I asked this question of sprintcyclist in the ISRAEL/PALESTINE thread, but have not as yet had an answer, I'm assuming you didn't notice my post amongst the multitude of other posts, so here it is for you again sprint:


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Sprint I have a question for you. You support the invasion/occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan right? Do you believe in the saying of Jesus (pbuh) that are in your Bible, "Turn the other cheek"? If so, how do you reconcile this with your support of these wars? Shouldn't America and the rest of the Christian world be "Turning the other cheek"? Or does this only apply when you want it to?

Hi Abu ,
How are you ? I did notice your query, but it was buried under all other comments.
As you have done, better to post specific threads for specific queries.
Otherwise things roam wildly offtopic and are lost.


Yes, I support the protective actions taken by much of the free world to give iraq democracy and quash terrorism in afghanistan.

Does that about answer your query ?


Christianity pertains to individuals, it is not an entire political/social/economic system.
USA is not a christian society - it is a capitalist democracy. As is all of the free world.

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Yes, I support the protective actions taken by much of the free world to give iraq democracy and quash terrorism in afghanistan... ..Christianity pertains to individuals, it is not an entire political/social/economic system.

Why does the teaching of Christ not apply here? I'm sorry I  still don't understand.

Either you believe in the teaching of Christ (pbuh), or you don't. You can't selectively decide when and where you're going to apply it. If he taught Christians to behave like that, then you should follow it, if you truly believed in it, you would follow it, otherwise it seems you just follow whatever suits your desires and circumstances at the time.

I accept that you cannot control the government as an individual, but we're talking about your personal view towards the situation here, not the political/social/economic response of the governments involved. You, as an individual who claims to believe in teachings of Christ (pbuh) should surely adhere to those teachings in your own personal view, otherwise it would tend to indicate that you don't hold them as teachings you have moulded your lie around, and I thought that's how Christians viewed their religion? I was under the impression that Christianity is a relationship with a personal living God, and that you receive the Holy Spirit into your soul and this is what causes you to behave and act and believe and feel in a manner that conforms to the teachings of Christ?

If this is wrong, please clarify exact what it means to receive the Holy Spirit and to embrace the teachings of Christ.

If you can sprint, please provide a more detailed explanation for your view. Don't be afraid to type :)

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USA is not a christian society - it is a capitalist democracy. As is all of the free world

Whilst I agree with you to some extent, the USA is not a country that implements the teachings of Christ, Bush, and other senior figures have quite clearly stated that this is linked to Christianity when he referred to it as a "War of the Cross" (Crusade). Also see the Dalai Lama thread for an image of an officially sanctioned naming of a US tank in Iraq "The New Testament". And most importantly, you, as a believing Christian support these wars, so therefore we have in you, an example that this is a war that Christians believe in. Now I'm aware not all Christians believe in these wars, as some of them know they clearly contradict the teachings of Christ (pbuh), but you support them, and it's only you I'm asking to justify it.

I don't think turning the other cheek means failing to defend the innocent. A good shepherd does not stand idly by while the wolves devour his flock.

freediver enters the fray.

Perhaps you'd like to articulate for us then exactly what turn the other cheek means? Please also provide some quotes from the Bible that bolster your position that cheek turning is a very limited response to only certain specific forms of violence.

I'm not a theologian and I don't have any quotes from the Bible for you. I'm just trying to apply a bit of common sense. To me, it would come down to motive. If you are motivated by bitterness and vengence, you will act in subtly different ways to if you are motivated by a desire to protect the innocent. Over time these subtle differences will have a huge impact on how things play out. If two groups of people constantly try to get revenge on each other, violence will spiral out of control. On the other hand if they seek to prevent harm to innocent people, they are more likely to let bygones be bygones. History is full of this sort of thing, from the Hatfields and the McCoys to the Israelis and the Palestinians. While they have bitterness in their hearts and vengeance on their minds, they will seek justification for whatever evil intentions they have. Like Malik insisting that the Israelis shoot at children in schools for sport.

It is better to let ten guilty men go free than to hang an innocent man.

My first answer said why I agree with both wars.
Give democracy, help protect ourselves, provide world security and quash terrorism.

Turning the other cheek does not mean just rolling over and saying "you can do whatever you want to me" to anyone.



I'ld pretty much agree with your comments :  "I was under the impression that Christianity is a relationship with a personal living God, and that you receive the Holy Spirit into your soul and this is what causes you to behave and act and believe and feel in a manner that conforms to the teachings of Christ?"

For me, what makes me want to be more like Jesus is recognising my own flaws within myself.  
The Holy Spirit gives me a good helping hand.
In the end, it is my choice and decision.