toward migrants. Immigration policies that appeared to benefit the people already in Australia were best received, Dr Betts said.

Like so many other people I've spoken to have said, "At first I was all excited about the prospect of reduced immigration. But then I realised that the Government will simply wait until economic conditions improve and then commence bombarding us with the third worlders again." I feel the same way.

It's quite clear that third-world immigrants don't necessarily 'boost the economy' like so many brainless multiculturalists and anti-wacists argue, but they merely boost the income of business owners by allowing them to pay them less money rather than paying regular Australians a fair wage. Thus, lowering the living conditions of Australians by forcing Australians to work for less to compete with these third worlders.

Immigrants are by no means 'good for regular Australians' in any sense of the word. The people who most want immigrants are greedy business owners who want to pay immigrants less money for more hours.

Yep i read that earlier and boy have i had a broad grin on my face all night. :)
You Reds and bleeding hearts see this now? The Australian people dont want to be fed your bullshit anymore.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1668/stupidpollpiczy0.jpg

1997 immigration poll.


It's 'temporary' good news, Phil. You can bet your butt that once the economic conditions improve, the politicians will fall back into line with the UN immigration pacts and accept hoards more useless immigrants to push trolleys and severely dent Australia's standard of living.


Whilst I think it's temporary good news, at the same time it's bad news.


'Cutting immigration' also extends to 'practical immigration' and 'useful migrants.' Such as people from Finland or perhaps even Japan.


I just wish the Government would stop being so ideological about third worlders and just recognise them for what they are... a burden. Bring back the days of importing 'actual' skilled workers who will be useful to this nation.

Funny ain't it ?
The state that has has the most immigrants wants them the least.

one would think they'd be perfect to bring here during hard times as cheap labour. but there i've just answered myself, it wouldnt work because Africans dont work.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:00am:

Funny ain't it ? The state that has has the most immigrants wants them the least.

It's extremely funny Sprint when many, many, many brainless multicults and anti-wacists claim that 'those who live among migrants grow to accept them more.'

How wrong they are. Studies have proved this wrong.

Slotting thousands upon thousands of migrants in a particular area will simply not lead to the two parties growing to like each other. If anything, if you stick a small number of that particular ethnic make-up in a particular area, chances are the locals will like and accept them more.

When will they ever learn?

donald - when they themselves live amongst ethnic immigrants ??

Well as what i think Sprinty was trying to say the invaders (immigrants) tend to stay in their own enclaves and refuse to join Australian mainstream society and conflict naturally starts from there.

But also there is another aspect here and its the main reason for conflict between us and its racism. In particular the Arabic/semetic and Negroid muslims tend to avoid others at all costs because they seem to think they are better than us Kaffir/Goy.

Quote:

It's quite clear that third-world immigrants don't necessarily 'boost the economy' like so many brainless multiculturalists and anti-wacists argue,

The vast majority of immigrants are coming on skilled migrant visas...


Quote:

Australia's overall migration program will now be 190,300 for this year, and 133,500 of those places will be allocated for permanent skilled migrants.

Source

I don't think you're worried about 'third worlders', I think you're perhaps worried about losing your job to a more skilled, harder working, less demanding foreigner.

Quote:

I don't think you're worried about 'third worlders', I think you're perhaps worried about losing your job to a more skilled, harder working, less demanding foreigner.

Perhaps that could be true in some cases Abu - but Australians generally are known for being the hardest workers in the world.  Even replacing Australians with foreigners who will accept lower wages - doesn't necessarily mean the employer will get the same standard of work from them.

The biggest problem is when jobs start to disappear - unemployment queues will increase and no-one wants to see more Australians or foreigners in that queue.  

I think immigration has to cease altogether for a while - at least until we have a decent water supply, more infrastructure in place and employment figures stabilise and that's not likely at the moment.

immigration ceased temporarily ??
I think we should export many of the immigrants we have !!!!!!!!!!

Allow only the wealthy and nice ones to stay

Quote:

I think we should export many of the immigrants we have !!!!!!!!!!

Yeh.. FIFO?

Quote:

but Australians generally are known for being the hardest workers in the world

Have you been listening to Howard's 'Aussie values' speeches again??

Where are we known as being the hardest workers in the world? We're known for being laid back, relaxed and easy going. Certainly not as go-getters.

I've read a few reports over the last few years that have found Australians to be working longer hours than Americans, Germans and even the Japanese. I have to duck out now, but will try to find the articles online when I get back.

Quote:

Have you been listening to Howard's 'Aussie values' speeches again??

I wasn't a Howard fan - but as Jordan pointed out there have been articles and statistics over the years indicating that Australians work longer hours than those in many other countries.  Sure we have some lazy Australians - but overall we are responsible people.


Quote:

We're known for being laid back, relaxed and easy going. Certainly not as go-getters

Abu - being "laid back" isn't a bad thing.  Should Australians who have these characteristics be sent away to some uninhabited colony and replaced with new serious and frenetic foreign born Australians?  Australia hasn't the infrastructure in place to accommodate any more people at present and all Australian citizens have the right to live here and feel secure about their future - and that means jobs and housing.

I know you don't mean it - but it sounds as though you have taken a hard line approach to the standards of the average Australian.

Abu - you mentioned health care in another thread.  Australia still doesn't have adequate health care - but yes I know there are people living under desperate conditions in other countries who could only dream of living here and largely some leaders of the western world are responsible for their misery and appalling living conditions.

This is all about war and why people have to migrate to various western countries for a better life.  But it isn't working out the way it's supposed to.

Immigrants tend to be harder working and tend to create more jobs than they 'consume'.

Up until very recently it was a shortage of labour that was holding up the economy. Immigrants weren't taking jobs away. They were filling jobs that weren't being filled, keeping businesses afloat that otherwise would have gone under.

Slotting thousands upon thousands of migrants in a particular area will simply not lead to the two parties growing to like each other. If anything, if you stick a small number of that particular ethnic make-up in a particular area, chances are the locals will like and accept them more.

DT do you think the government should start telling people where they are allowed to live based on their immigration history?

Perhaps that could be true in some cases Abu - but Australians generally are known for being the hardest workers in the world.

We were. Not any more. Just like we aren't a sporting nation any more. We have an obesity epidemic.

Quote:

Abu - you mentioned health care in another thread.  Australia still doesn't have adequate health care

Adequate compared to who? Australia has pretty good health care compared to a lot of other, even Western, nations. Admittedly it was a lot more so in recent years.


Quote:

largely some leaders of the western world are responsible for their misery and appalling living conditions.

I'm glad you can see the correlation, many can't. But that isn't really the reason Western countries take in migrants. In Australia we take them in because we desperately need them. And this is sadly what DT and Phil don't understand. As I mentioned, the vast majority are on skilled migrant visas not refugees. The next largest group after that are family reunions.


Quote:

But it isn't working out the way it's supposed to.

How is it supposed to work out? And how do you think it's worked out? Surely there are some ratbags amongst migrants, as there are amongst those who migrated here a century or two before them. Do you expect every single migrant to be a model citizen, or they should be shipped back home?

Shipped back home, particularly if they are convicted of a criminal offense. We have enough ratbags who are born here that we have to keep here regardless of how they behave, I think it's sensible to get rid of ratbag immigrants.

Does this involve some kind of caste system of different 'levels' of citizenship, or are we all (except the aborigines) at risk of getting shipped back to mother england for stealing a loaf of bread?

http://www.abc.net.au/business/mnb/content/s1232103.htm

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/give-us-a-break-australia-is-hard-at-work/2005/07/06/1120329502555.html

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/08/1089000284684.html?from=storylhs

freediver wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:42pm:

Does this involve some kind of caste system of different 'levels' of citizenship, or are we all (except the aborigines) at risk of getting shipped back to mother england for stealing a loaf of bread?

No. If you're born here you stay.  :P

Quote:

No. If you're born here you stay.

Unless you're a Muslim right?

Or are you under some delusion still that all Muslims are born overseas, and any woman who wears a hijab can't speak English?

No, muslim or non-muslim. I know many muslims are born here.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 6:25am:

The vast majority of immigrants are coming on skilled migrant visas... Quote: Australia's overall migration program will now be 190,300 for this year, and 133,500 of those places will be allocated for permanent skilled migrants. Source

I guess they include 'trolley pushing' and 'taxi driving' as their list of 'skills,' Abu.

Have you had a look at the newly arrived African immigrants lately first-hand? Holy crap. Never have I seen such an unskilled bunch in my life.  



abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 6:25am:

I don't think you're worried about 'third worlders', I think you're perhaps worried about losing your job to a more skilled, harder working, less demanding foreigner.

;D  If you knew what I was doing right now, you'd probably laugh at the statement you just made too.

Anyway, I'm far too skilled, well-spoken, polite, intelligent, well-dressed, well-groomed and not to mention hygienic to worry about immigrants reducing my job opportunities, Abu. Employers would kill for an actual 'Aussie' like me. If anything, I'm sticking up for other Australians out of the goodness of my heart. Because unlike multiculturalism supporters and anti-wacists, I actually 'care' about other Australians.

The only attraction in hiring immigrants over me would be the promise of paying them less rather than hiring an expensive Aussie like myself. Sure, the employers business will suffer as a result of poor communication and efficiency. But overall they can make up for it in the long run by paying their employers less.

This, in turn, affects the living conditions of all Australians (Including perhaps even myself) by reducing the average blue collar Aussies pay to compete with the immigrants.

Like I always say, the only people who want third worlders in this country are those who own businesses and need to save a cheap buck.



freediver wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 6:25am:

Immigrants tend to be harder working and tend to create more jobs than they 'consume'.

Is that so?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/give-us-a-break-australia-is-hard-at-work/2005/07/06/1120329502555.html


Quote:

Give us a break: Australia is hard at work By Tim Colebatch Economics editor, Canberra July 7, 2005 Even with four weeks' annual leave, Australians are already the hardest-worked citizens in the Western world. We bear an average workload of 1855 hours a year - more than workers in the United States, Japan or anywhere in Europe. Workplace Relations Minister Kevin Andrews wants his changes to allow workers to swap two weeks of annual leave for money, but in fact our four weeks is already in the lower half of Western leave levels.

...Or is that just the natural assumption of the average brainwashed multiculturalism/anti-wacist moron?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 4:28pm:

Quote: No. If you're born here you stay. and any woman who wears a hijab can't speak English?

They can but curioussly many of them start speaking with the distinctive lilt of the Australian-born Lebanese (and Arabic background generally). It is quite a distinctite accent, the native speaking Australians for whom Arabic is a second laanguage and who speak Arabic to older rellies. And so even non-arab Australian women who convert to islam tend - not always, of course - to speak like that even if Arabic is not a second laguage to them.

Well done DT... aboo showed us all his ignorance via stereotypical bigotry something he continually rails against...  hypocrite that he is.

Saved me looking up the stats etc re just how hardworking Australians actually are. Gotta be right, to make up for the welfare trundled out to certain communities who abuse our good-wil and nature.

jordan484 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:53pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:42pm: Does this involve some kind of caste system of different 'levels' of citizenship, or are we all (except the aborigines) at risk of getting shipped back to mother england for stealing a loaf of bread? No. If you're born here you stay.  :P

So for immigrants, citizenship is not actually citizenship - it is only extended to their kids, effectively creating two castes.


ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 10:46pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 14th, 2008 at 6:25am: Immigrants tend to be harder working and tend to create more jobs than they 'consume'. Is that so? http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/give-us-a-break-australia-is-hard-at-work/2005/07/06/1120329502555.html Quote: Give us a break: Australia is hard at work By Tim Colebatch Economics editor, Canberra July 7, 2005 Even with four weeks' annual leave, Australians are already the hardest-worked citizens in the Western world. We bear an average workload of 1855 hours a year - more than workers in the United States, Japan or anywhere in Europe. Workplace Relations Minister Kevin Andrews wants his changes to allow workers to swap two weeks of annual leave for money, but in fact our four weeks is already in the lower half of Western leave levels. ...Or is that just the natural assumption of the average brainwashed multiculturalism/anti-wacist moron?

Uh DT, we are so hardworking as a nation because of all the immigrants. The immigratns are making up for all the lazy aussies who were 'born with silver spoon in hand'.

The fact that immigrants are harder working and create jobs for Australians is well documented.

freediver wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 3:00pm:

Uh DT, we are so hardworking as a nation because of all the immigrants. The immigratns are making up for all the lazy aussies who were 'born with silver spoon in hand'. The fact that immigrants are harder working and create jobs for Australians is well documented.

I never usually respond to you because you're annoying and you make conversations go in pointless directions, but I just have to ask...

What are you basing all that off? Seems like pretty baseless assumptions to me.

Immigrants are better educated: report

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1185325096

Migrants are better educated, more law-abiding, are generally healthier and less dependent on welfare than the average Australian-born citizen, a new report reveals.

The costs of migration were found to be low and mainly associated with migrants adjusting to Australia after their arrival.

Researchers found only a "marginal" incidence of racial prejudice to migration, which was overshadowed by a widespread appreciation of the cultural and social benefits to Australia from its migration program.

UNE professor Jim Walmsley, co-editor of the report, said there was no evidence of a "migrant underclass" or "ethnic enclave ghettos" in Australia and the report "dispelled a number of myths about the impact of migrants on the host community".

"On the contrary, the available evidence overwhelmingly supports the view that migrants to Australia have made substantial contributions to Australia's stock of human, social and produced capital," Prof Walmsley said.

Might not be here soon DT, looks like fd is out to ban me permanently.
Poor diddums.

His loss.

His latest contribution here is a prime example of someone who swallows propaganda.

Sorry...  b4 I'm ex-communicated....  this rubbish report ...

So lakemba/Bankstown/Auburn is not a ME enclave, Eastwood has no Asian enclave, Vietnamatta oops Cabramatta no Vietnamese enclave and never was the centre for drugs in Australia.  There is no little italy or Chinatown.

There were no Asian and Middle eastern Crime squads created and if they were there was no reason for it.  Certain ethnicities are not over represented in NSW gaols.

Hmmm...  apparently we in the real world don't have a clue according to this report.

ROTFLMAO  fd you have to be kidding...  hey buddy, I got a big bridge to sell you...  looks like a coathanger.  ;D

Grendel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 7:30am:

Well done DT... aboo showed us all his ignorance via stereotypical bigotry something he continually rails against...  hypocrite that he is.

Before you crawl back under that rock you call home, please, explain to us all how exactly Abu's post was 'stereotypical bigotry'. Only one bigot here and I can assure you its not him. Oh...and please, if you are going to use the term 'hypocrite' I suggest that you first go and learn its meaning.

Quote:

And so even non-arab Australian women who convert to islam tend - not always, of course - to speak like that even if Arabic is not a second laguage to them.

Yes, as do I. It's called Lebonics. What of it? In a few years we'll all be speaking it, if our grand master plan all falls into place  ;D

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 10:46pm:

;D  If you knew what I was doing right now, you'd probably laugh at the statement you just made too. Anyway, I'm far too skilled, well-spoken, polite, intelligent, well-dressed, well-groomed and not to mention hygienic to worry about immigrants reducing my job opportunities, Abu. Employers would kill for an actual 'Aussie' like me. If anything, I'm sticking up for other Australians out of the goodness of my heart. Because unlike multiculturalism supporters and anti-wacists, I actually 'care' about other Australians.

hehe...you work in IT don't you...maybe Project management but more likely architecture...or senior developer.

I can smell out fellow IT nerd from miles away....

;)

Don,

Quote:

Anyway, I'm far too skilled, well-spoken, polite, intelligent, well-dressed, well-groomed and not to mention hygienic to worry about immigrants reducing my job opportunities, Abu.

You left out modest ;)

Anyway, I don't know why you're mentioning all that stuff. All you need to recognise now is that people of other 'races' can be all those things too, including blacks and other 'third worlders', and that many of them are already actually Australians.


Quote:

Because unlike multiculturalism supporters and anti-wacists, I actually 'care' about other Australians.

Just curious Don, by Australians in that statement, do you mean all Australian citizens? Or do you just mean white-anglo Australians? Also do you recognise north-east asian Australians to be superior to you?

Aboo?

Whats up Lez...  cant work it out for yourself.

Pretty easy and almost self explanatory actually.

Tell you what. I'll give you a day and if you are still totally clueless i'll tell you.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 9:06pm:

Quote: And so even non-arab Australian women who convert to islam tend - not always, of course - to speak like that even if Arabic is not a second laguage to them. Yes, as do I. It's called Lebonics. What of it? In a few years we'll all be speaking it, if our grand master plan all falls into place  ;D

Lebonics accent - what of it? Well, it's like fat pizza - it's thick and it's cheesy...

We'll have to get Dr Higgins (or Davo) onto youse...

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=HS7pn297E9E
:P

Grendel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 10:48pm:

Aboo? Whats up Lez...  cant work it out for yourself. Pretty easy and almost self explanatory actually. Tell you what. I'll give you a day and if you are still totally clueless i'll tell you.

How bout we just cut to the chase and you just tell me now. Or do you need a day to think something up.?

LOL
You are funny.
Nope.
Knew exactly what i was talking about when i wrote it.
Only someone in denial or particularly obtuse wouldn't get it.

You still got a chance to guess.

Grendel wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 8:12am:

LOL You are funny. Nope. Knew exactly what i was talking about when i wrote it. Only someone in denial or particularly obtuse wouldn't get it. You still got a chance to guess.

There's nothing to guess. Nothing he has said could be construed as bigotted. Fact is Australians are made up of all races, religons, colours and creed, unless of course you truly believe Australians are only white anglo saxons. Only then could you possibly interpret his comments to be bigotted, which really says more about you then it does about him.

Are you a bigot?
A racist?
A culturalist?
A muslim?

All the above?

Australia is a continent on the planet.
Australians are the vast majority of the people living there.

Race is not an issue.
Culture is.

Australian is a Nationality and that Nation has a culture.  Other nationalities have their own unique culture.  Some cultures are similar.  Some are not.  Some cannot  abide others and under multiculti some are forced to tolerate others.

Australia is for all intents and purposes secular in nature.  hence its people have freedom of religion and in having such a right they should respect the rights and beliefs of others up to a point.  That point being where one religion seeks to dominate or supplant another or all others.  Currently I can only think of 1 religion that holds that tennet.

Aboo used an old stereotype of the "lazy" Australian to describe all Australians.  He was incorrect as has been clearly shown.  Also he rails against such stereotyping of muslims.  Hence he is a hypocrite too.

I hope all this hasn't taxed your brain too much.

Quote:

How is it supposed to work out? And how do you think it's worked out? Surely there are some ratbags amongst migrants, as there are amongst those who migrated here a century or two before them. Do you expect every single migrant to be a model citizen, or they should be shipped back home?

Abu - bit late to be answering this - but better late than never.  Multiculturalism had started to work in a sort of way under the Hawke/Keating government.  People in general were beginning to accept new Australians, although there was still a lot of resentment from older Australians.  Personally I didn't have any problems with it.

Unfortunately under the Howard government the old divisive racial spruiking revived its ugly head and a whole young generation was raised by the media on terrorism, too many migrants taking our jobs and how dangerous and insular different races and religions were.  I believe we are partly responsible for the violence problems we have with some of the Lebanese youth today.  They were socially excluded from their peers and most of their parents lived through wars and had difficulty assimilating. This would apply to other races also.

Remember Howard's famous words "We will decide who comes to Australia".  Those words made a huge impact on how many Australians view migrants - even older migrants whinge about the new ones.

Putting aside the above - I just think Australia has reached it's capacity for sustaining people at present.  We should be cultivating and educating those who are here now and if we want a peaceful nation - the only way to do it is for more government indoctrination via the media - but in a positive way this time.  

Actually mantra under those governments dissent was not allowed and people were vilified and discriminated against, for holding opinions that were not acceptable to the progressive left and multiculturalists.  that might be why you thought it was being accepted.  Believe me it wasnt.  Not by those of us at the coalface, and it wan't just older australians either.

I probably didn't notice because the people I worked and socialised with didn't have any issues.  To be honest all the new Australians I have ever met have always been very polite.  Any knowledge of the terrible things that are supposed to be happening are only what I see in the media.

My children have had a lot more exposure to mutliracial/religious schooling, socially and in the workplace and they don't appear to have any issues either.  

My biggest problem is overcrowding - oh and the cruel live animal export trade so the Jewish and Muslim people can eat their meat a certain way.  These animal rites should be banned here as well.

You lead a sheltered life mantra   ;D

Yes I do and I like it - although it hasn't always been that way.  Who wants confrontations, stress, resentment and anger in their lives.  If you work with people you don't like - change jobs.  If you don't like your neighbours - move.  If you don't like the country you've moved to - go back home.

There are solutions to all problems and although I haven't had the same exposure to "enclaves" the way I would have if I lived in Lakemba or Cabramatta - I have no problem with new Australians moving into my area.  If they want to talk or ask me questions - I'm always happy to have a chat - but I'm the same with everyone whether they're black, white or brindle.  I've had 3 decades to get used to multiculturalism.  We can't change it - so let's accept it.

Little old lady husband just died, 2 lebanese families 1 either side...  made her life a misery, even the police couldn't help.  She ended up selling and now lives in a home and has nervous propblems still.

The people that bought the house were friends with the other 2 families.

Actually mantra under those governments dissent was not allowed and people were vilified and discriminated against, for holding opinions that were not acceptable to the progressive left and multiculturalists.

How so? Did they laugh at you or something? How many people got jailed for voicing their disagreement with government policy?

Well I wasn't talking about me personally fd.

But everyone sane in Australia during that time knows it to be true.

Quote:

Little old lady husband just died, 2 lebanese families 1 either side...  made her life a misery, even the police couldn't help.  She ended up selling and now lives in a home and has nervous propblems still. The people that bought the house were friends with the other 2 families.

Yes I've heard this is a common occurrence, not just amongst the Lebanese - and it is unfortunate if the neighbours are terrible.  We also have "trashy 2nd, 3rd generation etc. neighbours from hell as well.

But nothing is going to change now and even those who are here and find it difficult to integrate - or even choose not to integrate -  their children will.  

Different races don't seem to be so much the problem as different religions which many are so resentful about.  Pauline Hanson didn't want any more Asians - then when she made a comeback it was Muslims.

The mistake governments have made is not the anti-vilification laws - but the different laws for the different religions.

There is only one religion I feel very resentful towards and that is the Exclusive Bretheren.  They don't have to vote or have their kids integrate with others.  We have the State & Federal Governments giving them $22 million a year - yet they boast they are wealthy and don't allow "non Bretheren" children to attend their schools.  They are not subject to our IR laws - they can virtually do their own thing.  There are suspicions of money laundering, not to mention their devious,  fraudulent persecution of a political party that doesn't suit their agenda.

Name one other religion in Australia which is such a useless and vicious drain on our society?

No mantra that is an erroneous belief...  next generation will assimilate.

This is not factual.

I know a family where 3 generations still consider themselves not Australian.

I can point to families in enclaves where they still live as they did OS.This is what mullticulti fosters.

Not integration.
Not assimilation.
Not inter-marriage.

Forget about Hanson...  she's irrelevant to the argument.

Oh and puhlease stop your stupid anti-Howard Bretheren crap.  They are the least of our worries as far as society is concerned.  There are far mor Muslims and asians etc, etc, etc, than there are Bretheren.  Their numbers don't even make up a drop in the bucket.  Stop obsessing needlessly.

Quote:

There are far mor Muslims and asians etc, etc, etc, than there are Bretheren.  Their numbers don't even make up a drop in the bucket.  Stop obsessing needlessly.

I'll stop the Bretheren crap if you stop the ON crap - deal.  As far as obsessing - this is the first time I've mentioned them in ages - but thought it was relevant.  I think you would be the one considered more obsessive about ON.  At least the feral Bretheren are still thriving.


Quote:

I know a family where 3 generations still consider themselves not Australian.

What race or religion are they?

Nope
ON or ON policy is relevant whenever I mention them.

Bretheren is some sick obsession you have.  How many members mantra?  There are probably still more ON members than bretheren.

Italian, Turkish, Lebanese...  Race?  Religion... Muslim and catholic

Quote:

Bretheren is some sick obsession you have.  How many members mantra?  There are probably still more ON members than bretheren.

Yes sure Grendel.  I've got a sick obsession with the Bretheren.  There are dozens of threads on this forum devoted to pages and pages of information about their sordid and twisted practises.

I don't think so....

Look - be realistic.  ON is no longer relevant.  No-one remembers their policies anymore and maybe once in a blue moon some miniscule reference might be made about them.

Hanson is occasionally in the news but that's because she's a "celebrity" now - not because of her history with ON.  Sorry - they're the facts.

I don't ever mention Hanson except when someone defames her or lies.

I mention the party rarely.

But every site I go to I post the truth about it.  They deserve that at least after all the lies and crap people told about them and others are still ignorant enough to believe.

My post re the party was an obit.  There are no posts re Hanson.  least not started by me.

Yes OK Grendel.  I'm glad the thread was an obituary, although it's taking a long time to be read.

But you have devoted a lot of time previously to ON & their policies and it's no big deal - but don't accuse me of obsessing over the Bretheren.  

I rarely mention them - although when the book comes out about them - maybe I should post it page by page on a thread.  Then you can call me obsessive.

The stuff I post 99% is mine mantra...

don't waste your money on a book about a teeny tiny cult.

Grendel wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 2:32pm:

Well I wasn't talking about me personally fd. But everyone sane in Australia during that time knows it to be true.

Speak for yourself eh Grendel. Or, you could back up those claims. So, other than laughing at you, what did they actually do? Were people assassinated for speaking out? Were people jailed for having the wrong views? It sounds to me like you are just bitter for having your views exposed for what they are, so you are building some absurd conspiracy around it.

I could post hundreds of articles backing that up if you like.

Oh dear are you name calling and personally criticising me?

Hanson (sorry mantra) he forced my hand.  Was brought up to face the discrimination board several times and was exonerated each time.

Ever hear of the two Danny's?

People trying to attend ON meetings were bashed.

I'm sure just about everyone except you is aware of the realities fd.

The R word was tossed around so much in those days it almost became redundant.  Keating used it continuously.  Hawke used it with disdain to silence criticism of government policy.  Howard was attacked.  Blainey was attacked.  The list goes on and on.

maybe you were too young eh?

mantra,


Quote:

I believe we are partly responsible for the violence problems we have with some of the Lebanese youth today.

Yeh a lot of them do feel outcast and rejected, even if they've been born and grown up here. But I think that will change quite quickly, so long as Rudd tries to tone things down a little, and doesn't resort to playing the terrorism card all the time like his predecessor. Did you see programs like the one where they got some Lebanese youth to sign up to become lifesavers? It wasn't a great success, but there seemed to be some progress. And some other councils are starting to take initiatives like this, to help the youth become better acquainted with one another, and break down some of the barriers.

Most Lebanese are pretty nice and friendly people. I lived for some time in Lakemba before, and never had any problems whatsoever. I am a Muslim admittedly, but they weren't necessarily all to know that. But there certainly are some troublemakers amongst them, however I don't think necessarily any more than there is amongst Greeks, Italians, Macedonians or indeed Anglos.


Quote:

Remember Howard's famous words "We will decide who comes to Australia".  Those words made a huge impact on how many Australians view migrants - even older migrants whinge about the new ones.

Yeh not to mention the fact that sometimes we see/hear the most ludicrous media reports about Muslims especially on the poor excuses for current affairs programs we currently have. Sometimes I listen to the radio or watch the news and just think, that they're searching every corner of the globe just to dig up some dirt on Muslims. It's not always like that, but it seems at certain 'strategic' times there's an increase in such reports.... Surely there's some agenda behind it.


Quote:

Putting aside the above - I just think Australia has reached it's capacity for sustaining people at present.

No way, Australia is perhaps the most underpopulated country in the world. This country can sustain a lot more people, comfortably & without reduction in living standards, quite easily I think. We need more people to continue our growth, and the government well knows this, that's why they continue the migrant intake as aggressively as they do, even under Howard. To cut it significantly or stop it altogether would be very detrimental to Australia's growth. Sadly people like Grendel, DT and Phil cannot see this, as they're too blinded by their 'third worlder' prejudices. Although I'm sure they'd accept it if we returned the "White Australia" policy, or perhaps Phil would accept it if we took in only North East Asians, who he admits are the superior race.


Quote:

We should be cultivating and educating those who are here now and if we want a peaceful nation - the only way to do it is for more government indoctrination via the media

I don't know about now, but when I was at school back in the late 80's and early 90's, the curriculum was very pro-multiculturism, but I guess that was the Hawke-Keating days. Has it changed that much since then? Anyway, hopefully local councils can be a bit more involved in bridging the gaps and organising events that encourage interaction between different groups and sectors of society.

I remember during the Camden affair recently, watching some redneck hick on TV stating "We don't want them here, they're the kinda people that don't even come up to ya on the street and say G'day", and I wondered if this guy had ever even seen a Muslim before in his life, let alone had a chance to see if they are good greeters or not (actually they're generally excessive greeters).

freediver wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 3:39pm:

Immigrants are better educated: report http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1185325096 Migrants are better educated, more law-abiding, are generally healthier and less dependent on welfare than the average Australian-born citizen, a new report reveals. The costs of migration were found to be low and mainly associated with migrants adjusting to Australia after their arrival. Researchers found only a "marginal" incidence of racial prejudice to migration, which was overshadowed by a widespread appreciation of the cultural and social benefits to Australia from its migration program. UNE professor Jim Walmsley, co-editor of the report, said there was no evidence of a "migrant underclass" or "ethnic enclave ghettos" in Australia and the report "dispelled a number of myths about the impact of migrants on the host community". "On the contrary, the available evidence overwhelmingly supports the view that migrants to Australia have made substantial contributions to Australia's stock of human, social and produced capital," Prof Walmsley said.

Where in that 'solitary' report does it say that migrants are 'harder workers?'


And are you sure that report is accurate? I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that third world immigrants are healthier than Australians.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/thenextgr/black_guy_missing_teeth.jpg

You are also not taking into account that immigrants from rich nations are included in the report, FD. Such as those from Britain, America, South Africa and New Zealand.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 6:51pm:

Yeh a lot of them do feel outcast and rejected, even if they've been born and grown up here. But I think that will change quite quickly, so long as Rudd tries to tone things down a little, and doesn't resort to playing the terrorism card all the time like his predecessor. Did you see programs like the one where they got some Lebanese youth to sign up to become lifesavers? It wasn't a great success, but there seemed to be some progress. And some other councils are starting to take initiatives like this, to help the youth become better acquainted with one another, and break down some of the barriers.

I honestly don't believe things will ever 'calm down,' Abu. Compare it to East Asians who were vilified for years. The Greeks and Italians. They never took it to the extent that Muslims/Lebanese youth have. It's simply part of their (Muslims in general) culture to act like stubborn, arrogant jerk-offs. The sooner their culture and values are taken away, the sooner things will calm down. I'm afraid this won't happen anytime soon though, with vile pieces of crap in our Universities continuing to corrupt Australian youth explaining how misunderstood Islam is and how 'great' multiculturalism is. I don't 'hate' Islam, immigrants or other races at all. It's the ideological pieces of krap in our Universities, Government and churches that preach this sh1te that need to be severely dealt with.



abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 6:51pm:

Most Lebanese are pretty nice and friendly people. I lived for some time in Lakemba before, and never had any problems whatsoever. I am a Muslim admittedly, but they weren't necessarily all to know that. But there certainly are some troublemakers amongst them, however I don't think necessarily any more than there is amongst Greeks, Italians, Macedonians or indeed Anglos.

I don't think Lebanese people are very nice. And yes, I have met quite a few in my time.

Yes, Abu is a Muslim. So I don't think anybody should consider Abu's opinion seriously on the matter. After all, Abu himself has often said on the Islamic board that it's part of Islamic 'etiquette' to 'stick up for your own.'



abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 6:51pm:

Yeh not to mention the fact that sometimes we see/hear the most ludicrous media reports about Muslims especially on the poor excuses for current affairs programs we currently have. Sometimes I listen to the radio or watch the news and just think, that they're searching every corner of the globe just to dig up some dirt on Muslims. It's not always like that, but it seems at certain 'strategic' times there's an increase in such reports.... Surely there's some agenda behind it.

Give me a break, Abu. The baseless, positive stories about Muslims are endless.

I'm sick to death of people trying to use the old, 'it's the media's fault Muslims are acting so bad because they are so harshly criticized.' Every multiculturalist prick under the sun defends Islam left, right and centre every day because of their bigoted multiculturalist ideologies. I can link you to a million articles explaining how misunderstood and 'great' ISlam is. Fact is, there are fairly balanced stories out there concerning Muslims. You just choose not to see it though, because everytime Muslims bugger up something in this country, you can just use the old, 'it's the media's fault' argument.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 6:51pm:

Quote: Putting aside the above - I just think Australia has reached it's capacity for sustaining people at present. No way, Australia is perhaps the most underpopulated country in the world. This country can sustain a lot more people, comfortably & without reduction in living standards, quite easily I think. We need more people to continue our growth, and the government well knows this, that's why they continue the migrant intake as aggressively as they do, even under Howard. To cut it significantly or stop it altogether would be very detrimental to Australia's growth. Sadly people like Grendel, DT and Phil cannot see this, as they're too blinded by their 'third worlder' prejudices. Although I'm sure they'd accept it if we returned the "White Australia" policy, or perhaps Phil would accept it if we took in only North East Asians, who he admits are the superior race.

Hmm. You do realise that water in Melbourne and other major metropolitan areas have almost run dry, right? And this tends to be where Muslims and other third worlders tend to nest and breed, right?

In all honesty, Abu, I would love to see Australia adopt a modified White Australia Policy again. Not because I necessarily 'hate' all the people coming in, but I see the more practical ramifications of such a move.



abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 6:51pm:

Quote: We should be cultivating and educating those who are here now and if we want a peaceful nation - the only way to do it is for more government indoctrination via the media I don't know about now, but when I was at school back in the late 80's and early 90's, the curriculum was very pro-multiculturism, but I guess that was the Hawke-Keating days. Has it changed that much since then? Anyway, hopefully local councils can be a bit more involved in bridging the gaps and organising events that encourage interaction between different groups and sectors of society. I remember during the Camden affair recently, watching some redneck hick on TV stating "We don't want them here, they're the kinda people that don't even come up to ya on the street and say G'day", and I wondered if this guy had ever even seen a Muslim before in his life, let alone had a chance to see if they are good greeters or not (actually they're generally excessive greeters).

Yes, multiculturalism propaganda and brainwashing has increased in our schools, Abu.

I don't think a few culture festivals will solve anything, Abu.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 9:51pm:

Don, Quote: Anyway, I'm far too skilled, well-spoken, polite, intelligent, well-dressed, well-groomed and not to mention hygienic to worry about immigrants reducing my job opportunities, Abu. You left out modest ;) Anyway, I don't know why you're mentioning all that stuff. All you need to recognise now is that people of other 'races' can be all those things too, including blacks and other 'third worlders', and that many of them are already actually Australians. [quote]Because unlike multiculturalism supporters and anti-wacists, I actually 'care' about other Australians.

Just curious Don, by Australians in that statement, do you mean all Australian citizens? Or do you just mean white-anglo Australians? Also do you recognise north-east asian Australians to be superior to you?[/quote]

I forgot to mention I'm more honest, better looking, charming and yes, modest in real life. Overwhelmingly, I have more integrity. Trust me on that last point.

I doubt people from the Middle-East or Africa can live up to all of these standards.

'Australians' to me are people of European ethnicity with European culture embedded in them.

Otherwise, you're simply an African that just so happened to be born in Australia, or a Middle Eastern guy who's mother and dad had sex on Australian soil. Nothing much, really. Not that I have anything against these people. They can't help where they were born. But they should have a good idea where they 'belong.'

Or even worse (The scumbags of all scumbags) (The dishourable of all dishonourables) (The leeches of all leeches) (0 integrity) an ethnic European who's turned his back on his own culture and adopted another culture. -And I have a funny feeling, Abu, you're one of those scumbags. Please say it ain't so, I'm mistaken and that you're not one of those scumbags and you're simply of Middle-Eastern ethnicity living in Australia.


You seem so keen to make all us wacists admit that East-Asians are so superior in intelligence.  ;D Pretty humourous really, if that's the best argument you've got.

ANITA COBBY?
John Travers?
Michael Murdoch?
Murphy boys, Les, Michael and Gary?

Send them back?

rotflmao

aboo...  
Quote:

No way, Australia is perhaps the most underpopulated country in the world. This country can sustain a lot more people, comfortably & without reduction in living standards, quite easily I think.

You think.

Sydney is at capacity.  Melbourne's starting to have problems.
We have severe infrastructure deficits.
water crisis.
salinity crisis.
we live on the most arid populated continent on the planet.

you think we should have lots more people?  why because Australia is sooooo big.

Good grief.
It's mostly desert or too dry to sustain a population.

Where do they come from DT?

I reckon we should make them city slickers to build a wall around themselves, the wall without a gate. Let them sort it out amongst themselves in their concrete jungles.

Don,

Quote:

It's simply part of their (Muslims in general) culture to act like stubborn, arrogant jerk-offs.

As I've lived amongst Muslims (at times, in their 'ghettoes') for the past 10 years, I can tell you now, those Lebanese youth who go around causing problems have got nothing at all to do with Muslim culture. They are the youth who are furthest away from Islam, and who in fact are in the process of adopting Australian culture, freedoms, alcohol, drugs, open-sex etc. And you must also recognise that many of them are not Lebanese Muslims anyway, they're Lebanese Christians.

Lebanese Muslims who actually adhere to Muslim culture are generally very nice and sincere people, and obviously wouldn't be at beaches hassling bikini-clad girls or picking fights at nightclubs. To suggest otherwise is really quite disingenius.


Quote:

The sooner their culture and values are taken away, the sooner things will calm down

This is your false hope? As noted above, those who abandon their Muslim culture are the troublemakers. Those who adhere to it, are generally very positive contributors to Australian society.

However, I would suggest what must be abandoned is their attachment to nationalism for their former land. And that's quite in line with Islamic principles. Those Lebanese youth who are marauding around in gangs, are a mixture of Muslim and Christian backgrounds, their common bond with one another is being from Lebanon, not sharing the same religion. And this bond, I agree, should be dissolved.


Quote:

I don't 'hate' Islam, immigrants or other races at all. It's the ideological pieces of krap in our Universities, Government and churches that preach this sh1te that need to be severely dealt with.

Admit it you do hate them, you just hate those, from your own ranks, who justify them being here more...


Quote:

I can link you to a million articles explaining how misunderstood and 'great' ISlam is.

The few positive articles are heavily outnumbered and you know it, and most of the positive ones are just aimed at dividing Muslims anyway by promoting the RAND groupings. Show me 3 positive articles in Australia's media about Islam in the past week. I guarantee you I can find double that number of negative articles.


Quote:

Hmm. You do realise that water in Melbourne and other major metropolitan areas have almost run dry, right?

The water crises is passing, it's cyclic, and always has been. Unortunately we haven't been managing it as well as we should've been during the last iteration of that cycle. Also you must realise we waste a helluva lot of water, and we need to learn to adjust our lifestyles, immigrants or not.


Quote:

And this tends to be where Muslims and other third worlders tend to nest and breed, right?

You've raised a good point here (even though I really dislike your labels, please find it in your heart to dispense with them), that migrants do tend to aggregate around the major urban centres. I think something like a mandatory period in a country area might be a good idea. Help save some of those dying towns. This has been trialled on a small scale and has been found to work. Might also help to break down some of the cultural barriers and help all Australians, new and old, interact better :)


Quote:

I would love to see Australia adopt a modified White Australia Policy again.

If you want to live in a white country perhaps you should migrate to Scandanavia or Russia? Australia just isn't going to be a white-only country, like it or lump it.


Quote:

'Australians' to me are people of European ethnicity with European culture embedded in them.

That Australia is long gone, sorry mate.


Quote:

Otherwise, you're simply an African that just so happened to be born in Australia

Actually you're just a 'Briton that happened to be born in this aboriginal country' (or replace with whatever your background is). All Australians, apart from the Aboriginals are recent arrivals. Not much difference between 20 years and 150 years, when you compare it to 40,000 years....


Quote:

They can't help where they were born. But they should have a good idea where they 'belong.'

Well in that case you should realise you belong back in England, not here. Or lets go back further, as our ancestors actually invaded England too, you belong in Germany, or even further the Caucasus mountains or even further Persia perhaps?


Quote:

an ethnic European who's turned his back on his own culture and adopted another culture. -And I have a funny feeling, Abu, you're one of those scumbags. Please say it ain't so, I'm mistaken and that you're not one of those scumbags and you're simply of Middle-Eastern ethnicity living in Australia.

I already told you quite clearly before that I am an Anglo-Australian. If the fact that I don't wanna continue living my life in a culture of alcoholism and depraved sexual promiscuity and so forth means I have 0 integrity in your eyes, so be it. I'm glad.


Quote:

You seem so keen to make all us wacists admit that East-Asians are so superior in intelligence.

Was it you? or Phil who claimed they were? Just humouring you in your assertion that intelligence is race based. Just like you look down to the races less intelligent than you, so you must look up to those more intelligent than you, and accept their disdain for your lack of intelligence.

I could post hundreds of articles backing that up if you like.

How about you start with just one Grendel.

Actually mantra under those governments dissent was not allowed

You also claimed that everyone knows this. Crap.

The R word was tossed around so much in those days it almost became redundant.

So what? You think that calling people names is somehow equivalent to not allowing dissent? You seem to be confusing freedom of speech with censorship. Freedom of speech does not mean people have to respond to your rants with 'jolly good, well done old chap, you've convinced us now'.

Where in that 'solitary' report does it say that migrants are 'harder workers?'

How about the bit where it says they are less dependent on welfare?

Was that more personal abuse fd?
Are you obsessed?
Or just mad.

Funnily enough suddenly I cant cut and paste anything in here.
But be sure that I will as soon as I can.

oh and fd...  kindly keep quotes I don't make out of posts that clearly are aimed at me or differentiate whom it is you are talking to.

educate yourself...

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~natinfo/taking2.htm

Multiculturalists and the outlawing of dissent

The purpose of Multiculturalists legislating against free speech, using so-called "Racial Vilification" laws is to crush the opposition of Australians to the Asianisation of their country. A major aim of racial vilification legislation is to complement the social intimidation which already greets anyone, particularly in public office, who dares to criticise matters connected to immigration and Multiculturalism. These political laws are not, as various politicians have suggested, to stop illegal behaviour against minorities - as such behaviour is already covered by existing legislation, such as laws relating to offensive behaviour, assault and battery, defacing property, incitement to riot, etc.

The Establishment proclaims "democracy" and "freedom of speech" when such posturing serves its purpose, and for ordinary matters these ideals are basically observed, but when its liberal-internationalist creed is threatened - then its "true colours" are revealed.

While the System claims it is democratic, it actually has a hidden tyrannical, or quasi-fascist, nature. This is why it deliberately continues mass Asian immigration, even when it is widely known that most Australians oppose it; and this is why they try to silence, or crush, the activities of Australian patriots and nationalists, because they fear the potential of these groups.

Multiculturalism cannot stand up to close scrutiny and criticism, and that is why it is a creed that can only exist by creating a climate of fear and intimidation amongst ordinary citizens. Multiculturalism is an authoritarian ideology, full of evil, hatred, and loathing, whilst posing as a creature of beauty, light, and love - it is truly a slavering wolf in sheep's clothing.

The creed of Multiculturalism is so self-righteous, and so authoritarian, that almost any form of repression and thought-control is justified in the name of 'rooting out prejudice'.

The anti-democratic nature of the Multiculturalists is shown by their moves against free speech, and their wish to jail opponents of their ideology by using Nazi-style laws thinly disguised as "racial vilification legislation", as well as by various other underhanded sly moves towards silencing political and social dissent.

Crap. It's easy to criticise immigration policy without falling foul of the racial vilification laws.

and...

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~natinfo@ozemail.com.au/mc2.htm


DESTROYING THE AUSTRALIAN IDENTITY

The aim of multiculturalism is, in effect, to destroy the Australian national and cultural identity. This intended destruction is being carried out by a two pronged attack:

Firstly, the Australian identity is denied. Many academics, trendies and "lefties" maintain that Australia does not have its own national and cultural identity. They argue that Australian culture is either "British", or a multicultural mish-mash; they tell us that Australia has no culture of its own.

Ignored are the poets like Henry Lawson, Banjo Paterson, Rex Ingamells and Mary Gilmore; painters like Arthur Streeton, Frederick McCubbin, Sydney Nolan and Russell Drysdale; architecture such as the Federation style; music from Waltzing Matilda to the Seekers, to the Bushwackers, to Skyhooks; our heroes and heroines, for instance, Ned Kelly, Nellie Melba, Don Bradman, the ANZACs, and the men of the Kokoda Track; the Australian way of life, including the bush barbeque, Australian Rules Football, and games of Two-Up; Australian icons such as Vegemite, Goanna Oil, Hills Hoists, and Akubra hats; our entertainers and characters like Ginger Meggs, Chips Rafferty, Paul Hogan, Dame Edna Everage and Sir Les Patterson; our distinctive language, accent, and colloquialisms; the Australian character, styled as easy-going, fair and democratic, having a healthy disrespect for authority, and with a laconic humour; all shaped and influenced by the distinctive Australian landscape and our unique history.

Secondly, the destruction of our identity is being carried out by multiculturalism itself. From politicians and academics comes the cry "we are all ethnics", no-one is an actual Australian - everyone is an "ethnic". The origin of your parents or forebears dictates what type of "ethnic" you are: if you have English parents then you're an English "ethnic", if you have Irish parents then you're an Irish "ethnic", German parentage produces a German "ethnic", and so on. If one parent is French, and the other Russian, then it could be assumed that you have to pick just one ethnicity, or perhaps you could become a multicultural schizophrenic? Australia's culture is being undermined by the effects of the continual push for multiculturalism (especially in our educational institutions); we are now being taught to see ourselves as "ethnics", rather than as Australians, and this cannot help but to adversely affect our national cultural output and development.

The most serious aspect of all this is that of education. It is during the formative years of our young children that they are heavily indoctrinated by the education system into believing in multiculturalism (such indoctrination being made by both subtle means and overt means). No opposing viewpoints are given any credible airing (if given any "airing" at all), and multiculturalism is presented as a fact, rather than as a particular biased political viewpoint.

What began as a trendy liberalistic idea, and was picked up and carried along as a "migrant vote winner" for politicians, has become a huge menace to Australia's society and its culture.

Lol

honestly don't you read or are you completely ignorant?

I already mentioned hanson and the 2 dannys.

How many people are willing to risk the "attention" they took on?

better to remain silent.

So your criticism is not that the government has actually banned dissent, but that people are not very nice to them?

Grendel wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 11:45am:

and... http://members.ozemail.com.au/~natinfo@ozemail.com.au/mc2.htm DESTROYING THE AUSTRALIAN IDENTITY The aim of multiculturalism is, in effect, to destroy the Australian national and cultural identity. This intended destruction is being carried out by a two pronged attack: Firstly, the Australian identity is denied. Many academics, trendies and "lefties" maintain that Australia does not have its own national and cultural identity. They argue that Australian culture is either "British", or a multicultural mish-mash; they tell us that Australia has no culture of its own. Ignored are the poets like Henry Lawson, Banjo Paterson, Rex Ingamells and Mary Gilmore; painters like Arthur Streeton, Frederick McCubbin, Sydney Nolan and Russell Drysdale; architecture such as the Federation style; music from Waltzing Matilda to the Seekers, to the Bushwackers, to Skyhooks; our heroes and heroines, for instance, Ned Kelly, Nellie Melba, Don Bradman, the ANZACs, and the men of the Kokoda Track; the Australian way of life, including the bush barbeque, Australian Rules Football, and games of Two-Up; Australian icons such as Vegemite, Goanna Oil, Hills Hoists, and Akubra hats; our entertainers and characters like Ginger Meggs, Chips Rafferty, Paul Hogan, Dame Edna Everage and Sir Les Patterson; our distinctive language, accent, and colloquialisms; the Australian character, styled as easy-going, fair and democratic, having a healthy disrespect for authority, and with a laconic humour; all shaped and influenced by the distinctive Australian landscape and our unique history. Secondly, the destruction of our identity is being carried out by multiculturalism itself. From politicians and academics comes the cry "we are all ethnics", no-one is an actual Australian - everyone is an "ethnic". The origin of your parents or forebears dictates what type of "ethnic" you are: if you have English parents then you're an English "ethnic", if you have Irish parents then you're an Irish "ethnic", German parentage produces a German "ethnic", and so on. If one parent is French, and the other Russian, then it could be assumed that you have to pick just one ethnicity, or perhaps you could become a multicultural schizophrenic? Australia's culture is being undermined by the effects of the continual push for multiculturalism (especially in our educational institutions); we are now being taught to see ourselves as "ethnics", rather than as Australians, and this cannot help but to adversely affect our national cultural output and development. The most serious aspect of all this is that of education. It is during the formative years of our young children that they are heavily indoctrinated by the education system into believing in multiculturalism (such indoctrination being made by both subtle means and overt means). No opposing viewpoints are given any credible airing (if given any "airing" at all), and multiculturalism is presented as a fact, rather than as a particular biased political viewpoint. What began as a trendy liberalistic idea, and was picked up and carried along as a "migrant vote winner" for politicians, has become a huge menace to Australia's society and its culture.

I liked it better when you couldn't cut and paste ,boofy, cant you just put up a link? by you posting all your gander it just makes it tempting to read, and then I just get dissapointed at the fact it is just more biggoted hatred at those a little different to yourself.

and...

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/pc/multi3.htm

and...

http://jimball.com.au/Multi_C.htm

and...

http://www.ipa.org.au/news/527/popular-support-not-required/pg/2

Another lovely little nugget from the book is how the tactic of accusing critics and opponents of racism was established almost before multiculturalism itself as a term was. Then and since, multiculturalism has often provided examples of what might be called the motivational fallacy. In the case of multiculturalism, the fallacy works as follows: I advocate multiculturalism as a way of combating racism and prejudice, therefore, if you criticise multiculturalism you are guilty of racism and/or harbouring prejudice. This has a triple benefit as a mode of argument. It delegitimises critics and criticism, it elevates the mode of action or claim being defended and it establishes or reinforces that action or claim as a moral asset for its proponents.

Lopez shows how tarring critics of multiculturalism as racist was helped by Al Grassby having been subjected to a nasty campaign by racist splinter groups prior to losing his rural New South Wales seat in 1974 as payback for his abolition of the lingering remnants of the White Australia policy. That racists hate multiculturalism provides and provided guilt by association for other critics.

need I say more...?

Oh dear...  fd asks for stuff and squippy complains about stuff...  hmmm.

Squippy...  and they wonder why I call some people idiots...

That dear rooboy was a teeny tiny excerpt.

Those interested can use the link to better inform themselves.
Something you should consider doing but then we both know that would just be a waste of time anyway.

So dissent was never actually banned under certain governments as you claimed it was?

Grendel wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:19pm:

Oh dear...  fd asks for stuff and squippy complains about stuff...  hmmm. Squippy...  and they wonder why I call some people idiots... That dear rooboy was a teeny tiny excerpt. Those interested can use the link to better inform themselves. Something you should consider doing but then we both know that would just be a waste of time anyway.

Thats right, I leave that to the rightard gullible bigots who believe the crap.

Please don't make this personal skippy.

You gonna ban him?
Delete his useless comments?
Or let this turn into a flame-a-thon.

I'll get back to you and your rubbish shortly.

Would you prefer I banned people as a first response rather than giving them warnings?

lol
I never said dissent was banned.  YOU did...  another misquote.

Laws and tribunals were created to censor and stifle dissent and debate.  Name-calling and negative labelling was used to intimidate and silence.

Perhaps you shouldn't talk about things you are ignorant of...  or just accept the truth from people who know better and were there at the time.

It was unacceptable to the Left and to Multiculturalists to dissent from their POV...  it was not allowed to go unremarked, unpunished, un-libelled or un-slandered....  people were censored and example made of those who spoke out.  In their case....  the political cost made cowards of them all.  Nearly all and for a good many years.  Campbell was tossed out of the Labor party.  Blainey made an academic pariah.  Howard sent to the political wilderness for years.

Hanson should have sued...  so should everyone else treated similarly.  Luckily for some Parliamentary privilege lets one get away with many things.

To be in denial of these things and the prevailing atmosphere in society in general at the time is to be ignorant or a liar.

So you've changed your mind now? Dissent was allowed?

I don't believe in banning...  unless they are destroying a site.

I do believe in deleting real rubbish though that is not on topic.
Its like grafitti... you keep deleting it most people get the hint and stop...  squippy?  you'll just have to keep deleting.

So you think people should be censored for straying off topic?

Oh you mean I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS BANNED AFTER ALL.....

YOU ARE FUNNY...  no apology for the misquote then?   ;D ;D ;D

No it wasn't allowed in those circles at all and it wasn't TOLERATED...  rabid and feral responses followed.  Funny isn't it the champions of TOLERANCE totally INTOLERANT!!!!!!

Murder isn't allowed, stealing isn't allowed...  yet they still happen.  Good grief.

If it was allowed we would have had a proper open public debate.  But anyone dissenting was called a racist.  So everyone quickly knew what subject wasn't allowed to be discussed or dissented from.

Hanson was howled down as a racist the first time she opened her mouth.  DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING?

When were you born?

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:25pm:

Please don't make this personal skippy.

I didn't, thats why I never mentioned his name.

You want to discuss your policies...  then theres the feedback topic right.
If I was interested in your sites internal politics...  i'd comment there..  

You can delete this comment if you wish its off topic and so was the question prompting it.

and you were wrong again Squippy..  which is why you never debate the substance of anything.  just abuse the messnger.

Grendel wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:21pm:

and you were wrong again Squippy..  which is why you never debate the substance of anything.  just abuse the messnger.

No need to keep trolling me boof, I told you ,I dont read fiction.

So it wasn't banned, but it was not allowed either? Was it in some kind of legal netherworld?

What is 'proper debate'? What should people be banned from saying so that you can have a proper debate where your view is taken seriously?

dwmt fd...  I told you start another topic if you want my opinion on something else.

skippy  :D

I've heard the term "not allowed" used in colloquial speech many times...  figuratively and in other ways.  Your pathetic attempt at pedantry to weasel out of a point will not work.

I've already unnecessarily explained myself.

You now have to disprove my points...  something you are avoiding or cannot do.  I fancy it is a bit of both.

back on topic...

THE UNDEMOCRATIC NATURE OF ASIANISATION

The Asianisation of Australia will mean the destruction of our national identity and culture.

It is also a fact that the Australian people never asked for this process of Asianisation; nor were any referendums ever carried out; nor were the people - as a whole - ever consulted. The reason for this is simple: the Government knows that most Australians are opposed to the Asianisation of their country. Therefore, this policy has been carried out by subterfuge and stealth; by lying and cunning; by knowingly ignoring the wishes of the community - therefore implementing a process which is one of the most evil and undemocratic actions in Australia's history.

The undemocratic nature of the implementation of the Asianisation of Australia can been seen in the following notes:

1) Refusal to hold a referendum. There have been various calls for a referendum on the subject of immigration, but all of the major political parties have refused or ignored these calls. They know what the outcome would be. In 1988, one opinion poll showed that 70% of Australians thought that we should hold a national referendum on immigration policy".

2) Give little or no publicity to organisations opposing Asianisation. It is an established media tactic to give little or no coverage to organisations opposing Asianisation and Multiculturalism. Many media outlets follow this tactic; and in those rare instances where coverage is given, it is almost always negative.

3) The media's "conspiracy of silence". As the editor of The Australian Financial Review once admitted, the media in Australia have co-operated with the government in maintaining a "conspiracy of silence" in relation to immigration policies.

4) The Government's "conspiracy of silence". In 1993 Bob Hawke, former Labor Prime Minister, confirmed that "the major parties had reached an implicit pact to keep immigration off the political agenda". The major political parties have been prepared to impose mass Asian immigration upon our nation, to advance the interests of their cosmopolitan-internationalist beliefs, despite their knowledge that most Australians opposed their plans).

5) Government-approved "brainwashing". The Sydney Morning Herald exposed how "The Department of Immigration had a plan to feed themes sympathetic to immigrants into popular television soap operas". The intent was (and is) to use television as a propaganda tool for the promotion of Australia's "Asian Future" and to try to create an atmosphere of acceptance for the increasing Asian proportion of our population.

Australians can only wonder as to what other amazing plans the Department of Immigration, and other government departments, have "cooked up" in order to indoctrinate and "brainwash" the public into accepting Asianisation and Multiculturalism.

6) "Brainwashing" via advertising and the media. Various government institutions give "positive discrimination" (a euphemism for discrimination against Australians) to Asian immigrants; and, in matters of public propaganda, often seek to have Asian ethnics portrayed in disproportionate numbers or "in a positive light".

7) Covering up research results; and the suppression of intellectual dissent. On several occasions over the years, studies have been kept hidden from public view because their results were not in accordance with what the government expected.

8) Bans on so-called "racist" immigrants. In 1987, it was revealed that intending immigrants have to undergo a "rigorous settlement assessment to screen out extremists, including racists, holding views inconsistent with Australia's multi-cultural and multi-racial society". Of course, to cosmopolitan-internationalists, anyone who opposes Multiculturalism is an "extremist".

9) "Brainwashing" of students. Trainee teachers are unofficially screened for so-called "racist" views (the same often applies to other positions within the public service). Teachers are also well-trained in Multiculturalism, and are encouraged to promote internationalism; both philosophies which have only one end for Australia: Asianisation. To this end, teachers are "armed" by internal training sessions, special journal articles, and even entire books (for example, Anti-Racism: A Handbook for Adult Educators, all of which have been developed to help brainwash students (euphemistically called "shaping students' attitudes") into the doctrine of Multiculturalism (and hence, our "Asian Future"). Teachers seize upon the opportunity to preach multiculturalism in a whole range of classes.

As Donald Horne has stated: "I agree with Al Grassby that one of the great battles for multiculturalism must be fought in the schools".

10) Willingness to ignore democracy. In order to carry out their anti-Australian policies, the cosmopolitan-internationalists of the Establishment are quite prepared to cast democracy aside in pursuit of their goals. Cosmopolitan-internationalists believe that, no matter what 75% of Australians believe regarding immigration, the self-given duty of the Establishment's media and politicians is to press on with immigration policies that are opposed by the majority of Australians.

11) Racial vilification laws, and the silencing of dissent.
"We will not allow to become a political issue in this country the question of Asianisation" - Bob Hawke, 1984 (then Labor Prime Minister).

http://ausfirst.alphalink.com.au/campbell1.html

We on the moderate nationalist side of politics welcome the give-and-take of political debate. We believe that our position is the best reasoned and can only benefit from exposure, but our opponents demand a monopoly in the media and in our parliaments. They fear the voices who stand up for Australia’s predominant ethnic interest – those of Anglo Celt and European background. We have seen this intolerance demonstrated incrementally by the chorus of denunciations of Professor Blainey in 1984 and John Howard in 1988. I then became a target for my support of Australians Against Further Immigration in the early 1990’s, Australia First, and in more recent times of Pauline Hanson and One Nation. Bob Hawke had me censured by the Parliament for saying that we should slow down the rate of South East Asian immigration to a level that we could accommodate. It did not occur to me that this was racist as I considered it common sense. This crescendo of intolerance has been building, ironically but aptly, since 1984.

so you were ignorant of this fd?

At least DT and Phil admit they're racists.

Well I would if I was....
what are you?

Oh and flaming me wont get you goodie points aboo-rabid old mate.