According to the SMH. there is still a lingering culture of anti-intellectualism in Australia. Our levels of education are lower than in other countries. John Howard and the federal coalition are fuelling this sentiment, or at least taking advantage of it, especially in education reform (the 'history wars'). The Labor party also has a negative view of academics.

One of my relatives teaches a foreign language in a small town. A lot of the parents tell their children that it's OK not to bother with that class because they are never going to use it anyway. But the world is getter smaller very quickly.

When issues like science and politics cross, there is often strong antagonism towards input from scientists. I have seen this a lot in the marine park debate from fishing lobbies.

I'm trying out the poll feature with this thread.

Just testing.   You have to wonder why our children are getting such a poor level of education.  Perhaps there's an ultimate plan for them.  If they're dumbed down enough, by the time they leave school, they'll be ready to enlist.  This will be particularly good for  Australia as we have 30 plus US/Australian army bases here already testing out the latest hardware.  

The baby bonus is encouraging even more births and most of these children will have a state education.  The less they learn at school, the easier the brainwashing will be.  It's sad - but yes I think our culture may very well be "anti-intellectual" - aside from the hardworking immigrants who are instilling the importance of a higher education standard into their children.

When I was in high school I wasn't sure whether I wanted to go straight onto Uni or start earning money. Then at the end of grade 11 I spent a QLD summer picking water melons, which pretty much made my mind up for me. There's nothing like poverty or hard work  to make people value an education. I've noticed it too how children of recent immigrants tend to put more effort into school. I guess we need to impart some more Australian Values onto them so they stop making us look dumb.

Mantra, the baby bonus isn't encouraging more births. Would $4000 (or whatever it is at the moment) make you decide to have a baby? Or another one? It costs that much just in setting up for a baby, let alone the continued cost of raising it. Plus what it does to your life (freedom, health). It's a coincidence that there are more births, because it's the baby boomers kids now having kids. Ie there are just more people around, so when they have kids there's a greater number of births.

Freediver, when I was in school there was quite a culture of hiding it if you were smart. I always talked down when I was around the dumb kids. And I used to have to keep my mouth shut when they moaned about how bad they did on tests, when I found them easy. But there were programs being put in place to try to encourage and foster those who had talents and interests.

It's funny, with all this talk of a baby boom I can't find a nice graph of our fertility rate anywhere. I did find a table of births per 1000 people, which indicates our birth rate is actually going down:

Crude Birth and Death Rates for Selected Countries
(per 1,000 population)
 Birth rate                                                          Death rate  
Country  2006 2005 2004 1990  1985  1980  1975  2006 2005 2004 1990  1985  1980  1975
Australia  12.1 12.3 12.4 15.4  15.7  15.3  16.9         7.5 7.4 7.4 7.0  7.5  7.4  7.9

source:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004395.html

mmadeline - I was probably generalising - but basically talking about the lower socio economic sector of our society, where $4,000 is a reasonable amount of money.  There are so many teenaged girls with babies - going it alone.

What future do a lot of these children have when the mother grows up a little and realises she can't give her child as much because of her limited education?  This is going on all over Australia and these children are growing up disadvantaged.

In regard to dumbing down kids - just recently there was a survey conducted and it was found that 1 in 4 children do exactly what you did A - pretend to be less intelligent than they really are to fit in.

Sadly there are few opportunities to encourage these brighter children to seek greener pastures.  Once they're integrated for a decade with those of lesser intelligence - their self esteem deteriorates quite dramatically.

Dang ... I responded to that and I'm not an Ozzie ...  :-?

Do you think that'll seriously skew your results, FD?  

PS: It's me, Uno ... I forgot my username and/or password.  I'm having it re-sent to me ...  otherwise, can you help?  

You mean you voted? Don't worry about it. As for your password, I think you just have to click whatever button and wait for it to get sent to the email you registered with.

What many don't realise is that our Public Education System (run by the left and ignored by the right) is not just dumbing down students, they are actively cutting down and silencing outspoken lower and middle class intellectuals.   They are manipulating scores.

The system is trying to groom and produce robots that don't question or challenge the status quo, those that dont conform are put in their place.  

The message is loud and clear.   If you speak out,  you will suffer.    

mmadeline wrote on Dec 1^st, 2006 at 3:52pm:

And I used to have to keep my mouth shut when they moaned about how bad they did on tests, when I found them easy.

I always liked to explain to them why it was so easy. I'm sure they appreciated the chance to learn from their mistakes  :P

Yes Australia is a paranoid derivative culture perched on a large but blighted, infertile and dried-up island off the coast of Asia. For the first century or so it was difficult enough just to stay alive.

Given the tremendous amount of work that had to be done to create a modern western civilisation here on this unrewarding land it is no wonder that the Australian people were all body and no brain.

The free settlers were devoted Empire loyalists who wanted a new start in life: why else would they come all this way when the US was so much closer and cheaper? Many Indian Army pukka-sahibs chose to retire here, Colonel Blimps to a man.

The lower orders were not noted for their intellectual pursuits either. At the beginning they were resentful convicts, many of them Catholics whose only contact with intellectual life were the clergy--"Godbotherers" as they were derisively known--whom they despised.

Despite resentment against pommy bastards we clung to mother England long after she ceased to be a world power. As late as the 1960's we were voting the Queen's Man Sir Robert Menzies into the Prime Ministership. When England's decreptitude could no longer be hidden we tranferred our alliegence with scarcely a blink of the eye to the United States. This same Menzies dispatched Diggers to the all-American Vietnam War.

This pathetic clinging to the Great White Powers of the northern hemisphere further stulified our intellectual life. All that was good and glorious came from overseas and it still is. Anyone who wanted to read a book or glance at a picture was satisfied with something from the Old Country or a cheap local copy of the same. Australia was little more than half a century old when the telegraph and the steam boat put Australia back in intimate touch with England. The sudden blare of "Rule Brittania" drowned out the feeble strains of "Waltzing Matilda".

The effects of this have been long lasting. Australia has yet to produce a first-rate intellectual or artist although Patrick White and Pro-Hart are at least 3rd rate. Compare this to the number of excellent sportsmen we have fielded and the contrast becomes even more remarkable. Australia is and always has been deficient in cultural nationalism and will probably remain so unless some great historical drama makes us value ourselves a lot more than we do.

I voted NO because we are not anti intellectuals we are anti achievers.

How times change.
Labouring in Sydney pays way more than being a Clerk, even an IT white collar.
It's hard to get decent Labourers in Sydney. Most are mature or backpackers on working visas.

A bricky-labourer can make $500-$800 in a day.
While a bludger-labourer is busy tapping his phone - wishing he was smart like computers.

IT and other such jobs are 'common' and sought by many.
No-one wants to build themselves up and get paid for it on a worksite. Instead - they just gymbob it before or after their office job.

Playing dumb is the way to $$ in Australia.
My brethren in Africa are more the Engineer type (Surgeon) while my brethren in Oceania are more Academic (Doctor)
my brethren in South America are Clerical, while I'm Labourer here in Sahul.
Know you place  ;)

I'm much older now. But I still do the 'simple' jobs and now I get paid well to snip a few roses or walk a dog or other 'leisurely labours'  ;)

The Lefties reflect this.

"Are we anti-intellectuals?"



A nation, who in this generation,      ....most of its populace, reject objective truth,
when the application of that truth in their personal lives does not 'serve them' ?


Hmmmmm.

That is a difficult one, isn't it !! ?

/sarc off




And Australia is no 'Robinson Crusoe' either !






Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!


2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Quote:

Are we anti-intellectuals?

Probably.

And, like everything else, I'm sure it has gotten worse in the 13 years since freediver started this thread. ::)

---

Of course we are.

But BH I always thought you were a highly gifted intellectual.

Carl D wrote on Nov 5^th, 2019 at 11:01am:

Quote: Are we anti-intellectuals? Probably. And, like everything else, I'm sure it has gotten worse in the 13 years since freediver started this thread. ::)

It's like a memory.
Some people just forget.  ;)

13 years on from the start of this topic, I believe that Australians have an apathetic attitude. I am sure that we are smart enough on average to be world leaders. But our attitude towards being the best is what keeps us middle of the road in terms of educational attainment. And when I say "educational attainment", I am talking about reading up on useful academic topics, or getting cultured, etc.

Going to the movies and watching a blockbuster movie is one thing. But being able to interpret what the director was trying to achieve/portray is something different. Last night, I watched "Raiders of the Lost Ark". I saw it as a nonsensical movie, the first few times I watched it. But, I had another look at it last night and found it to be more intellectually stimulating. Thinking about it in terms of the protagonists with good intentions vs the antagonists with evil intentions. Those with power trying to attain more power. Whereas those without power trying to respect the value of tradition.

Or we look at how some people might watch the Bathurst race as being a who has the fastest driver and car. Others might see it as the technical side where slipstreaming and tactics come into play.

Sports like rugby as who was stronger on the day. Whereas other people see the sport as who was fit and healthy for the day and who had the better tactics leading into the game.

Intellectuals are the people who actually "get it" more than the basics of what other people see.

We are becoming more intellectuals as Australians. Not less.

UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 18^th, 2019 at 6:47pm:

13 years on from the start of this topic, I believe that Australians have an apathetic attitude. I am sure that we are smart enough on average to be world leaders. But our attitude towards being the best is what keeps us middle of the road in terms of educational attainment. And when I say "educational attainment", I am talking about reading up on useful academic topics, or getting cultured, etc. Going to the movies and watching a blockbuster movie is one thing. But being able to interpret what the director was trying to achieve/portray is something different. Last night, I watched "Raiders of the Lost Ark". I saw it as a nonsensical movie, the first few times I watched it. But, I had another look at it last night and found it to be more intellectually stimulating. Thinking about it in terms of the protagonists with good intentions vs the antagonists with evil intentions. Those with power trying to attain more power. Whereas those without power trying to respect the value of tradition. Or we look at how some people might watch the Bathurst race as being a who has the fastest driver and car. Others might see it as the technical side where slipstreaming and tactics come into play. Sports like rugby as who was stronger on the day. Whereas other people see the sport as who was fit and healthy for the day and who had the better tactics leading into the game. Intellectuals are the people who actually "get it" more than the basics of what other people see. We are becoming more intellectuals as Australians. Not less.

All of Speiberg's  movies have a Jewish slant. Even Lucas  did they same thing with the Star Wars movies. It's all to do with resentment due to the Holocaust and what is happening in Israel. And a bit of gentile bashing thrown in for spice. That's the key to understanding all of his movies. Check out the Arab blowfly in one of the later Star Wars movies.

Spielberg's movie "Schindler's List" actually put me on the path to downgrading the credibility of 6 million Jews dying in the Holocaust. I certainly believe that a lot of Jews died in the Nazi era. But, not 6 million. It is those sorts of things that have me question the previously unquestionable historical allegations.

UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 18^th, 2019 at 7:35pm:

Spielberg's movie "Schindler's List" actually put me on the path to downgrading the credibility of 6 million Jews dying in the Holocaust. I certainly believe that a lot of Jews died in the Nazi era. But, not 6 million. It is those sorts of things that have me question the previously unquestionable historical allegations.

Most people can't see these things in his movies Rocky. People really need to start thinking.

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 1:16pm:

According to the SMH. there is still a lingering culture of anti-intellectualism in Australia. Our levels of education are lower than in other countries. John Howard and the federal coalition are fuelling this sentiment, or at least taking advantage of it, especially in education reform (the 'history wars'). The Labor party also has a negative view of academics. One of my relatives teaches a foreign language in a small town. A lot of the parents tell their children that it's OK not to bother with that class because they are never going to use it anyway. But the world is getter smaller very quickly. When issues like science and politics cross, there is often strong antagonism towards input from scientists. I have seen this a lot in the marine park debate from fishing lobbies. I'm trying out the poll feature with this thread.

They should be teaching Mandarin as china already owns Australia and will need plenty of rickshaw drivers to drive the wealthy chinese tourists around.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/ceo-basket-case-education-system-to-blame-for-completely-cactus-australian-economy/news-story/ee3cbb5b8769051e0fd9697efcc81fb5


Quote:

CEO: ‘Basket case’ education system to blame for ‘completely cactus’ Australian economy A provocative multi-millionaire has labelled Australia’s economy as “completely cactus” and he says one industry is to blame. Provocative chief executive Matt Barrie says Australia’s education system is a “basket case” and is the main contributor to the country’s “completely cactus” economy. The tech entrepreneur and multi-millionaire blames the deterioration of Australian manufacturing output on what he calls an ancient education system where overachieving students are pushed into medicine and law while participation in electrical engineering and computer science dwindles. “That’s why there’s no productivity because we’re producing people to serve cups of coffee and serve avocado on toast to each other,” Mr Barrie said. Gross domestic product grew by just 0.5 per cent in the June quarter, dragging year-on-year growth to 1.4 per cent as Australians struggle with stagnant wage growth and a crippling debt-to-income ratio. Mr Barrie, boss of ASX-listed freelancing marketplace Freelancer.com, says the fastest way to turn this around is to encourage youngsters to be leaders in more practical, high-skilled industries. “If you get enough people into the right jobs, then four years later they go into the workforce, they get high-paying jobs, they start companies, they create income tax, and benefits flow from that,” he told news.com.au at a Yahoo Finance conference recently. “Plus they also increase the skills level because when they start these companies, they train all the employees they hire.” The entrepreneur said year 10 students needed access to pathways to jobs with a greater ability to stimulate the economy. “We’ve created this insane leaderboard in the HSC, which is basically medicine and law; they’re the best subjects. “Everything else doesn’t really matter and every parent, every teacher and then every kid thinks, ‘I’ve got to do medicine or law’. “We don’t need any more lawyers in the world. There are plenty of other jobs that are far more important to the economy right now. “We’ve got to fix the secondary school system, which is an 18th century relic training people for jobs that don’t exist.” Mr Barrie told news.com.au a more productive population would bump-up wage growth. “If you’re going to have high wages you need to be high value producing in the value chain. You can’t be serving people a couple of cups of coffee and expect high wages. “You’ve got to be doing advanced manufacturing like robotics or sophisticated products and services with a high margin. “And that’s what we’ve let fall apart. We need to have very sophisticated trade schools in the country so people can learn advanced skills, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering in order to produce these products and services and infrastructure. “We don’t do that. It’s basically you’re a doctor or you’re a lawyer, otherwise you’re a failure and that’s pretty much it.” Shadow minister for innovation, technology and the future of work, Clare O’Neil, agreed improving the education sector was the best way to correcting Australia’s anaemic economy. She told the same finance conference that federal funding wasn’t translating to better results. “We haven’t had a really good conversation in Canberra about why, even though we’re spending more money on schools all the time. Our performance is pretty static or in some instances declining,” Ms O’Neil said. “Wherever I go around Australia there’s a big disconnect between that pointy end of the education system and the needs of business. “And it just amazes me that after knowing that’s been a problem, for probably 40 years, we haven’t found a solution.” Mr Barrie said Australian skills had fallen behind because of the inaction of politicians and uninspired workers within the sector. “It’s a complete basket case because education is the remit of state governments and you’ve got a lot of teachers who are frightened of technology because their job is threatened,” the entrepreneur said. “It’s the teachers that are holding things back, and because it’s all controlled by the state governments you have all this duplication, bureaucracy, glacial movement of the system and all these entrenched people in positions that you just need to reinvent it.” He said this had created fiscal issues for a country too reliant on commodity exports and a bloated housing market. “The Australian economy is completely cactus,” Mr Barrie told news.com.au. “We’ve let manufacturing completely fall apart and we’re just deluding ourselves thinking we’re a wealthy country just because we’ve got inflated house prices and because we’ve got an immigration program to prop up tax receipts and prop up the housing market. “It’s going to end in tears — households are already at capacity in terms of their ability to pay rent and buy houses.”

UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 18^th, 2019 at 6:47pm:

13 years on from the start of this topic, I believe that Australians have an apathetic attitude. I am sure that we are smart enough on average to be world leaders. But our attitude towards being the best is what keeps us middle of the road in terms of educational attainment. And when I say "educational attainment", I am talking about reading up on useful academic topics, or getting cultured, etc. Going to the movies and watching a blockbuster movie is one thing. But being able to interpret what the director was trying to achieve/portray is something different. Last night, I watched "Raiders of the Lost Ark". I saw it as a nonsensical movie, the first few times I watched it. But, I had another look at it last night and found it to be more intellectually stimulating. Thinking about it in terms of the protagonists with good intentions vs the antagonists with evil intentions. Those with power trying to attain more power. Whereas those without power trying to respect the value of tradition. Or we look at how some people might watch the Bathurst race as being a who has the fastest driver and car. Others might see it as the technical side where slipstreaming and tactics come into play. Sports like rugby as who was stronger on the day. Whereas other people see the sport as who was fit and healthy for the day and who had the better tactics leading into the game. Intellectuals are the people who actually "get it" more than the basics of what other people see. We are becoming more intellectuals as Australians. Not less.

"Who need book learning when we've got Indiana Jones and V8's."

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 1:16pm:

According to the SMH.

Didn't  read past that. No need to.

The Silly Morning Herald and the Pravda on the Yarra are the Australian wannabe Granuiads. Jokes.

Robot wrote on Nov 21^st, 2019 at 8:50pm:

"Who need book learning when we've got Indiana Jones and V8's."

I think you missed the point referencing the contrasting of people's thought patterns.

UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2019 at 10:42am:

Robot wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 8:50pm: "Who need book learning when we've got Indiana Jones and V8's." I think you missed the point referencing the contrasting of people's thought patterns.

Yes Robot certainly did miss the point

Let's look at it again, you worded it quite well Unsub

"Thinking about it in terms of the protagonists with good intentions vs the antagonists with evil intentions. Those with power trying to attain more power. Whereas those without power trying to respect the value of tradition."

Of course this applies to any action movie, but it also applies to politics and communities in real life

The sad thing is we restrict ourselves to the thoughts of Lib Lab "Chairman Mao" - all we lack is little red books. We are encouraged not to be anything other than compliant serfs within a political feudal system. There is a bit of Pol Pot in the major parties

The best thing I ever did was break free of that immoral self serving paradigm and become an independent thinker on all subjects, including psychology, which we ought to continually explore, not just stop at a certain point and say that's all we need

UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2019 at 10:42am:

Robot wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 8:50pm: "Who need book learning when we've got Indiana Jones and V8's." I think you missed the point referencing the contrasting of people's thought patterns.

No, I got it: The point was that Australians don't respect intellectualism, which you then demonstrated by arguing that watching action movies and auto racing can be intellectual pursuits.

One of my hobbies over the last year has been watching the Olympics. The dullards would see the games about people competing against each other. Whereas the intellectuals would see the games as a matter of outwitting the opponents.

If you can't see the technical details of the motor racing, you probably are part of the dullard club that likes the "vroom-vroom" sound the cars make. It comes down to who has the best tactics, the most efficient cars, who can win in the final corner or outpace the others by a long way. The movie "Ford vs Ferrari" does touch on this aspect.

And if you are just staring at a television screen to watch a movie and not get some kind of incentive to formulate your own movie world, you are probably part of the dullards who follow any trend blindly.

"okay boomer" is anti-intellectual. Dullards would consider "okay boomer" a suave, profound retort.